Iran Hawks and the Persistent "Martyr State" Lie

[JoeBags7277 734]

"This is a lunatic thing to say about any nation, and it is a measure of how warped and biased our Iran debate is that presidential candidates can make assertions like this about another nation without causing an uproar. No government exists or has ever existed that didn’t “care” whether it was destroyed or not, and no people has ever been indifferent to its own annihilation. To believe this ridiculous claim, one has to view Iranians as something less than fully human."

Many warvangelicals clearly hold that view.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/iran-hawks-and-the-persistent-martyr-state-lie/

[AURaptor 1,121]

Not a nation, just it's zealous leaders

[cooltigger21 0]

"This is a lunatic thing to say about any nation and it is a measure of how warped and biased our Iran debate is that presidential candidates can make assertions like this about another nation without causing an uproar. No government exists or has ever existed that didn’t “care” whether it was destroyed or not, and no people has ever been indifferent to its own annihilation. To believe this ridiculous claim, one has to view Iranians as something less than fully human."

Many warvangelicals clearly hold that view.

http://www.theameric...rtyr-state-lie/

One thing you fail to take into account is the belief by some in Iran that all this will lead to the reappearance of the twelfth Imam. So yes to some they seem to actually want that.

[autigeremt 6,569]

Believing Iran is only looking for peaceful nuclear power is very dangerous....however we (the US) no longer have the stomach, will, or manpower to do anything about it.

It Is Done......

[homersapien 11,352]

Believing Iran is only looking for peaceful nuclear power is very dangerous....however we (the US) no longer have the stomach, will, or manpower to do anything about it.

It Is Done......

So I take it you oppose the agreement just reached which prevents them from building a weapon?

[quietfan 233]

"This is a lunatic thing to say about any nation, and it is a measure of how warped and biased our Iran debate is that presidential candidates can make assertions like this about another nation without causing an uproar. No government exists or has ever existed that didn’t “care” whether it was destroyed or not, and no people has ever been indifferent to its own annihilation. To believe this ridiculous claim, one has to view Iranians as something less than fully human."

Many warvangelicals clearly hold that view.

http://www.theameric...rtyr-state-lie/

Thanks! Appreciate the article, nice to read a voice of reason amidst the din of unjustified hysteria and hyperbole.

[MDM4AU 329]

and journalists should be holding these candidates accountable for these falsehoods.

Pffft... there are very few journalists these days. Mostly just fanboys with press credentials.

[AURaptor 1,121]

Believing Iran is only looking for peaceful nuclear power is very dangerous....however we (the US) no longer have the stomach, will, or manpower to do anything about it.

It Is Done......

So I take it you oppose the agreement just reached which prevents them from building a weapon?

Oh, you're NOT kidding ???

[autigeremt 6,569]

Believing Iran is only looking for peaceful nuclear power is very dangerous....however we (the US) no longer have the stomach, will, or manpower to do anything about it.

It Is Done......

So I take it you oppose the agreement just reached which prevents them from building a weapon?

It doesn't matter....read between the lines, homie! They WILL have a weapon agreement or not! We won't/can't stop it now.

[cooltigger21 0]

Believing Iran is only looking for peaceful nuclear power is very dangerous....however we (the US) no longer have the stomach, will, or manpower to do anything about it.

It Is Done......

So I take it you oppose the agreement just reached which prevents them from building a weapon?

You actually believe they will abide by that? Even if they magically do abide by it, the thing exposes in 10 or so years and then all bets are off. This agreement leaves them on the threshold of actual weapons. If they violate it who is going to do anything about it? Barry has promised to defend their sites against any attack by someone else like Israel. This agreement guaranteed them nukes. The only question is when do they actually get. them. This agreement has holes big enough to drive a whole fleet of semi trucks through it.

[homersapien 11,352]

Believing Iran is only looking for peaceful nuclear power is very dangerous....however we (the US) no longer have the stomach, will, or manpower to do anything about it.

It Is Done......

So I take it you oppose the agreement just reached which prevents them from building a weapon?

Oh, you're NOT kidding ???

Are you saying the agreement allows them to develop a weapon?

[homersapien 11,352]

Believing Iran is only looking for peaceful nuclear power is very dangerous....however we (the US) no longer have the stomach, will, or manpower to do anything about it.

It Is Done......

So I take it you oppose the agreement just reached which prevents them from building a weapon?

It doesn't matter....read between the lines, homie! They WILL have a weapon agreement or not! We won't/can't stop it now.

No, they won't have a weapon for at least a decade or longer.

Whereas, without the agreement they could have one in what, a year or so?

I just don't see the downside here.

At worst, they will somehow violate the agreement, in which case they turn themselves into an outlaw pariah state that justifies any action taken against them in the eyes of the world.

[homersapien 11,352]

Believing Iran is only looking for peaceful nuclear power is very dangerous....however we (the US) no longer have the stomach, will, or manpower to do anything about it.

It Is Done......

So I take it you oppose the agreement just reached which prevents them from building a weapon?

You actually believe they will abide by that? Even if they magically do abide by it, the thing exposes in 10 or so years and then all bets are off. This agreement leaves them on the threshold of actual weapons. If they violate it who is going to do anything about it? Barry has promised to defend their sites against any attack by someone else like Israel. This agreement guaranteed them nukes. The only question is when do they actually get. them. This agreement has holes big enough to drive a whole fleet of semi trucks through it.

They are at the threshold of actual weapons with or without the agreement. There is nothing about the agreement that helps speed their weapons effort and plenty that stalls it.

As far as your analysis of the "holes" in the agreement, no offense but I'll listen to the people who have a clue as to what they are talking about instead of someone simply ranting the party line.

[quietfan 233]

You actually believe they will abide by that? Even if they magically do abide by it, the thing exposes [expires?] in 10 or so years and then all bets are off.

Uh...if there is no agreement...then all bets are off as of today! No agreement, screw sanctions (previous and in place): If they want a bomb, they will build a bomb! The only way to deny them for sure is military action, and in the hypothetical case that it came to such, do you have 100% confidence in either the US's or Israel's resolve to go that far? Or succeed? Or to have the capability and/or commitment and resources to produce regime change, since it would pretty much come down to that in the case of war? (I suppose it's possible, military-wise, that a geographically united, Afghanistan-to-Syria, front against insurgents and extremists could have some strategic/tactical value, I'm no expert.)

At worst, the agreement gives us a bomb in 10-12 years. At worst, the alternative gives us a bomb, a war, or both much sooner.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Any one who believes this is a good deal for the U.S. and will prevent Iran from getting a nuke has his head where the sun don't shine. Even Kerry admitted today he hasn't seem some of Iran's conditions on inspection. Unbelievable.

[homersapien 11,352]

Any one who believes this is a good deal for the U.S. and will prevent Iran from getting a nuke has his head where the sun don't shine. Even Kerry admitted today he hasn't seem some of Iran's conditions on inspection. Unbelievable.

I don't see an actual argument in that.

[AURaptor 1,121]

Any one who believes this is a good deal for the U.S. and will prevent Iran from getting a nuke has his head where the sun don't shine. Even Kerry admitted today he hasn't seem some of Iran's conditions on inspection. Unbelievable.

I don't see an actual argument in that.

Of course you don't.

Meanwhile , this is just more of the same. No way could the Mullahs be this insane. Therefore, they're not, and the 'crazy' ones are those who come up w/ this stuff, like Huckabee and Bibi.

[quietfan 233]

Any one who believes this is a good deal for the U.S. and will prevent Iran from getting a nuke has his head where the sun don't shine. Even Kerry admitted today he hasn't seem some of Iran's conditions on inspection. Unbelievable.

I'm comfortable that Kerry trusts the inspection experts on his staff to advise him on those details. I don't expect him to be an expert on all the technical details; he's not nuclear-engineering-trained Jimmy Carter.

But from wherever my head is located, I respect your right to feel differently.

[JoeBags7277 734]

Any one who believes this is a good deal for the U.S. and will prevent Iran from getting a nuke has his head where the sun don't shine. Even Kerry admitted today he hasn't seem some of Iran's conditions on inspection. Unbelievable.

I don't see an actual argument in that.

Of course you don't.

Meanwhile , this is just more of the same. No way could the Mullahs be this insane. Therefore, they're not, and the 'crazy' ones are those who come up w/ this stuff, like Huckabee and Bibi.

Well, the Huckster did make a detestable, kind of ... crazy... statement accusing Obama of leading the Israelis to the oven, and Bibi has been dead wrong about his magic timetables for longer than I've been alive, yet he still sticks to them. Kinda sounds crazy to me.

[AURaptor 1,121]

Detestable is the deal which puts Iran & this leadership on the path to a nuke bomb.

[autigeremt 6,569]

Believing Iran is only looking for peaceful nuclear power is very dangerous....however we (the US) no longer have the stomach, will, or manpower to do anything about it.

It Is Done......

So I take it you oppose the agreement just reached which prevents them from building a weapon?

It doesn't matter....read between the lines, homie! They WILL have a weapon agreement or not! We won't/can't stop it now.

No, they won't have a weapon for at least a decade or longer.

Whereas, without the agreement they could have one in what, a year or so?

I just don't see the downside here.

At worst, they will somehow violate the agreement, in which case they turn themselves into an outlaw pariah state that justifies any action taken against them in the eyes of the world.

[homersapien 11,352]

Any one who believes this is a good deal for the U.S. and will prevent Iran from getting a nuke has his head where the sun don't shine. Even Kerry admitted today he hasn't seem some of Iran's conditions on inspection. Unbelievable.

I don't see an actual argument in that.

Of course you don't.

Meanwhile , this is just more of the same. No way could the Mullahs be this insane. Therefore, they're not, and the 'crazy' ones are those who come up w/ this stuff, like Huckabee and Bibi.

Don't see one there either.

[homersapien 11,352]

Detestable is the deal which puts Iran & this leadership on the path to a nuke bomb.

They were already on the path. This deal puts a halt to their proceeding down that path, even if just temporary.

[homersapien 11,352]

Believing Iran is only looking for peaceful nuclear power is very dangerous....however we (the US) no longer have the stomach, will, or manpower to do anything about it.

It Is Done......

So I take it you oppose the agreement just reached which prevents them from building a weapon?

It doesn't matter....read between the lines, homie! They WILL have a weapon agreement or not! We won't/can't stop it now.

No, they won't have a weapon for at least a decade or longer.

Whereas, without the agreement they could have one in what, a year or so?

I just don't see the downside here.

At worst, they will somehow violate the agreement, in which case they turn themselves into an outlaw pariah state that justifies any action taken against them in the eyes of the world.

Et tu emt? :-\

I'll take that as an admission that you can't think of a single counter argument to what I wrote.

[AURaptor 1,121]

homer - you're wrong

& deluded.

It's just that simple.