AURealist 2,185 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 While you say Johnson proves Gus knows how to coach QBs, what it really proves he has been able to mold cornerbacks and unknown QBs to be effective in his offensive schemes - schemes that have been less dependent upon traditional QB skills. Molding a player to be effective in an offensive scheme is the definition of good coaching. Also, . They were pro-style QBs, not zone-read like we've had at Auburn, so they completely depended on traditional QB skills. You don't get 4000+ yards in the air running the ball, after all. For a "realist" you need to get a better grip on reality. Yeah. Blah, blah 2008 blah blah... "...go watch some Tulsa film from 2007-2008" Go watch JJ from HS and the last two weeks. As I stated before in a slightly different manner: We'll see what two years work with a hand-chosen protege gets AU on Saturday. I believe that game - against a decent SEC team, in addition to the play of past two weeks, will be a much more representative and by far a much more current data set on which to measure current effectiveness of Auburn QB training. If the QB play is markedly better, then I'll concede that Gus and Rhett are up to the task and will stop worrying about - and maybe even typing about - the QB coaching situation and might even stop questioning why Coach Craig isn't working with JJ. If not, then 2008 was still a very good year for small vineyard Oklahoma football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDUBB4AU 5,112 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I'm not gonna question Gus on qbs. He has a killer track record with past qbs. I'm afraid Johnsons biggest issue is him. He's got to regain confidence. He's an awesome talent and I know he has it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuburnSpider 2 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Not sure how much help they gave Cam. Think that's backward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipadeedoodah 24 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Gus has a fine track record with QBs, that being said if he says that JJ will be fine its probably true. He has more invested in this team than anyone here. That being said if some people were in charge we'd go through 8 head coaches and 27 QBs in 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Sanders 123 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Jeremy has to get to the point where he is confident in what he is doing. Right now, it seems as if he doesn't have confidence in reading his progressions during a real game setting. Confidence is not something you muster up mentally. It comes from being certain in what you are doing, which comes from repetition. And obviously he is not certain with his reads at the moment. Maybe he breaks through this weekend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripe 5 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Dude, Not a coaching problem. it's a mental problem in JJ's head. We all already know JJ can be a great QB, we have seen it out of him the last 2 years as a back up. The coaches can't do anything about whats going on in JJ's mind in the heat of the moment except hope JJ breaks through what ever block he has placed in his mind. Once JJ works through it, if he works through it, JJ will be what we expected out of him. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehighfan 1,240 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 From what I understand about Gus' offense, it's predicated on the QB being able to run. So far we haven't seen much from J.J. along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronau57 12 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 You can't teach guts and want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aucanucktiger 1,791 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 This has become one of the craziest threads ever on this board. Gus' phenomenal offensive numbers and results over a decade speaks for itself. If you have to hang your hand on something to diss the offensive mind of his generation - 2 games into a season - maybe Gus is delegating too much? Speculation. Back to the original thread question (a good one), G & R consistently talk about teaching standard receiver progression checkoff - Rhett said in his post-UL presser that the interceptions were to secondary targets (no pun intended) dispelling the theory that JJ was locking onto the first priority WR. Over the years I've read that both G & R are fanatical about teaching through QB repetitions with correct form, which ironically IMO made Nick less awesome overall because they wanted his pocket passing skills to improve so he became a thinker at the expense of not being 70% athlete/30% passer (which can work in college, not for long in the NFL). Let's talk again around Halloween because win or lose, I think we'll have some Gus-offense-bashers on this thread looking for a witness relocation program. Those seeing Will as not an IMMEDIATE answer to our hit or miss D, they may be on to something (give him time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaitopher 807 Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 This has become one of the craziest threads ever on this board. Gus' phenomenal offensive numbers and results over a decade speaks for itself. If you have to hang your hand on something to diss the offensive mind of his generation - 2 games into a season - maybe Gus is delegating too much? Speculation. Back to the original thread question (a good one), G & R consistently talk about teaching standard receiver progression checkoff - Rhett said in his post-UL presser that the interceptions were to secondary targets (no pun intended) dispelling the theory that JJ was locking onto the first priority WR. Over the years I've read that both G & R are fanatical about teaching through QB repetitions with correct form, which ironically IMO made Nick less awesome overall because they wanted his pocket passing skills to improve so he became a thinker at the expense of not being 70% athlete/30% passer (which can work in college, not for long in the NFL). Let's talk again around Halloween because win or lose, I think we'll have some Gus-offense-bashers on this thread looking for a witness relocation program. Those seeing Will as not an IMMEDIATE answer to our hit or miss D, they may be on to something (give him time). This has become one of the craziest threads ever on this board. Gus' phenomenal offensive numbers and results over a decade speaks for itself. If you have to hang your hand on something to diss the offensive mind of his generation - 2 games into a season - maybe Gus is delegating too much? Speculation. Back to the original thread question (a good one), G & R consistently talk about teaching standard receiver progression checkoff - Rhett said in his post-UL presser that the interceptions were to secondary targets (no pun intended) dispelling the theory that JJ was locking onto the first priority WR. Over the years I've read that both G & R are fanatical about teaching through QB repetitions with correct form, which ironically IMO made Nick less awesome overall because they wanted his pocket passing skills to improve so he became a thinker at the expense of not being 70% athlete/30% passer (which can work in college, not for long in the NFL). Let's talk again around Halloween because win or lose, I think we'll have some Gus-offense-bashers on this thread looking for a witness relocation program. Those seeing Will as not an IMMEDIATE answer to our hit or miss D, they may be on to something (give him time). Great response. Thanks Canuck! BTW, my post wasn't intended to Bash Gus or Rhett. I truly wanted to know how they coach up their QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augrad68 165 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Wasn't Rhett coached by Gus in High school and also won some championships? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimesAU 89 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Has anyone here considered that Gus' offense could be a major factor in the success of QBs early in his career? A new offense with tons of motion and "eye candy" that put defenders on their heels and a step behind could really make a QB look impressive. I've already said that I think Cam and Nick succeeded( more so Cam than Nick bc Nick was never a proficient passer) due to their extraordinary athleticism and not their technical prowess. And to Altima, if Rhett is the only dead weight and Gus is a solid coach like you say then who does his hiring and retention fall on? Gus wanted a Yes Man and he got it...at our QBs expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigskinPat 2,579 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Gus has a fine track record with QBs, that being said if he says that JJ will be fine its probably true. He has more invested in this team than anyone here. That being said if some people were in charge we'd go through 8 head coaches and 27 QBs in 10 years. I would agree with you that he has a fine track record with QB's, but I think what others are asking is how he develops QB's that he has worked with over the course of several years. Nick Marshall was the 1st two year starter he's ever had. I think what other posters are wondering about is Gus' recruitment and development of QB's and unfortunately we don't have a large sample size to look at. Don't get me wrong, I have faith in Gus as much as anyone and that's why Jeremy's performance thus far has been such a shock to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuburnNTexas 7,140 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 As so many have said look at the total number of QB's their track record is fantastic. Chris Todd an injured QB still set single season records. Paul Smith2007 Conference USA Player of the year, Cam Newton enough said then Nick Marshall who was a DB and is now a DB in the Pro's ended up as a GREAT College QB by taking advantage of his athleticism and hiding his weaknesses. So JJ is only one that has not done better then expectation and they are still working with him. Maybe the light will come on and he will become great who knows. But they haven't all of a sudden forgotten how to coach a QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger 8,818 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I think Craig was brought on for his recruiting ability. It's unfortunate Gus has to keep Lashlee around because we have someone with big-time college QB coaching experience on the staff but he's coaching WRs. And he was a QB at a high level and took NFL snaps -- so his experience is something JJ can lean on (to be fair, it's not Lashlee's resume that holds him back, I think he's just not ready to be at this level yet). Also I would reallllly like if Gus took over 100% of the play calling. That gif from the UL game where Lashlee is saying "I didn't call that" is extremely disappointing as an AU and Gus fan. Play calls can look good or bad based on execution but Gus' track record is enough for me to be completely fine with Lashlee never calling another play at AU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipadeedoodah 24 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Gus has a fine track record with QBs, that being said if he says that JJ will be fine its probably true. He has more invested in this team than anyone here. That being said if some people were in charge we'd go through 8 head coaches and 27 QBs in 10 years. I would agree with you that he has a fine track record with QB's, but I think what others are asking is how he develops QB's that he has worked with over the course of several years. Nick Marshall was the 1st two year starter he's ever had. I think what other posters are wondering about is Gus' recruitment and development of QB's and unfortunately we don't have a large sample size to look at. Don't get me wrong, I have faith in Gus as much as anyone and that's why Jeremy's performance thus far has been such a shock to me. I can understand that some people are disappointed in the QB play so far. I'm sure everyone was curious to see how the first 2 year Malzahn QB was going to play. After 2 games there is a lot of room for improvement. However, as far as development goes, let's look at recent history to find QBs who were "elitely developed" in college. Here is a subjective list of elite QBs in the NFL. Brady, P. Manning, Brees, Rogers, Luck, Wilson, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Flacco, E. Manning. I'll leave off Newton because I really don't want to get into whether he was "Gus's QB" or not. So there is a list of 10 give or take a few. What do they have in common? Very intelligent Strong measurables (6'5, large hands) Experience Here's what they don't have in common. Their college coaches Oregon was notoriously weak at producing NFL QBs. Then along came Mariota and he seems to have overcome this quite fantastically. On the other hand, the closest Urban Meyer has come to developing an NFL ready QB was Tim Tebow. TIM. TEBOW. Yet you don't hear Ohio State fans complaining. Also, DC is a good coach but so far his QBs (Ponder, Manuel, Winston) have not panned out in the NFL either. In summary, College QB development doesn't really seem to factor much if at all into pro careers. either a QB has IT or he doesn't. So far JJ doesn't have IT, but that can still change. If you want a QB developer, beg Jacobs to bring back Loeffler. He did invent Tom Brady after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipadeedoodah 24 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I think Craig was brought on for his recruiting ability. It's unfortunate Gus has to keep Lashlee around because we have someone with big-time college QB coaching experience on the staff but he's coaching WRs. And he was a QB at a high level and took NFL snaps -- so his experience is something JJ can lean on (to be fair, it's not Lashlee's resume that holds him back, I think he's just not ready to be at this level yet). Also I would reallllly like if Gus took over 100% of the play calling. That gif from the UL game where Lashlee is saying "I didn't call that" is extremely disappointing as an AU and Gus fan. Play calls can look good or bad based on execution but Gus' track record is enough for me to be completely fine with Lashlee never calling another play at AU. A year after Lashlee coaches the 2nd most efficient offense in CFB, and 2 years removed from coaching the first SEC offense to ever lead the nation in rushing you want to push him out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger 8,818 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I think Craig was brought on for his recruiting ability. It's unfortunate Gus has to keep Lashlee around because we have someone with big-time college QB coaching experience on the staff but he's coaching WRs. And he was a QB at a high level and took NFL snaps -- so his experience is something JJ can lean on (to be fair, it's not Lashlee's resume that holds him back, I think he's just not ready to be at this level yet). Also I would reallllly like if Gus took over 100% of the play calling. That gif from the UL game where Lashlee is saying "I didn't call that" is extremely disappointing as an AU and Gus fan. Play calls can look good or bad based on execution but Gus' track record is enough for me to be completely fine with Lashlee never calling another play at AU. A year after Lashlee coaches the 2nd most efficient offense in CFB, and 2 years after coaching the first SEC offense to ever lead the nation in rushing you want to push him out? Maybe not push him out entirely, but IDK where else on staff he could coach. We have someone on staff that is better qualified to coach QBs IMO. And Lashlee's main job realistically is QB coach, not OC. We have seen limited development out of the QBs under his watch. Shoddy footwork and awful decision making have been staples of AU QBs in the past 2+ years. These are correctable and yet it either looks like he's not teaching these things or the kids aren't listening. As far as offensive production I think that is more based on Gus' ability and not Rhett's. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altima 200 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I think Craig was brought on for his recruiting ability. It's unfortunate Gus has to keep Lashlee around because we have someone with big-time college QB coaching experience on the staff but he's coaching WRs. And he was a QB at a high level and took NFL snaps -- so his experience is something JJ can lean on (to be fair, it's not Lashlee's resume that holds him back, I think he's just not ready to be at this level yet). Also I would reallllly like if Gus took over 100% of the play calling. That gif from the UL game where Lashlee is saying "I didn't call that" is extremely disappointing as an AU and Gus fan. Play calls can look good or bad based on execution but Gus' track record is enough for me to be completely fine with Lashlee never calling another play at AU. A year after Lashlee coaches the 2nd most efficient offense in CFB, and 2 years after coaching the first SEC offense to ever lead the nation in rushing you want to push him out? Again... Our past offensive success has NOTHING to do with Rhett Lashlee! Period! Gus is the mad scientist with the O! Lashlee is nothing more than a homeboy riding Gus' coattails! He can't recruit! He doesn't call plays! He is minimally involved in game prep! He has no repor with his players! So what exactly is his role, you ask??? I believe Gus has referred to him as "another set of eyes out there"... Meanwhile, Dameyune Craig is an accomplished QB coach! That's who should be developing our QB talent! So to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing Laslee 'pushed out'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger 8,818 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I think Craig was brought on for his recruiting ability. It's unfortunate Gus has to keep Lashlee around because we have someone with big-time college QB coaching experience on the staff but he's coaching WRs. And he was a QB at a high level and took NFL snaps -- so his experience is something JJ can lean on (to be fair, it's not Lashlee's resume that holds him back, I think he's just not ready to be at this level yet). Also I would reallllly like if Gus took over 100% of the play calling. That gif from the UL game where Lashlee is saying "I didn't call that" is extremely disappointing as an AU and Gus fan. Play calls can look good or bad based on execution but Gus' track record is enough for me to be completely fine with Lashlee never calling another play at AU. A year after Lashlee coaches the 2nd most efficient offense in CFB, and 2 years after coaching the first SEC offense to ever lead the nation in rushing you want to push him out? Again... Our past offensive success has NOTHING to do with Rhett Lashlee! Period! Gus is the mad scientist with the O! Lashlee is nothing more than a homeboy riding Gus' coattails! He can't recruit! He doesn't call plays! He is minimally involved in game prep! He has no repor with his players! So what exactly is his role, you ask??? I believe Gus has referred to him as "another set of eyes out there"... Meanwhile, Dameyune Craig is an accomplished QB coach! That's who should be developing our QB talent! So to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing Laslee 'pushed out'... I think Lashlee does call some plays though. Care to elaborate on the repor with players aspect though? I have never heard this so I am curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigskinPat 2,579 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Gus has a fine track record with QBs, that being said if he says that JJ will be fine its probably true. He has more invested in this team than anyone here. That being said if some people were in charge we'd go through 8 head coaches and 27 QBs in 10 years. I would agree with you that he has a fine track record with QB's, but I think what others are asking is how he develops QB's that he has worked with over the course of several years. Nick Marshall was the 1st two year starter he's ever had. I think what other posters are wondering about is Gus' recruitment and development of QB's and unfortunately we don't have a large sample size to look at. Don't get me wrong, I have faith in Gus as much as anyone and that's why Jeremy's performance thus far has been such a shock to me. I can understand that some people are disappointed in the QB play so far. I'm sure everyone was curious to see how the first 2 year Malzahn QB was going to play. After 2 games there is a lot of room for improvement. However, as far as development goes, let's look at recent history to find QBs who were "elitely developed" in college. Here is a subjective list of elite QBs in the NFL. Brady, P. Manning, Brees, Rogers, Luck, Wilson, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Flacco, E. Manning. I'll leave off Newton because I really don't want to get into whether he was "Gus's QB" or not. So there is a list of 10 give or take a few. What do they have in common? Very intelligent Strong measurables (6'5, large hands) Experience Here's what they don't have in common. Their college coaches Oregon was notoriously weak at producing NFL QBs. Then along came Mariota and he seems to have overcome this quite fantastically. On the other hand, the closest Urban Meyer has come to developing an NFL ready QB was Tim Tebow. TIM. TEBOW. Yet you don't hear Ohio State fans complaining. Also, DC is a good coach but so far his QBs (Ponder, Manuel, Winston) have not panned out in the NFL either. In summary, College QB development doesn't really seem to factor much if at all into pro careers. either a QB has IT or he doesn't. So far JJ doesn't have IT, but that can still change. If you want a QB developer, beg Jacobs to bring back Loeffler. He did invent Tom Brady after all. I think most on here would say they don't care about NFL success stories, they just want a QB that can produce at a high level within the system that Gus has recruited him for. Tim Tebow was the unquestioned leader of his team, would single handedly take over and win games, set all kinds of SEC records, was a part of two national championships, and won the Heisman. He excelled in the system Myer recruited him for and if we get that kind of production out of a QB I would be okay with it, even if he didn't excel at the next level. LOL Myer has just entered his 4th season at Ohio State with talent at the QB position that most schools only dream of having. Any one of the 3 he has could start at most, if not every school in the country. He is definitely showing an ability to recruit players for his system and have them perform at a high level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipadeedoodah 24 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I think Craig was brought on for his recruiting ability. It's unfortunate Gus has to keep Lashlee around because we have someone with big-time college QB coaching experience on the staff but he's coaching WRs. And he was a QB at a high level and took NFL snaps -- so his experience is something JJ can lean on (to be fair, it's not Lashlee's resume that holds him back, I think he's just not ready to be at this level yet). Also I would reallllly like if Gus took over 100% of the play calling. That gif from the UL game where Lashlee is saying "I didn't call that" is extremely disappointing as an AU and Gus fan. Play calls can look good or bad based on execution but Gus' track record is enough for me to be completely fine with Lashlee never calling another play at AU. A year after Lashlee coaches the 2nd most efficient offense in CFB, and 2 years after coaching the first SEC offense to ever lead the nation in rushing you want to push him out? Again... Our past offensive success has NOTHING to do with Rhett Lashlee! Period! Gus is the mad scientist with the O! Lashlee is nothing more than a homeboy riding Gus' coattails! He can't recruit! He doesn't call plays! He is minimally involved in game prep! He has no repor with his players! So what exactly is his role, you ask??? I believe Gus has referred to him as "another set of eyes out there"... Meanwhile, Dameyune Craig is an accomplished QB coach! That's who should be developing our QB talent! So to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing Laslee 'pushed out'... How does past success have nothing to do with it? Gus and Rhett have worked together to coach one of the best offenses in FBS the past 2 years. As far as developing QBs had you read my earlier post you would know how little college coaching affects QB success overall. Besides y'all want to blame Lashlee for JJ's 5 ints, yet Marshall threw 20 Ints in one year in JUCO. Then after being coached by Lashlee that number dropped drastically. Your evidence is very limited in order to make a blanket judgement like this. Now if you can provide more evidence than "JJ had a couple of bad games," then maybe more people will listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altima 200 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I think Craig was brought on for his recruiting ability. It's unfortunate Gus has to keep Lashlee around because we have someone with big-time college QB coaching experience on the staff but he's coaching WRs. And he was a QB at a high level and took NFL snaps -- so his experience is something JJ can lean on (to be fair, it's not Lashlee's resume that holds him back, I think he's just not ready to be at this level yet). Also I would reallllly like if Gus took over 100% of the play calling. That gif from the UL game where Lashlee is saying "I didn't call that" is extremely disappointing as an AU and Gus fan. Play calls can look good or bad based on execution but Gus' track record is enough for me to be completely fine with Lashlee never calling another play at AU. A year after Lashlee coaches the 2nd most efficient offense in CFB, and 2 years after coaching the first SEC offense to ever lead the nation in rushing you want to push him out? Again... Our past offensive success has NOTHING to do with Rhett Lashlee! Period! Gus is the mad scientist with the O! Lashlee is nothing more than a homeboy riding Gus' coattails! He can't recruit! He doesn't call plays! He is minimally involved in game prep! He has no repor with his players! So what exactly is his role, you ask??? I believe Gus has referred to him as "another set of eyes out there"... Meanwhile, Dameyune Craig is an accomplished QB coach! That's who should be developing our QB talent! So to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing Laslee 'pushed out'... I think Lashlee does call some plays though. Care to elaborate on the repor with players aspect though? I have never heard this so I am curious. Nothing bad... He's just not the one offensive players turn to. In my opinion, he just hasn't garnered the respect that a offensive coordinator should. That's all. I've been to practices in the past, and have seen Nick Marshall ask DC for pointers. It's just odd to me that a QB wouldn't turn to his QB coach for instruction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipadeedoodah 24 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 "I've been to practices in the past, and have seen Nick Marshall ask DC for pointers." You call this concrete evidence of Lashlee's incompetence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger 8,818 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Interesting. I'd rather the QBs goto Craig anyways to be honest haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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