ACA, Higher Deductibles, and Consumer Wages

[TitanTiger 20,471]

The ACA absolutely was NOT needed.

This specific way of doing things wasn't needed. But many of the things the ACA provided were needed.

There should not be a segment of the population deemed "uninsurable."

There shouldn't be lifetime caps on benefits.

We should find a way for everyone to have medical coverage (yes, I realize the ACA doesn't do that completely, but it covers far more people than the old system did).

People should not have to fret over an insurance company wriggling out of covering something because they deem it "pre-existing."

So, I agree to a limited extent. The ACA is a bad solution to a real problem. But, a country this prosperous should not have people in it that have no real health care coverage (being able to hit up an ER is not coverage). A country this prosperous should not have people live in fear that a change in job or one missed payment throws means they have no coverage for a long term or chronic illness. A country this prosperous should not have medical bills as the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy.

[autigeremt 6,569]

The ACA is a huge runaround to get to Single Payer. Lock, stock and barrel. I would prefer a true hybrid system (that I've explained multiple times) that allows for more freedom of choice and limits the governments involvement into the system but success wasn't the intended target so I'm just going to keep "hatin".....the people are the last to be served by this effed up govt.

[cooltigger21 0]

Ours (at AU) is going to go up come Jan. 1, 2016. Across the board and the coverage is going to be worse than what we have now.

Come 2017 or 2018, Single Payer will be rolled out as the savior.

That was the intended outcome from the start.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

The ACA is a huge runaround to get to Single Payer. Lock, stock and barrel. I would prefer a true hybrid system (that I've explained multiple times) that allows for more freedom of choice and limits the governments involvement into the system but success wasn't the intended target so I'm just going to keep "hatin".....the people are the last to be served by this effed up govt.

Here's the thing though...the ACA is very similar to a couple of plans conservatives proposed back in the early 90s as an alternative to Hillarycare. One was from the Heritage Foundation which was proposed the individual mandate for instance. So the ACA can't be both a plan to avoid single payer (Hillarycare) and a plan to get to single payer in the future.

What it is is a bastardized compromise plan that draws from the worst of both ideological arguments on healthcare. I would argue that either single payer OR some sort of wide open, nationwide free market type of plan, detached from employers and portable, would both be better than what we have.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

The ACA is a huge runaround to get to Single Payer. Lock, stock and barrel. I would prefer a true hybrid system (that I've explained multiple times) that allows for more freedom of choice and limits the governments involvement into the system but success wasn't the intended target so I'm just going to keep "hatin".....the people are the last to be served by this effed up govt.

Could just as easily be seen as a move to kill any form of socialized healthcare for another 25 years. It depends on the propaganda you are willing to digest.

I would like to see a single payer system that provides access to a basic level of healthcare for ALL Americans and, a private, parallel system for those who want, and can afford, "premium" healthcare services. Now, all you have to do is resolve what will surely be a partisan debate over what is considered "basic" and, what is considered "premium".

[channonc 466]

The ACA is a huge runaround to get to Single Payer. Lock, stock and barrel. I would prefer a true hybrid system (that I've explained multiple times) that allows for more freedom of choice and limits the governments involvement into the system but success wasn't the intended target so I'm just going to keep "hatin".....the people are the last to be served by this effed up govt.

Could just as easily be seen as a move to kill any form of socialized healthcare for another 25 years. It depends on the propaganda you are willing to digest.

I would like to see a single payer system that provides access to a basic level of healthcare for ALL Americans and, a private, parallel system for those who want, and can afford, "premium" healthcare services. Now, all you have to do is resolve what will surely be a partisan debate over what is considered "basic" and, what is considered "premium".

This would be precisely why I would likely object to such a system you describe above. Either we go all the way to single payer, or we take ACA a bit further and start regulating at the federal level, setting price ceilings on certain things (Rx for example), include things like dental and eye care, and get rid of the state monopolies on insurance. Set minimum standards for care and get employers out of coverage all together.

But adding layers for "those who can afford it" means that there will be little attention paid to the public "basic" system and we end up right back where we started. IMO. I'm still not fully on board with a single payer but see that it could certainly have its efficiencies.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

The ACA is a huge runaround to get to Single Payer. Lock, stock and barrel. I would prefer a true hybrid system (that I've explained multiple times) that allows for more freedom of choice and limits the governments involvement into the system but success wasn't the intended target so I'm just going to keep "hatin".....the people are the last to be served by this effed up govt.

Could just as easily be seen as a move to kill any form of socialized healthcare for another 25 years. It depends on the propaganda you are willing to digest.

I would like to see a single payer system that provides access to a basic level of healthcare for ALL Americans and, a private, parallel system for those who want, and can afford, "premium" healthcare services. Now, all you have to do is resolve what will surely be a partisan debate over what is considered "basic" and, what is considered "premium".

This would be precisely why I would likely object to such a system you describe above. Either we go all the way to single payer, or we take ACA a bit further and start regulating at the federal level, setting price ceilings on certain things (Rx for example), include things like dental and eye care, and get rid of the state monopolies on insurance. Set minimum standards for care and get employers out of coverage all together.

But adding layers for "those who can afford it" means that there will be little attention paid to the public "basic" system and we end up right back where we started. IMO. I'm still not fully on board with a single payer but see that it could certainly have its efficiencies.

I'm curious...as a Democrat, what is your objection to single-payer? I mean, I could recite the conservative objections to it in my sleep I've heard them so much. But I'd like to hear someone on the other side that has apprehension about it chime in.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

The ACA is a huge runaround to get to Single Payer. Lock, stock and barrel. I would prefer a true hybrid system (that I've explained multiple times) that allows for more freedom of choice and limits the governments involvement into the system but success wasn't the intended target so I'm just going to keep "hatin".....the people are the last to be served by this effed up govt.

Could just as easily be seen as a move to kill any form of socialized healthcare for another 25 years. It depends on the propaganda you are willing to digest.

I would like to see a single payer system that provides access to a basic level of healthcare for ALL Americans and, a private, parallel system for those who want, and can afford, "premium" healthcare services. Now, all you have to do is resolve what will surely be a partisan debate over what is considered "basic" and, what is considered "premium".

This would be precisely why I would likely object to such a system you describe above. Either we go all the way to single payer, or we take ACA a bit further and start regulating at the federal level, setting price ceilings on certain things (Rx for example), include things like dental and eye care, and get rid of the state monopolies on insurance. Set minimum standards for care and get employers out of coverage all together.

But adding layers for "those who can afford it" means that there will be little attention paid to the public "basic" system and we end up right back where we started. IMO. I'm still not fully on board with a single payer but see that it could certainly have its efficiencies.

In the idealistic sense, I agree. However, in the practical sense, I do not. I think we have to realize ALL of the implications of expanding the healthcare system to efficiently include everyone. In my opinion, we have to accept that, a somewhat lower level of basic care is much better than no care at all. And, that we cannot limit anyone by attempting to impose a "one size fits all" system.

I think some of the resistance to embracing our social conscience is a reflection of that conscience being overly idealistic and, lacking in practicality. I know, this is not exactly the political climate in which you can ask anyone to shape a liberal policy with a conservative approach. Funny how the definitions of "practical" and "realistic" could be so far apart in any context.

[channonc 466]

The ACA is a huge runaround to get to Single Payer. Lock, stock and barrel. I would prefer a true hybrid system (that I've explained multiple times) that allows for more freedom of choice and limits the governments involvement into the system but success wasn't the intended target so I'm just going to keep "hatin".....the people are the last to be served by this effed up govt.

Could just as easily be seen as a move to kill any form of socialized healthcare for another 25 years. It depends on the propaganda you are willing to digest.

I would like to see a single payer system that provides access to a basic level of healthcare for ALL Americans and, a private, parallel system for those who want, and can afford, "premium" healthcare services. Now, all you have to do is resolve what will surely be a partisan debate over what is considered "basic" and, what is considered "premium".

This would be precisely why I would likely object to such a system you describe above. Either we go all the way to single payer, or we take ACA a bit further and start regulating at the federal level, setting price ceilings on certain things (Rx for example), include things like dental and eye care, and get rid of the state monopolies on insurance. Set minimum standards for care and get employers out of coverage all together.

But adding layers for "those who can afford it" means that there will be little attention paid to the public "basic" system and we end up right back where we started. IMO. I'm still not fully on board with a single payer but see that it could certainly have its efficiencies.

I'm curious...as a Democrat, what is your objection to single-payer? I mean, I could recite the conservative objections to it in my sleep I've heard them so much. But I'd like to hear someone on the other side that has apprehension about it chime in.

I think my apprehension is really in implementation. I'm not opposed to the concept, per se. But I don't trust our lawmakers to just expand medicare, and negotiate fair payment schedules for routine care, surgeries and prescriptions. If it were a simple proposal like that, I might consider it. It's one of those things for me that the devil is always in the details. As ITCY pointed out, there are grey areas that I am not sure how those get addressed in a single payer system, for example, who determines what procedures are considered necessary? Does single payer also stifle innovation... for example, there is already a movement for GP physicians to drop insurance networks all together and move to subscription based services. But with your subscription, you get extra benefits, like seeing your doctor outside of business hours, phone consultations, web chats, etc. Not saying that I think we should move toward that being the norm for everyone, but what options like that work.

My biggest fear is one that I see already starting to happen with SS. Once you have single payer, you start moving to allow "those that can afford it" AKA the rich move off or beyond said system and then it just becomes viewed as a system for the poor (the way medicaid is already) and one that becomes a political football fighting for every dollar with no real government investment. On my radar, but probably less concerning, is a move for the government to provide the healthcare (think VA for all). Clearly we can't provide our VA's with the care they desperately need or deserve, I'm uninterested in expanding that type of system. But like I said, I am less concerned with that as I don't think there would be any real political appetite for that. Basically, I don't want a single payer system to further split the rich and poor among different systems. While I realize that it happens now, once you insert the government, my feelings become stronger that everyone should play within the same rules and same system.

My preference at this point would be to build upon ACA before scrapping it completely. There's plenty that I like about it, but there's also some glaring issues that I think need to be addressed. If we find after really trying to perfect it, it doesn't work in the end, then I am certainly open to single payer. I just don't think I/we are there yet.

[channonc 466]

The ACA is a huge runaround to get to Single Payer. Lock, stock and barrel. I would prefer a true hybrid system (that I've explained multiple times) that allows for more freedom of choice and limits the governments involvement into the system but success wasn't the intended target so I'm just going to keep "hatin".....the people are the last to be served by this effed up govt.

Could just as easily be seen as a move to kill any form of socialized healthcare for another 25 years. It depends on the propaganda you are willing to digest.

I would like to see a single payer system that provides access to a basic level of healthcare for ALL Americans and, a private, parallel system for those who want, and can afford, "premium" healthcare services. Now, all you have to do is resolve what will surely be a partisan debate over what is considered "basic" and, what is considered "premium".

This would be precisely why I would likely object to such a system you describe above. Either we go all the way to single payer, or we take ACA a bit further and start regulating at the federal level, setting price ceilings on certain things (Rx for example), include things like dental and eye care, and get rid of the state monopolies on insurance. Set minimum standards for care and get employers out of coverage all together.

But adding layers for "those who can afford it" means that there will be little attention paid to the public "basic" system and we end up right back where we started. IMO. I'm still not fully on board with a single payer but see that it could certainly have its efficiencies.

In the idealistic sense, I agree. However, in the practical sense, I do not. I think we have to realize ALL of the implications of expanding the healthcare system to efficiently include everyone. In my opinion, we have to accept that, a somewhat lower level of basic care is much better than no care at all. And, that we cannot limit anyone by attempting to impose a "one size fits all" system.

I think some of the resistance to embracing our social conscience is a reflection of that conscience being overly idealistic and, lacking in practicality. I know, this is not exactly the political climate in which you can ask anyone to shape a liberal policy with a conservative approach. Funny how the definitions of "practical" and "realistic" could be so far apart in any context.

I understand your point, and am not necessarily in disagreement. But as you will see in my response to Titan, I would rather try to expand upon ACA before scrapping it altogether for single payer. I guess I just think that these things need careful consideration of the consequences of all those we are trying to help. And on this issue, I just don't trust those in DC right now, to do it right.

[autigeremt 6,569]

The back and forth you two have just had backs up my doubt as to whether or not the govt.can or will do what is best for the American people. Therefore, the easiest thing is for them to push single payer as the way to solve all the problems. It's not propaganda.....it's the train coming from the other end of the tunnel that many see as the light.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

The back and forth you two have just had backs up my doubt as to whether or not the govt.can or will do what is best for the American people. Therefore, the easiest thing is for them to push single payer as the way to solve all the problems. It's not propaganda.....it's the train coming from the other end of the tunnel that many see as the light.

Interesting. Does the government control and direct the people or, do the people control and direct the government. Perhaps the people should stop playing the political game. Perhaps the people should stop thinking about what is in the best interest of the party or an ideology and, think about what is best for the country. Perhaps we should embrace mutual respect and compromise. Perhaps we should stop listening to the divisiveness of self-serving politicians and ideologues.

Perhaps it is time to replace the thinking of, "we are good, they are bad" with, "let's work together, let's be willing to compromise"?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

The back and forth you two have just had backs up my doubt as to whether or not the govt.can or will do what is best for the American people. Therefore, the easiest thing is for them to push single payer as the way to solve all the problems. It's not propaganda.....it's the train coming from the other end of the tunnel that many see as the light.

Interesting. Does the government control and direct the people or, do the people control and direct the government. Perhaps the people should stop playing the political game. Perhaps the people should stop thinking about what is in the best interest of the party or an ideology and, think about what is best for the country. Perhaps we should embrace mutual respect and compromise. Perhaps we should stop listening to the divisiveness of self-serving politicians and ideologues.

Perhaps it is time to replace the thinking of, "we are good, they are bad" with, "let's work together, let's be willing to compromise"?

If it can't happen on an AU Family message board what do you think the chances are on a national scale?

[autigeremt 6,569]

The back and forth you two have just had backs up my doubt as to whether or not the govt.can or will do what is best for the American people. Therefore, the easiest thing is for them to push single payer as the way to solve all the problems. It's not propaganda.....it's the train coming from the other end of the tunnel that many see as the light.

Interesting. Does the government control and direct the people or, do the people control and direct the government. Perhaps the people should stop playing the political game. Perhaps the people should stop thinking about what is in the best interest of the party or an ideology and, think about what is best for the country. Perhaps we should embrace mutual respect and compromise. Perhaps we should stop listening to the divisiveness of self-serving politicians and ideologues.

Perhaps it is time to replace the thinking of, "we are good, they are bad" with, "let's work together, let's be willing to compromise"?

Right now....the government is in control of the people because the people don't have the stomach to WORK much less work together. Hopefully it will change and soon.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

The back and forth you two have just had backs up my doubt as to whether or not the govt.can or will do what is best for the American people. Therefore, the easiest thing is for them to push single payer as the way to solve all the problems. It's not propaganda.....it's the train coming from the other end of the tunnel that many see as the light.

Interesting. Does the government control and direct the people or, do the people control and direct the government. Perhaps the people should stop playing the political game. Perhaps the people should stop thinking about what is in the best interest of the party or an ideology and, think about what is best for the country. Perhaps we should embrace mutual respect and compromise. Perhaps we should stop listening to the divisiveness of self-serving politicians and ideologues.

Perhaps it is time to replace the thinking of, "we are good, they are bad" with, "let's work together, let's be willing to compromise"?

If it can't happen on an AU Family message board what do you think the chances are on a national scale?

So, do you disagree or, are you just not willing to participate?

[homersapien 11,353]

It's funny to compare positions expressed here to the abortion thread.

The same people who lament "government control" and universal healthcare are the ones who would have the government force women to take a pregnancy to term, then walk away and leave the baby with no healthcare support.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

The back and forth you two have just had backs up my doubt as to whether or not the govt.can or will do what is best for the American people. Therefore, the easiest thing is for them to push single payer as the way to solve all the problems. It's not propaganda.....it's the train coming from the other end of the tunnel that many see as the light.

Interesting. Does the government control and direct the people or, do the people control and direct the government. Perhaps the people should stop playing the political game. Perhaps the people should stop thinking about what is in the best interest of the party or an ideology and, think about what is best for the country. Perhaps we should embrace mutual respect and compromise. Perhaps we should stop listening to the divisiveness of self-serving politicians and ideologues.

Perhaps it is time to replace the thinking of, "we are good, they are bad" with, "let's work together, let's be willing to compromise"?

Right now....the government is in control of the people because the people don't have the stomach to WORK much less work together. Hopefully it will change and soon.

Right. No one is willing to work. All of America, except for me of course, are no good lazy bums. They all suddenly became lazy the day Lehman Bros. went under. What a coincidence. Nice narrative.

[TexasTiger 12,810]

My premium almost doubled thanks to O Care.

Don't tell me that I'm getting the exact same sort of rate increase as I did before. It's just simply flat not even close.

Cost of improving economy. You're welcome.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

The back and forth you two have just had backs up my doubt as to whether or not the govt.can or will do what is best for the American people. Therefore, the easiest thing is for them to push single payer as the way to solve all the problems. It's not propaganda.....it's the train coming from the other end of the tunnel that many see as the light.

Interesting. Does the government control and direct the people or, do the people control and direct the government. Perhaps the people should stop playing the political game. Perhaps the people should stop thinking about what is in the best interest of the party or an ideology and, think about what is best for the country. Perhaps we should embrace mutual respect and compromise. Perhaps we should stop listening to the divisiveness of self-serving politicians and ideologues.

Perhaps it is time to replace the thinking of, "we are good, they are bad" with, "let's work together, let's be willing to compromise"?

If it can't happen on an AU Family message board what do you think the chances are on a national scale?

So, do you disagree or, are you just not willing to participate?

You may not remember but I tried this a long time ago.You were one who pooh poohed my intent.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

The back and forth you two have just had backs up my doubt as to whether or not the govt.can or will do what is best for the American people. Therefore, the easiest thing is for them to push single payer as the way to solve all the problems. It's not propaganda.....it's the train coming from the other end of the tunnel that many see as the light.

Interesting. Does the government control and direct the people or, do the people control and direct the government. Perhaps the people should stop playing the political game. Perhaps the people should stop thinking about what is in the best interest of the party or an ideology and, think about what is best for the country. Perhaps we should embrace mutual respect and compromise. Perhaps we should stop listening to the divisiveness of self-serving politicians and ideologues.

Perhaps it is time to replace the thinking of, "we are good, they are bad" with, "let's work together, let's be willing to compromise"?

If it can't happen on an AU Family message board what do you think the chances are on a national scale?

So, do you disagree or, are you just not willing to participate?

You may not remember but I tried this a long time ago.You were one who pooh poohed my intent.

That is the problem. You could not, would not make an effort without exclaiming your intentions. Were you genuine, there would have been no need for a declaration. Then, you were not dedicated enough to follow through for more than a couple of days (even for two days there was little difference).

Being a decent person, in real life or, on a message board, is about you, and no one else. You cannot blame anyone for who you are. No one is preventing you from being kind, considerate, thoughtful.

However, if I am going to be held accountable, I feel I at least have the right to make a suggestion. Please, try to take one discussion at a time. Do not enter a discussion with a bad attitude carried forward from a past discussion. And, grow up. There are people on this board I snipe with perpetually and, they never cry, or complain, or act as though the world is not fair. Stop pretending to be a victim. You type the words you post, no one else.

[AUFAN78 3,889]

My premium almost doubled thanks to O Care.

Don't tell me that I'm getting the exact same sort of rate increase as I did before. It's just simply flat not even close.

Cost of improving economy. You're welcome.

Improving economy my ass. Let me take you to the inner city of Bham and show you an improving economy. Some of this BS is freaking lame.

[TexasTiger 12,810]

My premium almost doubled thanks to O Care.

Don't tell me that I'm getting the exact same sort of rate increase as I did before. It's just simply flat not even close.

Cost of improving economy. You're welcome.

Improving economy my ass. Let me take you to the inner city of Bham and show you an improving economy. Some of this BS is freaking lame.

Boy, that's dumb .

[AUFAN78 3,889]

My premium almost doubled thanks to O Care.

Don't tell me that I'm getting the exact same sort of rate increase as I did before. It's just simply flat not even close.

Cost of improving economy. You're welcome.

Improving economy my ass. Let me take you to the inner city of Bham and show you an improving economy. Some of this BS is freaking lame.

Boy, that's dumb .

I've been told butt cream works well for your condition.

[autigeremt 6,569]

The back and forth you two have just had backs up my doubt as to whether or not the govt.can or will do what is best for the American people. Therefore, the easiest thing is for them to push single payer as the way to solve all the problems. It's not propaganda.....it's the train coming from the other end of the tunnel that many see as the light.

Interesting. Does the government control and direct the people or, do the people control and direct the government. Perhaps the people should stop playing the political game. Perhaps the people should stop thinking about what is in the best interest of the party or an ideology and, think about what is best for the country. Perhaps we should embrace mutual respect and compromise. Perhaps we should stop listening to the divisiveness of self-serving politicians and ideologues.

Perhaps it is time to replace the thinking of, "we are good, they are bad" with, "let's work together, let's be willing to compromise"?

Right now....the government is in control of the people because the people don't have the stomach to WORK much less work together. Hopefully it will change and soon.

Right. No one is willing to work. All of America, except for me of course, are no good lazy bums. They all suddenly became lazy the day Lehman Bros. went under. What a coincidence. Nice narrative.

WTF? I'm talking about politics and the people working to force change....not in the labor market.

[TexasTiger 12,810]

My premium almost doubled thanks to O Care.

Don't tell me that I'm getting the exact same sort of rate increase as I did before. It's just simply flat not even close.

Cost of improving economy. You're welcome.

Improving economy my ass. Let me take you to the inner city of Bham and show you an improving economy. Some of this BS is freaking lame.

Boy, that's dumb .

I've been told butt cream works well for your condition.

Not sure how that would help someone who has to deal with mindless comments.