Upon Further Review - MSU Postgame

[AUIH1 1,515]

Fair point and I agree with your assessment of my wording. In my defense, I never thought the Jax State game, the LSU game and Miss State game would have turned out the way they did. What is your opinion through 4 games this season in terms of Gus going forward based on last season and this season both on and off of the field? Be honest.

wde

I stated before the season, this was a 9-3 team. I noted the last 10 MNC winners had talent, experience and exceptional QB play. I thought we were too youthful to make a MNC run. From the people I have conversed with that were actually at practices, JJ did indeed look the part, even with physical scrimmages. I think his struggles truly caught this staff off guard as well as many others that saw him play. I have heard some interesting statements made that might explain JJ's issues but would never share them in an open forum. The injuries on defense have really set the defense back and Muschamp is doing his best to change the culture of preparation and commitment.

Again, fair enough. The injuries on D do not address the overall problem with the program. Please PM me on this board or the other board to have a non-PC discussion. Thanks. I really enjoy and value your posts FWIW.

wde

[aubfaninga 16]

His logic: Auburn can only win championships with a dual threat qb. Sean White is not a dual threat qb. Therefore, Auburn will not win a championship with Sean White.

Even if that were all true, we don't have a viable dual threat option at QB. So this is all pointless.

I just like his questions involving extreme variables.

Like me asking if he thinks the 2014 Vanderbilt team would have won the Natty with NM or Cam.

[FoundationEagle 637]

His logic: Auburn can only win championships with a dual threat qb. Sean White is not a dual threat qb. Therefore, Auburn will not win a championship with Sean White.

Even if that were all true, we don't have a viable dual threat option at QB. So this is all pointless.

I pointed out in the other thread that 101 is arguing this stance that if you take away the sacks yesterday that were clearly no SWs fault, then he ran like 64 yards on 7 carries against an SEC defense in his first game ever as a college qb whereas Nick Marshall in his first outing (not including JUCO) against a terrible Washington State D and the best Oline in recent AU history only ran for 27 yards on 9 attempts. So 1 game in Sean White averages 9 yards a carry and NM averaged 3. Sean may be a much more DT QB than anyone gives him credit for. He may not have NMs flashy moves, but everyone runs different. It matters not how good you appear to run but how well you get results running. 1 game in and White has outdone NM 3-1 in ypc. I obviously don't expect that trend to continue, but clearly SW is more than capable of running the ball. I suppose 101 may already have his wish and doesn't even realize it.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Better days ahead? I'm just not seeing it right now. Nothing against the QB play, I was actually impressed by what I saw. But being 2-2 , still in September, losing the Mississippi State two times in a row, it's tough seeing a way out of these woods.

[amsterjam 107]

Not every player who can run fast can do what Cam and Nick did. Especially without the supporting cast they had. We won 8 games with Nick last year and probably wouldn't have won many more that that even if Cam had stayed for his senior year. Simple as that.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Better days ahead? I'm just not seeing it right now. Nothing against the QB play, I was actually impressed by what I saw. But being 2-2 , still in September, losing the Mississippi State two times in a row, it's tough seeing a way out of these woods.

What does losing to MSU last year have to do with the future? That is a very odd thought. Also, our current record has no bearing on the future. Even though we lost, we just played a far better game than we did the week previous. It reasonable to expect this extremely young, new-look team to improve. In fact, they very markedly improved from the first half of the game to the second. Every single thing that could go wrong did- and at the worst possible times- and the young guys still fought. Even the older guys played with a new sense of urgency. It is reasonable and logical to expect this team to improve. And while Auburn football has defied logic lately, that doesn't suddenly make logic more fallible.

[SumterAubie 3,031]

Better days ahead? I'm just not seeing it right now. Nothing against the QB play, I was actually impressed by what I saw. But being 2-2 , still in September, losing the Mississippi State two times in a row, it's tough seeing a way out of these woods.

What does losing to MSU last year have to do with the future? That is a very odd thought. Also, our current record has no bearing on the future. Even though we lost, we just played a far better game than we did the week previous. It reasonable to expect this extremely young, new-look team to improve. In fact, they very markedly improved from the first half of the game to the second. Every single thing that could go wrong did- and at the worst possible times- and the young guys still fought. Even the older guys played with a new sense of urgency. It is reasonable and logical to expect this team to improve. And while Auburn football has defied logic lately, that doesn't suddenly make logic more fallible.

I agree here. The offense Auburn put on the field against State is young experience wise. I may be wrong on the oline starters but I believe the 5 were Coleman, Kozan, Golston, Smith, and Young. Experience wise that is what amounts to a sophomore, sophomore, sophomore, sophomore, and a junior. And two of those guys did not play a down last year. The starting fullback is a freshman in Cox. The running backs are a freshman, a sophomore, and what amounts to a freshman in Barber as far as actual experience is concerned. And in the wide receivers we have a seniors in Williams & Louis, and a sophomore in Ray.

I know grade level wise some of these guys are not frosh or sophomores. But in playing experience they are.

[3rdgeneration 6,469]

Okay, I have a question and I guess this is as good a place as any to ask it. How is Coach Grimes? Has his illness caused him to not be able to coach these guys to his normal abilities? Or with his normal energy level? Is he having to take chemo? I honestly am more concerned with him as a person than as a coach right now. I haven't seen anything recently in regards to his health. I am sure that the kids worry about their coach, too.

[AUbritt 611]

Well I guess we 're doom cause Jason will not be playing any significant amount at QB.

Thanks, a4e.

[IronMan70 3,277]

Ok I am a nobody when it comes to football abilities but what I saw made me think SW is not that bad of runner and could handle more option runs, Just saying , my opinion and 5 dollars will buy you a drink at a game.

I thought he was pretty quick with his feet too. He is also a decent ball handler at selling the fakes and with more work, could be pretty good at that.

[AUApostle 7,651]

Stat, I still don't understand. Will you explain it in all caps and write every third word backwards?

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,653]

I've been trying to ignore this very much like a certain game last season, but did we really get held to less than 10 points by Miss St at home?? I have been shifting focus to Carolina instead of Auburn because Cam might be a shining star in the space that is Auburn right now, but every time I see that score, I'm just like "wow"

[AURaptor 1,122]

Better days ahead? I'm just not seeing it right now. Nothing against the QB play, I was actually impressed by what I saw. But being 2-2 , still in September, losing the Mississippi State two times in a row, it's tough seeing a way out of these woods.

What does losing to MSU last year have to do with the future? That is a very odd thought.

Not sure what's so odd. Jeremy was suppose to be a Heisman candidate. Lawson leaves game 1, and our D falls apart. So, where's the upside ? Last time we lost to Miss State 2 x in a row was ... '98 and '99 ? Is that were our program is all of a sudden?

Also, our current record has no bearing on the future. Even though we lost, we just played a far better game than we did the week previous. It reasonable to expect this extremely young, new-look team to improve. In fact, they very markedly improved from the first half of the game to the second. Every single thing that could go wrong did- and at the worst possible times- and the young guys still fought. Even the older guys played with a new sense of urgency. It is reasonable and logical to expect this team to improve. And while Auburn football has defied logic lately, that doesn't suddenly make logic more fallible.

Our team isn't all that young. Just like other teams, we have spots of youth, but it's not across the board. Why is it that we constantly see other teams have RSFR qbs come into our house, and light up our D ? ( aTm - last year )

Miss State has passed up. Despite our great recruiting, our big name coaches, we're sitting at 2-2. This wasn't suppose to happen. It may not be all doom and gloom, but " better days ahead " ? Based on what ?

[TigerfanKM 37]

SW is a much better leader for this team right now than JJ. Everyone who wants JJ back, did you not see the "deer in the headlights" look in his eyes? He has ZERO confidence right now and every player on our team sees that and knows it. And don't think for one second something like that has no effect on the D or special teams too. CGM and CRL need to do a better job of play calling. Pass on first down for goodness sake!! How about a pass to a TE once a game, more passes to RB out of the backfield / screen passes. And the run straight up the middle off the QB read play won't work IF THE QB DOESN'T KEEP IT ONCE IN A WHILE!!! During a game, watch how wide open around the end is when the QB hands it to the RB up the middle. SW can run the ball enough to make the D respect that option. He is a BIG kid. I was very impressed with his first start. Take away the INT (he will learn from that) and the crappy high snap, and we could have beat a MSU team that only lost to LSU by 2 points the week before. Did any of you geniuses asking for JJ back not notice that!!!

SW is the future. When was the last time we had the same 3-4 year starting QB? War Eagle!

[kd4au 1,145]

SW is a much better leader for this team right now than JJ. Everyone who wants JJ back, did you not see the "deer in the headlights" look in his eyes? He has ZERO confidence right now and every player on our team sees that and knows it. And don't think for one second something like that has no effect on the D or special teams too. CGM and CRL need to do a better job of play calling. Pass on first down for goodness sake!! How about a pass to a TE once a game, more passes to RB out of the backfield / screen passes. And the run straight up the middle off the QB read play won't work IF THE QB DOESN'T KEEP IT ONCE IN A WHILE!!! During a game, watch how wide open around the end is when the QB hands it to the RB up the middle. SW can run the ball enough to make the D respect that option. He is a BIG kid. I was very impressed with his first start. Take away the INT (he will learn from that) and the crappy high snap, and we could have beat a MSU team that only lost to LSU by 2 points the week before. Did any of you geniuses asking for JJ back not notice that!!!

SW is the future. When was the last time we had the same 3-4 year starting QB? War Eagle!

I think it was Stan White and it would great to see a multi year starter at qb for change.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

I'm confused as to why so many people don't realize that success in Gus's offence isn't about the QB, it's about the blocking. Gus's offence is all about misdirection, combined with pounding the ball down their throats and killing them with the long ball. If you don't get the blocking you need, the misdirection doesn't have time to happen, the holes don't open up, and when you do pass, the QB doesn't have time to find the open receiver on a deep route. Across the board, when we have a "rebuilding year" it's because we've had to start over with the O-Line and our H-backs, either because they all graduate or because we lose a key member early.

Sure, Cam was a phenom in 2010, but we also had the most veteran O-Line that we've had in forever and we had a gentleman by the name of Lutzenkirchen. We also had receivers who blocked better than any I've seen at AU since, which I believe was the biggest reason we came home with a trophy in 2010 and not in 2013.

In 2013, we had 3 rockstars on the O-Line and a monster named Prosch.

This year we have Smith, who has amazing potential but is still raw, Kozan who is coming back from a serious injury, Golson who is still learning a new position, Coleman who arguably never came back 100% from having to take years off to beat cancer, and both of our H-Backs are young and haven't had time to bulk up. All of these guys are solid players, but they haven't quite learned to gel, and to make matters worse, they had to switch things up game 2, because of injury.

The only advantage we have from a dual-threat QB is that they have a better chance of escaping and making something happen when the play blows up. If we give a pocket passer enough protection, and make the holes our backs need, Gus's offence works perfectly without a dual-threat QB.

[McLoofus 35,182]

I'm confused as to why so many people don't realize that success in Gus's offence isn't about the QB, it's about the blocking. Gus's offence is all about misdirection, combined with pounding the ball down their throats and killing them with the long ball. If you don't get the blocking you need, the misdirection doesn't have time to happen, the holes don't open up, and when you do pass, the QB doesn't have time to find the open receiver on a deep route. Across the board, when we have a "rebuilding year" it's because we've had to start over with the O-Line and our H-backs, either because they all graduate or because we lose a key member early.

Sure, Cam was a phenom in 2010, but we also had the most veteran O-Line that we've had in forever and we had a gentleman by the name of Lutzenkirchen. We also had receivers who blocked better than any I've seen at AU since, which I believe was the biggest reason we came home with a trophy in 2010 and not in 2013.

In 2013, we had 3 rockstars on the O-Line and a monster named Prosch.

This year we have Smith, who has amazing potential but is still raw, Kozan who is coming back from a serious injury, Golson who is still learning a new position, Coleman who arguably never came back 100% from having to take years off to beat cancer, and both of our H-Backs are young and haven't had time to bulk up. All of these guys are solid players, but they haven't quite learned to gel, and to make matters worse, they had to switch things up game 2, because of injury.

The only advantage we have from a dual-threat QB is that they have a better chance of escaping and making something happen when the play blows up. If we give a pocket passer enough protection, and make the holes our backs need, Gus's offence works perfectly without a dual-threat QB.

Will you record this so that I can just play the MP3 whenever a discussion of Gus Malzahn comes back up? *applause*

For many, none of those things were true in August but they are now.

[AuGrad2004 100]

SW is a much better leader for this team right now than JJ. Everyone who wants JJ back, did you not see the "deer in the headlights" look in his eyes? He has ZERO confidence right now and every player on our team sees that and knows it. And don't think for one second something like that has no effect on the D or special teams too. CGM and CRL need to do a better job of play calling. Pass on first down for goodness sake!! How about a pass to a TE once a game, more passes to RB out of the backfield / screen passes. And the run straight up the middle off the QB read play won't work IF THE QB DOESN'T KEEP IT ONCE IN A WHILE!!! During a game, watch how wide open around the end is when the QB hands it to the RB up the middle. SW can run the ball enough to make the D respect that option. He is a BIG kid. I was very impressed with his first start. Take away the INT (he will learn from that) and the crappy high snap, and we could have beat a MSU team that only lost to LSU by 2 points the week before. Did any of you geniuses asking for JJ back not notice that!!!

SW is the future. When was the last time we had the same 3-4 year starting QB? War Eagle!

I think it was Stan White and it would great to see a multi year starter at qb for change.

Brandon Cox

[SumterAubie 3,031]

'Sure, Cam was a phenom in 2010, but we also had the most veteran O-Line that we've had in forever'

Phil Steele states a good measure of a team's potential on offense is the number of career starts of the offensive lineman. The 2010 starting oline had something 107 starts total. This year's starting oline has approximately 59.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

I'm confused as to why so many people don't realize that success in Gus's offence isn't about the QB, it's about the blocking. Gus's offence is all about misdirection, combined with pounding the ball down their throats and killing them with the long ball. If you don't get the blocking you need, the misdirection doesn't have time to happen, the holes don't open up, and when you do pass, the QB doesn't have time to find the open receiver on a deep route. Across the board, when we have a "rebuilding year" it's because we've had to start over with the O-Line and our H-backs, either because they all graduate or because we lose a key member early.

Sure, Cam was a phenom in 2010, but we also had the most veteran O-Line that we've had in forever and we had a gentleman by the name of Lutzenkirchen. We also had receivers who blocked better than any I've seen at AU since, which I believe was the biggest reason we came home with a trophy in 2010 and not in 2013.

In 2013, we had 3 rockstars on the O-Line and a monster named Prosch.

This year we have Smith, who has amazing potential but is still raw, Kozan who is coming back from a serious injury, Golson who is still learning a new position, Coleman who arguably never came back 100% from having to take years off to beat cancer, and both of our H-Backs are young and haven't had time to bulk up. All of these guys are solid players, but they haven't quite learned to gel, and to make matters worse, they had to switch things up game 2, because of injury.

The only advantage we have from a dual-threat QB is that they have a better chance of escaping and making something happen when the play blows up. If we give a pocket passer enough protection, and make the holes our backs need, Gus's offence works perfectly without a dual-threat QB.

Will you record this so that I can just play the MP3 whenever a discussion of Gus Malzahn comes back up? *applause*

For many, none of those things were true in August but they are now.

Can't knock the folks who didn't see it in August. All of the pieces are there, and were clicking right along in practice. Even unbiased outsiders see the massive potential. It really could have gone either way come game time... unfortunately, it went the wrong way.

[McLoofus 35,182]

'Sure, Cam was a phenom in 2010, but we also had the most veteran O-Line that we've had in forever'

Phil Steele states a good measure of a team's potential on offense is the number of career starts of the offensive lineman. The 2010 starting oline had something 107 starts total. This year's starting oline has approximately 59.

...and very few of those have been with each other. And the guy anchoring the whole thing got 1/5 of those starts at a different position on a different football team.

[McLoofus 35,182]

It really could have gone either way come game time...

Exactly. Unfortunately, many Auburn fans refused to even admit that.

[Tiger96 127]

Don't know if this belongs here, but if any of you stayed till the end of the game like I did, Miss State played rammer jammer. Thought that was kinda strange.

[DivisionN 102]

I believe we have proven, exceptional coaches on offense and defense. If people will be patient we will continue to improve. Recruiting has to be more consistant, especially in the defensive line. The biggest offensive problem we seem to have is tipping our plays somehow. There is no doubt that we have not fooled anyone on a pass play this year. The receivers are NOT open. The line does not give the QB enough time. The line will get better. I don't know how the plays are getting tipped off but Gus seems to be aware of it and I expect that to change. Sean White is the real deal. We need to be patient with him.

[gman87 398]

Stat, do you have statistics on down and distance due to penalties? I swear it seemed like we were 1st and 15 on almost every series.