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Crowe: Winning culture "not sustainable" with JUCO players

alabamabrown14

By alabamabrown14
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alabamabrown14 9

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Jack Crowe makes some interesting points how it's not possible to sustain a winning culture with JUCO players. Very valid points Jack makes. Don't think it answers all the questions but definitely gives some insight on why we're unable to sustain a winning culture. What do you guys think?

http://auburn.247sports.com/Bolt/Crowe-Winning-culture-not-sustainable-with-JUCO-players-40042559?utm_source=247Sports+Newsletter&utm_campaign=7b5605f58c-151007_Auburn+Tigers&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b5300ae947-7b5605f58c-221627073

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aujeff11 Founding Father

aujeff11 6,243

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Bammer started and maintained their run using juco players...

Not for as long as we do. We rely on Juco johnnies like a pill head on painkillers.
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Tiger Founding Father

Tiger 8,819

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I see the negatives and positives to going the juco route. I think it's important on a rebuilding job to get juco players as temporary band-aids. Or even when you are just really thin at a certain position. But once the roster starts filling out relying less and less on juco guys is probably ideal. You want guys growing within the program to be able to establish the culture you want.

We have just been super duper fortunate lately with Cam, Fairley, CAP, and Nick Marshall. I don't know if that speaks to recruiting or the development of the kids we are getting from HS though.

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FoundationEagle Founding Father

FoundationEagle 637

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One coaches opinion doesn't determine fact. Is it ideal to get a bunch of Jucos? No. De we load up with JUCOs? No. I guess because DW was a JUCO then now they're all bad. Let's ignore NM and Cam. I can count the number of JUCOS we have gotten recently in recent years on my fingers. 2 or so JUCOs a year is not "building" upon. This topic is not relevant to us. Less than 10 percent of our scholly players are from JUCO any given year. That means more than 90 percent of our players are from HS. Which one are we really building on?

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Tiger Founding Father

Tiger 8,819

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Right but our recent successes have been on the backs of juco guys being the focus of their side of the ball.

No way we are that good without Cam and Fairley in 2010. Or come close to winning the SEC with Frazier or JJ running the show at QB in 2013.

Not saying there is a black or white answer but ideally I would think you want your key contributers growing up within the program.

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keesler Founding Father

keesler 5,924

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Jack Crowe makes some interesting points how it's not possible to sustain a winning culture with JUCO players. Very valid points Jack makes. Don't think it answers all the questions but definitely gives some insight on why we're unable to sustain a winning culture. What do you guys think?

http://auburn.247spo...5f58c-221627073

Jack Crowe would actually have a point if Auburn were bringing in a large percentage of JUCO players, but we aren't. :dunno:
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FoundationEagle Founding Father

FoundationEagle 637

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Right but our recent successes have been on the backs of juco guys being the focus of their side of the ball.

No way we are that good without Cam and Fairley in 2010. Or come close to winning the SEC with Frazier or JJ running the show at QB in 2013.

Not saying there is a black or white answer but ideally I would think you want your key contributers growing up within the program.

Every school takes JUCOs. You take them solely because you expect them to be key contributors. If you didn't expect them to be a big part of your success, you would not take them period.

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aujeff11 Founding Father

aujeff11 6,243

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Jack Crowe makes some interesting points how it's not possible to sustain a winning culture with JUCO players. Very valid points Jack makes. Don't think it answers all the questions but definitely gives some insight on why we're unable to sustain a winning culture. What do you guys think?

http://auburn.247spo...5f58c-221627073

Jack Crowe would actually have a point if Auburn were bringing in a large percentage of JUCO players, but we aren't. :dunno:/>

Thats funny. Three Juco offers went out this week.
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FoundationEagle Founding Father

FoundationEagle 637

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Jack Crowe makes some interesting points how it's not possible to sustain a winning culture with JUCO players. Very valid points Jack makes. Don't think it answers all the questions but definitely gives some insight on why we're unable to sustain a winning culture. What do you guys think?

http://auburn.247spo...5f58c-221627073

Jack Crowe would actually have a point if Auburn were bringing in a large percentage of JUCO players, but we aren't. :dunno:/>

Thats funny. Three Juco offers went out this week.

And what do we have out total....200 HS offers? Signees are what matter. Not offers

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AURealist Founding Father

AURealist 2,185

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JUCO transfer is just additional recruiting.

That said, if you keep having to do it for the same positions year after year, then something could be wrong with your HS prospect evaluation, HS recruiting, or your talent development.

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aujeff11 Founding Father

aujeff11 6,243

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Jack Crowe makes some interesting points how it's not possible to sustain a winning culture with JUCO players. Very valid points Jack makes. Don't think it answers all the questions but definitely gives some insight on why we're unable to sustain a winning culture. What do you guys think?

http://auburn.247spo...5f58c-221627073

Jack Crowe would actually have a point if Auburn were bringing in a large percentage of JUCO players, but we aren't. :dunno:/>

Thats funny. Three Juco offers went out this week.

And what do we have out total....200 HS offers? Signees are what matter. Not offers

We didn't send them out because it is Juco offer week. We sent them out because our recruiting has gone down the toilet.
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keesler Founding Father

keesler 5,924

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Jack Crowe makes some interesting points how it's not possible to sustain a winning culture with JUCO players. Very valid points Jack makes. Don't think it answers all the questions but definitely gives some insight on why we're unable to sustain a winning culture. What do you guys think?

http://auburn.247spo...5f58c-221627073

Jack Crowe would actually have a point if Auburn were bringing in a large percentage of JUCO players, but we aren't. :dunno:/>

Thats funny. Three Juco offers went out this week.

So? How many total offers went out this week? 10, 20, 30, more?
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keesler Founding Father

keesler 5,924

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Jack Crowe makes some interesting points how it's not possible to sustain a winning culture with JUCO players. Very valid points Jack makes. Don't think it answers all the questions but definitely gives some insight on why we're unable to sustain a winning culture. What do you guys think?

http://auburn.247spo...5f58c-221627073

Jack Crowe would actually have a point if Auburn were bringing in a large percentage of JUCO players, but we aren't. :dunno:/>

Thats funny. Three Juco offers went out this week.

And what do we have out total....200 HS offers? Signees are what matter. Not offers

We didn't send them out because it is Juco offer week. We sent them out because our recruiting has gone down the toilet.

Down the toilet compared to what programs?
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aujeff11 Founding Father

aujeff11 6,243

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Jack Crowe makes some interesting points how it's not possible to sustain a winning culture with JUCO players. Very valid points Jack makes. Don't think it answers all the questions but definitely gives some insight on why we're unable to sustain a winning culture. What do you guys think?

http://auburn.247spo...5f58c-221627073

Jack Crowe would actually have a point if Auburn were bringing in a large percentage of JUCO players, but we aren't. :dunno:/>

Thats funny. Three Juco offers went out this week.

So? How many total offers went out this week? 10, 20, 30, more?

If so, I've only seen the Juco offers reported..............
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AuGrad2004 Rising Star

AuGrad2004 100

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Kansas State with Bill Synder says hello.....

About half of their scholarships got to juco players every year and they have been pretty successful under Synder. It took him a little time to rebuild a 0 win team. The gap is close to when they replaced him and when they brought him backl

1993: 9-2-1

1994: 9-3

1995: 10-2

1996: 9-3

1997: 11-1

1998: 11-2

1999: 11-1

2000: 11-3

2001: 6-6

2002: 11-2

2003: 11-4

2011: 10-3

2012: 11-2

2014: 9-4

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aujeff11 Founding Father

aujeff11 6,243

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Jack Crowe makes some interesting points how it's not possible to sustain a winning culture with JUCO players. Very valid points Jack makes. Don't think it answers all the questions but definitely gives some insight on why we're unable to sustain a winning culture. What do you guys think?

http://auburn.247spo...5f58c-221627073

Jack Crowe would actually have a point if Auburn were bringing in a large percentage of JUCO players, but we aren't. :dunno:/>

Thats funny. Three Juco offers went out this week.

And what do we have out total....200 HS offers? Signees are what matter. Not offers

We didn't send them out because it is Juco offer week. We sent them out because our recruiting has gone down the toilet.

Down the toilet compared to what programs?

Google.com
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Tiger Founding Father

Tiger 8,819

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JUCO transfer is just additional recruiting.

That said, if you keep having to do it for the same positions year after year, then something could be wrong with your HS prospect evaluation, HS recruiting, or your talent development.

That's pretty much the point I was trying to make

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aucanucktiger Founding Father

aucanucktiger 1,791

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Might be true for Jack & others but guys like Gus & Les Mileswould be crazy ignoring their own success using JUCOs. AU national title with critical JUCOs Cam &Nick (2010), within 13 seconds of winning another with Nick M. (2013). The list of teams that probably aren't in the national title race without JUCO players at a key position is long. John Copeland (Bama, 1992) for starters but note the old prop 48 sliding scale used to keep many terrible students (in Jack Crow's day) like Heisman winner Charlie Ward from being JUCO.

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Win4AU Founding Father

Win4AU 4,052

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I think you'll see less and less Jucos as we create depth at every position. The way we flipped coaches between Tubs, Chiz, and Gus you are going to have attrition from a lot of the players they recruited who don't feel loyal to the school anymore. Also trying to change systems means recruiting players that don't fit anymore. Something else to remember about Jucos is a lot of these kids wanted to come to your school to begin with but couldn't make grades. If a Cam Newton type player is at Juco then you get him no matter what your depth chart looks like

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aujeff11 Founding Father

aujeff11 6,243

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How many national championships did Jack Crowe win as an oc?

If that is not a fallacy I don't know what is.
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ertrader Community Regular

ertrader 197

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I don't know what anyone considers "a lot" or "too many" but her are numbers for Gus's classes:

2013: 6 of 23 JUCO (28%)

2014: 6 of 23 JUCO (28%)

2015 3 of 27 JUCO (11%)

Overall 15 of 73 (20%)

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WarDamnAirForce Collaborator

WarDamnAirForce 23

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I know there may be cases that disprove each theory, but I think it would possibly be an issue if your leaders and top performers were consistently JUCO or transfers. At some point, you have to grow leaders from within. I'm not sure the percentages matter as much as who they are and what they are doing. Maybe I'm not making sense...

When was the last quarterback to successfully start for Auburn that wasn't a transfer? Brandon Cox in '07? No, I'm not going to count Trotter in '11. Have we gone 8 years without developing an SEC caliber QB without bringing someone in? Who's our best defensive player seeing the field consistently? Blake Countess, a transfer. WR? Before his dismissal, talent wise it was Duke, a transfer. I get that transfers can and maybe even should play a big role, but at what point do you look at the situation and say, maybe Auburn has a development issue? We can keep ourselves competitive and afloat with JUCO's, or we can figure out how to actually develop a team. As many on here stated before, a majority of our recruiting focus is in HS, and that's where most of our offers are. So why isn't that avenue producing more results?

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