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President Obama Leaving 5,500 Troops in Afghanistan After Office


autigeremt

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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.
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If you've followed any of Gate's statements or Obama's recent statements; he's completely indifferent to the plight of the people he has put in harms way over the years or any ME policies he's implemented in his time in office. I'm shocked that he made this decision...it represents a half measure; but still shocked he bit this bullet.

That's just BS.

Which part? Gates statements are pretty clear...not just his statements; but pretty much everyone who's been associated with this and gotten out of gov't. And it is a half measure...so not sure what the BS reference is meant to cover. You can't be saying he really cares about an outcome for the Afghan people do you? And if he truly cared for the US troops he sends there, he wouldn't leave them this exposed.

That is BS which ought to be below you.

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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.

The smart thing would have been to state that he didn't know if we could pull out or not but that he would do everything he could to get us out of there. Instead he broke yet another promise he made to his constituents to gain the presidency. Being truthful is something we as a society should expect from our leaders but we have lowered our standards so much that it no longer means a thing......

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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.

The smart thing would have been to state that he didn't know if we could pull out or not but that he would do everything he could to get us out of there. Instead he broke yet another promise he made to his constituents to gain the presidency. Being truthful is something we as a society should expect from our leaders but we have lowered our standards so much that it no longer means a thing......

Put the rhetoric down, dude and have a freaking conversation. Curveballs happen. You were supposedly military. Do you not remember the term "Frago"
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I am reminded repeatedly that no matter what moves or decisions are made Obama is always wrong and it's usually on purpose. We could save a lot of time arguing.

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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.

The smart thing would have been to state that he didn't know if we could pull out or not but that he would do everything he could to get us out of there. Instead he broke yet another promise he made to his constituents to gain the presidency. Being truthful is something we as a society should expect from our leaders but we have lowered our standards so much that it no longer means a thing......

i can't disagree. We all want a "plan". I don't think anyone can predict the future 100%. How electable would the candidate who says "i would be inheriting a s*** storm and will do my best to end it as soon and as responsibly as possible. I can assure you i want it over as much as anyone "? I don't think many are willing to elect that guy.
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I am reminded repeatedly that no matter what moves or decisions are made Obama is always wrong and it's usually on purpose. We could save a lot of time arguing.

The main problem w/ Obama is that he believes so many things which aren't true.

Take Russia's actions in Syria. Obama thinks that Russia is tanking their own economy over this, while Obama was the one who drew the Red Line in the sand, and then did absolutely nothing. When reminded of this, Obama stunningly responds with some idioitic remark about global warming, as if that is by any measure a legitimate or serious issue.

It isn't. Meanwhile, 100,000's of refuges are fleeing war torn parts of the Mid East and Africa, primarily as a result of the expanse of militant Islam.

Obama ignores all this, does his best Nero impression, and sticks to his campaign / political agenda rhetoric.

Unbelievable.

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I am reminded repeatedly that no matter what moves or decisions are made Obama is always wrong and it's usually on purpose. We could save a lot of time arguing.

The main problem w/ Obama is that he believes so many things which aren't true.

Take Russia's actions in Syria. Obama thinks that Russia is tanking their own economy over this, while Obama was the one who drew the Red Line in the sand, and then did absolutely nothing. When reminded of this, Obama stunningly responds with some idioitic remark about global warming, as if that is by any measure a legitimate or serious issue.

It isn't. Meanwhile, 100,000's of refuges are fleeing war torn parts of the Mid East and Africa, primarily as a result of the expanse of militant Islam.

Obama ignores all this, does his best Nero impression, and sticks to his campaign / political agenda rhetoric.

Unbelievable.

You just proved Alexava's statement.

Obama pulls out? He left our Afghani allies high and dry.

Obama stays in? He broke a campaign promise.

Heads he loses, tails you win.

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Hey homer, maybe Obama should think more about what he says before he starts opening his mouth.

Bush 41 said " read my lips ! No new taxes ! " and it cost him a re-election. Too bad the same didn't happen to Obama, who made bigger gaffs.

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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.

I would disagree with them. We should have never went in for the long haul in the first place. We went in to get Bin Laden but some Generals wanted to get in the game and screwed it up and there was an internal fight between regular forces and Special Ops/CIA. We know how that ended. So long story short we ended up in a country fighting taliban and dealing with two faced Pakistan and other proxies, loosing a lot of valuable lives, permanently damaging young peoples lives. I have spent over 27 years in the military and have lived through our conflicts from the first desert storm. I am all for strong military but when we are misused and abused it is time to say enough. Afghanistan is not fixable. Why? Many reasons but a few is that their government is really corrupt and if you did a forensic analysis of the money spent over there you would be appalled to where it ended up. Having a military presence will not fix that and when their infrastructure plays both sides no matter how much training you do for their people to protect themselves you cannot over come that. Some of our ROE is also rigged against the military. But you also have many GS types that in order to get ahead go over for a few months to put a check in the box and some don't contribute but hide in the compounds. Some of my brethren have been stuck over there for a year at a time. That is no way to live especially when you see how things are over there and it is time to cut our losses. Iraq is another story that the State Dept screwed up early. Sorry for the rant but these kind of decisions are personal to me and my family. I also have a son who is a combat medic so I also worry about him more than me as I will be retiring next year.
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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.

I would disagree with them. We should have never went in for the long haul in the first place. We went in to get Bin Laden but some Generals wanted to get in the game and screwed it up and there was an internal fight between regular forces and Special Ops/CIA. We know how that ended. So long story short we ended up in a country fighting taliban and dealing with two faced Pakistan and other proxies, loosing a lot of valuable lives, permanently damaging young peoples lives. I have spent over 27 years in the military and have lived through our conflicts from the first desert storm. I am all for strong military but when we are misused and abused it is time to say enough. Afghanistan is not fixable. Why? Many reasons but a few is that their government is really corrupt and if you did a forensic analysis of the money spent over there you would be appalled to where it ended up. Having a military presence will not fix that and when their infrastructure plays both sides no matter how much training you do for their people to protect themselves you cannot over come that. Some of our ROE is also rigged against the military. But you also have many GS types that in order to get ahead go over for a few months to put a check in the box and some don't contribute but hide in the compounds. Some of my brethren have been stuck over there for a year at a time. That is no way to live especially when you see how things are over there and it is time to cut our losses. Iraq is another story that the State Dept screwed up early. Sorry for the rant but these kind of decisions are personal to me and my family. I also have a son who is a combat medic so I also worry about him more than me as I will be retiring next year.

Your opinion is well received. I share in some of your frustrations as did the the gentlemen that I talked to while I was deployed, so they were not necessarily wrong. I just don't think we can let go of the region with ISIS seeking shelter in Afghanistan and with key areas that are already in contention with the Taliban. As far as the ROE and the "GS types and their check- a- box schedule" those are all red herrings.
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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.

I would disagree with them. We should have never went in for the long haul in the first place. We went in to get Bin Laden but some Generals wanted to get in the game and screwed it up and there was an internal fight between regular forces and Special Ops/CIA. We know how that ended. So long story short we ended up in a country fighting taliban and dealing with two faced Pakistan and other proxies, loosing a lot of valuable lives, permanently damaging young peoples lives. I have spent over 27 years in the military and have lived through our conflicts from the first desert storm. I am all for strong military but when we are misused and abused it is time to say enough. Afghanistan is not fixable. Why? Many reasons but a few is that their government is really corrupt and if you did a forensic analysis of the money spent over there you would be appalled to where it ended up. Having a military presence will not fix that and when their infrastructure plays both sides no matter how much training you do for their people to protect themselves you cannot over come that. Some of our ROE is also rigged against the military. But you also have many GS types that in order to get ahead go over for a few months to put a check in the box and some don't contribute but hide in the compounds. Some of my brethren have been stuck over there for a year at a time. That is no way to live especially when you see how things are over there and it is time to cut our losses. Iraq is another story that the State Dept screwed up early. Sorry for the rant but these kind of decisions are personal to me and my family. I also have a son who is a combat medic so I also worry about him more than me as I will be retiring next year.

Your opinion is well received. I share in some of your frustrations as did the the gentlemen that I talked to while I was deployed, so they were not necessarily wrong. I just don't think we can let go of the region with ISIS seeking shelter in Afghanistan and with key areas that are already in contention with the Taliban. As far as the ROE and the "GS types and their check- a- box schedule" those are all red herrings.

Our comments on this forum confirm that Obama was damned if he did, damned if he didn't with his decision on a pullout. Opinions would be split and the one's with a differing opinion would most likely be the loudest. IMO, the situation in Afghanistan has worsen over the last 18 months and there is no decisive plan to improve the situation in the next 18 months. While the "GS types and their check a box schedule" could be considered a red herring, their contribution to the effort is minimal at best. I would suggest it actually takes away from the troops that are on patrols and training the Afghans, NATO and NATO want to be partners. My opinion comes from reading between the lines of cryptic conversations with my two sons that are serving so it could be off base. One son patrolled and called for/directed close air support for our partners (who are just participating to improve their resume to become a part of NATO) and the other son is special forces that spent his time on an exercise in TX instead of applying his training in an obvious area of need. Oh and the "NATO want to be's" tend to run instead of engaging during firefights.

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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.

I would disagree with them. We should have never went in for the long haul in the first place. We went in to get Bin Laden but some Generals wanted to get in the game and screwed it up and there was an internal fight between regular forces and Special Ops/CIA. We know how that ended. So long story short we ended up in a country fighting taliban and dealing with two faced Pakistan and other proxies, loosing a lot of valuable lives, permanently damaging young peoples lives. I have spent over 27 years in the military and have lived through our conflicts from the first desert storm. I am all for strong military but when we are misused and abused it is time to say enough. Afghanistan is not fixable. Why? Many reasons but a few is that their government is really corrupt and if you did a forensic analysis of the money spent over there you would be appalled to where it ended up. Having a military presence will not fix that and when their infrastructure plays both sides no matter how much training you do for their people to protect themselves you cannot over come that. Some of our ROE is also rigged against the military. But you also have many GS types that in order to get ahead go over for a few months to put a check in the box and some don't contribute but hide in the compounds. Some of my brethren have been stuck over there for a year at a time. That is no way to live especially when you see how things are over there and it is time to cut our losses. Iraq is another story that the State Dept screwed up early. Sorry for the rant but these kind of decisions are personal to me and my family. I also have a son who is a combat medic so I also worry about him more than me as I will be retiring next year.

Very well stated.

Corruption is the "elephant in the room" that no one wants to acknowledge.

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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.

I would disagree with them. We should have never went in for the long haul in the first place. We went in to get Bin Laden but some Generals wanted to get in the game and screwed it up and there was an internal fight between regular forces and Special Ops/CIA. We know how that ended. So long story short we ended up in a country fighting taliban and dealing with two faced Pakistan and other proxies, loosing a lot of valuable lives, permanently damaging young peoples lives. I have spent over 27 years in the military and have lived through our conflicts from the first desert storm. I am all for strong military but when we are misused and abused it is time to say enough. Afghanistan is not fixable. Why? Many reasons but a few is that their government is really corrupt and if you did a forensic analysis of the money spent over there you would be appalled to where it ended up. Having a military presence will not fix that and when their infrastructure plays both sides no matter how much training you do for their people to protect themselves you cannot over come that. Some of our ROE is also rigged against the military. But you also have many GS types that in order to get ahead go over for a few months to put a check in the box and some don't contribute but hide in the compounds. Some of my brethren have been stuck over there for a year at a time. That is no way to live especially when you see how things are over there and it is time to cut our losses. Iraq is another story that the State Dept screwed up early. Sorry for the rant but these kind of decisions are personal to me and my family. I also have a son who is a combat medic so I also worry about him more than me as I will be retiring next year.

Very well stated.

Corruption is the "elephant in the room" that no one wants to acknowledge.

Corruption isn't the elephant in the room that is causing the delay in the withdrawals. Neither is our ROE or our Government contractors. Sometimes I have to wonder if y'all even remember what the OP was about. Yeah, there may be corruption issues, but we probably had corruption issues before Afghanistan, and we will have them, Lord help us, whenever we leave. I've ranted about the ROE a thousand times on this platform but our ROE has nothing to with the 2017. I used to have to escort government contractors from fob to fob and those contractors did work, and they did waste thousands of dollars trying to inventory our shat. Logistically, there was so much paperwork just to keep track of the Afghan vehicles, that I saw three different contractors fill one position because two quit and one got fired for losing so many vehicles. One government contractor once told me that if the government ever audited the money and the value that is lost through our government contractors, that at least 25 people would either be fired or in prison. Water is wet, right?

And I say all that, but even "government contractor check a box jobs" still dont have much to with Obama keeping the forces in Afghanistan. Whenever y'all want to actually discuss the OP, let me know.

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The OP was about leaving a few troops (almost 10k) in Afghanistan after promising we would pull them out. Has our President changed his opinion on the "need" for these troops to be present? Our troops are in a hostile environment without a clear directive and a weak ass ROE. This President didn't put them there. He committed to bringing them out. He changed his mind. I get that. We don't see the information that he is privy to but this is a big decision/non decision that goes against his campaign promises.

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I will add that my understanding of the "check the box" comment might have been wrong. I took that to mean the troops that are stationed in a base with 3 hot meals and limited to no chance of contact. I know that support troops are needed but that subject is hitting a nerve with me right now due to personal reasons.

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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.

The smart thing would have been to state that he didn't know if we could pull out or not but that he would do everything he could to get us out of there. Instead he broke yet another promise he made to his constituents to gain the presidency. Being truthful is something we as a society should expect from our leaders but we have lowered our standards so much that it no longer means a thing......

Put the rhetoric down, dude and have a freaking conversation. Curveballs happen. You were supposedly military. Do you not remember the term "Frago"

I remember it quite well. I also remember candidate Obama tripling down on his own rhetoric. I did my 12 years and this former service member turned civilian is tired of the lying bastards using our service as part of their own game of chess. A real leader puts it out there and stands on his own merit.

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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.

I would disagree with them. We should have never went in for the long haul in the first place. We went in to get Bin Laden but some Generals wanted to get in the game and screwed it up and there was an internal fight between regular forces and Special Ops/CIA. We know how that ended. So long story short we ended up in a country fighting taliban and dealing with two faced Pakistan and other proxies, loosing a lot of valuable lives, permanently damaging young peoples lives. I have spent over 27 years in the military and have lived through our conflicts from the first desert storm. I am all for strong military but when we are misused and abused it is time to say enough. Afghanistan is not fixable. Why? Many reasons but a few is that their government is really corrupt and if you did a forensic analysis of the money spent over there you would be appalled to where it ended up. Having a military presence will not fix that and when their infrastructure plays both sides no matter how much training you do for their people to protect themselves you cannot over come that. Some of our ROE is also rigged against the military. But you also have many GS types that in order to get ahead go over for a few months to put a check in the box and some don't contribute but hide in the compounds. Some of my brethren have been stuck over there for a year at a time. That is no way to live especially when you see how things are over there and it is time to cut our losses. Iraq is another story that the State Dept screwed up early. Sorry for the rant but these kind of decisions are personal to me and my family. I also have a son who is a combat medic so I also worry about him more than me as I will be retiring next year.

Very well stated.

Corruption is the "elephant in the room" that no one wants to acknowledge.

No doubt about that. I'm just ready for someone to start shooting it straight (either side of the room) with the American people.....of course most of them could care less. Shoot me for being in the minority.

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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.

The smart thing would have been to state that he didn't know if we could pull out or not but that he would do everything he could to get us out of there. Instead he broke yet another promise he made to his constituents to gain the presidency. Being truthful is something we as a society should expect from our leaders but we have lowered our standards so much that it no longer means a thing......

Put the rhetoric down, dude and have a freaking conversation. Curveballs happen. You were supposedly military. Do you not remember the term "Frago"

I remember it quite well. I also remember candidate Obama tripling down on his own rhetoric. I did my 12 years and this former service member turned civilian is tired of the lying bastards using our service as part of their own game of chess. A real leader puts it out there and stands on his own merit.

You are hilarious
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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.

The smart thing would have been to state that he didn't know if we could pull out or not but that he would do everything he could to get us out of there. Instead he broke yet another promise he made to his constituents to gain the presidency. Being truthful is something we as a society should expect from our leaders but we have lowered our standards so much that it no longer means a thing......

Put the rhetoric down, dude and have a freaking conversation. Curveballs happen. You were supposedly military. Do you not remember the term "Frago"

I remember it quite well. I also remember candidate Obama tripling down on his own rhetoric. I did my 12 years and this former service member turned civilian is tired of the lying bastards using our service as part of their own game of chess. A real leader puts it out there and stands on his own merit.

You are hilarious

I'll be here all week. lol

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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.

I would disagree with them. We should have never went in for the long haul in the first place. We went in to get Bin Laden but some Generals wanted to get in the game and screwed it up and there was an internal fight between regular forces and Special Ops/CIA. We know how that ended. So long story short we ended up in a country fighting taliban and dealing with two faced Pakistan and other proxies, loosing a lot of valuable lives, permanently damaging young peoples lives. I have spent over 27 years in the military and have lived through our conflicts from the first desert storm. I am all for strong military but when we are misused and abused it is time to say enough. Afghanistan is not fixable. Why? Many reasons but a few is that their government is really corrupt and if you did a forensic analysis of the money spent over there you would be appalled to where it ended up. Having a military presence will not fix that and when their infrastructure plays both sides no matter how much training you do for their people to protect themselves you cannot over come that. Some of our ROE is also rigged against the military. But you also have many GS types that in order to get ahead go over for a few months to put a check in the box and some don't contribute but hide in the compounds. Some of my brethren have been stuck over there for a year at a time. That is no way to live especially when you see how things are over there and it is time to cut our losses. Iraq is another story that the State Dept screwed up early. Sorry for the rant but these kind of decisions are personal to me and my family. I also have a son who is a combat medic so I also worry about him more than me as I will be retiring next year.

Very well stated.

Corruption is the "elephant in the room" that no one wants to acknowledge.

Corruption isn't the elephant in the room that is causing the delay in the withdrawals. Neither is our ROE or our Government contractors. Sometimes I have to wonder if y'all even remember what the OP was about. Yeah, there may be corruption issues, but we probably had corruption issues before Afghanistan, and we will have them, Lord help us, whenever we leave....

I was referring to corruption in the Afghani government. The Afghani people don't have a government (i.e.: country) worth fighting for. The reason we can't leave is the Afghani army will collapse without our standing behind them. That has as much to do with will as it does training.

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The OP was about leaving a few troops (almost 10k) in Afghanistan after promising we would pull them out. Has our President changed his opinion on the "need" for these troops to be present? Our troops are in a hostile environment without a clear directive and a weak ass ROE. This President didn't put them there. He committed to bringing them out. He changed his mind. I get that. We don't see the information that he is privy to but this is a big decision/non decision that goes against his campaign promises.

I think Obama trusted in the plan to train the Afghani army to the point they could handle their own defense. As I said above, the problem ultimately resides in their will to fight and possibly die for their country.

He is now left with the decision to pull completely out, which will result shortly in the takeover of the country by radical elements or buy more time in the hope the situation improves. It's a Hobson's choice.

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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.

I would disagree with them. We should have never went in for the long haul in the first place. We went in to get Bin Laden but some Generals wanted to get in the game and screwed it up and there was an internal fight between regular forces and Special Ops/CIA. We know how that ended. So long story short we ended up in a country fighting taliban and dealing with two faced Pakistan and other proxies, loosing a lot of valuable lives, permanently damaging young peoples lives. I have spent over 27 years in the military and have lived through our conflicts from the first desert storm. I am all for strong military but when we are misused and abused it is time to say enough. Afghanistan is not fixable. Why? Many reasons but a few is that their government is really corrupt and if you did a forensic analysis of the money spent over there you would be appalled to where it ended up. Having a military presence will not fix that and when their infrastructure plays both sides no matter how much training you do for their people to protect themselves you cannot over come that. Some of our ROE is also rigged against the military. But you also have many GS types that in order to get ahead go over for a few months to put a check in the box and some don't contribute but hide in the compounds. Some of my brethren have been stuck over there for a year at a time. That is no way to live especially when you see how things are over there and it is time to cut our losses. Iraq is another story that the State Dept screwed up early. Sorry for the rant but these kind of decisions are personal to me and my family. I also have a son who is a combat medic so I also worry about him more than me as I will be retiring next year.

Very well stated.

Corruption is the "elephant in the room" that no one wants to acknowledge.

Corruption isn't the elephant in the room that is causing the delay in the withdrawals. Neither is our ROE or our Government contractors. Sometimes I have to wonder if y'all even remember what the OP was about. Yeah, there may be corruption issues, but we probably had corruption issues before Afghanistan, and we will have them, Lord help us, whenever we leave....

I was referring to corruption in the Afghani government. The Afghani people don't have a government (i.e.: country) worth fighting for. The reason we can't leave is the Afghani army will collapse without our standing behind them. That has as much to do with will as it does training.

Yes he missed the big picture. Corruption in the Afghani and Pakistan governments are the main problem as to why they cannot stand on their own. I know the contractors are there to do a job and have no problem with it. Red Herrings as he put it on ROE and others are actually not red herrings. You have to look at the big picture over the long haul and not at the current status. If you look back at its entirety, what I said is very accurate although concise. Why do I know some of these things? I have been there, I have worked at a few COCOMs that are directly involved over this time frame and have seen the inner workings of the decisions and why they were made plus the comments of Generals and SES's plus higher GS's so I am not misinformed but have an understanding of why some things went on and it wasn't for the betterment of the Afghanis. Now I have also had many discussions with friends who have shared their deployment experiences and what they have seen. We are so hand tied in many ways that the common folks on the ground don't see what is going on in the Background but have taken the brunt of the attacks out in the FOB's etc. Plus close in support has been lacking at times due to ROE. ISIS is a new problem not an old problem and we should have been out of Afghanistan a long time ago but due to policy and politics we remain. So what is our clear objective by remaining in Afghanistan? Anyone? We have spent over a trillion dollars in that area to what avail? What has changed since we went in other than Bin Laden being dead? What is our goal? Is it to protect the chinese while they take all of the copper out of there? Is it to fill the coffers of the Afghanis? Seriously what is the bigger picture and not the minutia?
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Still another broken campaign promise. Regardless of where your heart is.......

Afghanistan is in no shape to pull out now. I knew we couldn't long time ago. I had several Colonels, generals, and govt contractors over gs 7 grade tell me it was impossible. It would have been selfish for Obama to pull out just so he can get the glory from delivering on a promise. Obama is doing the smart thing.

I would disagree with them. We should have never went in for the long haul in the first place. We went in to get Bin Laden but some Generals wanted to get in the game and screwed it up and there was an internal fight between regular forces and Special Ops/CIA. We know how that ended. So long story short we ended up in a country fighting taliban and dealing with two faced Pakistan and other proxies, loosing a lot of valuable lives, permanently damaging young peoples lives. I have spent over 27 years in the military and have lived through our conflicts from the first desert storm. I am all for strong military but when we are misused and abused it is time to say enough. Afghanistan is not fixable. Why? Many reasons but a few is that their government is really corrupt and if you did a forensic analysis of the money spent over there you would be appalled to where it ended up. Having a military presence will not fix that and when their infrastructure plays both sides no matter how much training you do for their people to protect themselves you cannot over come that. Some of our ROE is also rigged against the military. But you also have many GS types that in order to get ahead go over for a few months to put a check in the box and some don't contribute but hide in the compounds. Some of my brethren have been stuck over there for a year at a time. That is no way to live especially when you see how things are over there and it is time to cut our losses. Iraq is another story that the State Dept screwed up early. Sorry for the rant but these kind of decisions are personal to me and my family. I also have a son who is a combat medic so I also worry about him more than me as I will be retiring next year.

Very well stated.

Corruption is the "elephant in the room" that no one wants to acknowledge.

Corruption isn't the elephant in the room that is causing the delay in the withdrawals. Neither is our ROE or our Government contractors. Sometimes I have to wonder if y'all even remember what the OP was about. Yeah, there may be corruption issues, but we probably had corruption issues before Afghanistan, and we will have them, Lord help us, whenever we leave....

I was referring to corruption in the Afghani government. The Afghani people don't have a government (i.e.: country) worth fighting for. The reason we can't leave is the Afghani army will collapse without our standing behind them. That has as much to do with will as it does training.

Yes he missed the big picture. Corruption in the Afghani and Pakistan governments are the main problem as to why they cannot stand on their own. I know the contractors are there to do a job and have no problem with it. Red Herrings as he put it on ROE and others are actually not red herrings. You have to look at the big picture over the long haul and not at the current status. If you look back at its entirety, what I said is very accurate although concise. Why do I know some of these things? I have been there, I have worked at a few COCOMs that are directly involved over this time frame and have seen the inner workings of the decisions and why they were made plus the comments of Generals and SES's plus higher GS's so I am not misinformed but have an understanding of why some things went on and it wasn't for the betterment of the Afghanis. Now I have also had many discussions with friends who have shared their deployment experiences and what they have seen. We are so hand tied in many ways that the common folks on the ground don't see what is going on in the Background but have taken the brunt of the attacks out in the FOB's etc. Plus close in support has been lacking at times due to ROE. ISIS is a new problem not an old problem and we should have been out of Afghanistan a long time ago but due to policy and politics we remain. So what is our clear objective by remaining in Afghanistan? Anyone? We have spent over a trillion dollars in that area to what avail? What has changed since we went in other than Bin Laden being dead? What is our goal? Is it to protect the chinese while they take all of the copper out of there? Is it to fill the coffers of the Afghanis? Seriously what is the bigger picture and not the minutia?

I don't think it is possible to change Afghan to a democracy or any of that. I guess the lesson is that some wars are best left unstarted! There is obviously corruption in the Afghan ranks but these are the same forces that we need to fight ISIS and the Taliban in my opinion. Afghanistan will crumble if we withdraw. Just last month, we had to prevent a city from being completely overrun by the Taliban. If we left, there would be complete chaos. As far as the copper and minerals in Afghanistan, if America was smart they would start buying into it. There is a wealthy abundance of minerals for the taking and I don't know why we are not dipping into it while China is.

I still don't see the relevance of our ROE and the OP but you can start a thread. I would love to discuss it.

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We are not into the minerals because none of our companies that bid on the contract won it. They didn't grease the skids of the Afghani politicians. ROE is and was a factor for us getting out and solving some of the corruption. For instance we are not allowed to take out corrupt officials that are doing bad things to little boys. Our ROE and higher up policy makers allow it. Also, CAS is/was needed but our ROE prevented the use of CAS and it caused a few of my friends not to get the support they needed under fire or once approved took too long when assets were in place. That is part of the problem....our sides policies and corruption on the afghani part along with the double face of Pakistan who by the way was instrumental in attacks on contract support that was provided by Indian companies because they were the only ones willing to do the work for such a low bid but some of their workers paid the price. That is Pakistan supported insurgents when it met their needs and when we turned up the heat they went against them and also because the insurgents started striking close to home. Pakistan made & makes a killing off of the US since we use their ports and roads to get stuff into the country.

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