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Muschamp so far


Richard78

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All I know is AU hasn't come close to having a top shelf SEC defense in a long time. For whatever reason, youth, lack of talent, inexperience, injuries, attrition, scheme, constant carousel of coaches, etc. :sad2:

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Ever since we went to the Malzhan offense our defense has been down. (That's one way of looking at it). My question would be is there something to be said of how "spread" type teams practice, that effects the defense's physicality? (I know we aren't the traditional spread) it seems most all spread teams have a poor defense, there has to be something similar that's the issue, and perhaps its in how the defense practices and prepares?

I'm not sure if true but I heard we didn't hit much in practice?

Clemson's defense looks pretty stout this year.

Muschamp's defenses at Texas were good and they ran a spread type system with Colt McCoy

Urban Meyer seems to have had good to very good defenses at Florida and Ohio State.

Missouri's defense has been pretty good.

Mississippi State has played good defense the past two years as has Ole Miss most of the time under Freeze the last couple of seasons.

I think that how you practice may have something to do with it, along with the type of players recruited. But other than that I think this falls under "correlation does not equal causation."

gus is not a spread coach.
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Our D-Line has been good since Rodney Garner came.

??????? Are you talking about Auburn? Thinking you may have come to this forum by accident. Maybe you thought this was Auburn high school's football team?

Probably meant "hasn't".

Haha I didn't notice that lol. Yes I meant hasn't. Would love to see the stats since he came though.

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Muschamp inherited a good Florida defense. It's not like he transformed them from a bad defense to a good defense. They were good on defense under Urban Meyer like Titan mentioned about teams having good defenses while having spread offenses.

AND.....I'm sure willing to give him more than 1/2 of a season to change the results. We argue to give HCs 4 or 5 years to prove themselves and we expect the DC to do it in a few months? Does that make any sense to anyone?

Ellis Johnson was given 2 years and was let go. If we don't show much improvement next year under Muschamp then count me as someone who won't be sad if Muschamp goes elsewhere. We can get somebody to give us similar results for a lot less than what we're paying.

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Ever since we went to the Malzhan offense our defense has been down. (That's one way of looking at it). My question would be is there something to be said of how "spread" type teams practice, that effects the defense's physicality? (I know we aren't the traditional spread) it seems most all spread teams have a poor defense, there has to be something similar that's the issue, and perhaps its in how the defense practices and prepares?

I'm not sure if true but I heard we didn't hit much in practice?

Clemson's defense looks pretty stout this year.

Muschamp's defenses at Texas were good and they ran a spread type system with Colt McCoy

Urban Meyer seems to have had good to very good defenses at Florida and Ohio State.

Missouri's defense has been pretty good.

Mississippi State has played good defense the past two years as has Ole Miss most of the time under Freeze the last couple of seasons.

I think that how you practice may have something to do with it, along with the type of players recruited. But other than that I think this falls under "correlation does not equal causation."

gus is not a spread coach.

No, AU does in fact spread it out.

Spread doesn't mean an Air Raid attack or anything like that. Spread simply means that you spread your offensive players wider across the field than in traditional sets where everyone (except maybe a single wideout in the old days) is in fairly tight to the offensive line.

The spread philosophy is designed to get defenders spread out in space to open up some ground and to make it hard for defenders to close the gap once they see where the ball is going. Malzahn at AU runs a run/play action offense...but he does it from the spread. (At least usually. The first two games with Sean White as starter at QB saw our formations in much tighter/less spread out in what seemed to be an effort to protect the new QB and concentrate on running with power. That changed back somewhat to a more spread out attack against Kentucky, I think at least partly because of the coach's growing confidence in Sean White.)

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Da Vinci couldn't paint the Mona Lisa with mud and toilet paper.

True, but I know some nuts in Biggin who'd give it a shot.

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So, I have a question... We saw last Saturday what losing Chubb did to UGa's offense, which wasn't gangbusters with him. But Chubb was a difference maker for their offense. It was always possible that he might break a big play. So, is that comparable to what happened to us when Carl got hurt? We knew the D wasn't going to be super, but Carl could be a difference maker, the one who could make a big play on D (maybe even like Nick in 2010). My point is that we recognize what happens when an offensive difference maker goes down (where would LSU be without Fournette?). But I'm not sure we do that with the D. Of course the goal is to have more than 1 difference maker.

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Lets see what next season holds before we judge Muschamp. He also did not have a completely new D staff with which to work with. Maybe that will change.

wde

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First of all, if Will Muschamp were to fail at Auburn, I wouldn't put it on him. At all. That would be evidence enough for me that the problem is indeed Auburn, and not all of these good defensive coordinators who only fail here. (And it's not Gus's offense, either. Even when he does get the HUNH, that's not what makes guys miss tackles, lose receivers and fail to get push on the DL.) Muschamp is as much of a given as you're going to get in college football. If he doesn't get it done, then it's time for the fans to vote with their wallets, so to speak.

That said, all I'm looking for is improvement. I don't think it realistic to hope for a "good" defense this season. Muschamp could do the best single season's worth of coaching in history and still only get this defense up to "mediocre". No, what I'm looking for is for young guys to learn from their mistakes and get better as the season goes on- as others have pointed out, the upper classmen who already had 3-4 years of bad habits drilled into them pretty much are what they are at this point- and for the defense's overall performance as a unit to improve. Most of all, I want these guys playing in the 4th quarter as if they want and expect to win the game. I see those things happening. (It's what I see out of the team overall, and that's why this team is NOT like the 2012 team.)

And I agree with Muschamp that the stats don't tell the whole story. Everybody keeps bringing up all the 3rd-and-longs we surrendered to Kentucky, but that tells me that we were consistently getting Kentucky in 3rd-and-long situations. That's usually a result of 10 guys doing their job, not a bad game plan. That's improvement.

Instead of giving Muschamp a grade, I'll ask myself if I think Auburn has the best man for the job. And the answer is a resounding "yes".

Finally he should be judged on how much change we see in the overall defense at the end of the year. That is yet to be determined.

Agreed.

I've been hoping for a mediocre D for 5 years or more.

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You can't rank a DC on his first year. It isn't ever pretty.

Agreed. And it hasn't even been a year....

So we change DCs every couple years, change defenses....and then people wonder why recruiting does not improve on the defensive side of the ball....makes me wonder about some of our fans....

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It's not how many stars players x+y+z add up to be. Team cohesion is a group dynamic. It's dynamic in that it's a multiplier of force. And it's an organism unto it's self. Corporations pay big bucks and go to great lengths trying to instill this quality in their work force. Most everyone knows that two accommodating people can often get more done collectively than the sum of either alone. However the opposite of this not always everyone doing their own thing, but sometimes a fragmentation into segments.

IMO this is what we're seeing at the moment. The creation of one organism (defense vs offense) and not some mere collection or arrangement of bodies. And that despite having good ingredients... they're all mixed up and still disjointed to a certain degree... and largely due to the synergy's (and philosophies) of three coordinators (Roof-Johnson-Muschamp). Sure it's about containment, it's about tackling, it's about technique. and about desire. However there's some residual mental drag (IQ's) along with some incomplete physical learning, to go along with the almost but not quite right mix of minds, bodies, and souls. Similar to music where it's muscle memory, as well as theory, and most folks require working on both to be good.... for few are born ready made.... and there's no substitute for doing the right thing over and over. And a large part is discovering exactly what you need more work on. I'm thinking this is where CWM is at, and perhaps he may of not realized exactly how far back he had to go, before going forward.

Regardless - it makes little to no sense to be having this (failure or not) discussion dead in the middle of the mix. It's as far to the end of the season as it's been from the start. And just because it wasn't right with game one, two or six, doesn't mean the final result might still not be somewhat tastily done.

That is just too much for this forum to handle

Well, I - for one - thought it was brilliant. :hellyeah:

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Let's get this off the table. The only thing a spread team does, is potentially expose the defense to more possessions. Our offense was averaging 9-10 possessions per game. Turnovers made that even worse. The mindset wasn't to have a season one 1 top10 defense. We just wanted something top50 to compliment what we thought we would have on offense.

Well the offense hasn't been able to help out the defense and the defense did enough to carry us through 2 games of 3 turnovers on offense. Now that the offense is finding its ground, the defense can continue to grow with a bit less stress.

On defense, you can't blitz every play when the offense is bad and the game is on the line. You have to keep everything in front of you and force the team to either risk a pass into coverage or keep it underneath. Yeah it sucks to watch, but the defense will get better as our young guys get better.

I'll plead guilty to that. :( Who'da thunk? :dunno:

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I suppose I could just cut and paste this from all the other Muschamp threads.

Coach Muschamp just got here. He's got a big job to do.

Stop the whining and LET THE MAN WORK!

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First of all, if Will Muschamp were to fail at Auburn, I wouldn't put it on him. At all. That would be evidence enough for me that the problem is indeed Auburn, and not all of these good defensive coordinators who only fail here. (And it's not Gus's offense, either. Even when he does get the HUNH, that's not what makes guys miss tackles, lose receivers and fail to get push on the DL.) Muschamp is as much of a given as you're going to get in college football. If he doesn't get it done, then it's time for the fans to vote with their wallets, so to speak.

That said, all I'm looking for is improvement. I don't think it realistic to hope for a "good" defense this season. Muschamp could do the best single season's worth of coaching in history and still only get this defense up to "mediocre". No, what I'm looking for is for young guys to learn from their mistakes and get better as the season goes on- as others have pointed out, the upper classmen who already had 3-4 years of bad habits drilled into them pretty much are what they are at this point- and for the defense's overall performance as a unit to improve. Most of all, I want these guys playing in the 4th quarter as if they want and expect to win the game. I see those things happening. (It's what I see out of the team overall, and that's why this team is NOT like the 2012 team.)

And I agree with Muschamp that the stats don't tell the whole story. Everybody keeps bringing up all the 3rd-and-longs we surrendered to Kentucky, but that tells me that we were consistently getting Kentucky in 3rd-and-long situations. That's usually a result of 10 guys doing their job, not a bad game plan. That's improvement.

Instead of giving Muschamp a grade, I'll ask myself if I think Auburn has the best man for the job. And the answer is a resounding "yes".

Finally he should be judged on how much change we see in the overall defense at the end of the year. That is yet to be determined.

Agreed.

I've been hoping for a mediocre D for 5 years or more.

:laugh: That's good.

Now that we are finally about to get your wish, the wheels fall off the offense. :slapfh:

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Muschamp inherited a good Florida defense. It's not like he transformed them from a bad defense to a good defense. They were good on defense under Urban Meyer like Titan mentioned about teams having good defenses while having spread offenses.

But he improved on that defense. By year two he'd taken them to a defense giving up almost 40 yds less on the ground, and only 14.5 points per game (down from 21.3 ppg Urban's last year). And let's remember, Muschamp's defenses at Florida did it with little to no help from the offense. That was not the case when Urban was there.

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Muschamp so far? Way, way, way, way better than expected. Every AU fan should be very happy. If the offense would have shown up we could have been 5-1 at worst. When we get a real OC AU will be much better. Hope that any school will hire RL.

Could the NFL be calling GM? Hope so. Why? Into the 3rd year and the eye candy offense is just that eye candy. Every DC can see that we run the same few plays with the same keys. We put a man in motion that almost always runs away from the direction of the play. Hmmm? One less blocker and a key as to where the play is going. That is hard to grasp for DCs that have been studying film for 20 years. GM's offense only works when AU has a QB with 4.3 speed and can pass. Hmmm? All you have to do is recruit one Heisman candidate to come play the zone read rather than a pro-style offense. How is that working this year? How many of the 128 schools have one of those? Any? This team has talent and some heart. Coaching staff is sorely lacking on offense. We should be averaging 40 a game. If you play scared, kicking field goal after field goal in the red zone!!!, it infects the entire team. Takes more than one trick to be at the top in the SEC West. It has only cost us $10,000,000+ to figure this out. JJ should have really opened up the check book in 2013 and signed a proven winner. He was only $100,000,000 and 160 miles away. We would have 2 more NC, another Heisman winner, and the toothless group would be crying in their warm beer in the back of their red pickups with their sisters.

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Muschamp so far? Way, way, way, way better than expected. Every AU fan should be very happy. If the offense would have shown up we could have been 5-1 at worst. When we get a real OC AU will be much better. Hope that any school will hire RL.

Could the NFL be calling GM? Hope so. Why? Into the 3rd year and the eye candy offense is just that eye candy. Every DC can see that we run the same few plays with the same keys. We put a man in motion that almost always runs away from the direction of the play. Hmmm? One less blocker and a key as to where the play is going. That is hard to grasp for DCs that have been studying film for 20 years. GM's offense only works when AU has a QB with 4.3 speed and can pass. Hmmm? All you have to do is recruit one Heisman candidate to come play the zone read rather than a pro-style offense. How is that working this year? How many of the 128 schools have one of those? Any? This team has talent and some heart. Coaching staff is sorely lacking on offense. We should be averaging 40 a game. If you play scared, kicking field goal after field goal in the red zone!!!, it infects the entire team. Takes more than one trick to be at the top in the SEC West. It has only cost us $10,000,000+ to figure this out. JJ should have really opened up the check book in 2013 and signed a proven winner. He was only $100,000,000 and 160 miles away. We would have 2 more NC, another Heisman winner, and the toothless group would be crying in their warm beer in the back of their red pickups with their sisters.

SOoooooooooooo.............................

(1)We should fire the guy that has given Auburn the best offensive years we've ever had because 1 year he didn't live up to your expectations and average 40 points a game...right? Makes sense

(2)We should replace him with a head coach that never once in his tenure as a HC has averaged 40 points a game? Sound logic there

(3)We would have 2 more NCs and another heisman winner with Saban for the last 2 years? He hasn't won a NC since Gus has been at AU and coached 1 heisman in his entire career (same amount as Gus and 0 in the time frame you are discussing). More sound logic.

(4) Defense is great, offense is to blame? defense has gone backwards in almost every single statistical category this year from the train wreck it was last year. Did we look slightly better in the last game? Yes, but we gave up 500 yards to KY. We won that game on offense by outscoring KY. Doesn't fit your narrative? My bad

(5) Drunk posting at midnight does not work out well for you. If this is what you intend to bring in the future, please go back to al.com

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I'm disappointed in the Auburn fans that are so quick to turn on Muschamp because he took over a bad D and hasn't made the miraculous improvement they were all hoping for after only 6 games in. Give the man some time. He knows what he's doing.

The offense is sputtering still, but has shown signs of life, especially with the youngsters and Barber. Things will get better, but maybe not much better this season. We have a lot of holes to fill in on both sides of the ball.

War Eagle gentlemen!

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Muschamp so far? Way, way, way, way better than expected. Every AU fan should be very happy. If the offense would have shown up we could have been 5-1 at worst. When we get a real OC AU will be much better. Hope that any school will hire RL.

Could the NFL be calling GM? Hope so. Why? Into the 3rd year and the eye candy offense is just that eye candy. Every DC can see that we run the same few plays with the same keys. We put a man in motion that almost always runs away from the direction of the play. Hmmm? One less blocker and a key as to where the play is going. That is hard to grasp for DCs that have been studying film for 20 years. GM's offense only works when AU has a QB with 4.3 speed and can pass. Hmmm? All you have to do is recruit one Heisman candidate to come play the zone read rather than a pro-style offense. How is that working this year? How many of the 128 schools have one of those? Any? This team has talent and some heart. Coaching staff is sorely lacking on offense. We should be averaging 40 a game. If you play scared, kicking field goal after field goal in the red zone!!!, it infects the entire team. Takes more than one trick to be at the top in the SEC West. It has only cost us $10,000,000+ to figure this out. JJ should have really opened up the check book in 2013 and signed a proven winner. He was only $100,000,000 and 160 miles away. We would have 2 more NC, another Heisman winner, and the toothless group would be crying in their warm beer in the back of their red pickups with their sisters.

iWKad22.jpg

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