Expectations by Cubelic

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

Disagree,if you don't have high expectations and goals you will never be more than a middle of the road program.We should expect strive to win championships at Auburn.Auburn desevers it as much as anyone else and is as capable of competing and winning championships as any other program.

Disagree

Edits above better describe my position.

[Tiger 8,818]

^ Shula was fired for a reason. They were not a good team.

They had talent. Shula wasn't a terrible recruiter. Classes were 24, 18, 11.

Ah you were referring to the talent. I was referring to the product on the field. Gotcha, I misunderstood. I think Shula's classes were heavy on skill players and not so much in the trenches though. What was Saban's first year record at Bama? They barely made a bowl right? I can't remember.

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

My next question:

How can this happen at bama, but not at Auburn? What is different?

What's the culprit behind the struggles in 2015? It's a hodge-podge of trouble. From offense to defense, execution and personnel.

http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2015/11/what_has_gone_wrong_at_auburn.html#incart_social_feature

Hard as it is to believe sometimes, the scores of a football game don’t matter as much as the things that have always made Auburn different from other schools.

http://auburn.247sports.com/Article/Mike-Marshall-What-Auburn-is-all-about-40816136

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

I think that we need to start understanding that this is a business and that most of these kids that come to a major university that are three, four, or five stars are using said university as a stepping stone to the league. Most of these guys don't grow up with a dream of playing for Auburn. AU should treat these guys as such and sign the max every year, trim the underperforming to get to 85, and help those that are cut to land somewhere else.

So wither whither would you have sent Mr. Coleman?

Edit, spelling ooops

[WarTim 3,456]

Much of this comes down to recruiting. It is far easier to recruit if you are a state school-- Alabama, Florida, LSU, Georgia. Outside of Alabama and the states surrounding it, how many players even know where Auburn is? You only have to hear ' the University of Auburn' about 100 times to realize this.

Auburn will find consistency by building its brand. Auburn's brand is family. The players who get it become Auburn men and women, and we are proud of them. The ones who don't, most of them we really didn't want anyway. If we did, we would be Alabama. Yes, a few good ones go some place else. With consistency, Auburn will be able to recruit the players it needs to win the right way.

We have a football coach who believes in Auburn's brand and promotes it with everything he does. Is he the most experienced coach in America? No. Is he a win-at-all-costs coach? No. But, you can judge the quality of a leader by the people around him. Will Muschamp returned to Auburn because he believed in the brand. There is a reason nobody besides Smart has stayed with Saban for very long.

It is obvious that Malzahn is still learning on the job. Everyone should have realized this would be the case when he was hired. It takes time to get a solid staff in place. Gus deserves a little more patience on the part of the fans. Yes, some of the trends are disturbing, but they are being addressed. Despite preseason expectations, the team is still young and largely inexperienced. And the defense needs a major infusion of talent which will take years to develop.

You can't live the way Saban has for very long. Ever read Dorian Gray? Alabama will eventually pay for having hired Saban, despite the short-term rewards. Think Bill Curry had trouble following Bear Bryant? The guy who follows Saban is going to be skewered by the fan base every time he makes a mistake.

At the very least, Gus Malzahn deserves a couple more seasons to get Auburn to a place where it can compete for the SEC on a regular basis. I am certain the defense will improve steadily under Muschamp's tutelage. I am equally certain that Malzahn can get the offense back on track. 2015 is just one season. Neither Malzahn or Muschamp walked into an ideal situation. It is going to take some time and a lot of hard work to straighten it out.

Great post! WDE !!!

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

Fortune favors the bold. - Pliny the Elder

Fortune favors the prepared mind. - Dr. Louis Pasteur

No team will always be in contention. If we prepare well and endeavor to act boldly, good things will happen when the opportunities arise.

^ WDE

[WmAU84 0]

.

We spend and invest for top 10 so that is the legit and reasonable expectation. The "down and rebuilding" year should be nothing worse than an 8-4 year (regular season) with the next year back to top 10 competing for it all level.

So I do not agree with the article in question at all - or the mentality expressed in that article.

[AU64 10,122]

I will ask my question again:

I'm really taken by this argument that if you want to win badly enough...you just make the decision to do it.

So again....what should AU be doing that it is not doing to reach this point of being a top 10 team most years ?

There seems to be a sense among some people that AU is not trying hard enough.....or what?

[DAG 33,977]

I will ask my question again:

I'm really taken by this argument that if you want to win badly enough...you just make the decision to do it.

So again....what should AU be doing that it is not doing to reach this point of being a top 10 team most years ?

There seems to be a sense among some people that AU is not trying hard enough.....or what?

Not maximizing their talent. You can call it player development or whatever, but for some reason the talent here doesn't seem to pan out more or less. And yes before anybody post it, I already know about attrition rates.

[Win4AU 4,052]

^ Shula was fired for a reason. They were not a good team.

They had talent. Shula wasn't a terrible recruiter. Classes were 24, 18, 11.

Ah you were referring to the talent. I was referring to the product on the field. Gotcha, I misunderstood. I think Shula's classes were heavy on skill players and not so much in the trenches though. What was Saban's first year record at Bama? They barely made a bowl right? I can't remember.

I want to say 7-5 independence bowl 1st year. Bama was under probation for much of Shulas years which probably hurt recruiting somewhat. The bigger point I was making is the consistency since Saban with recruiting and winning. Auburn has been a top 10 recruiting team going back to Tubs early 2000 teams. There is no reason Auburn can't mimick the success based on recruiting alone.

[AU64 10,122]

I will ask my question again:

I'm really taken by this argument that if you want to win badly enough...you just make the decision to do it.

So again....what should AU be doing that it is not doing to reach this point of being a top 10 team most years ?

There seems to be a sense among some people that AU is not trying hard enough.....or what?

Not maximizing their talent. You can call it player development or whatever, but for some reason the talent here doesn't seem to pan out more or less. And yes before anybody post it, I already know about attrition rates.

So you saying we need to bring in a bunch of new coaches.....again?

[subterranean_jack 112]

Too many are equating recruiting stars with player development. Auburn's defense is loaded with 4 star players, yet would anyone say this is a highly talented defense? Stars equate merely to a recruiting wonk's estimate of a teenager's potential, not a football coach's experienced assessment . Yes, measurables are one part of the overall picture, but desire, maturity, and work ethic are just as important and a lot harder to translate into something as simplistic as a 5-star grade.

An earlier post elaborated on how many different defensive systems have been implemented over the past few seasons. With so much turnover, what should we expect at this point? Byron Cowart was the top recruit in the nation per the recruiting experts, but he didn't walk on the field and immediately become an All-American, although this is what quite a few expected. This is the SEC. Freshman rarely have any real impact, except for a handful of running backs. Malzahn could have recruited lights out in 2014 and 2015, and the product on the field would not have been all that much different. In most cases, it takes time for players to develop. With so much past turnover in players, coaches, and systems, it is going to take time to build consistency.

Just looking at the photographs of Muschamp's face as he was assessing the defensive talent before the bowl game, it was obvious he was horrified at what he saw. Best case scenario, it is going to take at least 2 more recruiting cycles to substantially improve the defense. If Muschamp stays however, the defense assuredly will improve. I have no doubt of that. If you watch closely, you will see that some players have improved on the defensive side this year, even though the overall product is really no better than last year, maybe even worse after the players have been subjected to so many different systems. It is going to take more than one off-season to build a championship-caliber defense.

On offense, it is clear that Malzahn was counting on Jeremy Johnson to be a steadying leader and for the chemistry of the line to develop more quickly than it has. It is also obvious just how much Malzahn needs a QB like Watson or Harris to be successful. Maybe Woody or Narcisse will be that guy. Clearly, there is more talent on the offensive side than the defensive side. But, there are a lot of new players there too. I see nothing so wrong that another year of conditioning and coaching can't fix.

Patience, people.

If you are a long-time Auburn fan, then you already know a lot about patience. It is ingrained in your soul by now. Malzahn is still green. He is a smart guy though and a leader. He is still learning on the job, but he will figure this out. Please realize that some of the problems are so difficult that they cannot be fixed quickly. This is the blunt truth of the situation.

Auburn does not have the recruiting advantages of other SEC powerhouses. The depth is just not there at several positions. With all the turnover, that is what you should expect at this juncture. With consistency, players will be more apt to trust in a program like Auburn. Not to say that the staff may not need some refining, but making another round of wholesale changes only 2.5 years into Malzahn's tenure is only going to further damage Auburn's reputation.

Auburn will be good again. Malzahn is the coach to get us there.

Relax Take a breath. Enjoy the fall weather and the changing leaves. Take a walk with your loved ones. Realize there is more to life than football.

And if you need to root for a championship team, then feel free to invest some of that pent-up emotion in LSU Saturday evening. Watching LSU end Alabama's hopes for another championship will certainly make us all feel just a little bit better.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

IMO, John is 100% spot on with his assessment.

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

Too many are equating recruiting stars with player development. Auburn's defense is loaded with 4 star players, yet would anyone say this is a highly talented defense? Stars equate merely to a recruiting wonk's estimate of a teenager's potential, not a football coach's experienced assessment . Yes, measurables are one part of the overall picture, but desire, maturity, and work ethic are just as important and a lot harder to translate into something as simplistic as a 5-star grade.

An earlier post elaborated on how many different defensive systems have been implemented over the past few seasons. With so much turnover, what should we expect at this point? Byron Cowart was the top recruit in the nation per the recruiting experts, but he didn't walk on the field and immediately become an All-American, although this is what quite a few expected. This is the SEC. Freshman rarely have any real impact, except for a handful of running backs. Malzahn could have recruited lights out in 2014 and 2015, and the product on the field would not have been all that much different. In most cases, it takes time for players to develop. With so much past turnover in players, coaches, and systems, it is going to take time to build consistency.

Just looking at the photographs of Muschamp's face as he was assessing the defensive talent before the bowl game, it was obvious he was horrified at what he saw. Best case scenario, it is going to take at least 2 more recruiting cycles to substantially improve the defense. If Muschamp stays however, the defense assuredly will improve. I have no doubt of that. If you watch closely, you will see that some players have improved on the defensive side this year, even though the overall product is really no better than last year, maybe even worse after the players have been subjected to so many different systems. It is going to take more than one off-season to build a championship-caliber defense.

On offense, it is clear that Malzahn was counting on Jeremy Johnson to be a steadying leader and for the chemistry of the line to develop more quickly than it has. It is also obvious just how much Malzahn needs a QB like Watson or Harris to be successful. Maybe Woody or Narcisse will be that guy. Clearly, there is more talent on the offensive side than the defensive side. But, there are a lot of new players there too. I see nothing so wrong that another year of conditioning and coaching can't fix.

Patience, people.

If you are a long-time Auburn fan, then you already know a lot about patience. It is ingrained in your soul by now. Malzahn is still green. He is a smart guy though and a leader. He is still learning on the job, but he will figure this out. Please realize that some of the problems are so difficult that they cannot be fixed quickly. This is the blunt truth of the situation.

Auburn does not have the recruiting advantages of other SEC powerhouses. The depth is just not there at several positions. With all the turnover, that is what you should expect at this juncture. With consistency, players will be more apt to trust in a program like Auburn. Not to say that the staff may not need some refining, but making another round of wholesale changes only 2.5 years into Malzahn's tenure is only going to further damage Auburn's reputation.

Auburn will be good again. Malzahn is the coach to get us there.

Relax Take a breath. Enjoy the fall weather and the changing leaves. Take a walk with your loved ones. Realize there is more to life than football.

And if you need to root for a championship team, then feel free to invest some of that pent-up emotion in LSU Saturday evening. Watching LSU end Alabama's hopes for another championship will certainly make us all feel just a little bit better.

Or, at least, make my neighbors feel a little bit worse? Misery finds company where it can.

[doc4aday 1,887]

I am glad to find out that this Cubelic is not Cole. With this established, I think this young man has totally missed the boat with regard to Auburn's football history. We do not bow down to bammer; not now & not ever. We are War Damn Eagles, and do not take 2nd to anyone. I hate the attitude JC has of Auburn, and he should apologize to all Auburn fans on this site.

[alexava 6,973]

I am glad to find out that this Cubelic is not Cole. With this established, I think this young man has totally missed the boat with regard to Auburn's football history. We do not bow down to bammer; not now & not ever. We are War Damn Eagles, and do not take 2nd to anyone. I hate the attitude JC has of Auburn, and he should apologize to all Auburn fans on this site.

brothers

[AU64 10,122]

Thanks sub_jack...good to know there are some folks out there who see things clearly....I live in fear that the crowd that is willing to clean house on the coaching staff after a disappointing season or two might actually be gaining traction with those destructive views.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

Patience, people.

If you are a long-time Auburn fan, then you already know a lot about patience. It is ingrained in your soul by now. Malzahn is still green. He is a smart guy though and a leader. He is still learning on the job, but he will figure this out. Please realize that some of the problems are so difficult that they cannot be fixed quickly. This is the blunt truth of the situation.

Auburn does not have the recruiting advantages of other SEC powerhouses. The depth is just not there at several positions. With all the turnover, that is what you should expect at this juncture. With consistency, players will be more apt to trust in a program like Auburn. Not to say that the staff may not need some refining, but making another round of wholesale changes only 2.5 years into Malzahn's tenure is only going to further damage Auburn's reputation.

Auburn will be good again. Malzahn is the coach to get us there.

Relax Take a breath. Enjoy the fall weather and the changing leaves. Take a walk with your loved ones. Realize there is more to life than football.

And if you need to root for a championship team, then feel free to invest some of that pent-up emotion in LSU Saturday evening. Watching LSU end Alabama's hopes for another championship will certainly make us all feel just a little bit better.

I can be patient if we weren't spending so much money to lose and be in last place in the SEC West. Instead we keep spending more money and seem to not get results for it.

The results so far are mixed on Malzahn. I'm not ready to get rid of him but he's done nothing to prove he's the answer or the right coach either. He'll get another year and we'll find out next year if Malzahn can get us back to national relevance and competing to win the SEC West.

Alabama losing does nothing to make me feel better about Auburn losing. I used to hate Alabama and want them to lose but now after Auburn has been through so much losing and misery since 2012, even Alabama losing doesn't do much for me. I'm going to be pulling for Alabama to beat LSU.

[FoundationEagle 637]

Patience, people.

If you are a long-time Auburn fan, then you already know a lot about patience. It is ingrained in your soul by now. Malzahn is still green. He is a smart guy though and a leader. He is still learning on the job, but he will figure this out. Please realize that some of the problems are so difficult that they cannot be fixed quickly. This is the blunt truth of the situation.

Auburn does not have the recruiting advantages of other SEC powerhouses. The depth is just not there at several positions. With all the turnover, that is what you should expect at this juncture. With consistency, players will be more apt to trust in a program like Auburn. Not to say that the staff may not need some refining, but making another round of wholesale changes only 2.5 years into Malzahn's tenure is only going to further damage Auburn's reputation.

Auburn will be good again. Malzahn is the coach to get us there.

Relax Take a breath. Enjoy the fall weather and the changing leaves. Take a walk with your loved ones. Realize there is more to life than football.

And if you need to root for a championship team, then feel free to invest some of that pent-up emotion in LSU Saturday evening. Watching LSU end Alabama's hopes for another championship will certainly make us all feel just a little bit better.

I can be patient if we weren't spending so much money to lose and be in last place in the SEC West. Instead we keep spending more money and seem to not get results for it.

The results so far are mixed on Malzahn. I'm not ready to get rid of him but he's done nothing to prove he's the answer or the right coach either. He'll get another year and we'll find out next year if Malzahn can get us back to national relevance and competing to win the SEC West.

Alabama losing does nothing to make me feel better about Auburn losing. I used to hate Alabama and want them to lose but now after Auburn has been through so much losing and misery since 2012, even Alabama losing doesn't do much for me. I'm going to be pulling for Alabama to beat LSU.

If money is the issue, we pay Malzahn the going rate for the very bottom of the SEC West. I believe he makes 4.1 mil/yr whereas the lowest paid is 4 mil/yr. I haven't looked it all up for entire staffs, but I'd guess if you added our coaching salaries up and added up bamas, they'd have us by a good 2 mil./yr. if not 3

[DAG 33,977]

I will ask my question again:

I'm really taken by this argument that if you want to win badly enough...you just make the decision to do it.

So again....what should AU be doing that it is not doing to reach this point of being a top 10 team most years ?

There seems to be a sense among some people that AU is not trying hard enough.....or what?

Not maximizing their talent. You can call it player development or whatever, but for some reason the talent here doesn't seem to pan out more or less. And yes before anybody post it, I already know about attrition rates.

So you saying we need to bring in a bunch of new coaches.....again?

That is exactly what I said..reading comprehension must be hard. I am saying the coaches we have need to do a better job at maximizing the people they have recruited. I don't get why when you provide constructive criticism here, it is misconstrued as people saying fire the head coach.

[DAG 33,977]

Patience, people.

If you are a long-time Auburn fan, then you already know a lot about patience. It is ingrained in your soul by now. Malzahn is still green. He is a smart guy though and a leader. He is still learning on the job, but he will figure this out. Please realize that some of the problems are so difficult that they cannot be fixed quickly. This is the blunt truth of the situation.

Auburn does not have the recruiting advantages of other SEC powerhouses. The depth is just not there at several positions. With all the turnover, that is what you should expect at this juncture. With consistency, players will be more apt to trust in a program like Auburn. Not to say that the staff may not need some refining, but making another round of wholesale changes only 2.5 years into Malzahn's tenure is only going to further damage Auburn's reputation.

Auburn will be good again. Malzahn is the coach to get us there.

Relax Take a breath. Enjoy the fall weather and the changing leaves. Take a walk with your loved ones. Realize there is more to life than football.

And if you need to root for a championship team, then feel free to invest some of that pent-up emotion in LSU Saturday evening. Watching LSU end Alabama's hopes for another championship will certainly make us all feel just a little bit better.

I can be patient if we weren't spending so much money to lose and be in last place in the SEC West. Instead we keep spending more money and seem to not get results for it.

The results so far are mixed on Malzahn. I'm not ready to get rid of him but he's done nothing to prove he's the answer or the right coach either. He'll get another year and we'll find out next year if Malzahn can get us back to national relevance and competing to win the SEC West.

Alabama losing does nothing to make me feel better about Auburn losing. I used to hate Alabama and want them to lose but now after Auburn has been through so much losing and misery since 2012, even Alabama losing doesn't do much for me. I'm going to be pulling for Alabama to beat LSU.

Honestly, who freaking cares about Alabama at this point. We have our own issues. That is such a stupid mentality. I agree with you. What happens to Alabama means absolutely nothing to me as AU fan.

[Shift 350]

Much of this comes down to recruiting. It is far easier to recruit if you are a state school-- Alabama, Florida, LSU, Georgia. Outside of Alabama and the states surrounding it, how many players even know where Auburn is? You only have to hear ' the University of Auburn' about 100 times to realize this.

Auburn will find consistency by building its brand. Auburn's brand is family. The players who get it become Auburn men and women, and we are proud of them. The ones who don't, most of them we really didn't want anyway. If we did, we would be Alabama. Yes, a few good ones go some place else. With consistency, Auburn will be able to recruit the players it needs to win the right way.

We have a football coach who believes in Auburn's brand and promotes it with everything he does. Is he the most experienced coach in America? No. Is he a win-at-all-costs coach? No. But, you can judge the quality of a leader by the people around him. Will Muschamp returned to Auburn because he believed in the brand. There is a reason nobody besides Smart has stayed with Saban for very long.

It is obvious that Malzahn is still learning on the job. Everyone should have realized this would be the case when he was hired. It takes time to get a solid staff in place. Gus deserves a little more patience on the part of the fans. Yes, some of the trends are disturbing, but they are being addressed. Despite preseason expectations, the team is still young and largely inexperienced. And the defense needs a major infusion of talent which will take years to develop.

You can't live the way Saban has for very long. Ever read Dorian Gray? Alabama will eventually pay for having hired Saban, despite the short-term rewards. Think Bill Curry had trouble following Bear Bryant? The guy who follows Saban is going to be skewered by the fan base every time he makes a mistake.

At the very least, Gus Malzahn deserves a couple more seasons to get Auburn to a place where it can compete for the SEC on a regular basis. I am certain the defense will improve steadily under Muschamp's tutelage. I am equally certain that Malzahn can get the offense back on track. 2015 is just one season. Neither Malzahn or Muschamp walked into an ideal situation. It is going to take some time and a lot of hard work to straighten it out.

Agree with most of this except for the young team part. So tired of hearing this excuse. Other teams simply reload each season and don't see as much drop off as we do. Numerous freshman and sophomores are playing well this season. Sorry, but I'm not buying the young and inexperienced bit.

[AU64 10,122]

Much of this comes down to recruiting. It is far easier to recruit if you are a state school-- Alabama, Florida, LSU, Georgia. Outside of Alabama and the states surrounding it, how many players even know where Auburn is? You only have to hear ' the University of Auburn' about 100 times to realize this.

Auburn will find consistency by building its brand. Auburn's brand is family. The players who get it become Auburn men and women, and we are proud of them. The ones who don't, most of them we really didn't want anyway. If we did, we would be Alabama. Yes, a few good ones go some place else. With consistency, Auburn will be able to recruit the players it needs to win the right way.

We have a football coach who believes in Auburn's brand and promotes it with everything he does. Is he the most experienced coach in America? No. Is he a win-at-all-costs coach? No. But, you can judge the quality of a leader by the people around him. Will Muschamp returned to Auburn because he believed in the brand. There is a reason nobody besides Smart has stayed with Saban for very long.

It is obvious that Malzahn is still learning on the job. Everyone should have realized this would be the case when he was hired. It takes time to get a solid staff in place. Gus deserves a little more patience on the part of the fans. Yes, some of the trends are disturbing, but they are being addressed. Despite preseason expectations, the team is still young and largely inexperienced. And the defense needs a major infusion of talent which will take years to develop.

You can't live the way Saban has for very long. Ever read Dorian Gray? Alabama will eventually pay for having hired Saban, despite the short-term rewards. Think Bill Curry had trouble following Bear Bryant? The guy who follows Saban is going to be skewered by the fan base every time he makes a mistake.

At the very least, Gus Malzahn deserves a couple more seasons to get Auburn to a place where it can compete for the SEC on a regular basis. I am certain the defense will improve steadily under Muschamp's tutelage. I am equally certain that Malzahn can get the offense back on track. 2015 is just one season. Neither Malzahn or Muschamp walked into an ideal situation. It is going to take some time and a lot of hard work to straighten it out.

Agree with most of this except for the young team part. So tired of hearing this excuse. Other teams simply reload each season and don't see as much drop off as we do. Numerous freshman and sophomores are playing well this season. Sorry, but I'm not buying the young and inexperienced bit.

What other teams just re-load every year ? Not sure what time frame you are looking at.....but my gosh, if you look at the coaching turnover in college football every year you have to realize that teams all over the place are hoping to find "that guy" who will get them into national ratings...either for the first time, or back after having a few bad seasons. I think back to the "traditional powers list" someone posted and recall Michigan, Southern Cal, Texas and a handful of others who are struggling....and there is Oregon...about a mirror image of AU....except for the championship...over the past 5 or 6 years .....and now reloading.

bama seems to be everyone's measuring stick....which I understand I guess....but even there, go back beyond NS and they were all over the place, firing coaches every few years and mostly unranked...and on probation. Two shots at the BCS championship in 5 years....other than "you know who"...not many schools have a record like that?

[lost 452]

As a Pastor I can see how Cole 's message has been largely not heard while many have gotten hung up on one point he made. The overall message----- what was he saying. I heard this. We are Auburn, not bama and as Auburn we should have goals, attitudes, and methods of Auburn men. The past and future of Auburn is built on doing things the right way. That is in winning and losing. Because to be a Winner, you have to learn to lose and to rise up from that loss.

[Weegle777 78]

As a Pastor I can see how Cole 's message has been largely not heard while many have gotten hung up on one point he made. The overall message----- what was he saying. I heard this. We are Auburn, not bama and as Auburn we should have goals, attitudes, and methods of Auburn men. The past and future of Auburn is built on doing things the right way. That is in winning and losing. Because to be a Winner, you have to learn to lose and to rise up from that loss.

What message? Who wants to learn how to lose?