Robert E. Lee Birthday

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

On this day in 1807, Robert E Lee was born. Like MLK he wasn't perfect but he was a man of great character and stood up for what he strongly believed in.....state's rights.Many here will disagree and call him names. That's OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My CF is up for the only day I ever fly it. In fact during my recent move to Auburn, I lost mine. So my neighbor, who moved here from Utah, bought me a new one.....and one for himself.. All my neighbors say they like it and respect REL. It's the people I live among that count.

Thank you REL for being a part of my heritage along with a lot of other great men.

[cole256 17,085]

He wasn't always right.....

[The Freak 2,612]

No one is.

And is "Roberet" short for Raspberry Beret?

[TexasTiger 16,079]

On this day in 1807, Robert E Lee was born. Like MLK he wasn't perfect but he was a man of great character and stood up for what he strongly believed in.....state's rights.Many here will disagree and call him names. That's OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My CF is up for the only day I ever fly it. In fact during my recent move to Auburn, I lost mine. So my neighbor, who moved here from Utah, bought me a new one.....and one for himself.. All my neighbors say they like it and respect REL. It's the people I live among that count.

Thank you REL for being a part of my heritage along with a lot of other great men.

Will you be celebrating Benedict Arnold's birthday, too?

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

On this day in 1807, Robert E Lee was born. Like MLK he wasn't perfect but he was a man of great character and stood up for what he strongly believed in.....state's rights.Many here will disagree and call him names. That's OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My CF is up for the only day I ever fly it. In fact during my recent move to Auburn, I lost mine. So my neighbor, who moved here from Utah, bought me a new one.....and one for himself.. All my neighbors say they like it and respect REL. It's the people I live among that count.

Thank you REL for being a part of my heritage along with a lot of other great men.

Will you be celebrating Benedict Arnold's birthday, too?

Trying to compare the two just doesn't match. If you think so please explain. I had relatives fight on both sides of the Civil War. Each had their own reasons. R.E. Lee was highly thought of back then and he had to make a difficult decision on whether to stay with the union or go with his state. This was a difficult time in this country.

[TitanTiger 22,262]

He wasn't always right.....

I see what you did there.

[TexasTiger 16,079]

On this day in 1807, Robert E Lee was born. Like MLK he wasn't perfect but he was a man of great character and stood up for what he strongly believed in.....state's rights.Many here will disagree and call him names. That's OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My CF is up for the only day I ever fly it. In fact during my recent move to Auburn, I lost mine. So my neighbor, who moved here from Utah, bought me a new one.....and one for himself.. All my neighbors say they like it and respect REL. It's the people I live among that count.

Thank you REL for being a part of my heritage along with a lot of other great men.

Will you be celebrating Benedict Arnold's birthday, too?

Trying to compare the two just doesn't match. If you think so please explain. I had relatives fight on both sides of the Civil War. Each had their own reasons. R.E. Lee was highly thought of back then and he had to make a difficult decision on whether to stay with the union or go with his state. This was a difficult time in this country.

Which one led an armed rebellion against the USA?

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

On this day in 1807, Robert E Lee was born. Like MLK he wasn't perfect but he was a man of great character and stood up for what he strongly believed in.....state's rights.Many here will disagree and call him names. That's OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My CF is up for the only day I ever fly it. In fact during my recent move to Auburn, I lost mine. So my neighbor, who moved here from Utah, bought me a new one.....and one for himself.. All my neighbors say they like it and respect REL. It's the people I live among that count.

Thank you REL for being a part of my heritage along with a lot of other great men.

Will you be celebrating Benedict Arnold's birthday, too?

Trying to compare the two just doesn't match. If you think so please explain. I had relatives fight on both sides of the Civil War. Each had their own reasons. R.E. Lee was highly thought of back then and he had to make a difficult decision on whether to stay with the union or go with his state. This was a difficult time in this country.

Which one led an armed rebellion against the USA?

neither....Arnold: The country wasn't formed yet....Lee: wasn't the overall commander until late in the war...he led the Army of Virginia...If you choose to or not to celebrate R. E. Lee's B-day, I don't care. I don't celebrate it at all. I am just saying for his time he was well thought of and liked. We can look back a criticize what people did with hindsight but from everything that I have read it was a tough time for people making those decisions. People decided for many different reasons. I am sure that if you put up someone we all could try and knock them down. For instance someone who toughted that they were a Christian and were in the limelight was found cheating on his wife but people still honor him. But again we didn't live in their shoes so we don't know exactly led to know why people did things and the real reasons behind them.

[TexasTiger 16,079]

On this day in 1807, Robert E Lee was born. Like MLK he wasn't perfect but he was a man of great character and stood up for what he strongly believed in.....state's rights.Many here will disagree and call him names. That's OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My CF is up for the only day I ever fly it. In fact during my recent move to Auburn, I lost mine. So my neighbor, who moved here from Utah, bought me a new one.....and one for himself.. All my neighbors say they like it and respect REL. It's the people I live among that count.

Thank you REL for being a part of my heritage along with a lot of other great men.

Will you be celebrating Benedict Arnold's birthday, too?

Trying to compare the two just doesn't match. If you think so please explain. I had relatives fight on both sides of the Civil War. Each had their own reasons. R.E. Lee was highly thought of back then and he had to make a difficult decision on whether to stay with the union or go with his state. This was a difficult time in this country.

Which one led an armed rebellion against the USA?

neither....Arnold: The country wasn't formed yet....Lee: wasn't the overall commander until late in the war...he led the Army of Virginia...If you choose to or not to celebrate R. E. Lee's B-day, I don't care. I don't celebrate it at all. I am just saying for his time he was well thought of and liked. We can look back a criticize what people did with hindsight but from everything that I have read it was a tough time for people making those decisions. People decided for many different reasons. I am sure that if you put up someone we all could try and knock them down. For instance someone who toughted that they were a Christian and were in the limelight was found cheating on his wife but people still honor him. But again we didn't live in their shoes so we don't know exactly led to know why people did things and the real reasons behind them.

Accepting folks for their choices in historical context is one thing-- denying reality as you did here, is another.

[lca408 388]

Arnold certainly had his reasons for switching sides in 1780. He did what he thought was right and he was VERY well thought of, much more so than Lee at the beginning of the Civil War. Arnold was the great battlefield hero for the Americans, which is why he was given West Point by Washington after his leg injury.

Lee chose to side with the South like many Virginians but unlike a lot of his extended family who remained pro-Union throughout the war, and unlike plenty of other Virginians who made that same choice like George Thomas. Lee knew what he signed up for. Granted, that doesn't mean he was a horrible person - just fighting for a bad cause. Plenty of ex-Confederates acknowledged this after the war and repented for both fighting against the US and the cause for which they fought. Not sure if Lee ever did but he did die 5 years after the war ended so he didn't have the 2-3 decades of correspondence and speeches that other veterans did.

[alexava 6,999]

Robert e Lee was not fighting for states rights. He was fighting for Virginia. If Virginia had went with the union he would have been a union general. He gets too much attention by southerners imo.

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

Robert e Lee was not fighting for states rights. He was fighting for Virginia. If Virginia had went with the union he would have been a union general. He gets too much attention by southerners imo.

You are correct...He went with his state pure and simple...Each person had their reason for fighting for each side whether they are correct or not it doesn't matter much at this point.

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

On this day in 1807, Robert E Lee was born. Like MLK he wasn't perfect but he was a man of great character and stood up for what he strongly believed in.....state's rights.Many here will disagree and call him names. That's OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My CF is up for the only day I ever fly it. In fact during my recent move to Auburn, I lost mine. So my neighbor, who moved here from Utah, bought me a new one.....and one for himself.. All my neighbors say they like it and respect REL. It's the people I live among that count.

Thank you REL for being a part of my heritage along with a lot of other great men.

Will you be celebrating Benedict Arnold's birthday, too?

Trying to compare the two just doesn't match. If you think so please explain. I had relatives fight on both sides of the Civil War. Each had their own reasons. R.E. Lee was highly thought of back then and he had to make a difficult decision on whether to stay with the union or go with his state. This was a difficult time in this country.

Which one led an armed rebellion against the USA?

neither....Arnold: The country wasn't formed yet....Lee: wasn't the overall commander until late in the war...he led the Army of Virginia...If you choose to or not to celebrate R. E. Lee's B-day, I don't care. I don't celebrate it at all. I am just saying for his time he was well thought of and liked. We can look back a criticize what people did with hindsight but from everything that I have read it was a tough time for people making those decisions. People decided for many different reasons. I am sure that if you put up someone we all could try and knock them down. For instance someone who toughted that they were a Christian and were in the limelight was found cheating on his wife but people still honor him. But again we didn't live in their shoes so we don't know exactly led to know why people did things and the real reasons behind them.

Accepting folks for their choices in historical context is one thing-- denying reality as you did here, is another.

Which reality?

[cole256 17,085]

Well I'm glad he lost.....

[alexava 6,999]

Well I'm glad he lost.....

lol. Come on man you a southerner.

[homersapien 12,899]

On this day in 1807, Robert E Lee was born. Like MLK he wasn't perfect but he was a man of great character and stood up for what he strongly believed in.....state's rights.Many here will disagree and call him names. That's OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My CF is up for the only day I ever fly it. In fact during my recent move to Auburn, I lost mine. So my neighbor, who moved here from Utah, bought me a new one.....and one for himself.. All my neighbors say they like it and respect REL. It's the people I live among that count.

Thank you REL for being a part of my heritage along with a lot of other great men.

Will you be celebrating Benedict Arnold's birthday, too?

Trying to compare the two just doesn't match. If you think so please explain. I had relatives fight on both sides of the Civil War. Each had their own reasons. R.E. Lee was highly thought of back then and he had to make a difficult decision on whether to stay with the union or go with his state. This was a difficult time in this country.

Which one led an armed rebellion against the USA?

neither....Arnold: The country wasn't formed yet....Lee: wasn't the overall commander until late in the war...he led the Army of Virginia...If you choose to or not to celebrate R. E. Lee's B-day, I don't care. I don't celebrate it at all. I am just saying for his time he was well thought of and liked. We can look back a criticize what people did with hindsight but from everything that I have read it was a tough time for people making those decisions. People decided for many different reasons. I am sure that if you put up someone we all could try and knock them down. For instance someone who toughted that they were a Christian and were in the limelight was found cheating on his wife but people still honor him. But again we didn't live in their shoes so we don't know exactly led to know why people did things and the real reasons behind them.

Virginia - along with the rest of the confederacy - initiated a rebellion over the worst of possible reasons. Lee chose his state - and ultimately the Confederacy - over his country.

We can deduce that he either sympathized with the reasons for secession or he merely exhibited a blind allegiance to his state, right or wrong. Neither of those is something to be proud of.

But I do believe he came to regret and realize the error of his ways. It must have been horrible dilemma to come to that realization after being the hero and champion of that cause. He was a military genius and a great man excepting for that flaw.

[lca408 388]

I think his military genius is sometimes overstated. Yes he won some great victories but consider the opposition he faced - I'm talking about the generals in charge. Lee faced 6 different commanders of the Army of the Potomac, and he defeated 4 of them in battle to the point that they would be removed from command. He also suffered enormous losses in his major battles - by the time of the Overland Campaign in 1864, Lee had lost over 90,000 men in battle under his command. Grant is often characterized as the "butcher" but Lee had lost 3 times as many men as Grant had in fewer campaigns up to that time. Lee's victories came at the expense of thousands of veteran troops and officers, all part of Lee's culture of the offensive war - always looking for ways to attack the enemy, even when on the defense - a lot like Rommel and German high command during WWII.

To homer - as far as his allegiance, it appears he did both in his decision but it's not as if every Virginian made that same choice. Plenty of Virginians decided to stay loyal to the US when the war began. This was much more common in an old and patriotic state like Virginia though you did see pockets of resistance to the Confederacy throughout the Deep South - Winston County in Alabama, Free State of Jones in Mississippi, large portions of east Tennessee and western North Carolina, and of course West Virginia. These were places where there were very few to no slaves, with an agriculture and economy independent of the slave system. Most of the Union regiments that sprung up from the southern states in 1863/64 came from these areas. It's often believed or assumed that the South was fully united in it's opposition to the US - not so in the least. In the Free State of Jones, there was actually open conflict for some time between the homegrown Unionists and home guard Confederates sent to quell their secession. There's a really interesting movie coming out this year about it that looks to be pretty cool and historically accurate.

[AUloggerhead 3,225]

On this day in 1807, Robert E Lee was born. Like MLK he wasn't perfect but he was a man of great character and stood up for what he strongly believed in.....state's rights.Many here will disagree and call him names. That's OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My CF is up for the only day I ever fly it. In fact during my recent move to Auburn, I lost mine. So my neighbor, who moved here from Utah, bought me a new one.....and one for himself.. All my neighbors say they like it and respect REL. It's the people I live among that count.

Thank you REL for being a part of my heritage along with a lot of other great men.

Will you be celebrating Benedict Arnold's birthday, too?

Trying to compare the two just doesn't match. If you think so please explain. I had relatives fight on both sides of the Civil War. Each had their own reasons. R.E. Lee was highly thought of back then and he had to make a difficult decision on whether to stay with the union or go with his state. This was a difficult time in this country.

Which one led an armed rebellion against the USA?

neither....Arnold: The country wasn't formed yet....Lee: wasn't the overall commander until late in the war...he led the Army of Virginia...If you choose to or not to celebrate R. E. Lee's B-day, I don't care. I don't celebrate it at all. I am just saying for his time he was well thought of and liked. We can look back a criticize what people did with hindsight but from everything that I have read it was a tough time for people making those decisions. People decided for many different reasons. I am sure that if you put up someone we all could try and knock them down. For instance someone who toughted that they were a Christian and were in the limelight was found cheating on his wife but people still honor him. But again we didn't live in their shoes so we don't know exactly led to know why people did things and the real reasons behind them.

Virginia - along with the rest of the confederacy - initiated a rebellion over the worst of possible reasons. Lee chose his state - and ultimately the Confederacy - over his country.

We can deduce that he either sympathized with the reasons for secession or he merely exhibited a blind allegiance to his state, right or wrong. Neither of those is something to be proud of.

But I do believe he came to regret and realize the error of his ways. It must have been horrible dilemma to come to that realization after being the hero and champion of that cause. He was a military genius and a great man excepting for that flaw.

Your deductions are completely wrong. Please do a modicum of research -- Lee was adamantly opposed to secession and was deeply disappointed that Virginia chose that route. He, along with many others, chose to stand by his state despite his reservations.

[AUloggerhead 3,225]

I think his military genius is sometimes overstated. Yes he won some great victories but consider the opposition he faced - I'm talking about the generals in charge. Lee faced 6 different commanders of the Army of the Potomac, and he defeated 4 of them in battle to the point that they would be removed from command. He also suffered enormous losses in his major battles - by the time of the Overland Campaign in 1864, Lee had lost over 90,000 men in battle under his command. Grant is often characterized as the "butcher" but Lee had lost 3 times as many men as Grant had in fewer campaigns up to that time. Lee's victories came at the expense of thousands of veteran troops and officers, all part of Lee's culture of the offensive war - always looking for ways to attack the enemy, even when on the defense - a lot like Rommel and German high command during WWII.

To homer - as far as his allegiance, it appears he did both in his decision but it's not as if every Virginian made that same choice. Plenty of Virginians decided to stay loyal to the US when the war began. This was much more common in an old and patriotic state like Virginia though you did see pockets of resistance to the Confederacy throughout the Deep South - Winston County in Alabama, Free State of Jones in Mississippi, large portions of east Tennessee and western North Carolina, and of course West Virginia. These were places where there were very few to no slaves, with an agriculture and economy independent of the slave system. Most of the Union regiments that sprung up from the southern states in 1863/64 came from these areas. It's often believed or assumed that the South was fully united in it's opposition to the US - not so in the least. In the Free State of Jones, there was actually open conflict for some time between the homegrown Unionists and home guard Confederates sent to quell their secession. There's a really interesting movie coming out this year about it that looks to be pretty cool and historically accurate.

Well, the fact that Lincoln offered Lee command of the entire Union Army belies your opinion of his military prowess. Had he accepted, is there any doubt that he would have quickly attacked Richmond and brought the war to an end much quicker than the 4-year slaughtere it eventually became?

[Mims44 2,190]

You can still look up Lee's letters to Virginia, BEGGING them not to secede and listing numerous reasons it was a bad idea.

He joined the confederacy because Virginia joined the confederacy. And our national pride today is akin to the state pride many felt back then.

Benedict Arnold was a badass also, had we treated the man right we'd have one more war hero in our national history instead of 1 more traitor.

[AUUSN 823]

On this day in 1807, Robert E Lee was born. Like MLK he wasn't perfect but he was a man of great character and stood up for what he strongly believed in.....state's rights.Many here will disagree and call him names. That's OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My CF is up for the only day I ever fly it. In fact during my recent move to Auburn, I lost mine. So my neighbor, who moved here from Utah, bought me a new one.....and one for himself.. All my neighbors say they like it and respect REL. It's the people I live among that count.

Thank you REL for being a part of my heritage along with a lot of other great men.

[homersapien 12,899]

I think his military genius is sometimes overstated. Yes he won some great victories but consider the opposition he faced - I'm talking about the generals in charge. Lee faced 6 different commanders of the Army of the Potomac, and he defeated 4 of them in battle to the point that they would be removed from command. He also suffered enormous losses in his major battles - by the time of the Overland Campaign in 1864, Lee had lost over 90,000 men in battle under his command. Grant is often characterized as the "butcher" but Lee had lost 3 times as many men as Grant had in fewer campaigns up to that time. Lee's victories came at the expense of thousands of veteran troops and officers, all part of Lee's culture of the offensive war - always looking for ways to attack the enemy, even when on the defense - a lot like Rommel and German high command during WWII.

To homer - as far as his allegiance, it appears he did both in his decision but it's not as if every Virginian made that same choice. Plenty of Virginians decided to stay loyal to the US when the war began. This was much more common in an old and patriotic state like Virginia though you did see pockets of resistance to the Confederacy throughout the Deep South - Winston County in Alabama, Free State of Jones in Mississippi, large portions of east Tennessee and western North Carolina, and of course West Virginia. These were places where there were very few to no slaves, with an agriculture and economy independent of the slave system. Most of the Union regiments that sprung up from the southern states in 1863/64 came from these areas. It's often believed or assumed that the South was fully united in it's opposition to the US - not so in the least. In the Free State of Jones, there was actually open conflict for some time between the homegrown Unionists and home guard Confederates sent to quell their secession. There's a really interesting movie coming out this year about it that looks to be pretty cool and historically accurate.

Man, you are whistling my tune.

I am at least moderately well read on both of these subject. And as for many Southerners, the Civil War has been a lifelong interest.

Furthermore, I live in the dark corner area of Greenville Co. SC which has always been area of moonshining and a hideouts for Confederate (draft) resistors, the latter of which included many of the "mountain people" in all Southern states. The war in the Appalachians was vicious and personal. It was often as much family vs. family as North vs. South.

I have posted many times on this forum regarding this, along with recommended reading.

[homersapien 12,899]

I think his military genius is sometimes overstated. Yes he won some great victories but consider the opposition he faced - I'm talking about the generals in charge. Lee faced 6 different commanders of the Army of the Potomac, and he defeated 4 of them in battle to the point that they would be removed from command. He also suffered enormous losses in his major battles - by the time of the Overland Campaign in 1864, Lee had lost over 90,000 men in battle under his command. Grant is often characterized as the "butcher" but Lee had lost 3 times as many men as Grant had in fewer campaigns up to that time. Lee's victories came at the expense of thousands of veteran troops and officers, all part of Lee's culture of the offensive war - always looking for ways to attack the enemy, even when on the defense - a lot like Rommel and German high command during WWII.

To homer - as far as his allegiance, it appears he did both in his decision but it's not as if every Virginian made that same choice. Plenty of Virginians decided to stay loyal to the US when the war began. This was much more common in an old and patriotic state like Virginia though you did see pockets of resistance to the Confederacy throughout the Deep South - Winston County in Alabama, Free State of Jones in Mississippi, large portions of east Tennessee and western North Carolina, and of course West Virginia. These were places where there were very few to no slaves, with an agriculture and economy independent of the slave system. Most of the Union regiments that sprung up from the southern states in 1863/64 came from these areas. It's often believed or assumed that the South was fully united in it's opposition to the US - not so in the least. In the Free State of Jones, there was actually open conflict for some time between the homegrown Unionists and home guard Confederates sent to quell their secession. There's a really interesting movie coming out this year about it that looks to be pretty cool and historically accurate.

Man, you are whistling my tune.

I am at least moderately well read on both of these subject. And as for many Southerners, the Civil War has been a lifelong interest.

Furthermore, I live in the dark corner area of Greenville Co. SC which has always been area of moonshining and a hideouts for Confederate (draft) resistors, the latter of which included many of the "mountain people" in all Southern states. The war in the Appalachians was vicious and personal. It was often as much family vs. family as North vs. South.

I have posted many times on this forum regarding this, along with recommended reading.

And I generally agree that Lee's military prowess is largely based on the circumstances he was dealt, not least of which was bad Union generalship. But he was doggedly determined and daring. The former accounted for the high casualties you and perhaps the latter was because he had to be considering the odds. But you are right, the Union generalship was awful.

[quietfan 233]

Lee was obviously a very good soldier: Graduated 2nd in his class at West Point, distinguished himself in our war with Mexico, and was a very good general during the Civil War even allowing for the weaknesses of some opposing generals. After the war he served with distinction as president of Washington College (now Washington and Lee University). But he was also a traitor to the United States of America as defined in Article 3, section 3 of the Constitution.

I have no problem with people choosing their own heroes. But sometimes hero worship leads to a closed mind (or comes from one). One of my more conservative Facebook friends posted a meme this morning commemorating Lee's birthday that called him "The greatest Southerner that ever lived". Really, I thought? Given that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were also Virginians and had a much greater impact on U.S. and world history? (Of course there are other southerners, including Martin Luther King, Jr. among others, who might be considered contenders for that title.)

In any case, while I can appreciate and acknowledge Lee's positive attributes and achievements, I would not fly the Confederate flag to commemorate him anymore than I would fly the Nazi flag to commemorate Erwin Rommel's birthday or achievements if I were German.

[alexava 6,999]

Lee was obviously a very good soldier: Graduated 2nd in his class at West Point, distinguished himself in our war with Mexico, and was a very good general during the Civil War even allowing for the weaknesses of some opposing generals. After the war he served with distinction as president of Washington College (now Washington and Lee University). But he was also a traitor to the United States of America as defined in Article 3, section 3 of the Constitution.

I have no problem with people choosing their own heroes. But sometimes hero worship leads to a closed mind (or comes from one). One of my more conservative Facebook friends posted a meme this morning commemorating Lee's birthday that called him "The greatest Southerner that ever lived". Really, I thought? Given that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were also Virginians and had a much greater impact on U.S. and world history? (Of course there are other southerners, including Martin Luther King, Jr. among others, who might be considered contenders for that title.)

In any case, while I can appreciate and acknowledge Lee's positive attributes and achievements, I would not fly the Confederate flag to commemorate him anymore than I would fly the Nazi flag to commemorate Erwin Rommel's birthday or achievements if I were German.

he was against the display of the confederate flag at Washington university.