Tennstud Speaks on the Trial

[DKW 86 6,934]

Link

US Govt vs Logan Young; day 2

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Again, a very long day in the US Federal Court Room on the 11th Floor of the Cliff Davis Federal Bldg in Memphis, Tn., with the judge hearing oral arguments about the admisability of Logan Young bragging at the Grove, a bar, about "getting Kendall Morehead cheap, for $10,000 to Tim Thompson with a UT booster and long time social friend, Duke Clement, in attendance. This government proposal was considered under the Fed 404 B rule, with, basically the government wanting this testimony in showing a pattern of conduct by Mr. Young but according to the defense arguments, and the judge, it had to meet very specific criterion and the judge, after and hour, ruled that it didn't; thus, Logan's bragging, even while drunk could not be admitted-a long shot by the govt but a defeat nevertheless.

UA AD Mal Moore came in and answered questions that everyone already knew re: recruiting, visits, signing day,Logan Young, boosters etc. Mal Moore when asked to identify him pointed to Mr. Young, who never looked Mal directly in the face, and when Mal Moore left the court room went out of his way to shake hands with the Government's attorneys and avoided Logan and his defense table. Logan did not smile one time during Mal's somewhat courtly appearance. Of course rumors exist around town of Logan's contempt for Mal Moore because Logan felt that Mal let him down, stopped returning calls 4-5 years ago, even to the extent of Logan bragging about how much money he had lent and or given to Mal through the years. On the stand Mal was loud and forceful in answering a question that he had ONLY spent one night at Logan's home and it was in the guest house, separate from Logan's main residence.

Mal tried to down play Logan's influence but did admit that Logan usually stayed at the same hotel as the team did (Red Elephants do this) give a $500,000 life insurance policy to the UA Ath Dept, gave $50,000 after a personal visit from Mal to Logan regarding a $1,000,000 video system for UA, bought a small luxury box seating 24 for $35,000 a year plus the price of the 24 $35.00 tickets. Then Mal left.

Before the next witness was called, with the jury out, the Feds pointed out to the court that Lisa Mallory might talk more than she should because of her past relationship with Logan and so the judge requested the feds to admonish her, beforehand. The US govt. mentioned that she used to date Logan and after the break up Lisa felt that Logan had stalked her, hired a private detective to follow her and called her late at night harrasing her.

Lisa answered questions from the Feds saying yes that Logan would pump on his chest and say "he's mine" when Albert Means name was mentioned. She told of Logan's drinking and gambling habits, passing out, ***edited*** trips to Alabama football games and Logan's obsession for Alabama and his habit, after a few drinks of saying "Roll Tide, Roll", which drew a loud laughter from some of the people in the court room, obviously familiar with Logan's favorite war chant. Lisa described Logan's favorite drink as J&B on the rocks(usually 10 or more) and said after he started drinking he got more garrulous and drank until he passed out.

Lisa did no damage to Logan and was described as "sort of dense" from one of the media scribes.

However, one of Logan's brilliant attorneys,(and I don't mean any disrespect because Hand's(his nickname) is very good) on cross examination asked her if Logan had ever mentioned giving any money to any coaches in her presence which Lisa answered no. Lisa departed.

But, then the US Govt attorney objected to the judge and had the transcript of Lisa's testimony reread, objecting to the question by one of Logan's defense attorneys (Hands) referencing "coaches", instead of limiting his question to a coach in the Lynn Lang case. The judge, after hearing arguments, OVERRULED his earlier decision and say Duke Clement's conversation with Logan, while both were drinking, about Logan bragging about getting Morehead so cheap-$10,000- was admissible. The defense said they would subpoena Tim Thompson that day and Kendall Morehead was already under subpoena.

The next govt witness was Albert Means who told of his background in football, how Lynn Lang had taken care of him took over his recruiting, meeting with recruiting coaches at Lang's apt,how Lang had an old 2 door Camero until Means

senior year, answered the question did he come from a large family said no(it was brought out that Albert had 4 brothers and one sister) and how he and Lang agreed that Lang would direct and handle his recruitment.

He said he was told by Lang to tell everyone that he took the ACT in West Memphis but he lied to the Federal Grand Jury and did not take it; he lied because Lang told him to and he didn't want to lose his opportunity to get a college education. Albert said he grew up a UT fan but Lang said that Tennessee didn't graduate football players so UT was off the table. He took 3 visits, Ga, Ky and Ala. In reply to a question he said that if he had been free to choose, he would have gone to Arkansas. He had an opportunity to go to the Hula Bowl but Lang said going to Alabama for an official visit was more important. Some of the jurors looked up from their note pads and looked at him when he said that! Lynn Lang made the decision of where to go to school. Lang paid for his prom clothes and gave him spending money $10.00 to $20.00 for meals, his mother never had much, if any,money. Lang gave him a $100 bill for Christmas. Lunch break at 12:40.

Several of the media guys joined me and we went to Leonard's BBQ on the Mall, where Logan and his group was also dining. Earlier, in the court room, Attorney Phil Shanks came up and told me he knew I didn't have anything to do with his mugging; I assured him I didn't and the day it happened I left a message at his office, which he said he didn't get. He told me he appreciated the offer of the reward money. He looked and appeared alright and was taking notes at the trial.

Most of us agreed at lunch that the prosecution had not accomplished much, if anything, with Mal Moore, Lisa Mallory, and Albert Means.

After lunch, before the jury returned, the Judge heard arguments about whether Lang's testimony about what he heard from Logan Young about Tim Thompson over Logan's house could be admitted. Lang, much larger and bigger than when he threatened me one night in 2000, after the Super Bowl when Memphians called and told me that Lang was in attendance, and when Lang walked by our table at Hueys, we chanted in unison "slave trader, slave trader"; he had to be physically restrained by an off duty Memphis policeman friend of mine who used to play football at Memphis. Today he saw me in the hall, smiled, shook hands like he was an old lost friend; I exchanged pleasantries and told him I knew life was difficult for him but he was doing the right thing. He thanked me and said he was sorry he had treated UT like he did; I told him I was glad he did, considering how everything turned out!

On the stand, Lang said that during the spring of 1999, Albert Means junior year, UA coach Ivy Williams started recruiting Albert. One day, he started talking about a man he needed to meet; Lang said he stopped him in midsentence and told Ivy he would have nothing to do with Botto. Ivy just moved on. Later, Milton Kirk approached Lang and told him that Botto was coming to see him and take him to "the man's" home and that he, Lang, would not have to deal with Botto. After practice in August, Botto came up, picked him up and carried him to Logan's house, which Lang described. Logan tool Lang upstairs and the deal was made, in between calls from Tim Thompson. Botto was left downstairs. Logan told Lang that he would deal directly with him, and no one else. Lang asked Logan what he paid for Kendall Morehead; Logan said $10,000. The government said this proved the mo, the on going conspiracy, that Logan had explained to Lang how the deal could be made, how he had done deals in the past, covering it with gambling and other cash transactions. The judge ruled in the government's favor so this conversation could be heard in front of the jury.

The jury came in and Lynn Lang said that he is now an asst. principal at Benton Harbor, Mich-2 hrs from Flynt; how after he resigned from Trezevant he had coached at Rolling Fork, in Miss, then joined his wife of ten years, an attorney for GM, worked attended and got his Masters from Central Michigan.

He then said how he started at Trezevant, became asst coach and then head coach, and described in detail his meeting and his association with Albert Means, describing it as a father-son relationship. He admitted to his indictment and his plea agreement. He said that when Botto carried him to Logan's house, which he described in detail to the jury, how Logan told him how he operated, how many players he had gotten out of Memphis, how he couldn't be caught the way he operated. He asked Lang "What do you want for Means?" Lang said he told Logan $50,000, Logan said that's not enough, so Lang said $75,000, which Logan again disrespected, so Lang asked for $100,000. Logan said that wasn't enough so,INCREDIBLE as it sounds( my description, not Langs) Lang said $150,000 which was agreed. Lang said this would buy 2 SUV, one for Lang and another for Kirk, and a home for Mrs. Means. Lang said he expected to walk out with the bundle of money but Logan told him that's not how it was done; he told Lang of the IRS reporting requirements for transactions over $10,000 so he would be paid in installments of $9,000. Logan gave him $1300-$1500 that first meeting when the deal was made as Logan described it "just for coming over." Lang then said how Logan emphasized everything would be between just he and Lang so that Logan could deny. When Lang, who was quite strong and forceful, was asked how did he and Logan keep up with the payments, Lang said Logan had as bad a bookkeeping system as he, Lang, had, he just made a mark on a piece of paper each time, drawing chuckles from the assembled jury.

Lang said when he returned to Trezevant after the Logan meeting, he didn't tell Kirk because he was going to be paid in installments. Kirk set Lang up with an auto dealer and Lang bought an Expediton, which was delivered to the school parking lot; Lang sent $5,000 to the dealer, signed the papers, and his monthly note was $744.00 Later Lang bought a souped up Chevy 95 Impala for $15,000 cash, which he had to pay money orders since the guy wouldn't take cash.

When the US Govt asked Lang what he did with the money, he said that he lived high and went through it like water, going to the strip clubs twice a week, partying, $10,000 to Mrs. Means, Mrs. Means light bills, money in bank cars; he told how difficult it was with a lot of cash; he carried $30,000 to the bank to pay off one of his cars and the Bank told him they would have to file an IRS form so he just took his money back and kept making monthly payments.

He returned to a meeting over at Logans where Tim Thompson kept calling trying to sell Logan on DeWayne Robertson but Logan didn't want to deal with Tim because his past buy, David Paine, didn't qualify and Logan was still mad at Tim; he told Tim to just stop calling. The Logan Young phone numbers and Lang's phone numbers were given out in court.

Lang, in answer to the question as to what he reported to the IRS said that he reported his $38,000 teaching and coaching salary for 1999 and 2000. He said that he later amended his 1999 and 2000 IRS Returns to show the $150,000 and that the IRS had added interest and penalty to him in the amount of $72,000 todate; he is making a $1,200 monthly payment to the IRS. He also added $4,000 of the $7,000 he had gotten from KY RC Claude Bassett, only $4,000 because he had experienced expenses for the other-giving money to the kids, paying Kirk's school bills(?)trip expenses occurred on the trip to KY.

He said that Kirk started getting mad because he wasn't' getting anything and he, Lang, didn't tell him of the money he had given to the Means. That he let Kirk go from Trezevant; Means went on down to Alabama; Kirk kept talking; Lang went to Young and asked all about Kirk; Lang described Kirk as a bragger and convinced Logan that no one would believe Kirk. Kirk even went to the Trezevant principal but no one believed Kirk. Logan assured Lang that there was no way to prove it. Lang said that to pick up his monthly $9,000 cash(a couple of times he only got $4,000 cash) he would call Logan; tell Logan he's on his way to his house; if Logan was drinking, Logan was socialble, talked football etc. otherwise he was only there for 2-3 minutes. Kirk kept talking around town. When the book Bragging Rights came out, Logan called him over and told Lang how to handle the questions, that he was going to sue Richard Ernsberger and Roy Adams.

The paper printed Kirk's accusations. Logan told Lang he would get him an attorney and pay for his legal bills. He went to Louis Allen's office and got the impression that Louis Allen was protecting Logan and had no interest in Lang. So Lang got his own attorney, AC Wharton; Logan gave $4,000 but by this time Logan was acting strange; he went from Logan's house to the Trust Bank in Laurelwood where Logan got him $4,000, which was over and above the $150,000 he had already received from Logan. Lang said he lied to his attorney, Wharton, at first but finally told him the truth after Logan wouldn't return calls and Wharton told Lang to stop calling Logan. That's when he knew the game was up and went to the FEDS.

Lang admitted he lied to everyone, to cover up.

When James Neal came up, he quoted Lang on previous stories in which Lang had denied ever meeting Logan, ever getting money from Logan etc. James Neal hammered Lang on Lang's statement that he had NEVER met with Logan with another person-other than the maid-around. Special emphasis was given to a statement that the defense had made earlier in which there was allegedly a meeting at Logan's house with Lang, Logan, and an attorney, Bill Wade, discussing sueing Richard Ernsberger, author of Bragging Rights, and Roy Adams. Lang was adamant, that he was not there, and yes, Wade would be lying if he said he was!

Court continued for the day!!

I did forget to add that during Lang's testimony on the stand when asked what other schools offered money during the recruitment of Albert Means, Lang said: UT, UA, UK, MIch State, and later added Ole MIss. He said that Jim Donnan gave $700 cash out of his pocket for his trip there and a Mr. Harper gave an envelope with $100.00 in it to him.

[DKW 86 6,934]

Day One

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Logan Young's 1st day of his trial started today.

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I arrived at 9:45 and the Federal Court Room was already packed; some 80 potential jurors were in the room, with some 20 other media folks.

We had been told that it would take 1-2 days for jury selection but the jury was chosen by 3:15PM, after an hour out for lunch.

Attorneys for the government and the defense asked numerous questions of the potential jurors incl: Albert Means, lying, gambling, drinking, NCAA, Logan's wealth and life style, Documents and Records, UT-Alabama and college football. It seemed that every subject of possible evil in the world was covered except a woman's vagina. The final jury was 7 Blacks, 5 white, 7 women and 5 men. Most of the jurors are 25-35 years of age. Several potential jurors were excluded because of UT affiliation or working for a UT boss. One nice lady volunteered that she like Logan Young; that her son played for their 1992 National Championship team and he had just used one of Logan's luxury boxes at a sporting event. James Neal said he would gladly accept her but Mrs. Donnelly, mother of Chris, was excused. A media wag near me inquired whether the govt missed an opportunity to ask Mrs. Donnelly how much money Chris got for transferring from Vanderbilt to Alabama!

Logan Young was joined by numerous attorneys, James Neal, Alan Wade, and one other guy, with a staff of 5 female asst attorneys on the ready.

Media from all over was present incl. Gary Parrish, Geoff Calkins, AP, numerous Alabama writers incl Doug Secrest, tv and other reporters.

After the jury was selected and sworn in at 3:25PM, the jury exited the room. Both sides asked the judge to continue the trial until the next day for opening statements, but the judge was adamant that the trial process needed to be expedited so he wanted to hear opening arguments today!!

The US Govt gave its opening argument starting at 4PM and lasted approx 20 minutes. Basically, Fred Godwin denounced all parties involved, incl the two Memphis high school coaches, Milton Kirk and Lynn Lang but said in any Criminal trial you go with what you have, and there are very few angels in a criminal trial.

He did not use the term slave trader but he said "What you have here is basically the buying and the selling of a young man, a big fast young man on the block for sale and the buyer was Logan Young and the University of Alabama." He continued with all of Albert attributes, athletically, but pointed out how he did not even take his ACT test, that Lynn Lang, at the suggestion of Ivy Williams, had someone take it for him.

Fred Godwin started with Botto coming to Trezevant HS, carrying Lynn Lang to Logan young's home, leaving Botto downstairs, while Logan and Lang went upstairs to make the deal. The original deal was 2 SUVs, a house for the mother and some cash, which was eventually settled for $150,000. Logan gave Lang $1,500 that first evening, telling Lang that no one but he, Logan, would be involved with him, that because of the IRS and CRT banking regulations, he would have to pay him in installments. Logan told Lang of his previous dealings with Tim Thompson of Melrose, bragging about buying Kendall Morehead and numerous other Memphis players. Logan told Lang that this was a safe deal and how long he had been doing these things, that as long as there was just he, Lang, and he, Logan, no one would ever prove anything.

Fred Godwin then spent considerable time explaining the dates of Logan's withdrawals and then Lang putting some money, over and above his $29,000 Memphis teacher's salary, into his account. The Government said that prior to Logan's deal with Lang, he, Logan, had made no money withdrawals from his bank the previous two months! Then, Logan made some 64 cash withdrawals over the next August to October period, over a year, of $294,000. He had dates where Logan withdrew on numerous occasions $9,000 or $9,500, and the next day or even the same day, Lang would deposit, or spend, sizable sums of money. Fred Godwin kept repeating "FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL", in talking about some dozen or so Logan withdrawals and Lang's timely deposits, saying at the trial they would go into all of them. Lang spent some $15,000 cash and money orders for an automobile right after Logan's withdrawal. The Feds said that Lang spent some $62,000 on various and sundry activities and purchases, had $47,000 in his bank account, etc. saying again and again "FOLLOW THE MONEY". We will prove the source was Logan Young. Godwin added that Albert grew up wanting to go to the University of Tennessee but Lang convinced Means that UT never graduated any football players and wouldn't let Albert near UT. Lang would meet all the recruiters at his apartment.

The Government said they would produce on the stand Liza Mallory, Logan's ex girl friend, who as an interior decorator would testify as to Logan bragging and saying of Albert Means "I own him; he's mine, beating himself in the chest" and of Logan mentioning Tim Thompson and buying Kendall Morehead.

Fred Godwin said that Lang could and would describe Logan's house, all the Bear Bryant busts, pictures, schedules, etc.

Fred Godwin again ended by saying "FOLLOW THE MONEY!'

James Neal began his argument by emphasizing that one must prove a defendant beyond a reasonable doubt; that Lang was not credible because he had lied for several years claiming he had never met Logan Young, had no dealings etc. Neal, with a picture of the cover of Bragging Rights on the huge tv screen, said that Lang, Young, and an attorney, Bill Wade, were over Young's house right after the book came out drawing up a law suit against Richard Ernsberger for his claims in that book; and even then, Lang was saying that he hadn't gotten any money from Logan.

James Neal made it clear that he didn't like Lynn Lang. He said that the defense would bring into court Rip Scherer, Ivy Williams, Botto-who will testify on the stand that he never brought Lang to Logan's house (so, it is obvious that Botto is sticking with Logan), Fritz Hill, who Lang said offered Lang $85.000 from Arkansas and $150,000 if Ark got both Means and Buress, UK crooked rc, Claude Bassett, who Lang claimed gave him $8,000 and Jim Donnan, who will all testify on the stand that Lang is lying.

Neal said that they would prove Lynn Lang as a liar and you just couldn't believe anything he said. He attacked the govt for making people cooperate with the NCAA.

Then, after the jury was sent from the court room, a government surprise. They moved, which the defense objected, to bring in Logan mo, bragging to individuals like Duke Clement and to Liza Myers how many ball players he had bought, incl a coach like former Melrose coach, Tim Thompson, who Liza Mallory would testify Logan used Tim Thompson and Kindall Morehead's name n several conversations re: college footbll. The govt. also said that it might call a Tom Culpepper. James Neal objected saying if you brought in accusations against Tim Thomspon and Logan buying other football players, it would be like having a trial within a trial. The government had some 6th court ruling to justify that Logan's mo was a pattern, he had been buying and sending numerous players to Alabama, and that by bringing in Tim Thompson, the govt was just showing a pattern in Logan's operation. The govt mentioned other names of individuals who would testify as to Logan bragging, admittedly over drinks, of his buying other football players.

The judge will rule on this Tim Thompson, Kendall Morhead allegation and its inclusion in this trial, in the morning.

I apologize as I am sure I have left some out but I had some 20 pages of notes, too many, so I just posted happenings from memory, mainly.

First day observations is that to serve on any jury one would have to be nearly dumb, stupid, blind(can't read) because if you knew anything about the NCAA, courts, college football, you weren't permitted to serve on the jury; thus, there was and is a deliberate dumbing down of individuals on the jury in this case.

Second, yes there is a pattern of Logan withdrawing money and then Lynn Lang either making a large purchase or depositing, so there is a money trail, BUT, these myriad dates tend to run together and confuse the jury. I counted at least 4 of the jurors with either eyes closed or nodding.

Lynn Lang did deny, stall, evade, for several years before he plead guilty and agreed to cooperate with the government. Thus, it is obvious that the defense will just continually mention that to the jury, plus bringing in coaches who, I am sure, did offer extra benefits to Lang if Albert signed with their school, Ark, Ky, and Ga, if you believe the govt. But, these coaches will, and one has told me, lie on the stand to protect themselves from violating the extra benefits rule of the NCAA as far as recruiting.

The defense did admit to the judge and jury that Logan did gamble, a lot, did drink a lot( they mentioned one time when one allegation was made that Logan had finished 10 Scotch and sodas and was working on the next 10 so he was just bragging.)

Milton Kirk, as we have all known, not the brightest, might not be such a good witness on the stand because the Government barely mentioned Milton Kirk today except to say he pleaded guilty and was in on the original plan.

The main person that the government had to have to connect the dots, Botto, according to Neal, will testify for the defense so I think it is going to be extremely difficult for the government to obtain a conviction!

Then again, maybe the defense will have to come up with something better than they offered in their opening argument as to where and from whom Lynn Lang got this $110.000 in the cash found in his bank and or large purchases he made. If Logan Young didn't give it to him the jury might ask who else could have or would have given Lang that amount of money, leaving the jury convinced it could only have come from Logan.

[AUHansel 0]

reading that is almost like school work....no thanks

[DKW 86 6,934]

reading that is almost like school work....no thanks

141582[/snapback]

Dude, just take a sense of humor while you read. It truly is funny.

Does anyone think that airing all this over and over is doing one bit of good?

Just when this ends, The Cottrell Trial start warming up on the radar screen.

And after all just look at all the damage this has done to recruiting this year....

[tombigbeetiger 223]

i just don't understand the rational of all the trials and law suits....it appears that the bammerboobs will regret all this ongoing publicity,although the university is not having anything to do with any of them.....staying out of the limelight could be the smartest decision that they have made in recent history

[Shug2003 1]

From what I've heard, Bammer is going to come out of this much worse than they would have if this trial had never happened. The Federal prosecutors intend to prove that LY bought players for Alabama for years and years and Means was not the first at all. Another mentioned was Kendal Moorehead. This could involve Mal Moore (first on the witness stand) as well as other Bammer coaches. They may have made a smart deal by making a deal with the NCAA because this could get really nasty. WDE!

[BamaGrad03 146]

I dont understand how Roy Adams saying that LY bragged about buying players while drunk is any different from ROY ADAMS bragging about buying players while drunk.

[WarTim 3,293]

All I know is,...uat BOUGHT players ! ! !

This is great FUN to watch 'em forced to roll around in this "stuff" for an extended period.

[The Prowler 1]

All I know is,...uat BOUGHT players ! ! !

This is great FUN to watch 'em forced to roll around in this "stuff" for an extended period.

141645[/snapback]

...........To bad some bammer fans think that this whole Trial isn't even going on.................As well as thinking LY didn't pay or has Never paid any recruit, because they can get who they want, 'cause they're 'bammer............ ............Now the Truth comes out.....this the Tradition that some Prospects talk about now and have been talkin' about these last.........ohhhh, Fifty-Eleven years.........

[bammanmr 0]

Holy death penalty batman! How did they come out of this with an intact football program!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

Everyone in the SEC should be thankful that they just gave bammer enough sanctions to make them mediocre and not the obviously-deserved death penalty.

If the NCAA would have meted out the proper justice, and killed the program, then we wouldn't have had the pleasure of coach fran, the destiny episode, and now "Mr. F***you" to laugh at on top of the mediocre program that bammer has become. I, for one, say thanks NCAA for doing all of us what we now know was a gigantic favor, and taking it REAL easy on alabama.

[WarTim 3,293]

I agree. While it would have been nice to see justice served and uat get the DEATH penalty, it is MORE fun for AUBURN and the rest of the SEC to KILL 'em on the Football field...over and over and over again! ! !

[BamaGrad03 146]

Holy death penalty batman! How did they come out of this with an intact football program!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

Everyone in the SEC should be thankful that they just gave bammer enough sanctions to make them mediocre and not the obviously-deserved death penalty.

If the NCAA would have meted out the proper justice, and killed the program, then we wouldn't have had the pleasure of coach fran, the destiny episode, and now "Mr. F***you" to laugh at on top of the mediocre program that bammer has become. I, for one, say thanks NCAA for doing all of us what we now know was a gigantic favor, and taking it REAL easy on alabama.

141706[/snapback]

Yeah that makes sense...there you go again, being an auburn fan. We deserved the death penalty? The NCAA said themselves that there was no lack of institutional control...and that it was all on the boosters. So...what you dont believe the NCAA when they said that? But you take all the negative stuff they say as gospel? Typical...pick and choose what best supports your hate filled perspective.

[WarTim 3,293]

Holy death penalty batman! How did they come out of this with an intact football program!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

Everyone in the SEC should be thankful that they just gave bammer enough sanctions to make them mediocre and not the obviously-deserved death penalty.

If the NCAA would have meted out the proper justice, and killed the program, then we wouldn't have had the pleasure of coach fran, the destiny episode, and now "Mr. F***you" to laugh at on top of the mediocre program that bammer has become. I, for one, say thanks NCAA for doing all of us what we now know was a gigantic favor, and taking it REAL easy on alabama.

141706[/snapback]

Yeah that makes sense...there you go again, being an auburn fan. We deserved the death penalty? The NCAA said themselves that there was no lack of institutional control...and that it was all on the boosters. So...what you dont believe the NCAA when they said that? But you take all the negative stuff they say as gospel? Typical...pick and choose what best supports your hate filled perspective.

141719[/snapback]

Yeah, THAT makes "sense".

You must have mysteriously forgotten that it was the N C A A that mentioned the DEATH penalty for uat, NOT any Auburn fan.

[AFTiger 282]

I guess the reason the NCAA found no lack of institutional control was that the institution was in control of buying players. Makes sense to me!

[WAR EAGLE!!! 0]

Holy death penalty batman! How did they come out of this with an intact football program!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

Everyone in the SEC should be thankful that they just gave bammer enough sanctions to make them mediocre and not the obviously-deserved death penalty.

If the NCAA would have meted out the proper justice, and killed the program, then we wouldn't have had the pleasure of coach fran, the destiny episode, and now "Mr. F***you" to laugh at on top of the mediocre program that bammer has become. I, for one, say thanks NCAA for doing all of us what we now know was a gigantic favor, and taking it REAL easy on alabama.

141706[/snapback]

Yeah that makes sense...there you go again, being an auburn fan. We deserved the death penalty? The NCAA said themselves that there was no lack of institutional control...and that it was all on the boosters. So...what you dont believe the NCAA when they said that? But you take all the negative stuff they say as gospel? Typical...pick and choose what best supports your hate filled perspective.

141719[/snapback]

I garuntee the Auburn Nation does not won't the death penelty for Alabama. That would take away an assured W each year...

[AURainman 6]

Holy death penalty batman! How did they come out of this with an intact football program!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

Everyone in the SEC should be thankful that they just gave bammer enough sanctions to make them mediocre and not the obviously-deserved death penalty.

If the NCAA would have meted out the proper justice, and killed the program, then we wouldn't have had the pleasure of coach fran, the destiny episode, and now "Mr. F***you" to laugh at on top of the mediocre program that bammer has become. I, for one, say thanks NCAA for doing all of us what we now know was a gigantic favor, and taking it REAL easy on alabama.

141706[/snapback]

Yeah that makes sense...there you go again, being an auburn fan. We deserved the death penalty? The NCAA said themselves that there was no lack of institutional control...and that it was all on the boosters. So...what you dont believe the NCAA when they said that? But you take all the negative stuff they say as gospel? Typical...pick and choose what best supports your hate filled perspective.

141719[/snapback]

Kinda like you did here?!

During all your antibama trial updates david...you failed to mention that Lang testified that he GOT MONEY from UGA, UK for the recruitment of means...AND that UT, UK, UGA, Michigan St and Arkansas were all involved in bidding. Yet none of those other schools got hammered? Is that fair? No...but as long as bama gets slammed...thats all that matters right?

141530[/snapback]

Claiming that other programs gave him money, YOU take as gospel. But Bama Boosters wouldn't DARE join in on the bidding. Clearly, if you believe the other programs were involved (which apparently, you do) you implicate Bama in the deal as well (because they CLEARLY had the winning bid). But your stance has always been, "Where's the proof?!" If you can't see it when its right in front of your face, you'll never see it.

Hey Pot!! YOU'RE BLACK!!!

[WarTim 3,293]

[AUesquire 1]

Great points Rain. The fact is that numerous other schools either bid or paid money to get Means. Mazzone even admitted that he was contacted about Means but backed off when he found there was a bidding war to get him. There is NO DOUBT that Albert Means was going to play for whoever paid Lang the most money and for whoever Lang told him to play for.

This thing is going to get really ugly before it's over and I imagine there are a few tightened sphincters around T-Town this week. Two of those butt muscles probably belong to Ivy Williams and Ronnie Cottrell. Their names are going to come up more than once in this thing and they know they're cases may hinge on a lot of what comes out of this trial.

[WarTim 3,293]

Ahhhh, yes, there are MANY "butt muscles" at the smaller school in west al.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Holy death penalty batman! How did they come out of this with an intact football program!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

Everyone in the SEC should be thankful that they just gave bammer enough sanctions to make them mediocre and not the obviously-deserved death penalty.

If the NCAA would have meted out the proper justice, and killed the program, then we wouldn't have had the pleasure of coach fran, the destiny episode, and now "Mr. F***you" to laugh at on top of the mediocre program that bammer has become. I, for one, say thanks NCAA for doing all of us what we now know was a gigantic favor, and taking it REAL easy on alabama.

141706[/snapback]

Yeah that makes sense...there you go again, being an auburn fan.

---bingo!!! BG just realized he's on an Auburn board, and even accused one of us as being an Auburn fan.

We deserved the death penalty? The NCAA said themselves that there was no lack of institutional control...and that it was all on the boosters. So...what you dont believe the NCAA when they said that? But you take all the negative stuff they say as gospel? Typical...pick and choose what best supports your hate filled perspective.

Dang guys, BG has a point here. We are starting to act like bammers.

141719[/snapback]

[jared52 4,353]

The more of this I read, the more I think Bama got what it deserved. In that, I mean they DID NOT deserve the death penalty. It's unfortunate for those kids who were recruited right and longed for a chance to be competitive in the SEC having their college days tained by the acts of a few coaches and boosters.

It wasn't lack of institutional control, it was lack of good sense on the part of the people involved.

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

For all our Bama friends on the board, your inspirational thought of the day:

Despair - Problems

[WarTim 3,293]

For all our Bama friends on the board, your inspirational thought of the day:

Despair - Problems

141814[/snapback]

"Logan ICEBURG Young"

[bammanmr 0]

But you take all the negative stuff they say as gospel? Typical...pick and choose what best supports your hate filled perspective.

141719[/snapback]

Seeing as court testimony is about as close to the 'gospel' as you can get without having firsthand knowledge, yeah, I'll believe the witness statements.

[tombigbeetiger 223]

The more of this I read, the more I think Bama got what it deserved.  In that, I mean they DID NOT deserve the death penalty.  It's unfortunate for those kids who were recruited right and longed for a chance to be competitive in the SEC having their college days tained by the acts of a few coaches and boosters.

It wasn't lack of institutional control, it was lack of good sense on the part of the people involved.

141774[/snapback]

since when has common sense been in an abundance at the crapstone? "stupid is as stupid does,sir".....forrest dav......er.....forrest gump