Teachers union chief: School choice rooted in segregation

[Auburn85 425]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/teachers-union-chief-school-choice-rooted-in-segregation/2017/07/20/275c1bbc-6d8f-11e7-abbc-a53480672286_story.html

 

WASHINGTON — The head of one of the country’s leading teachers’ unions charged Thursday that school choice, a key policy agenda of the Trump administration, is rooted in segregation and racism.

Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers, the nation’s second largest teachers’ group, said that decades ago school choice was used by officials in the South to resist desegregation.

Weingarten has been a fierce opponent of President Donald Trump’s efforts to expand charter and private school voucher programs around the country. In her speech, she called Education Secretary Betsy DeVos a “public school denier.”

“Make no mistake: This use of privatization, coupled with disinvestment, are only slightly more polite cousins of segregation,” Weingarten said.

Weingarten cited the example of Prince Edward County, Virginia, which after the Supreme Court’s Brown vs. Board of Education decision in 1954, tried to bypass desegregation efforts by closing down every public school and opening private schools that were off-limits to black children.

 

“And they did it using public money,” she said. “Decades ago, the term ‘choice’ was used to cloak overt racism.”

The comments prompted immediate criticism from school choice groups. Jeanne Allen, CEO of the Center for Education Reform, called for Weingarten’s resignation.

Allen said that comparing education reform advocates to racists and segregationists “is not just ill-advised hyperbole, it is a deeply offensive, highly inflammatory insult to all the parents and people - of all races, backgrounds and regions - who have worked to bring options, opportunities and reforms to an education system that has failed them for generations.”

“Weingarten’s allies should disavow these comments, and America’s teachers should look into their hearts, consider whether this is the type of language and leadership they want as being representative of their views and voice, and consider inviting Weingarten’s resignation.”

During an unrelated event in Denver, DeVos took a swipe at her opponents.

She said her school choice advocacy “has led to some . let’s call it . ‘excitement’ on the left.”

“But I consider the ‘excitement’ a badge of honor, and so should you,” DeVos said, according to remarks released by the department. “Our opponents, the defenders of the status quo, only protest those capable of implementing real change. You represent real change.”

Education Department spokeswoman Liz Hill said school choice helps level the playing field by letting students escape failing schools.

“Research shows school choice programs most benefit families from lower socio-economic backgrounds,” she said in a statement. “The notion of ‘privatization’ is simply a scare tactic from those who are invested in defending the status quo at all costs.”

[TitanTiger 18,833]

This is idiotic.  School districts are segregated already because of where people live.  Allowing parents flexibility when their zoned school is failing is more likely to create more integrated schools than the opposite.  

[PUB78 1,232]

Another example of why the NFT and AEA are not taken seriously or have any credibility,

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

10 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

This is idiotic.  School districts are segregated already because of where people live.  Allowing parents flexibility when their zoned school is failing is more likely to create more integrated schools than the opposite.  

It's not completely idiotic. Studies show that school choice programs actually hurt students who cannot afford to go to those private or charter schools, then their schools lose money when students that can afford it leave. That puts the school that those economically disadvantaged students are in at an educational disadvantage. They tend to lead to segregation because some minorities are usually in lower economic brackets. 

[TitanTiger 18,833]

9 hours ago, GiveEmElle said:

It's not completely idiotic. Studies show that school choice programs actually hurt students who cannot afford to go to those private or charter schools, then their schools lose money when students that can afford it leave. That puts the school that those economically disadvantaged students are in at an educational disadvantage. They tend to lead to segregation because some minorities are usually in lower economic brackets. 

So the solution is to give them zero options and hope for the best?

First, these are the same kinds of arguments against magnet school programs like Montgomery has. The school district is failing and parents get sick of it. They are either going to move out, homeschool or send their kids to private schools, so finally they implement a magnet program for kids and parents who actually care about education.  But the unions and administrators married to the status quo whine that it pulls all the good students away from their zoned schools and leaves them with the problem and disadvantaged kids.

Well, I have news for you, you were gonna lose those kids anyway because parents are tired of classroom time being wasted dealing with kids who don't want to learn and their parents who don't give a damn enough to fix it. They're sick of fights in the hallways and budding gang members intimidating everyone else. They're over school administrators who have given up on discipline. So if you didn't have the magnet program, you'd have just had more families moving to Auburn or Prattville, more families homeschooling, more families scraping together the money to send their kids to the ever expanding private schools. 

The system as it is is broken. It needs a complete overhaul. But at the very least it needs parents empowered with options besides "sit there and let the professionals work it out.  If you're lucky we'll fix it before your kid graduates."

The school system is not going to get any more segregated than it already is by giving parents a way out. 

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

34 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

So the solution is to give them zero options and hope for the best?

First, these are the same kinds of arguments against magnet school programs like Montgomery has. The school district is failing and parents get sick of it. They are either going to move out, homeschool or send their kids to private schools, so finally they implement a magnet program for kids and parents who actually care about education.  But the unions and administrators married to the status quo whine that it pulls all the good students away from their zoned schools and leaves them with the problem and disadvantaged kids.

Well, I have news for you, you were gonna lose those kids anyway because parents are tired of classroom time being wasted dealing with kids who don't want to learn and their parents who don't give a damn enough to fix it. They're sick of fights in the hallways and budding gang members intimidating everyone else. They're over school administrators who have given up on discipline. So if you didn't have the magnet program, you'd have just had more families moving to Auburn or Prattville, more families homeschooling, more families scraping together the money to send their kids to the ever expanding private schools. 

The system as it is is broken. It needs a complete overhaul. But at the very least it needs parents empowered with options besides "sit there and let the professionals work it out.  If you're lucky we'll fix it before your kid graduates."

The school system is not going to get any more segregated than it already is by giving parents a way out. 

I didn't say zero options was the solution. It's my opinion that we need to put more money into education, fix our public schools. The problem is that often it's burecrats making decisions about what's best for students without consulting those educating the students. Betsy Devos, for example, runs the nations education department and has zero experience in education. If you have never been in a classroom as an educator you have no clue what is best for improving schools. 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,000]

To the OP, the teacher's union's statement was to invoke emotion into the argument to garner support from their membership and their agenda is obvious as any union will want to continue the status quo with regard to the number of jobs, especially if those jobs are threatened.  I would agree that originally the private schools were "white flight" as there were known here in NC, but that label is not relevant in today's world.

My wife was a public school teacher for 25+ years in Fla, Ga and NC and all three of our children were products of the public school system.  Throughout the years it has always been interesting to me that private school teachers, historically, have been payed much less than public school teachers. I found the following article from 2013 and I would think it is still valid:

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-are-private-school-teachers-paid-less-than-public-school-teachers/280829/

The fact that experienced teachers are leaving the public school system to pursue a job that let's them teach without the issues they have in the public school for less money, speaks volumes.  Yeah, the public school system is broken, it may take someone outside the current system to have a fresh perspective to "fix" the system.  I'm not sure Devos is that person, but right now nothing seems to be working.

[AU64 10,122]

As a non-educator and taxpayer who helps pay for the current failing system let me make a couple observations

First and most important...education is and has been a state and local responsibility and the continued attempt to blame a Federal official who has been in office for 6 months for what we have now is totally unethical and unsupported by any facts whatsoever.  Anyone who knows anything about education should be ashamed to make such a specious argument and makes me fear for the future of students under their guidance. 

The demonstrated objective of the educational bureaucracy is to maintain the status quo which unfortunately means more taxpayer money spent on education with declining performance and failing schools...and woe be unto anyone who questions them...including parents of children in the school systems.   A mostly non-elected and unaccountable system exists in what we call public schools.  The only vote parents have to combat the failing education system is to vote with their feet....which they are doing in droves despite every roadblock the educational establishment can put in their way.

As far as I know the role of the Sect of Education is to represent the interests of taxpayers ....and not necessarily the teacher's union since that body is self-serving organization.  Over the past decade or two it should be pretty clear to anyone who has had children or grandchildren in the public schools (as all of mine have been) that it is only coincidental if the union's goals happen to work to the benefit of students.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

1 hour ago, AU64 said:

As a non-educator and taxpayer who helps pay for the current failing system let me make a couple observations

First and most important...education is and has been a state and local responsibility and the continued attempt to blame a Federal official who has been in office for 6 months for what we have now is totally unethical and unsupported by any facts whatsoever.  Anyone who knows anything about education should be ashamed to make such a specious argument and makes me fear for the future of students under their guidance. 

The demonstrated objective of the educational bureaucracy is to maintain the status quo which unfortunately means more taxpayer money spent on education with declining performance and failing schools...and woe be unto anyone who questions them...including parents of children in the school systems.   A mostly non-elected and unaccountable system exists in what we call public schools.  The only vote parents have to combat the failing education system is to vote with their feet....which they are doing in droves despite every roadblock the educational establishment can put in their way.

As far as I know the role of the Sect of Education is to represent the interests of taxpayers ....and not necessarily the teacher's union since that body is self-serving organization.  Over the past decade or two it should be pretty clear to anyone who has had children or grandchildren in the public schools (as all of mine have been) that it is only coincidental if the union's goals happen to work to the benefit of students.

Where did someone blame Devos for the current situation? 

The Secretary's job is to oversee the overall direction of the department. To put someone in that position who has no experience in working in education on any level is a travesty. Would you get your plumber to perform your heart surgery? 

I'm not denying existence of problems within public education. However a one size fits all problem solving method will not work across the board. Educators voices need to be heard because they see the problems that exist within their schools on a daily basis and often can find solutions. Stop looking at the coin from one side.

[homersapien 10,924]

1 hour ago, AU64 said:

As a non-educator and taxpayer who helps pay for the current failing system let me make a couple observations

First and most important...education is and has been a state and local responsibility and the continued attempt to blame a Federal official who has been in office for 6 months for what we have now is totally unethical and unsupported by any facts whatsoever.  Anyone who knows anything about education should be ashamed to make such a specious argument and makes me fear for the future of students under their guidance. 

And who exactly has made that argument? 

The only arguments I have seen are about Devoss making it worse.  Much worse.

[Auburn85 425]

On 7/27/2017 at 9:32 PM, GiveEmElle said:

It's not completely idiotic. Studies show that school choice programs actually hurt students who cannot afford to go to those private or charter schools, then their schools lose money when students that can afford it leave. That puts the school that those economically disadvantaged students are in at an educational disadvantage. They tend to lead to segregation because some minorities are usually in lower economic brackets. 

I haven't had any luck in finding any info, but have always wondered what happens to the funding. For example, does the money schools lose get divided into other schools that didn't lose as many students or if the funding goes to something else. 

[Auburn85 425]

Montgomery has many private schools. Granted I know not 100% of the enrollment lives in a Montgomery school zone, but I would say the vast majority do.

 

Every student that attends a private school means there is one less student that could be in the public school system.

 

The parents that have children in private school don't stop paying  taxes, which helps fund public education. So in theory they pay taxes as if their children attend public school, but pay out of pocket(if no scholarships are granted) to send their children to a private school. 

 

One would think the less number of students in public school would mean more education dollars to go around, but it's not unfortunately.

 

 

 

 

 

[AU64 10,122]

3 hours ago, GiveEmElle said:

Where did someone blame Devos for the current situation? 

The Secretary's job is to oversee the overall direction of the department. To put someone in that position who has no experience in working in education on any level is a travesty. Would you get your plumber to perform your heart surgery? 

I'm not denying existence of problems within public education. However a one size fits all problem solving method will not work across the board. Educators voices need to be heard because they see the problems that exist within their schools on a daily basis and often can find solutions. Stop looking at the coin from one side.

Sorry....the fact that you jump on that bandwagon so often makes me think you actually expect something beneficial from the cabinet post.   In fact, about all she or any of her predecessors do is manage a bunch of Washington bureaucrats and the thought that ANY solutions to our education problems will come forth from the Dept of Education is a fantasy.   It's all about money and who gets it and I bet you can't tell me any good educational concepts to originate in DC in the past 20 years. 

On the the other hand, the union president in the OP should be considered as an embarrassment to teachers everywhere but haven't seen much in the national media calling him to account or asking teachers all over the country if they agree with him.  Would be nice to know where teachers stand on that.

Meanwhile, better to spend your time and energy working on the legislature of whatever state you live or teach in ....and with your local County or City Councils who fund schools in your community.   

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

6 minutes ago, Auburn85 said:

I haven't had any luck in finding any info, but have always wondered what happens to the funding. For example, does the money schools lose get divided into other schools that didn't lose as many students or if the funding goes to something else. 

Public schools in Alabama receive funds based on ADM ( Average Daily Membership). Increases or decreases in enrollment affect public schools financially. In my district, schools are under a desegregation order so students must attend the school in the zone where they reside. Several years ago we consolidated high schools from 7 to 4 and lost students who chose to go outside the district/county. It was a cost saving measure that lost students, which resulted in a loss of teacher units. This money doesn't necessarily go anywhere else, schools may just receive less from year to year. Imagine if you lost your job and your new job paid less than what you had grown used to. You financially adjust. Financial adjustments in schools affect students. 

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

8 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Sorry....the fact that you jump on that bandwagon so often makes me think you actually expect something beneficial from the cabinet post.   In fact, about all she or any of her predecessors do is manage a bunch of Washington bureaucrats and the thought that ANY solutions to our education problems will come forth from the Dept of Education is a fantasy.   It's all about money and who gets it and I bet you can't tell me any good educational concepts to originate in DC in the past 20 years. 

On the the other hand, the union president in the OP should be considered as an embarrassment to teachers everywhere but haven't seen much in the national media calling him to account or asking teachers all over the country if they agree with him.  Would be nice to know where teachers stand on that.

Meanwhile, better to spend your time and energy working on the legislature of whatever state you live or teach in ....and with your local County or City Councils who fund schools in your community.   

Call it jumping on the bandwagon if you like, but I see absolutely nothing good about her appointment. But if it makes you feel better I also think Rick Perry and Ben Carson's appointments were a travesty too. This administration lacks the ability to make wise choices in regards to staff, but then again America made an unwise choice too. 

If you go back to my first post my statement was that it's not completely idiotic and I addressed the parts that I see as honest from the statements. 

[AU64 10,122]

13 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

Call it jumping on the bandwagon if you like, but I see absolutely nothing good about her appointment. But if it makes you feel better I also think Rick Perry and Ben Carson's appointments were a travesty too. This administration lacks the ability to make wise choices in regards to staff, but then again America made an unwise choice too. 

If you go back to my first post my statement was that it's not completely idiotic and I addressed the parts that I see as honest from the statements. 

He selected people who shared his political views...not sure what else you expected....look at who the previous president picked for things like Homeland Security and even AG and who even remembers the other Cabinet Secretaries who just resigned or retired 6 months ago ?   You are making way too much over these appointments IMO...

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

2 hours ago, AU64 said:

He selected people who shared his political views...not sure what else you expected....look at who the previous president picked for things like Homeland Security and even AG and who even remembers the other Cabinet Secretaries who just resigned or retired 6 months ago ?   You are making way too much over these appointments IMO...

And exactly what are his political views? He lies so much it's hard to discern any political views other than destroying the legacy of his predecessor. Having a POTUS that is an intellectually disentersted, reckless, mendacious narcissist is terrifying. IMO, if that doesn't bother you then you are a fool.

[AU64 10,122]

37 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

And exactly what are his political views? He lies so much it's hard to discern any political views other than destroying the legacy of his predecessor. Having a POTUS that is an intellectually disentersted, reckless, mendacious narcissist is terrifying. IMO, if that doesn't bother you then you are a fool.

That's your view...which is fine...but considering that you are teaching the next generation of citizens of your community,  I find your views to be downright scary if you are expressing them to your students....which I expect you are.  

JMO but you are a prime example of what's wrong with our education system these days.....politically engaged and highly partisan and also intellectually dishonest or maybe intellectually disinterested if you really believe the stuff you post since you seem to believe what ever the liberal smear machines toss your way.    Maybe stick to what you know....which is teaching kids in your public school without filling them full of your hate.    JMO

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

1 hour ago, AU64 said:

That's your view...which is fine...but considering that you are teaching the next generation of citizens of your community,  I find your views to be downright scary if you are expressing them to your students....which I expect you are.  

JMO but you are a prime example of what's wrong with our education system these days.....politically engaged and highly partisan and also intellectually dishonest or maybe intellectually disinterested if you really believe the stuff you post since you seem to believe what ever the liberal smear machines toss your way.    Maybe stick to what you know....which is teaching kids in your public school without filling them full of your hate.    JMO

You have just shown me a serious lack of intelligence. You and others here on the right are so self righteous and judgemental. This is a political message board where I'm free to express my political views within the confines of forum rules.  This isn't a classroom.  Believe me, I know the difference. People in your circle may not have the intelligence to know time and place for expressing political views but I can assure you, I'm smart enough to know when to keep silent and when to speak. I love my students and in part that love is why I have some of the views I do. The party I support helps the students I love by promoting programs that help them to be fed, educated and healthy. Your party says if they aren't rich they don't deserve food, education and healthcare. My party says their sexual orientation doesn't mean they don't deserve equal rights. Your party says they are unequal. My party supports equal rights for all. Your party supports equal rights for the wealthy only. The only hate I possess is for ignorance, and it's a virtue in the GOP.

[homersapien 10,924]

3 hours ago, AU64 said:

That's your view...which is fine...but considering that you are teaching the next generation of citizens of your community,  I find your views to be downright scary if you are expressing them to your students....which I expect you are.  

JMO but you are a prime example of what's wrong with our education system these days.....politically engaged and highly partisan and also intellectually dishonest or maybe intellectually disinterested if you really believe the stuff you post since you seem to believe what ever the liberal smear machines toss your way.    Maybe stick to what you know....which is teaching kids in your public school without filling them full of your hate.    JMO

Good grief.