NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: No, it isn't. I've told you that we aren't talking about bringing charges or convicting him of something in a court of law. We are talking about deciding who to vote for in a presidential election. The standards of proof and such are not the same. Quit dodging. You keep changing the subject because you know your argument is flimsy. Try to keep up. We are talking about what conservatives said about Bill BEFORE he was ever elected. Based on little more than claims by women who said he'd sexually assaulted them or that he'd carried on affairs with them, conservatives deemed him unfit for office - that he lacked the character to serve in such an position of honor, power and responsibility. Said if he'll lie to his wife, how could we ever trust him. This was long before any impeachment stuff was even on the table. But the same conservatives fail to apply the same standard of judgment to Trump. It's utterly hypocritical. Assault is a legal term. Fact. Michelle would have said that about Bill too, so not just conservatives. She said it about his wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,471 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Just now, aujeff11 said: It seems like you understand that all of these defenses and deflections are nothing more than party lip-service, but yet it seems you’re ranting. You’re dead on when you say that the conservatives would be in an uproar over the democratic candidates with numerous sexual assault allegations and that’s all that really matters. Of course I understand it. I'm ranting because it's as plain as the nose on my face, but the defenders try act like it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,471 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Just now, NolaAuTiger said: Assault is a legal term. Fact. And still not relevant to what we are talking about. I am not saying we should convict someone on these claims without his day in court. I am saying that based on what we know about him, how do we vote? Just now, NolaAuTiger said: Michelle would have said that about Bill too, so not just conservatives. She said it about his wife. You seem confused. Did I say conservatives were wrong about Bill back then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: Of course I understand it. I'm ranting because it's as plain as the nose on my face, but the defenders try act like it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,471 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 And let's also get something straight here: "sexual assault" is not JUST a legal term. It certainly can be and perhaps usually is, but it is not limited to only discussing legal issues in a court of law. It is a word (or in this case "phrase). It has a commonly understood definition. Generally speaking it means some form of unwanted, nonconsensual sexual contact that falls short of rape. So quit playing semantics to avoid the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveEmElle 1,559 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 13 hours ago, SaltyTiger said: pretty lightweight for a targeted man of his resources If I had listed all of his shortcomings you'd still be reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveEmElle 1,559 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 8 hours ago, TitanTiger said: Of course I understand it. I'm ranting because it's as plain as the nose on my face, but the defenders try act like it's not. And that's the problem. Trump supporters are in an ongoing battle with reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveEmElle 1,559 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 9 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said: Using loopholes means you don't know what you're doing? Ha! President doesn't control market, but it does influence optimism of investors, as we've clearly seen since Trump took office. He could cure every illness and you'd probably complain because doctors would lose work. He had to use bankruptcy to beat debts he couldn't pay. He isn't a financial genius. If he cures diabetes I'll be the first one to praise him. But it's really a moronic illustration on your part considering the man has no interest in helping others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 1 hour ago, GiveEmElle said: He had to use bankruptcy to beat debts he couldn't pay. He isn't a financial genius. If he cures diabetes I'll be the first one to praise him. But it's really a moronic illustration on your part considering the man has no interest in helping others. Chapter 11 is a sound business decision when a company is facing financial problems-it's better than the alternative, shutting down. The sources of financial problems vary - they can be beyond the control of the business. Apparently you're no Chapter 11 genius. No interest in helping others? Does creating jobs count? But then again, you'd probably never deem one of his ventures synallagmatic in any sense. Blanket statements that are EASILY undermined. Too much winning, you're tired of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,354 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 2 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said: Chapter 11 is a sound business decision when a company is facing financial problems-it's better than the alternative, shutting down. The sources of financial problems vary - they can be beyond the control of the business. Apparently you're no Chapter 11 genius. No interest in helping others? Does creating jobs count? But then again, you'd probably never deem one of his ventures synallagmatic in any sense. Blanket statements that are EASILY undermined. Too much winning, you're tired of it Perhaps you should look into the details of this bankruptcy: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/nyregion/donald-trump-atlantic-city.html http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/donald-trump-atlantic-city-bankruptcy/ https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all http://www.npr.org/2016/03/17/470806232/opening-the-books-on-donald-trumps-business-deals-in-atlantic-city https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/trumps-bad-bet-how-too-much-debt-drove-his-biggest-casino-aground/2016/01/18/f67cedc2-9ac8-11e5-8917-653b65c809eb_story.html?utm_term=.579f8759753e His mismanagement is hardly a secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, homersapien said: Perhaps you should look into the details of this bankruptcy: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/nyregion/donald-trump-atlantic-city.html http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/donald-trump-atlantic-city-bankruptcy/ https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all http://www.npr.org/2016/03/17/470806232/opening-the-books-on-donald-trumps-business-deals-in-atlantic-city https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/trumps-bad-bet-how-too-much-debt-drove-his-biggest-casino-aground/2016/01/18/f67cedc2-9ac8-11e5-8917-653b65c809eb_story.html?utm_term=.579f8759753e His mismanagement is hardly a secret. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/21/carly-fiorina/trumps-four-bankruptcies/ Great biased sources Homer. Here is a link from politifact, where I've gotten some of my info from. Trump’s four bankruptcies all happened within the past 25 years. That’s a lot, said Stephen Lubben, a leading expert in corporate finance and professor at Seton Hall School of Law. But to be fair, the gaming industry has been struggling the past few years, he added, and three out of four of Trump’s bankruptcies were tied to casinos. It’s not fair to put all the blame on Trump for the four bankruptcies because he’s acting as any investor would. Investors often own many non-integrated companies, which they fund by taking on debt, and some of them inevitably file for bankruptcy, said Adam Levitin, a law professor at Georgetown University. He added that people typically wouldn’t personally blame former Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney or investor Warren Buffett for individual failures within their investment companies, Bain Capital and Berkshire Hathaway, respectively. "The only difference is that Trump puts his name on his companies, which means people associate them with him, but he's not at all the leader in the bankruptcy space," Levitan said. "These bankruptcies were not defining moments for Trump and shouldn't color our view of him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,354 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/21/carly-fiorina/trumps-four-bankruptcies/ Great biased sources Homer. Here is a link from politifact, where I've gotten some of my info from. Trump’s four bankruptcies all happened within the past 25 years. That’s a lot, said Stephen Lubben, a leading expert in corporate finance and professor at Seton Hall School of Law. But to be fair, the gaming industry has been struggling the past few years, he added, and three out of four of Trump’s bankruptcies were tied to casinos. It’s not fair to put all the blame on Trump for the four bankruptcies because he’s acting as any investor would. Investors often own many non-integrated companies, which they fund by taking on debt, and some of them inevitably file for bankruptcy, said Adam Levitin, a law professor at Georgetown University. He added that people typically wouldn’t personally blame former Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney or investor Warren Buffett for individual failures within their investment companies, Bain Capital and Berkshire Hathaway, respectively. "The only difference is that Trump puts his name on his companies, which means people associate them with him, but he's not at all the leader in the bankruptcy space," Levitan said. "These bankruptcies were not defining moments for Trump and shouldn't color our view of him." What BS. Trump leveraged shaky loans to create a casino that had no chance of being able to support the debt. Lots of people were hurt - except of course for Trump, who structured the deal to ensure personal gain. The reporting of this episode has been covered by many reputable news sources. To write it off as coming from "biased sources" is truly delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveEmElle 1,559 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 4 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said: Chapter 11 is a sound business decision when a company is facing financial problems-it's better than the alternative, shutting down. The sources of financial problems vary - they can be beyond the control of the business. Apparently you're no Chapter 11 genius. No interest in helping others? Does creating jobs count? But then again, you'd probably never deem one of his ventures synallagmatic in any sense. Blanket statements that are EASILY undermined. Too much winning, you're tired of it Chapter 11 four times trying to beat your debts speaks to a severe character deficiency, not a genius business mind. I'm not a bankruptcy genius, you're right. I've managed to pay my bills. Creating jobs? What jobs has he created? I haven't seen any winning. Unless of course you count Mueller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 1 hour ago, homersapien said: What BS. Trump leveraged shaky loans to create a casino that had no chance of being able to support the debt. Lots of people were hurt - except of course for Trump, who structured the deal to ensure personal gain. The reporting of this episode has been covered by many reputable news sources. To write it off as coming from "biased sources" is truly delusional. haha boy Homer, adverse and reputable counters really set you off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said: Chapter 11 four times trying to beat your debts speaks to a severe character deficiency, not a genius business mind. I'm not a bankruptcy genius, you're right. I've managed to pay my bills. Creating jobs? What jobs has he created? I haven't seen any winning. Unless of course you count Mueller. Um, the employees employed under his ventures..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,764 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 1 hour ago, homersapien said: What BS. Trump leveraged shaky loans to create a casino that had no chance of being able to support the debt. Lots of people were hurt - except of course for Trump, who structured the deal to ensure personal gain. The reporting of this episode has been covered by many reputable news sources. To write it off as coming from "biased sources" is truly delusional. But even as his companies did poorly, Mr. Trump did well. He put up little of his own money, shifted personal debts to the casinos and collected millions of dollars in salary, bonuses and other payments. The burden of his failures fell on investors and others who had bet on his business acumen Of course, spread the risk or eliminate it. Most larger contractors broker today rather than build. Puts the risk on others. Casino business is a tough one I would imagine. Wouldn't you think so Homer? Bet there are few choir boys in it or investing in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,354 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said: But even as his companies did poorly, Mr. Trump did well. He put up little of his own money, shifted personal debts to the casinos and collected millions of dollars in salary, bonuses and other payments. The burden of his failures fell on investors and others who had bet on his business acumen Of course, spread the risk or eliminate it. Most larger contractors broker today rather than build. Puts the risk on others. Casino business is a tough one I would imagine. Wouldn't you think so Homer? Bet there are few choir boys in it or investing in it. More BS. He lost other people's money, not his. He profited personally, which he is quick to tell you. This is exactly why domestic banks ceased to offer him financing and why he started laundering Russian oligarch money. You really need to read up on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDavE 332 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 You really need to bring all the evidence of Trump's laundering Russian money to the front. The DNC would pay you millions..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,354 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 8 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said: haha boy Homer, adverse and reputable counters really set you off It's true. It was able to carry the debt through the summer when crowds were large, but once cold weather came, it wouldn't come close to being able to service the debt when the summer crowds dropped off. None of this was a surprise. Anyone who understood the business knew this way before it happened. It was destined to fail. He didn't understand the business to begin with and then just plowed ahead against advice (while making sure he would profit regardless). Here's an interview with the guy who was v.p. of the Trump Plaza Casino, Atlantic City: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-frontline-interview-jack-odonnell/ The FRONTLINE Interview: Jack O’Donnell Hired in 1987 as Vice President of Trump Plaza casino in Atlantic City, Jack O’Donnell would become a critic of Donald Trump. He says he became particularly disillusioned with his boss after a helicopter crash in 1989 killed two casino executives. Business soon soured for Trump in Atlantic City. O’Donnell says Trump began “blaming these problems on two people that had died while working for him.” Though he was president of Trump Plaza and liked his job, O’Donnell left in 1990, wrote a critical book, “Trumped!” and says he moved on, rarely discussing his experience with his former boss. In his interview, O’Donnell discusses why he thinks Trump failed in Atlantic City, why he declined interviews about Donald Trump for 25 years, and why he is speaking out now. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-frontline-interview-jack-odonnell/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,811 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Tim Miller @Timodc -POTUS hires campaign manager known to have corrupt Russia ties -Russia then hacks opposing campaign -POTUS praises hack -Manager indicted 8:51 AM · Oct 30, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveEmElle 1,559 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 17 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said: Um, the employees employed under his ventures..... You mean the ones he refused to pay? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, GiveEmElle said: You mean the ones he refused to pay? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/ I mean employees. Do you understand that concept? Someone starts a business, people work there... thus, jobs created. For example, I stayed in Trump Hotel. People worked there. Those people are called employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,354 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said: I mean employees. Do you understand that concept? Someone starts a business, people work there... thus, jobs created. For example, I stayed in Trump Hotel. People worked there. Those people are called employees. Yeah, but they were probably paid weekly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, homersapien said: Yeah, but they were probably paid weekly. Elle was unaware that Trump created jobs, Homer. She didn't know he was a business owner. I'm just trying to help out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,354 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, NolaAuTiger said: Elle was unaware that Trump created jobs, Homer. She didn't know he was a business owner. I'm just trying to help out. Trump has a long history of stiffing people. People get hurt in bankruptcies, but not Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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