Lindsey Talks Offense

[BigWhiskey91 632]

3 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

I would have rather heard: It's my job to put points on the board, regardless who the opponent is.

Fair enough!

[ToraGirl 5,498]

Absolutely. My job is pressure-filled with accountability, although by God's grace, I am my niche and the results (again, His credit) are . That's one reason why the excuses are so hard to take. All of us, student or workplace, are under some sort of accountability...just part of life, schooling, employment.

Just do something else...but the bag of tricks (that work) seems to be fair to partly cloudy.

[AUIH1 1,515]

Lindsey sounds just like a Gus yes man.  I could almost see Gus pulling the strings to his puppet as Lindsey spoke nonsense.

wde

[corchjay 5,311]

I don't understand the frustration with coach speak.  Or how someone answers a fricking question in a press conference.  Give me a break.

The biggest complaint I've seen is coach speak and wondering why we haven't thrown to the middle field and intermediate routes.   Well he answered it.  He said it's probably the odd front and single high coverage.  I guess he should have answered it like well we plan to attack it by flooding a certain area with a RB, TE and slot at the hash on the field side of the defense.  Our opponents would never see it coming then.  

[1913-14 263]

2 hours ago, corchjay said:

I don't understand the frustration with coach speak.  Or how someone answers a fricking question in a press conference.  Give me a break.

The biggest complaint I've seen is coach speak and wondering why we haven't thrown to the middle field and intermediate routes.   Well he answered it.  He said it's probably the odd front and single high coverage.  I guess he should have answered it like well we plan to attack it by flooding a certain area with a RB, TE and slot at the hash on the field side of the defense.  Our opponents would never see it coming then.  

Coach I agree with you most times but what I heard him say was...he didn't know how to attack the cover 1...I think that is pretty weak. As for tight-end...the Harris kid should be targeted...if Lindsey doesn't know how I am sure you, Bird or I could help him...

I loved your assessment of Coach Steele...hopefully he will self scout and break some tendencies the next 4 weeks...

 

[steeleagle 2,945]

2 hours ago, corchjay said:

I don't understand the frustration with coach speak.  Or how someone answers a fricking question in a press conference.  Give me a break.

The biggest complaint I've seen is coach speak and wondering why we haven't thrown to the middle field and intermediate routes.   Well he answered it.  He said it's probably the odd front and single high coverage.  I guess he should have answered it like well we plan to attack it by flooding a certain area with a RB, TE and slot at the hash on the field side of the defense.  Our opponents would never see it coming then.  

the bottom line, regardless of who on here wants a coach to be more specific, is that they didn't throw over the middle or the soft zones of any plays. Its been that way in other games too, so forget about CCL's press conference's lack of detail or excuses some of giving for a lack of,  this offense has in many cases not utilized the open areas of the field, or allowed Stidham to check down to safer, more productive plays, (and that is coming from NFL color analysts covering our games).

[CountStandya 81]

I would like to ask why is slayton targeted more than any WR when he has a 32 percent catch rate.

[corchjay 5,311]

I think the analysts are referring to hot routes and check downs.  Not attacking the middle of the field.  The deep middle is still the middle.  

The shallow middle is just a place a lot of OCs try to stay away from especially if you have a geeked up QB.  They tend to over throw (throw to hard) or release high and stay high over the middle.  Neither of which you want.  Plus as Chip said maybe Stidham is making the correct read on the coverage and not throwing middle based on coverage. 

There is no perfect offense just like there isn't a perfect defense.  What you do want is great effort and execution. 

However,  I do agree if we are overly abundantly going 4 verticals then there is a problem as blitz and pass rush can affect it.  Ways to counter are WR screen and RB screen.  Both of which is in the playbook. 

[corchjay 5,311]

Breakdown of pass plays first half of Arkansas -  

I'm trying to see the routes of the WRs.  I can't see all routes because I'm breaking down from TV recording.  A couple things to note.  Quick passes or quick passing game doesn't require a hot or check down route built in.  You're looking for 3-7 yards gained or a broken tackle big play.

P1 - 5 yard out to R. Davis, poor throw low Incomplete

P2 - 5 yd stop route D. Slayton

P3 - Touch pass Stove Jet Motion

P4 - WR screen D. Slayton - big play

P5 - Corner route Hastings 21 yards , R. Davis was hot route

P6 - RPO R. Davis 5 yards

P7 - Deep look, R. Davis short route (hot) but covered, weird shuffle pass to Cox

P8 - fake toss sweep bootleg perfect throw to Slayton in the endzone droppped

P9 - Fake WR screen, come back to KJ on running back screen 13 yards but short of the goal line

P10 - Quick pass R. Davis 3 yards

P11 - NCM Deep slant 28 yards a little under thrown.  KJ was hot route 

P12 - PRO R. Davis 4 yards

P13 - out to hastings.  Interception.  Had NMC short of first down on stop route,  late throwing the out

P14 - Quick sitdown/stop route to D. Slayton poor throw bounces off a diving attempt

P15 - shallow crossing route in front of line backers R. Davis, behind the line backers crossing route D. Slayon, wheel route D. Barrett,  NCM Post to clear the route for Slayton.  Throw a hair high Slayton another drop.

P16 - 10 yard out Incomplete R. Davis, KJ was short same side for a hot, backside/blindside pressure. Hit while throwing. Incomplete

P17 - Roll out 10 yard come back R. Davis

P18 - 7 yard come back R. Davis

So I'm not sure what area of the field our pass game isn't attacking.  Quick pass game has been to the outside not the slant.  I get it.  We aren't very good at it obviously.  I remember us trying one time and NCM letting the DB beat him to the spot for an INT.  Would you throw a quick slant to D. Slayton with his hands? nope not me.  NCM already let some bully him out of the way.  R. Davis or Hastings would get killed on slants.  Canella?  nope not me when he drops half that hits him in the hands.

 

[BigWhiskey91 632]

9 hours ago, CountStandya said:

I would like to ask why is slayton targeted more than any WR when he has a 32 percent catch rate.

Similar reason to why we targeted Sammie coates as often as we did. He is our fast big play threat. When he makes catches, they are usually for big plays.

[BigWhiskey91 632]

8 hours ago, corchjay said:

Breakdown of pass plays first half of Arkansas -  

I'm trying to see the routes of the WRs.  I can't see all routes because I'm breaking down from TV recording.  A couple things to note.  Quick passes or quick passing game doesn't require a hot or check down route built in.  You're looking for 3-7 yards gained or a broken tackle big play.

P1 - 5 yard out to R. Davis, poor throw low Incomplete

P2 - 5 yd stop route D. Slayton

P3 - Touch pass Stove Jet Motion

P4 - WR screen D. Slayton - big play

P5 - Corner route Hastings 21 yards , R. Davis was hot route

P6 - RPO R. Davis 5 yards

P7 - Deep look, R. Davis short route (hot) but covered, weird shuffle pass to Cox

P8 - fake toss sweep bootleg perfect throw to Slayton in the endzone droppped

P9 - Fake WR screen, come back to KJ on running back screen 13 yards but short of the goal line

P10 - Quick pass R. Davis 3 yards

P11 - NCM Deep slant 28 yards a little under thrown.  KJ was hot route 

P12 - PRO R. Davis 4 yards

P13 - out to hastings.  Interception.  Had NMC short of first down on stop route,  late throwing the out

P14 - Quick sitdown/stop route to D. Slayton poor throw bounces off a diving attempt

P15 - shallow crossing route in front of line backers R. Davis, behind the line backers crossing route D. Slayon, wheel route D. Barrett,  NCM Post to clear the route for Slayton.  Throw a hair high Slayton another drop.

P16 - 10 yard out Incomplete R. Davis, KJ was short same side for a hot, backside/blindside pressure. Hit while throwing. Incomplete

P17 - Roll out 10 yard come back R. Davis

P18 - 7 yard come back R. Davis

So I'm not sure what area of the field our pass game isn't attacking.  Quick pass game has been to the outside not the slant.  I get it.  We aren't very good at it obviously.  I remember us trying one time and NCM letting the DB beat him to the spot for an INT.  Would you throw a quick slant to D. Slayton with his hands? nope not me.  NCM already let some bully him out of the way.  R. Davis or Hastings would get killed on slants.  Canella?  nope not me when he drops half that hits him in the hands.

 

KD and NCM are really our only guys that could be consistent threats on the slant. KD is gone and NCM has been beat on the slant before (Mercer). 

I wish we had access to more all22 tape as it would help see what’s happening on the field. On NCMs catch against Arkansas, I’m pretty sure that it was a square in and he continued to cross the field. Stidham worked through his progression and saw him late but delivered a touch pass which allowed NCM to go up and grab it.

There have been some plays where we went deep and you could see that we had other receivers running corner routes that were open as well. But if the deep ball is there, Stidham is going to take it. 

I really think that KDs dismissal screwed with our passing attack, especially with LSU due to the short notice. Our most consistent catchers that get targets are RD and Hastings which like you said, would get killed on quick slants. More all22 would absolutely help show more of the big picture.

[BigWhiskey91 632]

10 hours ago, corchjay said:

I think the analysts are referring to hot routes and check downs.  Not attacking the middle of the field.  The deep middle is still the middle.  

The shallow middle is just a place a lot of OCs try to stay away from especially if you have a geeked up QB.  They tend to over throw (throw to hard) or release high and stay high over the middle.  Neither of which you want.  Plus as Chip said maybe Stidham is making the correct read on the coverage and not throwing middle based on coverage. 

There is no perfect offense just like there isn't a perfect defense.  What you do want is great effort and execution. 

However,  I do agree if we are overly abundantly going 4 verticals then there is a problem as blitz and pass rush can affect it.  Ways to counter are WR screen and RB screen.  Both of which is in the playbook. 

Yeah, it’s not like Malzahn doesn’t have these routes or concepts in his offense. A quick look at the 2014 Arkansas game showed JJ tearing Arkansas a new one with slants to Duke and a post to Uzomah. I know Stidham has shown he has a big arm, but he has had situations where he has over and under thrown passes which would be devastating over the middle on the shallow crossing routes. Malzahn has shown that he will avoid turnovers if possible which is fine. Hopefully as Stidham continues to play and get reps, that comfort level will get there and allow for some more chances on some shallow crossing type passes.

[ArgoEagle 1,767]

10 hours ago, CountStandya said:

I would like to ask why is slayton targeted more than any WR when he has a 32 percent catch rate.

To me looks like Slayton is the best route runner we have and gets open the most, but doesn't catch the passes like he should, and NCM is our most talented receiver at catching the ball, but can't seem to get open. If we could have a hybrid receiver that could get open like "Slayton and catch the ball like NCM does we would have the perfect receiver. I kid. Seriously though, I believe someone needs to work with NCM on his routes so he can be our stud receiver and live up to his potential.

[BigWhiskey91 632]

1 hour ago, ArgoEagle said:

To me looks like Slayton is the best route runner we have and gets open the most, but doesn't catch the passes like he should, and NCM is our most talented receiver at catching the ball, but can't seem to get open. If we could have a hybrid receiver that could get open like "Slayton and catch the ball like NCM does we would have the perfect receiver. I kid. Seriously though, I believe someone needs to work with NCM on his routes so he can be our stud receiver and live up to his potential.

Slayton and NCM will hopefully be the next Sammie and Duke!

 

Edit: and by that I mean performance wise. Hopefully NCm doesn’t go on a Mike Tyson’s Punch Out spree lol

[WFE12 9,191]

15 hours ago, AUIH1 said:

Lindsey sounds just like a Gus yes man.  I could almost see Gus pulling the strings to his puppet as Lindsey spoke nonsense.

wde

 

[Scotty2Hotty 520]

18 hours ago, gr82b4au said:

CL was not a very impressive hire. He is a glorified GA that knows how to run the Gus system. Basically Gus hired a "mini-me".

I stated this after the hire (former assistant that was a fallback plan / a yes man) and was told I was wrong by an "insider" here. 

Gus' offensive hires have always been former colleagues/players of his. Lindsey is simply another in a long line. 

If Lindsey is truly unhappy as "insiders" have indicated, I suppose Gus will have to promote Kodi to OC as he's running out of his ilk. 

[steeleagle 2,945]

54 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

I stated this after the hire (former assistant that was a fallback plan / a yes man) and was told I was wrong by an "insider" here. 

Gus' offensive hires have always been former colleagues/players of his. Lindsey is simply another in a long line. 

If Lindsey is truly unhappy as "insiders" have indicated, I suppose Gus will have to promote Kodi to OC as he's running out of his ilk. 

Just because he 'may be' unhappy doesn't mean he wants out. 

He had to expect that there would be growing pains with this offense, and when your HC's rep is with a unique running scheme, that he designed, the OC is not going to dominate the offense play sheet and what he wants to call. Lindsey knew him from his days here before, just by observing Malzahn in action.

I think what some hear behind the scenes is typical of many staffs.  

[Tiger 8,818]

This sounds like a man who was instructed what he's allowed to divulge and what he's not allowed to

[IronMan70 3,277]

19 hours ago, corchjay said:

I don't understand the frustration with coach speak.  Or how someone answers a fricking question in a press conference.  Give me a break.

The biggest complaint I've seen is coach speak and wondering why we haven't thrown to the middle field and intermediate routes.   Well he answered it.  He said it's probably the odd front and single high coverage.  I guess he should have answered it like well we plan to attack it by flooding a certain area with a RB, TE and slot at the hash on the field side of the defense.  Our opponents would never see it coming then.  

Yes, they all use coach speak. So if he wants to answer with, 'the defense probably dictated the play calling', that's fine no problem there. But when a defense continuously brings up a safety to counter his running game and he doesn't attack the area vacated by that safety, it is a contradiction to his own concept. The issue is not with him, it's with the reporters for not asking the obvious follow up question(s) for him to explain that contradiction. 

[steeleagle 2,945]

1 minute ago, IronMan70 said:

Yes, they all use coach speak. So, if he wants to answer with 'the defense probably dictated the play calling' that's fine. But when a defense continuously brings up a safety to counter his running game and he doesn't attack the area vacated by that safety, it is a contradiction of his own concept. The issue is not with him, it's with the reporter for not asking the obvious follow up question for him to explain that contradiction. 

That is what bugs me the most. The reporter asks a soft question about an obvious issue in the offense. Coach responds with coach speak, then the reporter doesn't followup with the SPECIFIC question we want all answered. 

Or the reporter asks a specific question in regards to an offensive situation, and coach gives coach speak, but reporter still doesnt persist with, and ask for a specific answer. 

 

[Tiger 8,818]

Guys, just because he says something doesn't mean he believes it. Don't set yourself up to get trolled by coaches in press conferences. They literally, and this staff in particular on offense, only give answers so they can get to the next question.

[BigWhiskey91 632]

20 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

That is what bugs me the most. The reporter asks a soft question about an obvious issue in the offense. Coach responds with coach speak, then the reporter doesn't followup with the SPECIFIC question we want all answered. 

Or the reporter asks a specific question in regards to an offensive situation, and coach gives coach speak, but reporter still doesnt persist with, and ask for a specific answer. 

 

It was James Crepea that asked the question.  He essentially asked why did his offense put up numbers on garbage teams but disappeared against Good teams.

I have no problem with how Lindsey responded based on the history of Crepea. No coach is going to dog out other teams, and Lindsey certainly isn’t going to come out and say the full on reason for why things are happening the way they are. In the end, his response wasn’t incorrect either. It is harder to score on teams with better talent. 

[Tiger 8,818]

I gotta say I respect Crepea a lot more now since he bombarded Gus with stats regarding the current AU O, Lashlee's current O at Uconn, and CCL's former offenses. Bout damn time someone stopped lobbing softballs at him

[steeleagle 2,945]

1 minute ago, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

It was James Crepea that asked the question.  He essentially asked why did his offense put up numbers on garbage teams but disappeared against Good teams.

I have no problem with how Lindsey responded based on the history of Crepea. No coach is going to dog out other teams, and Lindsey certainly isn’t going to come out and say the full on reason for why things are happening the way they are. In the end, his response wasn’t incorrect either. It is harder to score on teams with better talent. 

THat's not the question I was referring to. It may not have been Crepea, but another AL.com reporter. It was about the middle of the field pass plays. 

I just have a hard time believing that a coach can't give out general offensive play info, when all these SEC coaches watch film on us and the plays we run. It's not a secret. Every game is on tv, and who knows if someone is at these games filming us anyway. 

[CountStandya 81]

7 hours ago, steeleagle said:

That is what bugs me the most. The reporter asks a soft question about an obvious issue in the offense. Coach responds with coach speak, then the reporter doesn't followup with the SPECIFIC question we want all answered. 

Or the reporter asks a specific question in regards to an offensive situation, and coach gives coach speak, but reporter still doesnt persist with, and ask for a specific answer. 

 

I guarantee you if they did ask a more specific question to clarify the first....they would not be allowed in the media room anymore. They would be labeled a hater and told to have a more positive attitude.