Lindsey Talks Offense

[auburn4ever 1,266]

He's only calling maybe 15% or 20% of the play calling.

[steeleagle 2,945]

16 minutes ago, auburn4ever said:

He's only calling maybe 15% or 20% of the play calling.

How do come by those numbers? Just a guess? 

[JDUBB4AU 5,112]

On 10/25/2017 at 10:29 AM, RunInRed said:

SMH at this one ...

 

No Sh*t Sherlock. He needs to go with Gus. Water is wet. Ice is cold . The sky is blue chip . Man you are a joke 

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

7 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

How do come by those numbers? Just a guess? 

Oh belive it Chip

is calling all the plays (wait for it) on the list Gus gives him ?

[steeleagle 2,945]

25 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

Oh belive it Chip

is calling all the plays (wait for it) on the list Gus gives him ?

So Chip is working from a post-it note?

[CountStandya 81]

21 hours ago, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

Similar reason to why we targeted Sammie coates as often as we did. He is our fast big play threat. When he makes catches, they are usually for big plays.

I disagree. While Coates had hands of stone as well, we didn't have the options we do now. Back then we basically had three WR's  Coates that could only catch the circus grab but a normal catch was like UH? Duke who was sketchy at best. And....I had one catch in my life that mattered Ricardo Louis.

Now with NCM , Hastings, R Davis, E Stove and even Sal  we have some solid choices that we haven't had in a while..I think you play the guy who is consistent . Slayton has the most passes thrown his way out of all WR's and the lowest catch rate....that's just bad coaching. Either you address his problem by making him work with a ball machine more or address the problem with a....."hey if you don't catch'em we won't throw'em your way"  I believe in second chances and I hope he improves but we need not waste good thrown passes to a player who has that low of a catch rate. '

It's just common sense.

[steeleagle 2,945]

6 hours ago, CountStandya said:

I disagree. While Coates had hands of stone as well, we didn't have the options we do now. Back then we basically had three WR's  Coates that could only catch the circus grab but a normal catch was like UH? Duke who was sketchy at best. And....I had one catch in my life that mattered Ricardo Louis.

Now with NCM , Hastings, R Davis, E Stove and even Sal  we have some solid choices that we haven't had in a while..I think you play the guy who is consistent . Slayton has the most passes thrown his way out of all WR's and the lowest catch rate....that's just bad coaching. Either you address his problem by making him work with a ball machine more or address the problem with a....."hey if you don't catch'em we won't throw'em your way"  I believe in second chances and I hope he improves but we need not waste good thrown passes to a player who has that low of a catch rate. '

It's just common sense.

You've got to be kidding me? His lowest catch rate is because of bad coaching? Sorry, that is totally wrong. 

Have you watched guys in the NFL..there are guys just like Slayton, who still drop too many balls. They are still in the NFL because they bring other strong attributes to their play. You think they havent been required to catch 100 balls a day to try to get better? ofc they have.

Sometimes, it simply is a mental thing, or it could be how they catch the ball inconsistently, their hands...eye coordination. Who knows. 

Even in college these WRs are getting plenty of practice with ball catching. 

The reason he continues to be thrown balls is because he probably runs the best routes. THe QB knows they can count on him being open. I think the problem with NCM and maybe even Stove is they don't run disciplined routes. Listen to the coaches talk...and they say these guys are getting better. They are saying that because they lack consistency in all aspects of what is expected of the WR, and Slayton evidently is the most consistent in ALL aspects of their role, not just his lack of consistent catches. 

If you have noticed Hastings gets a lot of balls too. Why because he runs disciplined routes and catches everything. The problem is he is just so small, if a good DB is on him, he catch the balls in traffic well.

 

[ertrader 197]

Nobody has mentioned it, but Gus has said repeatedly that the primary thing he is looking for is blocking. I think if you want to understand who is playing or not and why, start with that. 

[BigWhiskey91 632]

On 10/26/2017 at 2:01 PM, steeleagle said:

THat's not the question I was referring to. It may not have been Crepea, but another AL.com reporter. It was about the middle of the field pass plays. 

Ahh my bad then.

On that note though, I know off hand of two pass plays that contained routes over the middle in the Arkansas game. The pass to NCM was thrown late, but NCM had to cross the whole formation and caught the ball on the opposite side we started. 

On the dropped Slayton TD in the redzone, we ran had NCM again running a shallow drag route. He wasnt the primary receiver and ended up being held by the MLB on that play. 

We have some pass plays over the middle, but we just dont run seems really at all, and our slant/skinny post game isnt happening often either. To really know what we are running in terms of route though, we need the All22 footage to chart the routes being run. I've noticed that we seem to have way more concept based calls this year than I have noticed in the past.

[BigWhiskey91 632]

8 hours ago, CountStandya said:

I disagree. While Coates had hands of stone as well, we didn't have the options we do now. Back then we basically had three WR's  Coates that could only catch the circus grab but a normal catch was like UH? Duke who was sketchy at best. And....I had one catch in my life that mattered Ricardo Louis.

Now with NCM , Hastings, R Davis, E Stove and even Sal  we have some solid choices that we haven't had in a while..I think you play the guy who is consistent . Slayton has the most passes thrown his way out of all WR's and the lowest catch rate....that's just bad coaching. Either you address his problem by making him work with a ball machine more or address the problem with a....."hey if you don't catch'em we won't throw'em your way"  I believe in second chances and I hope he improves but we need not waste good thrown passes to a player who has that low of a catch rate. '

It's just common sense.

Sal hasn't been consistent catching either. Duke was more sure handed than a majority of our existing receivers now. The issue trying to compare any of those guys though is that really Slayton, Ryan Davis, and Hastings get the majority of the targets. Stove gets the touch/shovel pass "targets" but doesn't get the attention the others get. 

I do think you are selling Ricardo Louis short. He was very inconsistent, but he really didnt get a big workload until 2015. He had over 700yds receiving and had two games of over 100yds receiving. He was huge in the Kentucky and Ole Miss games, and made some big time catches against Arkansas to help get us to OT. 

So far with the way our 2017 pass offense has executed, we are throwing either within 5 yards or throwing deep. Slaytons speed and proved time and time again that he can get behind coverage and make teams pay on missed tackles in the screen game. While I agree he isn't a possession receiver due to his inconsistent hands, we really don't have a WR to replace his role. Stove could step up in the screen game, but he has been just as inconsistent catching downfield as well.

[BigWhiskey91 632]

1 hour ago, steeleagle said:

You've got to be kidding me? His lowest catch rate is because of bad coaching? Sorry, that is totally wrong. 

Have you watched guys in the NFL..there are guys just like Slayton, who still drop too many balls. They are still in the NFL because they bring other strong attributes to their play. You think they havent been required to catch 100 balls a day to try to get better? ofc they have.

Sometimes, it simply is a mental thing, or it could be how they catch the ball inconsistently, their hands...eye coordination. Who knows. 

Even in college these WRs are getting plenty of practice with ball catching. 

The reason he continues to be thrown balls is because he probably runs the best routes. THe QB knows they can count on him being open. I think the problem with NCM and maybe even Stove is they don't run disciplined routes. Listen to the coaches talk...and they say these guys are getting better. They are saying that because they lack consistency in all aspects of what is expected of the WR, and Slayton evidently is the most consistent in ALL aspects of their role, not just his lack of consistent catches. 

If you have noticed Hastings gets a lot of balls too. Why because he runs disciplined routes and catches everything. The problem is he is just so small, if a good DB is on him, he catch the balls in traffic well.

 

Exactly. Each of our receivers have roles. The ones that get the most playing time are usually the more consistent blockers. Hastings is great because he is very quick from a stand still which allows great separation on cuts. So double moves and option routes have been his strong suit. 

Stove and Slayton both have great speed, and its likely that Slayton has been more consistent with his hands and route running in practice. Him and Stidham seem to have a connection so they will continue to push that. 

While I agree that the lack of NCM has been disappointing, I cant help but blame it on either how the plays shake out or how Stidham goes through his progression. There have been very few times where Stidham has thrown to NCM on his initial read. There have been a few plays where NCM is running shallow routes or intermediate routes, but Stidham went deep because it was open. KD was more of the same as well. 

[steeleagle 2,945]

42 minutes ago, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

Exactly. Each of our receivers have roles. The ones that get the most playing time are usually the more consistent blockers. Hastings is great because he is very quick from a stand still which allows great separation on cuts. So double moves and option routes have been his strong suit. 

Stove and Slayton both have great speed, and its likely that Slayton has been more consistent with his hands and route running in practice. Him and Stidham seem to have a connection so they will continue to push that. 

While I agree that the lack of NCM has been disappointing, I cant help but blame it on either how the plays shake out or how Stidham goes through his progression. There have been very few times where Stidham has thrown to NCM on his initial read. There have been a few plays where NCM is running shallow routes or intermediate routes, but Stidham went deep because it was open. KD was more of the same as well. 

I do wonder too if part of the issue is Stidham's decision making. It's possible NCM is not his first or second read, and Stidham doesnt feel comfortable throwing into windows or pockets. He likes the outside stuff and deep stuff maybe? 

It reminds me of Ben Roethlisberger of the Steelers. In his first few years, it made me so mad when it would just be 2nd or 3rd and short (less than 6 yds), and he would throw a deep ball, and we would have to punt. Bruce Arians was the OC, so I don't know if it was the scheme, or Ben wanting the big play. When all you need is to move the chains and get into an offensive rhythm.

So, I don't know if JS is pulling the trigger and afraid to throw an INT, in these over the middle plays? or is it the scheme that hinders shorter more high percentage throws?

[IronMan70 3,277]

I've noticed when Slayton does drop the ball it's usually when there is a defender close to him. It could have something to do with concentration when he is in those situations. In the open field or on a WR screen he normally makes great catches. 

Then we have NCM who catches everything near him but doesn't have Slayton's speed and can't get open as easily. Seems like back shoulder throws along the sideline would be the perfect throw for a WR like NCM.