Goodbye, Al Franken

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

Goodbye Al. 

http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/

[AUDub 11,131]

Just now, NolaAuTiger said:

Goodbye Al. 

http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/

Yeah I linked it in the Moore thread. It's bad. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

2 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

Yeah I linked it in the Moore thread. It's bad. 

My bad BB. Didn't see it.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

3 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

Yeah I linked it in the Moore thread. It's bad. 

It disturbing how common this is starting to become. 

[AUDub 11,131]

33 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

My bad Ben. Didn't see it.

Just using it as a catch all at the moment. This probably deserves it's own thread. 

Franken needs to be held accountable.

32 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

It disturbing how common this is starting to become. 

We're really ripping the band aid off here. 

[AUDub 11,131]

His "apology."

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/16/al-franken-apologizes-to-journalist-who-says-he-groped-her.html?__source=twitter|main

[aubiefifty 16,705]

al should and will be held accountable. i know this is a pipe dream but i think pols should role models for people to look up to.

[AUDub 11,131]

41 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

It disturbing how common this is starting to become. 

To expand on this, abuse and harassment have always been common. People in positions of power taking advantage of others is one of the oldest themes in human history. That's what's disturbing.

What isn't disturbing, is the cultural shift we find ourselves in the midst of, where women are empowered to come forward rather than suffer in silence.

I, for one, take a lot of pleasure in this newfound empowerment of women and the exposure of creeps. Some anvils need to be dropped, after all.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Pretty weak apology by Franken.  Wouldn't be shocked if he's forced out over this.

[AUDub 11,131]

6 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Pretty weak apology by Franken.  Wouldn't be shocked if he's forced out over this.

This one is better

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/931216039135862790

I'm suddenly comfortable with the idea of him resigning, however. 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

I don't necessarily think every single person who did something like this in the past should be forced to resign.  The specifics and severity of the conduct should come into play.  And just as important, their response to it when their accuser comes forward.  I have a lot more grace for someone who, when accused, immediately responds with a full and proper apology compared to someone who goes into hardcore deny mode, only to finally admit it once the number of accusers becomes too many or some damaging evidence is produced.

[AUDub 11,131]

5 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I don't necessarily think every single person who did something like this in the past should be forced to resign.  The specifics and severity of the conduct should come into play.  And just as important, their response to it when their accuser comes forward.  I have a lot more grace for someone who, when accused, immediately responds with a full and proper apology compared to someone who goes into hardcore deny mode, only to finally admit it once the number of accusers becomes too many or some damaging evidence is produced.

Prepare yourself for copious quantities of whataboutism from the right though. 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

1 minute ago, Bigbens42 said:

Prepare yourself for copious quantities of whataboutism from the right though. 

Yeah, I hear you.  If he is forced to resign, so be it.  I'm not crying any tears for him.  

[AUDub 11,131]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

Yeah, I hear you.  If he is forced to resign, so be it.  I'm not crying any tears for him.  

And I really do hate it, because from my POV I think he's been doing a fine job as a Senator, what with trying to maintain net neutrality and serving as point man on Sessions.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

1 minute ago, Bigbens42 said:

And I really do hate it, because from my POV I think he's been doing a fine job as a Senator, what with trying to maintain net neutrality and serving as point man on Sessions.

If I am a man in any position of power, especially politics, right now and I've done anything like this several years ago, I get out in front of it.  I draw up an immediate public apology for having acted inappropriately in the past and that I am a much different person than I was in my earlier years now.  At the same time, I'd be privately reaching out to any woman I specifically remember and contact to apologize personally.  If you let something like this sit in hopes that they won't say anything, it's your funeral.

[AUDub 11,131]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

If I am a man in any position of power, especially politics, right now and I've done anything like this several years ago, I get out in front of it.  I draw up an immediate public apology for having acted inappropriately in the past and that I am a much different person than I was in my earlier years now.  At the same time, I'd be privately reaching out to any woman I specifically remember and contact to apologize personally.  If you let something like this sit in hopes that they won't say anything, it's your funeral.

Exactly this.

One wonders just how many are on pins and needles right now. I'm sure it's a large number. 

[Strychnine 1,802]

17 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

If I am a man in any position of power, especially politics, right now and I've done anything like this several years ago, I get out in front of it.  I draw up an immediate public apology for having acted inappropriately in the past and that I am a much different person than I was in my earlier years now.  At the same time, I'd be privately reaching out to any woman I specifically remember and contact to apologize personally.  If you let something like this sit in hopes that they won't say anything, it's your funeral.

 

There is obviously a wave of momentum behind people coming out into the open about such things now, as there should be, and that is really the only act of self-preservation that may work.  Anyone that has any such skeletons in their closet would be wise to shed light on them now, rather than waiting for the skeletons to open the door.  Apologies tend to ring hollow when they are made reluctantly, and only out of necessity.

[alexava 6,973]

I do applaud the admission and apology. Like when Bush 41 apologized a few weeks ago without admission or denial. never dig a deeper grave.

Of all i have seen lately i would be most tempted to grope Leanne Tweeden myself. however that ain't my game. 

[metafour 4,958]

Zing.

[AUDub 11,131]

She accepted his apology, by the way. 

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/360709-woman-who-accused-franken-says-she-accepts-his-apology

 

[Auburn85 432]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/11/17/im-a-feminist-i-study-rape-culture-and-i-dont-want-al-franken-to-resign/?tid=pm_opinions_pop&utm_term=.fe4ca3344fad

 

Quote

 

I’m a feminist. I study rape culture. And I don’t want Al Franken to resign.

As a feminist and the author of a book on rape culture, I could reasonably be expected to lead the calls for Al Franken to step down, following allegations that he forced his tongue down a woman’s throat, accompanied by a photo of him grinning as he moves in to grope her breasts while she sleeps. It’s disgusting. He treated a sleeping woman as a comedy prop, no more human than the contents of Carrot Top’s trunk, and I firmly believe he should suffer social and professional consequences for it.

 

But I don’t believe resigning from his position is the only possible consequence, or the one that’s best for American women.

Cynics on both the right and left will presume I am passing by this particular steam tray on 2017’s smorgasbord of feminist outrage because Franken is a Democrat, and so am I. (I was even his proud constituent for two years.) In the most superficial sense, this is true. But it’s meaningless to say it’s because I am a Democrat without asking why I am a Democrat. If you understand what it means to be a Democrat today — that is, why it makes sense to vote blue over red in this highly polarized political environment — you can understand why it might not make the most sense to demand Franken’s resignation, effective immediately.

I am a Democrat because I am a feminist who lives under a two-party system, where one party consistently votes against the interests of women while the other sometimes does not. I am not a true believer in the party itself nor in any politician. I am a realist who recognizes that we get two viable choices, and Democrats are members of the only party positioned to pump the brakes on Republicans’ gleeful race toward Atwoodian dystopia. Meanwhile, I recognize that men’s harassment of and violence against women is a systemic issue, not a Democrat or Republican problem, a Hollywood problem, a sports problem, or a media problem. Its roots lie in a patriarchal culture that trains men to believe they are entitled to control women’s bodies —for sex, for sport, for childbearing, for comedy.

When you combine these things — an awareness that the Democratic Party is no more or less than best of two, and an understanding that men in power frequently exploit women — it becomes difficult to believe that Franken is the only sitting Democrat with a history of harassment, abuse or assault. The recent #metoo campaign demonstrated how normalized unwanted kissing and groping are in our culture. Donald Trump was caught on tape crudely admitting to both of those transgressions, and we made him our president. According to the CDC’s National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, 1 in 3 women experiences some sort of contact sexual violence in her life. Sexual harassment and assault are simply too widespread for Democrats to respond to Franken’s offense with only Franken in mind: We need to respond in a way that helps us develop a protocol for meaningful change.

It would feel good, momentarily, to see Franken resign and the Democratic governor of Minnesota, Mark Dayton, appoint a senator who has not (as far as we know) harmed women. If I believed for one second that Franken is the only Democrat in the Senate who has done something like this, with or without photographic evidence, I would see that as the best and most appropriate option. But in the world we actually live in, I’m betting that there will be more. And more after that. And they won’t all come from states with Democratic governors and a deep bench of progressive replacements. Some will, if ousted, have their successors chosen by Republicans.

In other words, if we set this precedent in the interest of demonstrating our party’s solidarity with harassed and abused women, we’re only going to drain the swamp of people who, however flawed, still regularly vote to protect women’s rights and freedoms. The legislative branch will remain chockablock with old, white Republican men who regard women chiefly as sex objects and unpaid housekeepers, and we’ll show them how staunchly Democrats oppose their misogynistic attitudes by handing them more power.

Isn’t that hypocritical? I hear you asking, Because Republicans won’t do the right thing, we shouldn’t, either? But if the short-term “right thing” leads to long-term political catastrophe for American women, I think we need to reconsider our definition of the right thing. I am in no way suggesting that we decline to hold Franken accountable for his offenses — only that we think in terms of consequences that might actually improve women’s lives going forward.

For example, if Franken genuinely wishes to be an ally to women, as he claimed in an expanded statement Thursday, here’s what I would like to see him do. First, cooperate fully with an ethics investigation, as promised. Second, declare as soon as possible that he will not run again in 2020, so other Democratic candidates for that seat have plenty of time to prepare their campaigns. Third, go on a listening tour to learn what the women of Minnesota — Native American women, Somali women, Hmong women, Karen women, disabled women, queer women, working-class women — most want him to fight for in his remaining time, and go to the mat for their needs. Accept that some women will not want to talk to him at all, or will only want to yell at him for being a pig. Go anyway.

After all that, I would like to see him support a qualified progressive woman, who will carry on that important work, to run for his seat. (If she won, she would be the second woman ever elected to represent Minnesota in the Senate. Minnesota has been a state since 1858.) Whether he does so publicly or behind the scenes will depend on the sincerity of his atonement and Minnesotans’ perception of same. If they forgive him, he can stump for her, but if they don’t, he can still offer fundraising expertise, connections and advice privately. He can leverage the many advantages of being an older, famous white man (which inevitably persist despite temporary ignominy) to elevate a progressive woman to the political height he once achieved.

Then, when (okay, if, but like I said: I’m a realist) another Democratic politician’s sexual misconduct is revealed, we can ask the same of him. Don’t just apologize and drop out of sight. Do penance. Live the values you campaigned on. Be a selfless champion for women’s rights.

There are, of course, limits to this formula. If a Democratic official is credibly accused of a violent assault, or if their alleged abuses relate to or involve their work in politics, we should demand their resignation and encourage a full investigation. As I write this, only one woman has alleged that Franken assaulted her; if her story emboldens others to tell theirs, and the senator is revealed to be a serial predator, then I wouldn’t want him in a position of power for one more minute. And if by some miracle, Republicans actually dostart holding their own accountable for sexual misconduct — instead of arguing about whether a grown man who preys on teenagers is fit for office — then most of my argument dissolves. In that happy circumstance, I would gladly throw all the sexist jerks in the sea, regardless of party affiliation.

But in a sharply divided political climate where toxic masculinity knows no party, yet is only ever acknowledged by one, we must think about how to minimize harm to women. One more empty apology and resignation, one more head on a pike, will not make American women safer or better off. Powerful men lifting up women’s concerns and supporting progressive women candidates, however, could be a real step toward changing the culture that makes victims of so many of us.

Kate Harding is co-editor of "Nasty Women: Feminism, Resistance, and Revolution in Trump's America" and co-host of the podcast Feminasty.

  Follow @kateharding

 

 

 

[homersapien 11,353]

At this point, I won't be surprised if some additional Franklin accusers appear - all fakes funded by the Russians.   

 

[homersapien 11,353]

Seriously - unless such additional informants done materialize - IMO, this falls into the category of a really big mistake and not a pattern.  He's basically reacted in the right ways.  What he did reflected our cultural problem instead of necessarily a personal pathology.

But I'm OK if he chooses to resign - fall on the sword for the party. 

I love the irony of white house making a big distinction between Frankin and Trump's (more numereous) charges as key - Franklin admitted guilt while Trump hasn't.   What a circus this countries political system has become!  

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

On 11/16/2017 at 12:06 PM, TitanTiger said:

I don't necessarily think every single person who did something like this in the past should be forced to resign.  The specifics and severity of the conduct should come into play.  And just as important, their response to it when their accuser comes forward.  I have a lot more grace for someone who, when accused, immediately responds with a full and proper apology compared to someone who goes into hardcore deny mode, only to finally admit it once the number of accusers becomes too many or some damaging evidence is produced.

So your view is that if it's just one person that accuses a politician of misconduct that they shouldn't resign as long as they apologize?

This is a serious question. I'm not being a smart aleck or sarcastic. I'm genuinely wanting a clear answer/standard because I don't want to be accused of misreading you.

[AUDub 11,131]

17 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

So your view is that if it's just one person that accuses a politician of misconduct that they shouldn't resign as long as they apologize?

This is a serious question. I'm not being a smart aleck or sarcastic. I'm genuinely wanting a clear answer/standard because I don't want to be accused of misreading you.

The nature of the offense and the nature of the apology, assuming they accused man's up and does so, should matter.