Goodbye, Al Franken

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

3 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

The nature of the offense and the nature of the apology, assuming they accused man's up and does so, should matter.

But again, is there a number of accusers that crosses a threshold for you? Is it 2 more more when it becomes unacceptable.

[homersapien 11,354]

17 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

But again, is there a number of accusers that crosses a threshold for you? Is it 2 more more when it becomes unacceptable.

Well, it matters a lot if the perp is denying it.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

Well, it matters a lot if the perp is denying it.

It also matters if there is evidence.

[AUDub 11,132]

 

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

Well, it matters a lot if the perp is denying it.

And if they're a serial predator. 

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

I've even heard some excuses for Franken that were like, "well he didn't actually grope her". So that makes it less offensive?

You can bet no apology would suffice if someone who wasn't in a position of power in the real world did a lewd gesture to a customer or co-worker and there was evidence to prove it.

It would have been interesting to have seen if Leann Tweeden had not released the photo first and had only just accused Franken of the misconduct. Would Franken have admitted to it or apologized without the evidence? Something tells me he wouldn't have. He was a sitting duck as soon as the photo began circulating. 

[homersapien 11,354]

1 minute ago, Auburnfan91 said:

It also matters if there is evidence.

No, actually having a lot of women come forth is significant.  Testimony is evidence.

[AUDub 11,132]

1 minute ago, Auburnfan91 said:

It also matters if there is evidence.

Multiple independent accusers, as is the case with Roy, are pretty damning, physical evidence or not, and this is the kind of behavior that doesn't typically leave much in the way of physical evidence besides first hand accounts.

[homersapien 11,354]

2 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

I've even heard some excuses for Franken that were like, "well he didn't actually grope her". So that makes it less offensive?

You can bet no apology would suffice if someone who wasn't in a position of power in the real world did a lewd gesture to a customer or co-worker and there was evidence to prove it.

It would have been interesting to have seen if Leann Tweeden had not released the photo first and had only just accused Franken of the misconduct. Would Franken have admitted to it or apologized without the evidence? Something tells me he wouldn't have. He was a sitting duck as soon as the photo began circulating. 

Something tells me he would have admitted it.

[AUDub 11,132]

6 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

I've even heard some excuses for Franken that were like, "well he didn't actually grope her". So that makes it less offensive?

Well you won't hear that here. His behaviour was unacceptable, full stop.

Quote

It would have been interesting to have seen if Leann Tweeden had not released the photo first and had only just accused Franken of the misconduct. Would Franken have admitted to it or apologized without the evidence? Something tells me he wouldn't have. He was a sitting duck as soon as the photo began circulating. 

Maybe. Louis CK fessed up pretty quick when the reports came out about his behavior. 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

1 hour ago, Auburnfan91 said:

So your view is that if it's just one person that accuses a politician of misconduct that they shouldn't resign as long as they apologize?

This is a serious question. I'm not being a smart aleck or sarcastic. I'm genuinely wanting a clear answer/standard because I don't want to be accused of misreading you.

I don't know if I'd lay it out exactly like that.  I guess I'm saying every situation is different and that in some cases depending on what occurred and whether the person owns up to it right away, I would at least be open to an accepted apology being the extent of it.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

37 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

But again, is there a number of accusers that crosses a threshold for you? Is it 2 more more when it becomes unacceptable.

I don't know if I have a line.  Maybe it is one vs more than one.  One seems like a one-time case of poor judgment.  After that it looks more like a pattern of behavior.

[DKW 86 7,413]

HOMEY:

Clinton:

Multiple Women.

Scads of Evidence.

Proven in Court.

Always Denied it, never apologized.

"Even Presidents have Private Lives." Well, up until you lie in a courtroom, about you having an entirely inappropriate sexual relationship with a subordinate in the workplace. That is THE definition of Harassment.

And your reaction to this is? 

[alexava 6,973]

49 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Clinton:

Multiple Women.

Scads of Evidence.

Proven in Court.

Always Denied it, never apologized.

 

And your reaction to this is? 

Who is this directed to 

[DKW 86 7,413]

40 minutes ago, alexava said:

Who is this directed to 

Homey. Look, The 600# Gorillas in the room are Clinton and Ted Kennedy. 

Clinton is a serial molester FROM, AND FOR, DECADES. 

Ted Kennedy killed a girl, lied his ass off about it, and didnt get so much as a slap on the wrist.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

6 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Homey. Look, The 600# Gorillas in the room are Clinton and Ted Kennedy. 

Clinton is a serial molester FROM, AND FOR, DECADES. 

Ted Kennedy killed a girl, lied his ass off about it, and didnt get so much as a slap on the wrist.

Yep there is a double standard at work for sure.

[homersapien 11,354]

9 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

HOMEY:

Clinton:

Multiple Women.

Scads of Evidence.

Proven in Court.

Always Denied it, never apologized.

"Even Presidents have Private Lives." Well, up until you lie in a courtroom, about you having an entirely inappropriate sexual relationship with a subordinate in the workplace. That is THE definition of Harassment.

And your reaction to this is? 

Positive?  

And why do you ask?

If you are trying to suggest I approved of Clinton's behavior, I didn't and I don't. 

In fact, I wish he had resigned.  Had he done so, it might have saved us from a lot of the insanity we are dealing with today, including Trump.

 

 

[homersapien 11,354]

7 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Homey. Look, The 600# Gorillas in the room are Clinton and Ted Kennedy. 

Clinton is a serial molester FROM, AND FOR, DECADES. 

Ted Kennedy killed a girl, lied his ass off about it, and didnt get so much as a slap on the wrist.

So?

What's that got to do with me?   You seem to making wild, unsubstantiated assumptions.

Take this line of thought to the "Trash Talk" forum and I will tell you what I really think about you trying to make me into your straw man.

[homersapien 11,354]

1 hour ago, Proud Tiger said:

Yep there is a double standard at work for sure.

No doubt.  The defense of Roy Moore is about a good of an example as you can imagine.  

 

[homersapien 11,354]

Alabama Governor Plans To Vote For Roy Moore Despite Sexual Assault Accusations

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/alabama-governor-kay-ivey-roy-moore_us_5a0f51dee4b0dd63b1aa4447?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

 

 

[DKW 86 7,413]

18 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Positive?  

And why do you ask?

If you are trying to suggest I approved of Clinton's behavior, I didn't and I don't. 

In fact, I wish he had resigned.  Had he done so, it might have saved us from a lot of the insanity we are dealing with today, including Trump.

 

 

Then I am very proud that you said that openly and without reservation. I believe that what WJC got away with is partly to blame for the flood of harassment charges we are seeing now. Other powerful men looked at WJC and said: "hey, I can get away with it too."

[DKW 86 7,413]

13 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Alabama Governor Plans To Vote For Roy Moore Despite Sexual Assault Accusations

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/alabama-governor-kay-ivey-roy-moore_us_5a0f51dee4b0dd63b1aa4447?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

 

 

Everything in the world wrong with American Politics in one article.

Look: If you are so blindly ignorant that you are going to support someone, anyone that you know is immoral and has enormous character issues then you need to leave politics. You are not a leader anymore. You are nothing but a mindless lemming.

[DKW 86 7,413]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politics/al-franken-inappropriate-touch-2010/index.html

Al Franken, may actually be about to lose his career.

Quote

 

Then, as her husband held up her phone and got ready to snap a photo of the two of them, Franken "pulled me in really close, like awkward close, and as my husband took the picture, he put his hand full-fledged on my rear," Menz said. "It was wrapped tightly around my butt cheek."

 

"It wasn't around my waist. It wasn't around my hip or side. It was definitely on my butt," she said, recalling that the brazen act lasted three or four seconds. "I was like, oh my God, what's happening."

"He reached around her and kind of pulled her into him," said her husband Jeremy Menz, who didn't see what happened behind his wife. "He pulled her in and pushed his head against her head. It was over pretty quick."

Lindsay Menz told CNN that she walked away as soon as the photo was taken, without saying anything to the then-first term senator. When she reconnected with her husband moments later, she told him: "He totally grabbed my butt." Jeremy Menz described that conversation the same way to CNN.

 

 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Franken is hit by another accuser. How many will it take in his case before the left  and others call for his resignation.? He is a sitting Senator for goodness sake. Roy Moore has been crucified and is only a candidate.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/20/second-woman-alleges-al-franken-groped-her.html

[TitanTiger 20,471]

I'm going to fold this one into the main Al Franken thread.

And there have already been multiple calls for his resignation.  I think this seals the deal though.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

And also, can we can it with the poor persecuted Roy Moore routine?  They aren't "crucifying" him while ignoring Franken.  Hell, these are just a small sample of calls for Franken to step down (from the Left no less) even before the 2nd accuser came forward:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/11/al_franken_should_resign_immediately.html

https://www.salon.com/2017/11/17/al-franken-must-go-its-the-right-way-to-help-women-and-protect-democrats/

https://www.msn.com/g00/en-us/news/politics/celebs-call-for-resignation-jail-time-for-franken/ar-BBF3gJq?i10c.encReferrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9sLmZhY2Vib29rLmNvbS8%3D

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/d3d9gq/al-franken-resign

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/opinion/al-franken-sexual-harassment.html