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Kansas State to keep Snyder (father)


AU64

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Looks like Bill Snyder is the Big 12 version of Bobby Bowden.....the guy you just can't get rid of even when it's apparent it's time to go. 

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-bill-snyder-planning-coach-kansas-state-2018-221733640.html

Guess I should be more loyal to my fellow senior since we are about the same age.....but none the less....Bill, I'm thinking it's time for you to let it go....maybe be a volunteer coach at one of the local high schools or something.

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In his defense Kansas St did turn into somewhat of a dumpster fire after he first left. Did he came back and had a couple good seasons. He had them built up pretty good before he left the first time so i'm not surprised he is resisting leaving again

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30 minutes ago, gravejd said:

In his defense Kansas St did turn into somewhat of a dumpster fire after he first left. Did he came back and had a couple good seasons. He had them built up pretty good before he left the first time so i'm not surprised he is resisting leaving again

I think what he's resisting is that the school did not want to hire his son as his replacement.   Talk about the ultimate nepotism.....would never happen at AU  :-\.....well, at least not any longer....

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38 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Looks like Bill Snyder is the Big 12 version of Bobby Bowden.....the guy you just can't get rid of even when it's apparent it's time to go. 

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-bill-snyder-planning-coach-kansas-state-2018-221733640.html

Guess I should be more loyal to my fellow senior since we are about the same age.....but none the less....Bill, I'm thinking it's time for you to let it go....maybe be a volunteer coach at one of the local high schools or something.

You must be kidding. 

KSU had almost nothing but 0 to 4 win seasons for 60 years until Bill Synder got there in 1989.  He took them to multiple 10-11 win seasons (7 to be exact, plus 3 more seasons of 9 wins) until retiring in 2005.  Ron Prince takes over and promptly goes between 5-7 and 7-6 for three years.  Synder comes out of retirement in 2009 and takes them to 4 more seasons of 9-11 wins.  They were 7-5 this year with a shot at 8-5.

KSU isn't FSU and Synder is the best thing ever to happen to that program, and he's still moderately successful.  He can retire when he's damn well good and ready and KSU should thank him for every season they get out of him.

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Yep.....that's fine if KSU want's to go that route....but not like he's the only person capable of winning there...so wait another year then....guess there is not much to lose.   

If the deal with his son had not been brought up I would have no comment about him coaching another year.....but in my view that changes the situation and how I feel about it. 

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The problem with "he's not the only one capable..." is that no one else has proved they can get it done there.  The program was an utter dumpster fire before him.  In fact, Dumpster Fire Tech was ahead in the rankings. And it was a below .500 pool of mediocrity when he retired the first time.

Just for a more specific breakdown, from 1935-1988 (the year before Synder became HC at KSU), Kansas State's win totals looked like this:

0:  7 seasons

1:  11 seasons

2:  10 seasons

3:  10 seasons

4:  8 seasons

They had four seasons in that stretch where they won 5, 6 or 7 games.  No season did they have more than 7 wins.

So for 50 years prior to Bill Synder being there, they were an absolute doormat.  Vanderbilt had a better win total in that time frame even with all their futility since the 1950s. 

In those 50 years KSU had a total of 117 wins.  Synder has almost double that total (209) in only 25 seasons at the school.  He has averaged 8.4 wins a season in his tenure while before him they averaged 2.34 for the previous 50 seasons.  Regardless of him wanting his son to take over, or Jim Leavitt to take over or his pet dog to take over, for now, you keep the one good thing you've had until/unless it really falls off big time.

 

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4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

The problem with "he's not the only one capable..." is that no one else has proved they can get it done there.  The program was an utter dumpster fire before him.  In fact, Dumpster Fire Tech was ahead in the rankings. And it was a below .500 pool of mediocrity when he retired the first time.

Just for a more specific breakdown, from 1935-1988 (the year before Synder became HC at KSU), Kansas State's win totals looked like this:

0:  7 seasons

1:  11 seasons

2:  10 seasons

3:  10 seasons

4:  8 seasons

They had four seasons in that stretch where they won 5, 6 or 7 games.  No season did they have more than 7 wins.

So for 50 years prior to Bill Synder being there, they were an absolute doormat.  Vanderbilt had a better win total in that time frame even with all their futility since the 1950s. 

In those 50 years KSU had a total of 117 wins.  Synder has almost double that total (209) in only 25 seasons at the school.  He has averaged 8.4 wins a season in his tenure while before him they averaged 2.34 for the previous 50 seasons.  Regardless of him wanting his son to take over, or Jim Leavitt to take over or his pet dog to take over, for now, you keep the one good thing you've had until/unless it really falls off big time.

 

Yet another reason we need the image.jpeg emoji to chose from...

WOW!  That is sad 50 year stretch.  Even Vandy isn't that bad.

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1 hour ago, AU64 said:

Yep.....that's fine if KSU want's to go that route....but not like he's the only person capable of winning there...so wait another year then....guess there is not much to lose.   

If the deal with his son had not been brought up I would have no comment about him coaching another year.....but in my view that changes the situation and how I feel about it. 

 

I can see both sides of it.  Bill Snyder, likely concerned with both his legacy and the program's future, wants his son to succeed him.  The stadium is named after him, and his son has been working for him as an assistant since 1994 (likely being groomed for the job much of that time).  Sean Snyder is probably better primed for success at Kansas State than anyone else they could hire.

On the other hand, Kansas State could be motivated by a desire to look elsewhere, or for more (and more diversified) actual coaching experience.  They originally wanted Jim Leavitt, and his resume is certainly more impressive than Sean Snyder's.  It also includes over a decade of head coach experience.  Sean Snyder has only been serving as special teams coordinator and assistant head coach since 2011.

Personally, I tend to think Bill Snyder has earned the right to name his desired successor.  If his son is to be that successor, it is not like he is trying to ram someone down their throat simply due to nepotism.  He has had his son plugged in to the program, learning from him, for over 20 years.  I have no idea what Kansas State's booster/athletic department politics are like, but I suspect a majority supports Bill Snyder, and what he wants.  It may simply be best move to let him appoint the successor, ride off into the sunset, and see how that goes.  If he fails, they can always add Sean Snyder to the long list of fired college football head coaches.  Then again, the best coach in their program's history might also have the right idea.

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8 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

So for 50 years prior to Bill Synder being there, they were an absolute doormat. 

Just like FSU prior to Bowden.  

Meanwhile Snyder kills the deal to have Leavitt take over.  Venables is a grad and Sumlin is from the Bill Snyder coaching lineage, but he wants his son.  I agree with most everything you assert about the respect due the elder Snyder, but for him to have to die for them to move on, one way or the other is asking a bit much.

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9 hours ago, PowerOfDixieland said:

Just like FSU prior to Bowden.  

Not really.  FSU in the 30 years prior to Bowden was ok (FSU didn't play football until 1947).  Not great, but ok on average.  Only two winless seasons.  Another two one-win seasons.  But also, 14 seasons of six wins or more including four with 8-9 wins and an undefeated season.  Several more were at the 5 win mark.

FSU was just middlin'.  KSU was a dumpster fire.

 

Quote

Meanwhile Snyder kills the deal to have Leavitt take over.  Venables is a grad and Sumlin is from the Bill Snyder coaching lineage, but he wants his son.  I agree with most everything you assert about the respect due the elder Snyder, but for him to have to die for them to move on, one way or the other is asking a bit much.

There may come a point where you lean on him to move on.  And I missed that he submarined the Leavitt deal, so the admin may have to put its foot down on this successor stuff.  He should be able to retire on his own terms unless it tanks, but he doesn't get to pick who coaches after him.

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5 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

There may come a point where you lean on him to move on.  And I missed that he submarined the Leavitt deal, so the admin may have to put its foot down on this successor stuff.  He should be able to retire on his own terms unless it tanks, but he doesn't get to pick who coaches after him.

 

I would normally agree with that, but I tend to think that Bill Snyder has earned the right to name a successor.  If not, he has earned the right to a mountain of input.

Bill Snyder's impact on Kansas State's football program is so immense that the stadium carries his name, and he has devoted a sizeable chunk of his life to that program.  There are not many coaches that have had such an impact that they get to coach games in a stadium bearing their name.  It is his legacy.  He even came out of retirement to put the program back together after the previous successor, that he did not name, failed.

If he was stubbornly looking to get his son a job, while his son has been off cutting his teeth on the normal coaching carousel rounds, I would probably look at it differently.  However, his son has basically been on staff at Kansas State in one form or another since he graduated.  While the son that has been groomed for the job is obviously no guarantee of success, I suspect he is the most likely of anyone Kansas State could hire to succeed Bill Snyder to be able to not miss a beat.  There are certainly no other realistic candidates out there that present a greater guarantee of success.

I actually look at Sean Snyder as a win-win for Kansas State.  If he succeeds Bill Snyder and wins, the program benefits greatly.  If he succeeds Bill Snyder and fails, the program benefits from being able to more easily move on.

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Keep in mind that they only reason this is even a discussion is because someone among the PTBs raised some objections to the son and BS apparently "rejected" another candidate. 

This is an inside the KSU family issue...not bad as UT....but not too unlike it either with competing power sources jockeying for influence.

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look for Brent Venables to be the next HC in a few seasons. He is an alumni, and would be the perfect fit for that program.

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I've flipped my opinion on this.  Snyder is ruining a stellar legacy at a place that he put on the map, has paid him well and respected him, all because he's not getting to name his successor (who happens to be his son).  While I understand that he's been grooming the guy to take over and he thinks it's the best way to continue the success they had, he shouldn't be dragging this process out through the home stretch of recruiting.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/its-clear-now-more-than-ever-bill-snyder-is-holding-kansas-state-hostage/

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I see that KSU is ranked 68 with their early signing class...right down there with Arizona State......two schools that have a really messy coaching situation right now....and slightly ahead of Central Florida and Arkansas.       When it rains it pours at some schools. 

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5 hours ago, alexava said:

Sumlin would be a big hire for them. 

I must be missing something about him....thought he would find a home pretty quickly but maybe there are things we don't know....or it might be the money. 

TAMU owes him small fortune and can't think of any place that would come close to matching that......he would be working for free at about any school that has had openings this year so he may take a sabbatical and see what develops next year. 

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Some guys just get to that point where they can name when they leave.  Snyder is one of them.  KSU has been to 20 bowl games in their history.  He has been the coach for 19 of those 20 bowl games.  

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I think Sumlin got paid about $11,200,000 regardless of any other jobs/offers.  He had a VERY lucrative buyout!  Not sure where TA&MU got these delusions of grandeur? 

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23 minutes ago, penguin149 said:

I think Sumlin got paid about $11,200,000 regardless of any other jobs/offers.  He had a VERY lucrative buyout!  Not sure where TA&MU got these delusions of grandeur? 

I definitely believe that money isn't everything but with $11,200,000 my job would be taking it easy at that point. 

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1 minute ago, gr82be said:

I definitely believe that money isn't everything but with $11,200,000 my job would be taking it easy at that point. 

No need to take a job just to take a job.....might be a good idea and see if the ASU situation implodes with Herm.....and that job opens up again next year.  That whole situation out there is hard to believe ......and might turn out to not be what Herm was expecting when he took the job.    

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