Question for the defense-knowledgeable

[triangletiger 1,599]

This week after the disappointing loss to LSU, I've been hearing how we couldn't get pressure on LSU's QB because we were only rushing four but they were keeping seven in to block.  Keeping seven in means they're sending 3 out on receiving routes.  I've also heard that we use a lot of man coverage.  So, if we're in man coverage on  3 receivers and rushing four, what are our other four defensive players on the field doing?  I assume we might have at least one safety deep to prevent the big gain, but it doesn't seem as if we should have much trouble covering 3 with 7.  What am I missing here? 

[LKEEL75 2,567]

3 minutes ago, triangletiger said:

This week after the disappointing loss to LSU, I've been hearing how we couldn't get pressure on LSU's QB because we were only rushing four but they were keeping seven in to block.  Keeping seven in means they're sending 3 out on receiving routes.  I've also heard that we use a lot of man coverage.  So, if we're in man coverage on  3 receivers and rushing four, what are our other four defensive players on the field doing?  I assume we might have at least one safety deep to prevent the big gain, but it doesn't seem as if we should have much trouble covering 3 with 7.  What am I missing here? 

As Steele said, you can't do this but take away the 70 yard pass and they are 13 for 41 passing.  Even in man-to-man with extra guys over the top and playing middle zone somebody is going to get open eventually.  As for the 70 yard play I am almost certain we were playing zone that play.  At least it looked like we were when they showed the replay and all our guys are standing around watching the WR run to an open spot and go in for the TD.

FOOTNOTE: I am sure that I am not the "defense knowledgeable" one you were looking for and many would likely argue "knowledgeable" and me are not good friends.

[triangletiger 1,599]

4 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

As Steele said, you can't do this but take away the 70 yard pass and they are 13 for 41 passing.  Even in man-to-man with extra guys over the top and playing middle zone somebody is going to get open eventually.  As for the 70 yard play I am almost certain we were playing zone that play.  At least it looked like we were when they showed the replay and all our guys are standing around watching the WR run to an open spot and go in for the TD.

FOOTNOTE: I am sure that I am not the "defense knowledgeable" one you were looking for and many would likely argue "knowledgeable" and me are not good friends.

So, what is the solution?  Do we need to run a different scheme or do our guys in coverage just need to get better?

[LKEEL75 2,567]

5 minutes ago, triangletiger said:

So, what is the solution?  Do we need to run a different scheme or do our guys in coverage just need to get better?

This is almost definitely a question for one of the coaches on the board @bigbird @corchjay  But from my untrained understanding of reading what they have said and my own opinion, it really isn't scheme as much as it is the players executing it better.  The technique that they are being taught is used all around the league.  We just have to have a better execution of that technique. 

But again, if you were to look at the raw numbers for the D 15/34 for 249 and 130 yards rushing.  90% of the time you would take that and be happy.  Again especially if you take the 70 yard pass out they are 14/33 for 179.  But even at this they have under 400 yards total offense.  In today's game with the offenses as good as they are and the penalties more and more helping them.  Under 400 is a pretty good stat.

[bigbird 61,284]

I haven't gone back and watched any of the game, but if my memory is right, it seemed like we ran a lot of combo coverages. 

As far as the backers go. DD was being used as a spy on Burrows most of the time, especially in the 2nd half. Also, even though the backs we're being kept in to pass protect, they are still the backers responsibility and if they were to drop or rush while the RB are blocking, they could easily delay and release and be we'd up a creek.

[corchjay 5,311]

The defense played fine outside of one play the 71 yarder.  The offense continued to not execute enough to flip the field.  The defense gave up to many 3rd downs but some of that has to do with fatigue in my opinion.  They were on the field a long time in 100+ degree temps.  

Busted coverage 1 play, 2 interceptions, failed 4th down conversion, bad snap on a FG, no explosive plays on offense, and basically a stale mate on special teams it’s hard to win any game especially a quality opponent 

[triangletiger 1,599]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

I haven't gone back and watched any of the game, but if my memory is right, it seemed like we ran a lot of combo coverages. 

As far as the backers go. DD was being used as a spy on Burrows most of the time, especially in the 2nd half. Also, even though the backs we're being kept in to pass protect, they are still the backers responsibility and if they were to drop or rush while the RB are blocking, they could easily delay and release and be we'd up a creek.

That makes sense.  Thanks.  I assume by combo coverage, you mean some defenders were playing man and some zone?

[triangletiger 1,599]

I wanted to add that my intent in this thread was not to be critical of the defense or coaches.  Obviously, they have a couple of plays they'd like to do over, but, by and large, they played a good game. I was just seeking understanding of what is going on when you rush four and are in man coverage.

[bigbird 61,284]

2 hours ago, corchjay said:

The defense played fine outside of one play the 71 yarder.  The offense continued to not execute enough to flip the field.  The defense gave up to many 3rd downs but some of that has to do with fatigue in my opinion.  They were on the field a long time in 100+ degree temps.  

Busted coverage 1 play, 2 interceptions, failed 4th down conversion, bad snap on a FG, no explosive plays on offense, and basically a stale mate on special teams it’s hard to win any game especially a quality opponent 

4-12 on 3rd down, 2 int, 3.4 ypc, and Kim's two tackles. Oh, BTW...LSU was +11 minutes in ToP.  Definitely right when you say it wasn't the D. 

Seriously guys, some of the time offenses will convert 3rd downs and make plays.  They're D1 studs that want to win just as badly. That said holding a very talented LSU team to...

379 total yards

8 -20 3rd dwn pct

.428 passing cmp

2.9 ypc

...Is dang impressive.  Like @corchjay said, the D had 1 really bad play. That 1 pass accounted for almost 20% of their total yardage. 

 

[bigbird 61,284]

2 hours ago, triangletiger said:

That makes sense.  Thanks.  I assume by combo coverage, you mean some defenders were playing man and some zone?

You got it.  

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

While I agree with Bigbird and The coach my problem was with the fact that we had zero sacks. Now some times if the QB use quick slants and Quick realeases then it hard to get sacks. In this game it didn’t happen. Getting those sacks in key downs is extremely disruptive to offense not only on that play but in how they manage their offense going forward. We gave Joe way to much time and the success they had caused them to be willing going forward to continue to do what they did. I assure you if the D had better pressure we wouldn’t have had those PI calls. The rush has to put the QB out of his comfort zone. We did not accomplish that.

[jAUSon 2,836]

4 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

While I agree with Bigbird and The coach my problem was with the fact that we had zero sacks. Now some times if the QB use quick slants and Quick realeases then it hard to get sacks. In this game it didn’t happen. Getting those sacks in key downs is extremely disruptive to offense not only on that play but in how they manage their offense going forward. We gave Joe way to much time and the success they had caused them to be willing going forward to continue to do what they did. I assure you if the D had better pressure we wouldn’t have had those PI calls. The rush has to put the QB out of his comfort zone. We did not accomplish that.

Almost like they were playing sound defense but not "mixing it up" seems to me. 

[bigbird 61,284]

35 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

While I agree with Bigbird and The coach my problem was with the fact that we had zero sacks. 

Rushing 4 or 5 against 7 or 8 makes things much more difficult. I would've liked us to bring pressure more often and vary when and where we did.

[augolf1716 22,478]

6 hours ago, triangletiger said:

This week after the disappointing loss to LSU, I've been hearing how we couldn't get pressure on LSU's QB because we were only rushing four but they were keeping seven in to block.  Keeping seven in means they're sending 3 out on receiving routes.  I've also heard that we use a lot of man coverage.  So, if we're in man coverage on  3 receivers and rushing four, what are our other four defensive players on the field doing?  I assume we might have at least one safety deep to prevent the big gain, but it doesn't seem as if we should have much trouble covering 3 with 7.  What am I missing here? 

Oh lord now 40 posts from bird.......................my nightmare will never end

[kevon67 2,371]

6 hours ago, LKEEL75 said:

As Steele said, you can't do this but take away the 70 yard pass and they are 13 for 41 passing.  Even in man-to-man with extra guys over the top and playing middle zone somebody is going to get open eventually.  As for the 70 yard play I am almost certain we were playing zone that play.  At least it looked like we were when they showed the replay and all our guys are standing around watching the WR run to an open spot and go in for the TD.

FOOTNOTE: I am sure that I am not the "defense knowledgeable" one you were looking for and many would likely argue "knowledgeable" and me are not good friends.

I am certainly no expert on anything.........most call me Jack of all trades and master of none?.........a spoke trying to be a wheel etc.........

Thought you did a fine job?

[kevon67 2,371]

28 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Rushing 4 or 5 against 7 or 8 makes things much more difficult. I would've liked us to bring pressure more often and vary when and where we did.

Factor in the heat that 4 or 5 wear down quickly.

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

41 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Rushing 4 or 5 against 7 or 8 makes things much more difficult. I would've liked us to bring pressure more often and vary when and where we did.

Exactly. Bring it from different sides and different players . Doing so creates a sense of urgency from the QB and that tends to create mistakes on their part. It doesn’t have to be constant but it has to be enough to get their attention. Sometimes the defense need to play “offense” ?

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

My thought is we went in with a plan to make JB one dimensional and contain him. They did that. Problem is when LSU just went with that and was sucessful it was on the coaches to change their attack.