Editorial From a Christian: A question to conservative Christians on gay marriage: Why draw the line here?

[homersapien 11,357]

18 hours ago, ScotsAU said:

How do you debate someone who denies science and think’s their pastor’s narrow interpretation of the Bible holds more credibility than scientists, doctors, biblical scholars, and experts? That’s the real issue. It’s not a matter of what is logical. So many people from very fundamentalist backgrounds have heard this same anti-gay rhetoric for years to the point where they have an excuse for everything, and ignore the pieces that don’t have explanations for. 

You can't debate such people. (It's a mistake I repeatedly make.)

That's why it's called faith, or as I prefer, "blind faith". 

It certainly comforts them, but it is a threat to everyone else - at least everyone else in the world who doesn't share that faith - which is most of us.

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by homersapien

[icanthearyou 4,462]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You can't debate such people. (It's a mistake I repeatedly make.)

That's why it's called faith, or as I prefer, "blind faith". 

It certainly comforts them, but it is a threat to everyone else - at least everyone else in the world who doesn't share that faith - which is most of us.

 

Nothing wrong with faith in Jesus.  The problem is faith in the religion of man.  Too many cannot or, refuse to recognize the difference.  Too many have elevated the bible above Jesus.

[PUB78 1,357]

https://wng.org/opinions/the-hounding-of-jack-phillips-1675774767?mkt_tok=NzEwLVFSUi0yMDkAAAGJzSMXd9PdqDyW9G7Ga5Uk6Thb3wsJlFKUXFRcPe0U8-xbkUCj9sFDkRL0kzGcRY3W82_2-w22g4i9JuGOOb36Gwdc12IhxK641gyF7k_x-Eg

[DKW 86 7,419]

On 2/8/2023 at 4:39 PM, PUB78 said:

https://wng.org/opinions/the-hounding-of-jack-phillips-1675774767?mkt_tok=NzEwLVFSUi0yMDkAAAGJzSMXd9PdqDyW9G7Ga5Uk6Thb3wsJlFKUXFRcPe0U8-xbkUCj9sFDkRL0kzGcRY3W82_2-w22g4i9JuGOOb36Gwdc12IhxK641gyF7k_x-Eg

Maybe he should have just made the cake AND witnessed to the people involved, you know like Christ taught us to do. He is now a point of contention for the community.

[PUB78 1,357]

5 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Maybe he should have just made the cake AND witnessed to the people involved, you know like Christ taught us to do. He is now a point of contention for the community.

Because the Homosexual activists have made it a point of contention. Why don’t they leave the poor man alone and find someone else to make their cake? Seems pretty simple.

Edited February 11, 2023 by PUB78

[DKW 86 7,419]

11 minutes ago, PUB78 said:

Because the Homosexual activists have made it a point of contention. Why don’t they leave the poor man alone and find someone else to make their cake? Seems pretty simple.

Wrong question: Of course they were going to make a big huge ugly deal out of it. That is what they wanted. He gave them exactly what they wanted. He "won" because the State of Colorado overstepped the fair court case rules. He lost on his point of merit in the case. He flat lost the case on his terms actually.

He could have done some good if he had handled it correctly, but he didnt. He made the error of following religion and not Christ's teachings.

Edited February 11, 2023 by DKW 86

[PUB78 1,357]

6 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Wrong question: Of course they were going to make a big huge ugly deal out of it. That is what they wanted. He gave them exactly what they wanted. He "won" because the State of Colorado overstepped the fair court case rules. He lost on his point of merit in the case. He flat lost the case on his terms actually.

He could have done some good if he had handled it correctly, but he didnt. He made the error of following religion and not Christ's teachings.

You are starting to sound like ICKY!!!

[DKW 86 7,419]

10 minutes ago, PUB78 said:

You are starting to sound like ICKY!!!

We pretty much agree on this as All Christians should. 

The cake maker did it wrong and offended non-believers and offended many more for his actions. How many will harden their hearts over his failures and never listen again to the Gospel?

[PUB78 1,357]

Just now, DKW 86 said:

We pretty much agree on this as All Christians should. 

The cake maker did it wrong and offended non-believers and offended many more for his actions. How many will harden their hearts over his failures and never listen again to the Gospel?

I respectfully disagree with you.

[DKW 86 7,419]

1 minute ago, PUB78 said:

I respectfully disagree with you.

Disagreeing with facts is never a good thing.

[I_M4_AU 7,788]

16 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

He could have done some good if he had handled it correctly, but he didnt. He made the error of following religion and not Christ's teachings.

He offered to bake a cake for them, just not a custom cake that involved his 1st amendment right of expression (free speech).  

Obviously the secular couple saw an opportunity to further their cause.  Their hearts were hardened and by their coalitions further actions and you can see it hardened others over being triggered. It is the world as we know it now.

16 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

We pretty much agree on this as All Christians should. 

The cake maker did it wrong and offended non-believers and offended many more for his actions. How many will harden their hearts over his failures and never listen again to the Gospel?

At what point do Christians take a stand on issues?  Do they always turn the other cheek?  Christians (or more properly *I*) have issues with abortion and transing the kids to name a couple.  In the secular world these seem to be rights.  Does the church go along with these issues until society collapses?

Honest question.  Christians have to fight the secular world without the use of the gospel and appeal to a higher moral ground as Christianity is an automatic non starter, or more appropriately, not taken seriously and shuts down any further conversation.

[DKW 86 7,419]

You follow the teachings of Christ. Follow and act like he acted. Dont get emotional about it. Look, I dont even know how to think about some of these things. Cutting off a body part is as foreign to me as it gets. But that is on the doer, not me. I am supposed to be there to help them pickup the pieces and set them an attractive example for moving toward God. I dont recall Jesus screaming His fool head off at anyone. He calmly and coolly pointed out what they were doing. 

Is Sampson a good man? Read about Samson, long hair, chasing women, drunk often, and yet still God's man.

 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

On 2/12/2023 at 10:35 AM, I_M4_AU said:

Christians have to fight the secular world without the use of the gospel and appeal to a higher moral ground as Christianity is an automatic non starter, or more appropriately, not taken seriously and shuts down any further conversation.

I sincerely doubt Jesus wants you to "fight" the secular world.  Jesus never imposes his will.  Why should you?

I believe our calling is to rise above the secular world.  That is to say, not be holier than thou or self righteous but rather, to live as Jesus commanded, rising above pettiness, not participating.

Then again, "christians" may want to fight.  Followers of Jesus will reflect the love of Jesus.

[I_M4_AU 7,788]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

You follow the teachings of Christ. Follow and act like he acted. Dont get emotional about it. Look, I dont even know how to think about some of these things. Cutting off a body part is as foreign to me as it gets. But that is on the doer, not me. I am supposed to be there to help them pickup the pieces and set them an attractive example for moving toward God. I dont recall Jesus screaming His fool head off at anyone. He calmly and coolly pointed out what they were doing. 

Is Sampson a good man? Read about Samson, long hair, chasing women, drunk often, and yet still God's man.

 

Did you guide your children as a parent, or let them make horrible mistakes and then pick the pieces?  Being Jesus helped in arguing calmly and coolly, all He had to say was let those without sin cast the first stone and got His point across.  Like I said, try that in today’s world and see what you get.  There are people on here that even debate if the Bible is God’s word or even Jesus’.

Did He not turn over some tables at one point?

There is a war on Christianity going on; a pro-life advocate fast 11 years in jail for defending his son on Federal charges brought be the DOJ,  A woman in the UK arrested for silently praying outside an abortion clinic and an FBI memo stating Catholics that attend Mass could be white Nationalists and/or domestic terrorist are just a few examples. Christians are not going to be violent about these acts, but the media are even suggesting religion played a role in Jan. 6th

Christianity will be popular again, but it’s going to be a long hard road back.  Why would we let the secular word dictate how a Christian should act?  If you say something remotely against the woke agenda you are asked *are you a Christian?* in a tone more condemning than inquisitive.  Note:  it is a take on casting the first stone, but not with the sincerity.

Life is strange.

 

[I_M4_AU 7,788]

47 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I sincerely doubt Jesus wants you to "fight" the secular world.  Jesus never imposes his will.  Why should you?

I believe our calling is to rise above the secular world.  That is to say, not be holier than thou or self righteous but rather, to live as Jesus commanded, rising above pettiness, not participating.

Then again, "christians" may want to fight.  Followers of Jesus will reflect the love of Jesus.

1	Onward Christian soldiers!   Marching as to war, With the cross of Jesus   Going on before. Christ, the royal Master,   Leads against the foe; Forward into battle,   See, His banners go!
	Onward, Christian soldiers!   Marching as to war, With the cross of Jesus,     Going on before. https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/871#1

[SaltyTiger 7,777]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Is Sampson a good man? Read about Samson, long hair, chasing women, drunk often, and yet still God's man.

Sure. He finished well

[PUB78 1,357]

36 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Did you guide your children as a parent, or let them make horrible mistakes and then pick the pieces?  Being Jesus helped in arguing calmly and coolly, all He had to say was let those without sin cast the first stone and got His point across.  Like I said, try that in today’s world and see what you get.  There are people on here that even debate if the Bible is God’s word or even Jesus’.

Did He not turn over some tables at one point?

There is a war on Christianity going on; a pro-life advocate fast 11 years in jail for defending his son on Federal charges brought be the DOJ,  A woman in the UK arrested for silently praying outside an abortion clinic and an FBI memo stating Catholics that attend Mass could be white Nationalists and/or domestic terrorist are just a few examples. Christians are not going to be violent about these acts, but the media are even suggesting religion played a role in Jan. 6th

Christianity will be popular again, but it’s going to be a long hard road back.  Why would we let the secular word dictate how a Christian should act?  If you say something remotely against the woke agenda you are asked *are you a Christian?* in a tone more condemning than inquisitive.  Note:  it is a take on casting the first stone, but not with the sincerity.

Life is strange.

 

I wish I was as optimistic as you about Christianity. There may be another “Great Awakening “ coming, but how long will it last and what will be its eternal impact?

As Christians we have many battles to fight with evil and the enemies of righteousness and we will lose the majority of them due to an unbelieving world.

However, we win the war and we know how it all ends. The unbelievers don’t have that hope or assurance.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

24 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

1	Onward Christian soldiers!   Marching as to war, With the cross of Jesus   Going on before. Christ, the royal Master,   Leads against the foe; Forward into battle,   See, His banners go!
	Onward, Christian soldiers!   Marching as to war, With the cross of Jesus,     Going on before. https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/871#1

It's bad enough to use the bible in order to dismiss Jesus.  Now,,, you wish to use the hymnal?

Humans and their religion using Jesus.  How many times does Jesus himself call us to war, to be violent, to murder our fellow man?

Thank you for you assistance in proving that religion has a worldly power appetite all it's own.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

3 minutes ago, PUB78 said:

As Christians we have many battles to fight with evil and the enemies of righteousness and we will lose the majority of them due to an unbelieving world.

Our battles with good and evil are internal.  The worldly battle is for Jesus.

We are suppose to rise above the pettiness of this world.  We will never change the world by force of will, violence, political power.  We can only change the world by following Jesus and, reflecting his love, grace, mercy, charity.  If we choose force/power, we merely become part of the problem.

[I_M4_AU 7,788]

14 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

It's bad enough to use the bible in order to dismiss Jesus.  Now,,, you wish to use the hymnal?

Humans and their religion using Jesus.  How many times does Jesus himself call us to war, to be violent, to murder our fellow man?

Thank you for you assistance in proving that religion has a worldly power appetite all it's own.

You’ve misinterpreted the hymn as usual.

[SaltyTiger 7,777]

15 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

It's bad enough to use the bible in order to dismiss Jesus.  Now,,, you wish to use the hymnal?

Humans and their religion using Jesus.  How many times does Jesus himself call us to war, to be violent, to murder our fellow man?

Thank you for you assistance in proving that religion has a worldly power appetite all it's own.

“Violent, murder”? Your mind is in the gutter ICHY

[SaltyTiger 7,777]

14 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Our battles with good and evil are internal.  The worldly battle is for Jesus.

We are suppose to rise above the pettiness of this world.  We will never change the world by force of will, violence, political power.  We can only change the world by following Jesus and, reflecting his love, grace, mercy, charity.  If we choose force/power, we merely become part of the problem.

If you believe in Jesus then you obviously believe in God. Do you not understand “evil”? 

[PUB78 1,357]

30 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Our battles with good and evil are internal.  The worldly battle is for Jesus.

We are suppose to rise above the pettiness of this world.  We will never change the world by force of will, violence, political power.  We can only change the world by following Jesus and, reflecting his love, grace, mercy, charity.  If we choose force/power, we merely become part of the problem.

So, what about my post did you so disagree with that you gave me a facepalm?

Edited February 14, 2023 by PUB78

[DKW 86 7,419]

11 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Did you guide your children as a parent, or let them make horrible mistakes and then pick the pieces?  Being Jesus helped in arguing calmly and coolly, all He had to say was let those without sin cast the first stone and got His point across.  Like I said, try that in today’s world and see what you get.  There are people on here that even debate if the Bible is God’s word or even Jesus’.

Did He not turn over some tables at one point?

There is a war on Christianity going on; a pro-life advocate fast 11 years in jail for defending his son on Federal charges brought be the DOJ,  A woman in the UK arrested for silently praying outside an abortion clinic and an FBI memo stating Catholics that attend Mass could be white Nationalists and/or domestic terrorist are just a few examples. Christians are not going to be violent about these acts, but the media are even suggesting religion played a role in Jan. 6th

Christianity will be popular again, but it’s going to be a long hard road back.  Why would we let the secular word dictate how a Christian should act?  If you say something remotely against the woke agenda you are asked *are you a Christian?* in a tone more condemning than inquisitive.  Note:  it is a take on casting the first stone, but not with the sincerity.

Life is strange.

And it does nothing good around here top Cherry Pick the crazies. If there is anything I am truly sick of on this board it is "discussions with a trowel." This is where the mental midgets immediately jump to stereotyping everyone by the actions of one. It is lazy, and as anti-intellectual as it gets. One woman being arrested for praying doesnt mean that Democrats nor the state want everyone that prays to get arrested. One Q-Anon crazy doesnt represent every Republican.

See? We can have civil discussions without the constant Whataboutism...At least some a few of us can.

[DKW 86 7,419]

11 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Sure. He finished well

That he did. He lived a good life except for a short stay in prison. 

I am not championing Samson, just using him as an illustration that God can use anyone. 

Saul was a crazy, church persecuting, Pharisee from the Sanhedrin Council that was advocating death to Christians everywhere. 

He turned out alright too. You never know, that LGBTQ or Trans person may be the next Billy Graham...