Education Department Opens Federal Civil Rights Investigation Into a Texas School District's Banning of LGBTQ Books

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

12 hours ago, Leftfield said:

You....compare that to actually being attracted to someone? Sure I liked some friends more than others. Didn't change the fact I never wanted any boys to "go" with me.

Its about feelings at that age.  It takes time to mature so you can sort out those feelings.  Parents are a good resource for this.

12 hours ago, Leftfield said:

The mistake you make is believing that the majority who teach it are evil and trying to hide it instead of being a good person trying to help. 

The mistake you make is you believe every person teaching or consulting knows what they are talking about.  It is policy in some schools to hide it from parents.  Not much transparency in that policy is there?

12 hours ago, Leftfield said:

The whole point, since you continue to miss it, is that these children shouldn't feel like they should have to "come out." They should be comfortable being who they are, and not have to "decide" to tell everyone

In a perfect world.  In the real world it is a decision that must be made at some point.

 

12 hours ago, Leftfield said:

Do you think that there are more parents that would do this to their children, or more that would push them towards a gender transition at too young an age?

A good question; both are abuse.  One child could be taken away and the other would be praised in this upside down world we live in.

 

12 hours ago, Leftfield said:

Would this include a book about a family with two mothers or two fathers?

That would be the superintendent’s call.

[PUB78 1,354]

20 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Ok, you are either overly obtuse or ignorant. L=Lesbian, G=Gay, B=Bisexual, T=Transgender and Q=Queer themed books would include these topics.

He is both.

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

13 hours ago, homersapien said:

That's called "moving the goalposts".  The thread topic is about banning books in school libraries.

And teaching "sex education" to children as old as third grade is not inappropriate.

You are the one who is confused, which is not surprising considering your ignorance on the topic.

https://www.montclair.edu/newscenter/2020/12/14/experts-sex-education-should-begin-in-kindergarten/

Experts: Sex Education Should Begin in Kindergarten

First-of-its-kind research shows sex education yields positive outcomes beyond STD and pregnancy prevention

 

https://sexedrescue.com/when-to-start-sex-education/

 

https://raisingchildren.net.au/school-age/development/sexual-development/sex-education-children

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/08/the-benefits-of-starting-sex-ed-at-age-4/568225/

 

https://www.heysigmund.com/kid-needs-know-age-age-guide-sex-education/

 

etc.

Did you read any of these links?

The first one is, as it describes, a first of its kind research which basically means opinion to be floated out and accepted by the woke crowd.

The others are guides for PARENTS to talk to their children before school age. Some discuss internet discipline and some school related subjects, but for the most part they are pre-school education for parents to discuss with their children.  I have no problem with parents talking about where babies come from at home.  

Now you are moving the goal posts as the op is discussing LGBTQ books in school libraries.  Gender identity; that is the issue as this subject has not been broached before in public schools and can be confusing for elementary aged children.

Its unfortunate that the LGBTQ1+fajita coalition has muddied the waters and it become almost impossible to separate the letters out.  They want to be all inclusive and it really harms the LG part of the community.

[Leftfield 2,583]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Its about feelings at that age.  It takes time to mature so you can sort out those feelings.  Parents are a good resource for this.

The whole point I was making was that people know who they are attracted to far earlier than you admit. You can dance around it all you want, but I knew in 1st grade that I liked girls. Sure, some realize it later, but in my experience most people, whether gay or straight, know well before 3rd grade.

 

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

The mistake you make is you believe every person teaching or consulting knows what they are talking about.  It is policy in some schools to hide it from parents.  Not much transparency in that policy is there?

I'm sure not every person knows what they're talking about, but then again, I'm just arguing for letting them acknowledge reality and not treat the child as abnormal. I agree that if the child hasn't spoken to their parents about it, the teacher/faculty member should first advise the child to do so. If the child doesn't, there may be a very good reason they feel that way. Do you think there shouldn't be a policy that says it should be kept from the parents if there is a reasonable fear that they parents may be abusive toward that child? I'd have to see the specific policies you seem to be referring to. 

 

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

In a perfect world.  In the real world it is a decision that must be made at some point.

Only reason it's not like that in the real world is because of people like you.

 

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

A good question; both are abuse.  One child could be taken away and the other would be praised in this upside down world we live in.

In some cases I agree the conversion is abuse, certainly if it's done very young. However, there are also knee-jerk reactionists out there who jump all over a parent just because they let their son wear a dress to school because that's what he wants to do, and say the parents are pushing their "agenda" on the child.

As for the second part, that depends on the person. I can guarantee there are plenty who would praise the people who verbally or physically abuse their child for not being what they think they should (never out loud, of course).

 

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

That would be the superintendent’s call.

I'm asking what you think. The whole point of the thread was schools removing books that made any mention of LGBTQ. 

How would you have reacted had your child told you they were gay or trans? Would you have told them you supported them without reservation, or would you have pointed out how it's a sin in the Bible, and they were choosing a shameful lifestyle? 

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

I have not seen in any of the schools here in Texas where they are actually trying to groom or influence students. I have two daughters, one in college and the other a freshman in high school. My wife also taught in junior high up until this year. I also have relatives that work or have worked for the TEA. So I would say that I am pretty well connected to what is actually happening. Now, I can't speak for other places....maybe it is happening there. I am very familiar with Granbury and have a friend who lives there and his daughter went there and graduate from Granbury HS 3 years ago.

I lean conservative, but some of this grooming/influencing stuff is way out of proportion and personally seems like a way for politicians to appeal to their base. 

In reality the schools aren't the ones influencing the kids...it is social media. But, the schools now have no power to do anything about this or really even talk about it. A teacher no longer can pull a kid to the side and ask what is going on. Kids can change their name to whatever they want to as well as gender and the school has to go along with it. Social media has turned this into something cool to do......which to me is the issue. It makes it way harder for a student that is dealing with real issues. 

A book in a school library that has a gay character or two parents of the same sex isn't influencing anyone.

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

30 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

The whole point I was making was that people know who they are attracted to far earlier than you admit. You can dance around it all you want, but I knew in 1st grade that I liked girls. Sure, some realize it later, but in my experience most people, whether gay or straight, know well before 3rd grade.

Good for you, do you think every kid has such clarity by the 3rd grade?  I have said in this thread that the LGBTQadvkjo Coalition has muddied the waters on this subject. If the issue was just between L and G there have been little issues, but when the government requires discussing the T part in K-3 those that have some questioning of their sexuality gives those kids another option that didn’t exist (in schools) a decade ago and can lead to confusion when there wasn’t one.

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

I'd have to see the specific policies you seem to be referring to.

From California:

May a student’s gender identity be shared with the student’s parents, other students, or members of the public?

A transgender or gender nonconforming student may not express their gender identity openly in all contexts, including at home. Revealing a student’s gender identity or expression to others may compromise the student’s safety. Thus, preserving a student’s privacy is of the utmost importance. The right of transgender students to keep their transgender status private is grounded in California’s antidiscrimination laws as well as federal and state laws.  Disclosing that a student is transgender without the student’s permission may violate California’s antidiscrimination law by increasing the student’s vulnerability to harassment and may violate the student’s right to privacy.

 

A. Public Records Act requests - The Education Code requires that schools keep student records private. Private information such as transgender status or gender identity falls within this code requirement and should not be released. (Education Code Section 49060.)
 

B. Family Educational and Privacy Rights (FERPA) - FERPA is federal law that protects the privacy of students’ education records. FERPA provides that schools may only disclose information in school records with written permission from a student’s parents or from the student after the student reaches the age of 18. (20 U.S.C. Section 1232g.) This includes any “information that . . . would allow a reasonable person in the school community . . . to identify the student with reasonable certainty.” (34 C.F.R. Section 99.3.)
 

C. California Constitution - Minors enjoy a right to privacy under Article I, Section I of the California Constitution that is enforceable against private parties and government officials. The right to privacy encompasses the right to non-disclosure (autonomy privacy) as well as in the collection and dissemination of personal information such as medical records and gender identity (informational privacy).
Even when information is part of a student’s records and therefore covered by FERPA, the law provides several exceptions that permit appropriate communications under circumstances in which the student or others may be at risk of harm. Transgender or gender nonconforming students are often subject to stressors which can place them at risk of self-harm. FERPA expressly permits the disclosure of information from a student’s records “…to appropriate parties in connection with an emergency if knowledge of the information is necessary to protect the health or safety of the student or other individuals.” (34 C.F.R. Section 99.36(a).) “If the educational agency or institution determines that there is an articulable and significant threat to the health or safety of a student or other individuals, it may disclose information from education records to any person whose knowledge of the information is necessary to protect the health or safety of the student or other individuals.” (Id. Section 99.36(c).)

 

Moreover, although FERPA restricts disclosures of information obtained from a student’s records, it was never intended to act as a complete prohibition on all communications. One threshold point that is often overlooked is that FERPA limits only the disclosure of records and information from records about a student. It does not limit disclosure or discussion of personal observations.

In other words, if a school employee develops a concern about a student based on the employee’s observations of or personal interactions with the student, the employee may disclose that concern to anyone without violating, or even implicating, FERPA. Of course, in most cases, the initial disclosure should be made to professionals trained to evaluate and handle such concerns, such as school student health or welfare personnel, who can then determine whether further and broader disclosures are appropriate.

https://www.cde.ca.gov/re/di/eo/faqs.asp

A lot of states are adapting this type of policy.  Pennsylvania and Michigan to name two.

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

Only reason it's not like that in the real world is because of people like you.

What an insanely ignorant remark.

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

In some cases I agree the conversion is abuse, certainly if it's done very young. However, there are also knee-jerk reactionists out there who jump all over a parent just because they let their son wear a dress to school because that's what he wants to do, and say the parents are pushing their "agenda" on the child.

As for the second part, that depends on the person. I can guarantee there are plenty who would praise the people who verbally or physically abuse their child for not being what they think they should (never out loud, of course).

Part of the problem is the schools treat all children the same as soon as they let it be known they are *transgender*.   They are then in the protocol for better or worse.  Professional help is required away from the school setting, but it may be too late.  Gender identity is the problem here as it is not easily defined by sane people.  JMO.

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

How would you have reacted had your child told you they were gay or trans? Would you have told them you supported them without reservation, or would you have pointed out how it's a sin in the Bible, and they were choosing a shameful lifestyle? 

There are other options than the two you presented.  Depending on the kid, I would fine out the origin of their thoughts (if it was a feeling inside or some kind of outside influence) and seek professional help, someone that was not known to me or them.

Having said that; my middle child would double down on his decision if he were to address it and we got professional help.  He is a stubborn cuss.

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

In reality the schools aren't the ones influencing the kids...it is social media. But, the schools now have no power to do anything about this or really even talk about it. A teacher no longer can pull a kid to the side and ask what is going on. Kids can change their name to whatever they want to as well as gender and the school has to go along with it. Social media has turned this into something cool to do......which to me is the issue. It makes it way harder for a student that is dealing with real issues. 

This!!!  They don’t call them influencers for nothing.  Once the kids declare their identity, they have been labeled whether they know it or not.  A sad state of affairs.

[AUFAN78 3,889]

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-outcomes/

[AUFAN78 3,889]

https://news.yahoo.com/detransitioning-tiktoker-horrified-lgbt-activist-224539318.html

[AUFAN78 3,889]

https://www.foxnews.com/health/detransitioning-becomes-growing-choice-young-people-gender-affirming-surgery

[AUFAN78 3,889]

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2022/december/former-navy-seal-trans-poster-boy-announces-detransition-transgender-ideology-is-cultish

[AUFAN78 3,889]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11476733/Woman-detransitioned-speaks-against-gender-affirmation-treatment.html

[AUFAN78 3,889]

 

[DKW 86 7,410]

16 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

 

How dare you point out that there even COULD be two sides to any story.

Sometimes the narrative idiocy on this board amazes me. Sometimes it just pisses me off. 

[AUFAN78 3,889]

8 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

How dare you point out that there even COULD be two sides to any story.

Sometimes the narrative idiocy on this board amazes me. Sometimes it just pisses me off. 

At the end of the day one tries on occasion to bring facts to the table. Likely not as often as needed. Will it work? To a radical cult probably not, facts be damned. The abundance of radical ideology is ingrained and a tough nut to crack. Yet we persist. Merry Christmas!

[AURex 1,983]

Step back from the politically loaded gatling gun.

Here is the official code of ethics for ALL librarians in ALL types of libraries. Librarians must have a Bachelors level degree before they can enter a graduate program to become a librarian. All librarians have a masters degree in Library & Information Science, and often other degrees as well.

Note that the purpose of libraries -- ALL libraries -- is to meet the interests and needs of its clientele -- ALL of its clientele. Is there any confusion about the word "ALL"? Here is their Code of Ethics. Of note, refer to numbers I, II, III, VII, and IX.

1. We provide the highest level of service to all library users through appropriate and usefully organized resources; equitable service policies; equitable access; and accurate, unbiased, and courteous responses to all requests.
2. We uphold the principles of intellectual freedom and resist all efforts to censor library resources.
3. We protect each library user's right to privacy and confidentiality with respect to information sought or received and resources consulted, borrowed, acquired or transmitted.
4. We respect intellectual property rights and advocate balance between the interests of information users and rights holders.
5. We treat co-workers and other colleagues with respect, fairness, and good faith, and advocate conditions of employment that safeguard the rights and welfare of all employees of our institutions.
6. We do not advance private interests at the expense of library users, colleagues, or our employing institutions.
7. We distinguish between our personal convictions and professional duties and do not allow our personal beliefs to interfere with fair representation of the aims of our institutions or the provision of access to their information resources.
8. We strive for excellence in the profession by maintaining and enhancing our own knowledge and skills, by encouraging the professional development of co-workers, and by fostering the aspirations of potential members of the profession.
9. We affirm the inherent dignity and rights of every person. We work to recognize and dismantle systemic and individual biases; to confront inequity and oppression; to enhance diversity and inclusion; and to advance racial and social justice in our libraries, communities, profession, and associations through awareness, advocacy, education, collaboration, services, and allocation of resources and spaces.

Any librarian who removes materials from their library due to the demands of a specific person who happens to dislike a particular topic or subject matter, is violating his/her code of professional ethics. Librarians who chose to contest attempts at censorship or political machinations can receive legal support from the American Library Association.

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by AURex

[homersapien 11,352]

I think introducing kids to the existence of LGBTQ as soon as appropriate - 3rd grade IMO - is a good thing.  Ignorance is the foundation of fear and hate.

I'd like to see an example of a book - written at the 3rd grade level - that book banners feel should be banned. 

Not denying the possible existence of such a book (pornography), but let's see an example of one that has been vetted by librarians and thus, can be found in libraries.

 

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

On 1/16/2023 at 12:25 PM, homersapien said:

I think introducing kids to the existence of LGBTQ as soon as appropriate - 3rd grade IMO - is a good thing.  Ignorance is the foundation of fear and hate.

I'd like to see an example of a book - written at the 3rd grade level - that book banners feel should be banned. 

Not denying the possible existence of such a book (pornography), but let's see an example of one that has been vetted by librarians and thus, can be found in libraries.

 

This is in a school library in Ohio.  It doesn’t specify what grade level, but it seems it is higher than a 3rd grade level.  However, if it is a elementary school 3rd graders would have access to it.

 

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,082]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

This is in a school library in Ohio.  It doesn’t specify what grade level, but it seems it is higher than a 3rd grade level.  However, if it is a elementary school 3rd graders would have access to it.

 

 

 

 

Our nation would likely have much less prevalence of STDs and unwanted pregnancies if everyone in high school was made to read a book like this or at least receive similar facts. 

In a college class one time I had a woman who said out loud during a conversation about sexual health that she didn't know that condoms could help prevent the spread of HIV. 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

1 minute ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

 

Our nation would likely have much less prevalence of STDs and unwanted pregnancies if everyone in high school was made to read a book like this or at least receive similar facts. 

In a college class one time I had a woman who said out loud during a conversation about sexual health that she didn't know that condoms could help prevent the spread of HIV. 

 

Do you think that lesson could be taught without the explicit gay sex reference?

[CoffeeTiger 5,082]

17 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Do you think that lesson could be taught without the explicit gay sex reference?

Why? 

Especially since gay sex can spread certain STDs easier and faster, you'd WANT to educate the gay community on safer sex practices. 

 

History clearly shows that pretending gay people and gay sex doesn't exist doesn't actually stop Gay people from existing or from having Gay sex. 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by CoffeeTiger

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

38 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Why? 

Especially since gay sex can spread certain STDs easier and faster, you'd WANT to educate the gay community on safer sex practices. 

 

History clearly shows that pretending gay people and gay sex doesn't exist doesn't actually stop Gay people from existing or from having Gay sex. 

 

Why?  Because it isn’t appropriate to discuss at the grade level it is being taught.

This isn’t about pretending gay people don’t exist.   It would suffice to say if you have annual sex you can spread STDs faster.  This, by the way, can be true for heterosexual couples as well.  If the person has further questions the parents are the ones to consult not a teacher.

 

[arein0 946]

12 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

This is in a school library in Ohio.  It doesn’t specify what grade level, but it seems it is higher than a 3rd grade level.  However, if it is a elementary school 3rd graders would have access to it.

 

 

How do we know these pictures aren't staged? The pictures are so zoomed in to try to hide the background. I dont know if this is still a thing or not, but the libraries I went to all had stickers on the bottom binding to quickly identify it was their book. The top left picture doesnt include that. The top right you can see hardwood floors and trim...I haven't been in a school that has hardwood outside of the gym. Even if it is not staged, it seems like they purposely hid where they came from to make you think the worst... that they came from an elementary school library.

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

9 hours ago, arein0 said:

How do we know these pictures aren't staged? The pictures are so zoomed in to try to hide the background. I dont know if this is still a thing or not, but the libraries I went to all had stickers on the bottom binding to quickly identify it was their book. The top left picture doesnt include that. The top right you can see hardwood floors and trim...I haven't been in a school that has hardwood outside of the gym. Even if it is not staged, it seems like they purposely hid where they came from to make you think the worst... that they came from an elementary school library.

Do you believe this book doesn’t exist or that it isn’t in school libraries?  I have no idea if this book is in middle schools or elementary schools, but I believe it is in schools.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Why should we care if these books are in libraries?   Why is it so terrifying to validate homosexuality?