Jump to content

Difference in Gender and Sex


TexasTiger

Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Well I certainly agree with all of this. 

Supports pretty much everything I said.

They share both our concerns about the current legislation, but as experts in the field for decades, don’t share your idyllic view of the state of care. In fact, they are deeply alarmed by it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites





22 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

If anything, I am assuming that the parents/patients of children who claim to be gender dysphoric would be referred to a pediatric psychiatrist who specializes in that area.

I would hope there was the magical specialist pediatric psychiatrist you assume is available everywhere but is hardly anywhere in reality.

I seriously doubt that a pediatric psychiatrist exists that is totally ignorant of this subject.  Like I said earlier, the subject appears more than once on the agenda at the annual APA meeting.  I don't think it's unreasonable to think a patient and their parents can get meaningful pediatric psychiatric care in the U.S. within a manageable distance.  

If you want to assume that there is no expertise in the field, assume away.  If you want to assume inexperienced pediatric psychiatrists are prone not to consult or otherwise violate the (pretty much global) guidelines assume away.

As for the article as a whole, how is it all that different than the articles from the various European countries?

I have never claimed that poor outcomes - such as gender dysphorics regretting sex change surgery don't exist.  They certainly do.  I just haven't seen any data that show what percent these bad outcomes represent of a treated population.

And I don't know the chances of potential harm of denying medical treatment  qualified patients of a given age (like suicides).   I have no idea of the benefit/risk ratio in making medical treatments more or less available for any given patient category.

All I have said is:

1. I'd like to see some data before I condemn the US medical/psychiatry industry for widespread malpractice in this area.

2. I am very concerned about the politicization of this subject and strongly oppose legislative measures to "regulate" it at any level, particularly the state level.

If you disagree with either of those points, that's OK.  Just say so and we'll conclude this discussion.  I don't really have anything more to add.

Otherwise, I am getting tired of serving as your straw man. 

 

Edited by homersapien
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

If anything, I am assuming that the parents/patients of children who claim to be gender dysphoric would be referred to a pediatric psychiatrist who specializes in that area.

I would hope there was the magical specialist pediatric psychiatrist you assume is available everywhere but is hardly anywhere in reality.

Another broad and data-less assumption.  :no:

Not that I have done the research either, but I'm willing to bet there is more than one pediatric psychiatrists is every major city.

 

Edited by homersapien
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I seriously doubt that a pediatric psychiatrist exists that is totally ignorant of this subject.  Like I said earlier, the subject appears more than once on the agenda at the annual APA meeting.  I don't think it's unreasonable to think a patient and their parents can get meaningful pediatric psychiatric care in the U.S. within a manageable distance.  

If you want to assume that there is no expertise in the field, assume away.  If you want to assume inexperienced pediatric psychiatrists are prone not to consult or otherwise violate the (pretty much global) guidelines assume away.

As for the article as a whole, how is it all that different than the articles from the various European countries?

I have never claimed that poor outcomes - such as gender dysphorics regretting sex change surgery don't exist.  They certainly do.  I just haven't seen any data that show what percent these bad outcomes represent of a treated population.

And I don't know the chances of potential harm of denying qualified patients of a given age of medical treatments (like suicides).   I have no idea of the benefit/risk ratio in making medical treatments more or less available for any given patient.

All I have said is:

1. I'd like to see some data before I condemn the US medical/psychiatry industry for widespread malpractice in this area.

2. I am very concerned about the politicization of this subject and strongly oppose legislative measures to "regulate" it at any level, particularly the state level.

If you disagree with either of those points, that's OK.  Just say so and we'll conclude this discussion.  I don't really have anything more to add.

Otherwise, I am getting tired of serving as your straw man. 

 

And I’m tired of you obsessing over a separate issue while pretending to respond to the one I’ve raised. As I predicted, I gave you two very pro-transition experts long recognized as such who said exactly what I’ve been saying and you totally ignored it. You’re not a strawman- you’re a brick wall.

  • Thanks 1
  • Facepalm 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

They share both our concerns about the current legislation, but as experts in the field for decades, don’t share your idyllic view of the state of care. In fact, they are deeply alarmed by it.

Where did you get the idea that I thought the level of care for this in the U.S. is "idyllic" - or even good?  :no:

I don't have the data to claim that either.  Like I said, I am tired of being your straw man.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Another broad and data-less assumption.  :no:

Not that I have done the research either, but I'm willing to bet there is more than one pediatric psychiatrists is every major city.

 

You just made a broad data-less assumption. And at the same time moved the goal post from one specializing in this issue to just being a pediatric psychiatrist.  I give you one of the top psychiatrist in this field telling you the field is overwhelmed with demand, you counter with a pulled from your ass guess. Good night Mikey, I mean  homer.

  • Like 1
  • Facepalm 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

And I’m tired of you obsessing over a separate issue while pretending to respond to the one I’ve raised. As I predicted, I gave you two very pro-transition experts long recognized as such who said exactly what I’ve been saying and you totally ignored it. You’re not a strawman- you’re a brick wall.

I didn't ignore it.  Didn't I say that is sounded just like the European "reports" you have been quoting?  Now you're just starting to lie about me. 

Let's just agree to disagree - about whatever you're upset about - and just drop the discussion. 

One of us needs a break.

 

Edited by homersapien
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

You just made a broad data-less assumption. And at the same time moved the goal post from one specializing in this issue to just being a pediatric psychiatrist.  I give you one of the top psychiatrist in this field telling you the field is overwhelmed with demand, you counter with a pulled from your ass guess. Good night Mikey, I mean  homer.

Any pediatric psychiatrist is going to be versed in this condition.  Any of them by definition.  That's their job as a pediatric psychiatrist.  They studied gender dysphoria as part of their psychiatric training - likely with an emphasis since they are pediatric psychiatrists.

And if they are just getting started and don't have prior clinical experience with it (which may or may not be likely) it's up to the parent/patient to find a more experienced one they prefer.  (And I am sure the inexperienced pediatric psychiatrist would be willing to make a referral.)

Don't be such a pedantic a-hole. :no:

Edited by homersapien
  • Dislike 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

You just made a broad data-less assumption. And at the same time moved the goal post from one specializing in this issue to just being a pediatric psychiatrist.  I give you one of the top psychiatrist in this field telling you the field is overwhelmed with demand, you counter with a pulled from your ass guess. Good night Mikey, I mean  homer.

It was not an assumption, it was a "bet".  And I precluded it with "not that I have done the research" which was my up-front concession it was "data-less".  (Thus, the "bet".) :-\

If you are going to be that pedantic, I suggest you up your precision.  And man, you are obviously really taking my rhetoric personally.  Sorry about that. 

But congratulations, you just took the "biggest liberal jerk on the forum" title from me.  ;D

 

Edited by homersapien
  • Facepalm 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

@PUB78 you wandered into the serious forum. Act accordingly.

I am serious. Transgender is a true sickness 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

It was not an assumption, it was a "bet".  And I precluded it with "not that "I have done the research" which was my up-front concession it was "data-less".  (Thus, the "bet".) :-\

If you are going to be that pedantic, I suggest you up your precision.  And man, you are obviously really taking my rhetoric personally.  Sorry about that. 

But congratulations, you just took the "biggest liberal jerk on the forum" title from me.  ;D

 

Nope not even close.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, homersapien said:

You may be right but I - for one - am not going to accuse U.S. practitioners of widespread malpractice without some evidence that's the case.  I don't know why that seems to upset you.

Right after the opioid epidemic... good for you for having such an amazing gift for forgiveness.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
  • Facepalm 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, homersapien said:

First, I am not believing anything.  Actually, I am refusing to believe what you are assuming due to lack of evidence.

And again, it seems to me that the "standards" are pretty much the same everywhere.  You are just assuming U.S. professionals are abusing them (as if foreign professionals can't abuse their standards if they wanted to). 

Again, there are no hard, quantitative rules or standards in either places.  These European countries do not prohibit medications or surgeries, nor do they mandate anything.

I seriously doubt state legislative efforts will be so indeterminate, which may - or may not - benefit the majority of patients.  It's a decision best left up to the patients, their parents and the caretakers IMO.

You may be right but I - for one - am not going to accuse U.S. practitioners of widespread malpractice without some evidence that's the case.  I don't know why that seems to upset you.

If you are simply arguing European healthcare systems are more rationalized and effective than ours, I would tend to agree.  But that's not enough for me to conclude there is widespread malpractice in this country without any evidence.

 

What Tex is saying is obvious even to the most casual observer. There are studies published by accredited and credible European medical groups that have implemented and urged restraint. It is so obviously true and credible that

image.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, homersapien said:

What do you mean by "this"?

What exactly is being "rammed down everyone else's throat"?  And by whom?

Since you have so much trouble following any thought over even 1-2 posts.

This: US Pediatric Psychologists ignore their counterparts across the globe and prescribe treatments that are no longer supported in other professional and practiced nations.

Rammed Down the Throats: The US's politically driven denial of hard academically driven decisions from other nations that we have for decades acknowledged as peers. We in America are now rejecting peer-based review of scientifically researched conclusions and practices. 

In case you missed it: the American "So-Called" Science Community is ignoring peer-reviewed papers and conclusions so that they can promote the politics. Just as I said before, Scientists, especially American scientists, seem to be slaves to their biases, politics, and beliefs etc. 

Edited by DKW 86
  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Since you have so much trouble following any thought over even 1-2 posts.

This: US Pediatric Psychologists ignore their counterparts across the globe and prescribe treatments that are no longer supported in other professional and practiced nations.

Rammed Down the Throats: The US's politically driven denial of hard academically driven decisions from other nations that we have for decades acknowledged as peers. We in America are now rejecting peer-based review of scientifically researched conclusions and practices. 

In case you missed it: the American "So-Called" Science Community is ignoring peer-reviewed papers and conclusions so that they can promote the politics. Just as I said before, Scientists, especially American scientists, seem to be slaves to their biases, politics, and beliefs etc. 

What a baseless rant.  Pure conspiratorial nonsense.   :ucrazy:

Show me the research regarding the U.S.  Show me some evidence American practitioners are "ignoring" European research reports. Show me some evidence for anything you said regarding U.S. practice.   

Bottom line, this is nothing more than your baseless, hysterical opinion.  

 

Edited by homersapien
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Mims44 said:

Right after the opioid epidemic... good for you for having such an amazing gift for forgiveness.

So, you're equating the marketing activities of a handful of opioid drug manufacturers with general psychiatric care of gender dysphoric children? 

Yeah, that makes sense. :rolleyes: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

What Tex is saying is obvious even to the most casual observer. There are studies published by accredited and credible European medical groups that have implemented and urged restraint. It is so obviously true and credible that

 

Please show me where I have denied or disputed that.

That's not the issue.  Apparently, you are not even reading for content.  You're simply imagining what my position is, a.k.a. making s*** up.  

If you aren't even reading my posts, don't comment on my position.

 

 

Edited by homersapien
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, homersapien said:

So, you're equating the marketing activities of a handful of opioid drug manufacturers with general psychiatric care of gender dysphoric children? 

Yeah, that makes sense. :rolleyes: 

Drug manufacturers don’t prescribe medication to patients. Doctors do. I think he’s talking more about an assumption that doctors with huge caseloads will consistently exercise caution, thoroughness & restraint.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Drug manufacturers don’t prescribe medication to patients. Doctors do. I think he’s talking more about an assumption that doctors with huge caseloads will consistently exercise caution, thoroughness & restraint.

Doctors prescribe drugs largely based on information provided to them by the drug manufacturers.  In the opioid case, the manufacturers were intentionally or fraudulently misrepresenting the risks.

Regardless, I don't see how the opioid problem directly relates to the subject at hand.

Edited by homersapien
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, homersapien said:

So, you're equating the marketing activities of a handful of opioid drug manufacturers with general psychiatric care of gender dysphoric children? 

Yeah, that makes sense. :rolleyes: 

That's a false equivalency Homer ;) 

 

You know I wasn't talking about the drug manufacturer since your post that I replied to mentioned practitioners.

 

But I see someone else already pointed that out to you...

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Doctors prescribe drugs largely based on information provided to them by the drug manufacturers.

In this case the manufacturers were misrepresenting the risks.

I don't see how the opioid problem relates the subject at hand.

Which takes us back around again, If by your own words you want to put your trust in practitioners, who by your own words put their trust into the drug manufacturers.... Then guess who you're actually trusting to make these decisions? 

Hint: It's the people that again, by your own words will misrepresent risks. :) 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Doctors prescribe drugs largely based on information provided to them by the drug manufacturers.  In this case, the manufacturers were intentionally or fraudulently misrepresenting the risks.

Regardless, I don't see how the opioid problem directly relates to the subject at hand.

Well, that’s not utilizing a very reliable source of information to make medical decisions, is it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

That's a false equivalency Homer ;) 

 

You know I wasn't talking about the drug manufacturer since your post that I replied to mentioned practitioners.

 

But I see someone else already pointed that out to you...

Which takes us back around again, If by your own words you want to put your trust in practitioners, who by your own words put their trust into the drug manufacturers.... Then guess who you're actually trusting to make these decisions? 

Hint: It's the people that again, by your own words will misrepresent risks. :) 

I have put my trust in practitioners for five (5) major surgeries since 2019, two emergency and three elective. 

So, yeah, I guess you can say I ultimately "put my trust" in medical professionals (after I do my personal homework).

I am curious how you handle your healthcare needs?  Pray?

Edited by homersapien
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Well, that’s not utilizing a very reliable source of information to make medical decisions, is it?

Are you referring to doctors relying on pharmaceutical manufacturers for information on the drugs they prescribe?

Where else are they going to get such information? 

It's the drug manufacturers who conduct all of the research and clinical trials (which are submitted to the FDA for final approval).  The drugs are their invention. No one else has this information.

   

Edited by homersapien
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Are you referring to doctors relying on pharmaceutical manufacturers for information on the drugs they prescribe?

Where else are they going to get such information? 

It's the drug manufacturers who conduct all of the research and clinical trials (which are submitted to the FDA for final approval).  The drugs are their invention. No one else has this information.

   

You think that’s a sound model?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...