Here's what racial profiling will get you

[Piglet 0]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../ixnewstop.html

WHAT IS KNOWN: The police, who were searching for four men suspected of trying to detonate explosives on the London transport system on July 21, had placed a block of flats on Scotia Road, Tulse Hill, south London, under observation as a result of information found at one of the bomb scenes.

They believed that the nine flats contained one or more of the alleged terrorists.

At 9.33am on July 22, Mr de Menezes left the block and went to a nearby bus stop. Police saw him and, judging him to be of Asian appearance, suspected him to be one of the terrorists.

No positive identification was made because an officer was relieving himself at the time. According to the leaked documents, the officer said: "As he walked out of my line of vision I checked the photographs and transmitted that it would be worth someone else having a look.

"I should point out that as I observed this male exiting the block I was in the process of relieving myself.

"At this time I was not able to transmit my observations and switch on the video camera at the same time. There is therefore no video footage of this male."

So he wasn't running away from anybody at any time, he wasn't wearing weird clothes, and he didn't have any time to resist--the cops just ran up, threw him down and shot him.

And apparently, the witnesses who saw a man in a big coat jumping the turnstiles, pursued by tricked-out police, were looking at a cop. Nobody even noticed the actual, now dead, guy. That's how "running away from the police" he was.

...and all because some cop on surveillance detail was taking a leak.

I can't think of anything biting or whatever to add to this. Except this is really cute: "It has now been disclosed that 11 shots were fired by two police officers. The three other bullets missed their target."

Man, that's some fancy shootin' there, pards. Not only did these two clowns feel compelled to fire as many bullets as possible into the head of a restrained man a couple feet away, they missed three times.

[AURaptor 1,137]

exactly what the terrorist want.

[TrueBlue72 0]

Piglet, are you the reincarnation of someone who called himself, Donutboy here? Not since his departure have I seen such incoherent left-wing drivel posted around these parts!

When dealing with terrorists, we have but two choices, fight or submit. I, for one, have no desire to study the koran and pray to mecca every day. We must do whatever it takes to defeat these people! If a person looks like a terrorist (yes, most of them do look a certain way) and ACTS like a terrorist, then treat them as such until we know differently. I feel badly for the guy who was shot in London, but he should NOT have been running from the police!

[TexasTiger 14,547]

Piglet, are you the reincarnation of someone who called himself, Donutboy here?  Not since his departure have I seen such incoherent left-wing drivel posted around these parts! 

When dealing with terrorists, we have but two choices, fight or submit.  I, for one, have no desire to study the koran and pray to mecca every day.  We must do whatever it takes to defeat these people!  If a person looks like a terrorist (yes, most of them do look a certain way) and ACTS like a terrorist, then treat them as such until we know differently.  I feel badly for the guy who was shot in London, but he should NOT have been running from the police!

174684[/snapback]

Imagine yourself in a foreign country being chased by agitated men in plain clothes yelling for you to stop. Perhaps this needs to happen to a loved one just to make you actually think about how incredibly Keystoned Cop botched this thing was.

[WarTim 3,534]

Profiling is wrong. The next time a police officer sees a man with a gun taking shots into a crowd, he should just walk away.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

Imagine yourself in a foreign country being chased by agitated men in plain clothes yelling for you to stop.  Perhaps this needs to happen to a loved one just to make you actually think about how incredibly Keystoned Cop botched this thing was.

174694[/snapback]

The police made a mistake.

What will be happening now is an endless series of public inquiries will take place, which will undoubtedly include a complete review of the shoot to kill policy. The end result of all this nonsense will be that if there are actual suicide bombers attempting to board a train; the police will be completely hamstrung by their colleagues' trigger happiness and the leftists obsession with obstructing anything dealing with national security.

That being said, all I can say is that I am extremely grateful I don't live in London.

[jaydubb121 22]

I think the point that is missed in this story is that some cop was taking a leak on the street apparently. Where's the outrage?

[Piglet 0]

Piglet, are you the reincarnation of someone who called himself, Donutboy here?  Not since his departure have I seen such incoherent left-wing drivel posted around these parts! 

When dealing with terrorists, we have but two choices, fight or submit.  I, for one, have no desire to study the koran and pray to mecca every day.  We must do whatever it takes to defeat these people!  If a person looks like a terrorist (yes, most of them do look a certain way) and ACTS like a terrorist, then treat them as such until we know differently.  I feel badly for the guy who was shot in London, but he should NOT have been running from the police!

174684[/snapback]

Read the article again. He wasn't running from the police (although the police at first said he was). He wasn't wearing a suspiciously thick coat for summer weather (although the police at first said he was). He did not jump a turnstile (although the police at first said he did). In fact, all he did was appear to be Asian (he was from Brazil, but them people all look alike, you know), and he lived near the place they were staking out.

I'm real sorry it looks to you like "incoherent left-wing drivel" that I object to an innocent guy taking eight bullets for appearing to be Asian. I guess you'd rather we live in the world of McBain...

CHIEF: McBain! You killed five innocent bystanders!

MCBAIN: I vood haff killed a million to get Mendoza.

Yeah, I'd feel a lot safer knowing we were protected by a bunch of rogue can-do cops who don't let a bunch of sissyass "rules" stand in the way of mowing down the bad guys. As long as the guilty die along with the innocent, it doesn't matter how many we kill. Besides, the nonterrorists who get killed probably did something to deserve it, too. After all, they don't look like us. Yet.

The good news is, this happened in Britain, which is part of Europe, which as we know, can't do anything right. Such a snafu would never have happened here in the USA. Of course.

[AURaptor 1,137]

Piglet, are you the reincarnation of someone who called himself, Donutboy here?  Not since his departure have I seen such incoherent left-wing drivel posted around these parts! 

When dealing with terrorists, we have but two choices, fight or submit.  I, for one, have no desire to study the koran and pray to mecca every day.  We must do whatever it takes to defeat these people!  If a person looks like a terrorist (yes, most of them do look a certain way) and ACTS like a terrorist, then treat them as such until we know differently.  I feel badly for the guy who was shot in London, but he should NOT have been running from the police!

174684[/snapback]

Imagine yourself in a foreign country being chased by agitated men in plain clothes yelling for you to stop. Perhaps this needs to happen to a loved one just to make you actually think about how incredibly Keystoned Cop botched this thing was.

174694[/snapback]

Just shows how life is imperfect. Except for one thing - the terrorist wanted to murder innocent people. Can't say the same for the London police. ( Well, maybe some on the extrem hard Left , but no sane person can. )

[TexasTiger 14,547]

Piglet, are you the reincarnation of someone who called himself, Donutboy here?  Not since his departure have I seen such incoherent left-wing drivel posted around these parts! 

When dealing with terrorists, we have but two choices, fight or submit.  I, for one, have no desire to study the koran and pray to mecca every day.  We must do whatever it takes to defeat these people!  If a person looks like a terrorist (yes, most of them do look a certain way) and ACTS like a terrorist, then treat them as such until we know differently.  I feel badly for the guy who was shot in London, but he should NOT have been running from the police!

174684[/snapback]

Imagine yourself in a foreign country being chased by agitated men in plain clothes yelling for you to stop. Perhaps this needs to happen to a loved one just to make you actually think about how incredibly Keystoned Cop botched this thing was.

174694[/snapback]

Just shows how life is imperfect. Except for one thing - the terrorist wanted to murder innocent people. Can't say the same for the London police. ( Well, maybe some on the extrem hard Left , but no sane person can. )

174791[/snapback]

You're another one for whom such "imperfections" may have to hit closer to home to get you to actually engage in a little deeper reflection than "Sh#t happens".

I'm not faulting the intentions of the London police-- I think it does highlight how fear can cloud thinking and performance, though, this time with tragic results.

Good intentions don't compensate for incompetent actions when this kind of result is a likely consequence. An honest, forthright review is warranted, without lame excuses or justifications. I don't believe anyone needs to be crucified because of it, but the process needs a good hard look.

[alexgreatau 0]

Texas Tiger and Piglet,

This is one of the several innevitable results of the Labor Party failures to deal with terrorism sooner under Tony Blair. Remember, terrorism and radical Islam has been a festering movement growing within the walls of the United Kingdon for many years now. The radical Islamic clerics have infested the walls of the UK, espoused hatred for the UK, and have enticed their sycophant followers to carry out jihadist acts against English civilians for years. On July 7, 2005, a few loyal followers of these radical clerics answered the call and killed over 50 people in London.

Before the London tragedy, how many of these clerics did Tony Blair and his labor party extradite? None. How many did they arrest and put in jail? None. Did they take any preventative measures against terrorism with the exception of supporting Bush in Iraq? No.

The Labor Party didn't do a damn thing. Maybe they didn't take the threat seriously. Maybe they are spineless cowards, which I don't think is the case because Blair has been steadfast in his support of Bush in Iraq. Whatever the case may be, Blair's government failed the UK as Bill Clinton failed the U.S by refusing to take preventative measures against Osama Bin Laden and Al Quaida in the 1990's.

The point I'm trying to make here is that the English authorities are now taking the threat seriously but unfortunately, are playing catch-up in the process. The police in London and everywhere in the UK are not inexperienced and unnacustomed to counterterrorism procedures. It will take them a while to adapt. In the meantime, mistakes will be made and as much as it pains me to say this, some innocent people will die. In counterterrorim law enforcement, you don't know who's who, who did what, who's plotting, who's not, etc. You have intelligence, you make a solid assumption, and you act on that intelligence. Sometimes you make mistakes, but more times than not you're right. I choose not to focus on the failures over their but the recent success that they've had arresting radicals and those connected to the July attacks.

This is not about racial profiling, which I think is a good idea. You never made a really strong argument against it other than this isolated incident. Do you understand that 99% of terrorist acts over the last fifty years have been committed by men of mideastern, arabic decent, thus giving us a compelling case for racial profiling in America, UK, and abroad? Maybe you do and I hope you do. Although this one case is a tragedy, it is a tragedy because the British authorities are inexperienced in this area and as a result, an innocent man lost his life.

This is not a referendum on racial profiling.

Alex

[AURaptor 1,137]

You're another one for whom such "imperfections" may have to hit closer to home to get you to actually engage in a little deeper reflection than "Sh#t happens".

What are you even trying to say ? Engage in a little deeper reflection... ??? Yes, 'stuff' DOES happen. What is with this pseudo intellectual crap of engaging in deeper reflection? I don't have to do ANYTHING, but recognize events for what they are.

Islamic terrorist attacked people going to work in London, killing over 50 men and women who hadn't done a damn thing to those who wanted them dead. There is absolute zero justification for this act. Period. 4 more Islamic terrorist tried to kill even MORE civilians, but thankfully failed. As a result, another tragic death occured as the police mistook a man for a possible terrorist. Though there was clearly gross error on seveal levels, the screw up wasn't in their carrying out of their duty, but only on WHOM it was carried.

To date, profiling per the Islamic terrorist still holds to being the most loical aproach to combating this threat, as the ones doing the killing still fall into a specific group.

[TexasTiger 14,547]

You're another one for whom such "imperfections" may have to hit closer to home to get you to actually engage in a little deeper reflection than "Sh#t happens".

What are you even trying to say ? Engage in a little deeper reflection... ??? Yes, 'stuff' DOES happen. What is with this pseudo intellectual crap of engaging in deeper reflection? I don't have to do ANYTHING, but recognize events for what they are.

Islamic terrorist attacked people going to work in London, killing over 50 men and women who hadn't done a damn thing to those who wanted them dead. There is absolute zero justification for this act. Period. 4 more Islamic terrorist tried to kill even MORE civilians, but thankfully failed. As a result, another tragic death occured as the police mistook a man for a possible terrorist. Though there was clearly gross error on seveal levels, the screw up wasn't in their carrying out of their duty, but only on WHOM it was carried.

To date, profiling per the Islamic terrorist still holds to being the most loical aproach to combating this threat, as the ones doing the killing still fall into a specific group.

174878[/snapback]

I've never mentioned "profiling". The biggest problem here was incompetence and incompetent actions need to be scrutinized and potential future "errors" minimized. I.E. If this address was suspected to house terrorists, then why only one officer watching it whom you know will be distracted when he has to "relieve" himself?

[Tiger in Spain 0]

The biggest problem here was incompetence and incompetent actions

174893[/snapback]

No, the biggest problem here appears to me to be confusion and chaos in the midst of a terrorist attack. This is just another example of how wrong it is for people to make mistakes, especially when in a life or death situation. The fact that the police mistook this innocent illegal alien for a terrorist is absolutely inexcusable and the ones responsible for his death should be ruined for the remainder of their life. The gall of these policemen for making a mistake.......

[TexasTiger 14,547]

The biggest problem here was incompetence and incompetent actions

174893[/snapback]

No, the biggest problem here appears to me to be confusion and chaos in the midst of a terrorist attack. This is just another example of how wrong it is for people to make mistakes, especially when in a life or death situation. The fact that the police mistook this innocent illegal alien for a terrorist is absolutely inexcusable and the ones responsible for his death should be ruined for the remainder of their life. The gall of these policemen for making a mistake.......

174900[/snapback]

I wonder if you would be so flip if it were your own son? So you think having one officer watching a house with suspected deadly terrorists who warranted being shot on sight was a wise plan? Wait a minute-- you think the Iraqi occupation is going well, too. Never mind.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

I wonder if you would be so flip if it were your own son?  So you think having one officer watching a house with suspected deadly terrorists who warranted being shot on sight was a wise plan?

174920[/snapback]

Like I said, a mistake was made. I, for one, am willing to give those that risk their lives daily to keep people (even the moonbats) safe the benefit of the doubt when they mess up every now and then. If the police had swarmed the tube with guns blazing, shooting everything in sight, then I may be able to share your and Piglet's disdain for the Bobbies in this instance. That didn't happen so, as unfortunate as this illegal aliens death was, I am still a fan of the police.

Wait a minute-- you think the Iraqi occupation is going well, too.  Never mind. 

174920[/snapback]

The liberation is going well. Want some good news?:

On Aug. 5, GIs and medics from the 1st Battalion, 24th Infantry Division, plus Iraqi police, performed health screenings on 200 Mosul children. They also gave these kids soccer balls.

During five such missions since mid-July, some 1,000 kids in Mosul received basic medical attention.

Infrastructure improvements also are encouraging. A new Kirkuk treatment plant began providing clean water to 5,000 people on June 27, the State Department says. Another 84 U.S.-led waterworks projects are under way in Iraq, while 114 have been completed.

Some 18,000 pupils will study in rehabilitated classrooms when they go back to school in mid-September. According to U.S. and Iraqi officials, 43 more schools were slated for renovation Aug. 6. So far, 3,211 schools have been refurbished, and another 773 are being repaired.

Iraq's monthly oil exports have grown from $200 million in June 2003 to $2.5 billion last month. This is due both to higher prices and to the fact that fuel supplies have swelled from 23 percent to 97 percent of official production goals in that period. These key improvements also help explain why Iraq's gross domestic product increased from a World Bank estimate of $12.1 billion in 2003 to a projected $21.1 billion in 2004.

Iraqis who endured Baathist censorship now enjoy a vibrant, free press.

Commercial TV channels, radio stations and independent newspapers and magazines have zoomed from zero before Operation Iraqi Freedom to -- respectively -- 29, 80 and 170 today.

Internet subscribers have boomed from 4,500 before Iraq's liberation to 147,076 last March, not counting the additional Iraqis who use Internet cafes. When Saddam Hussein fell, Iraq had 833,000 telephone subscribers. In July that figure had soared 356.4 percent to 3,801,822.

In the political arena, women hold seven of Baghdad's top 40 ministerial positions. While Iraq is more than 17.5 percent female, this is impressive political involvement for women in the world's most sexist region. Among others, women run Iraq's ministries of communications, environment, public works and human rights.

Link

See, good things are indeed happening......it's not just a conjured up story by the right wing controlled press.

Now, run along and go kick a cat.

[Wishbone 0]

The guy from Brazil wouldn't have died if the UK didn't allow muslims to flood there country. Muslims don't belong in the western world.

[TexasTiger 14,547]

I wonder if you would be so flip if it were your own son?  So you think having one officer watching a house with suspected deadly terrorists who warranted being shot on sight was a wise plan?

174920[/snapback]

Like I said, a mistake was made. I, for one, am willing to give those that risk their lives daily to keep people (even the moonbats) safe the benefit of the doubt when they mess up every now and then. If the police had swarmed the tube with guns blazing, shooting everything in sight, then I may be able to share your and Piglet's disdain for the Bobbies in this instance. That didn't happen so, as unfortunate as this illegal aliens death was, I am still a fan of the police.

174927[/snapback]

Stop kicking cats and work on your reading comprehension skills. I actually sympathize with the officer who is told by some moron making the call that he needs to watch the house and not take a leak his whole shift. Just as I sympathize with the troops who serve admirably despite an administration that sent inadequate troop levels.

[alexgreatau 0]

Texas Tiger and Piglet,

I have only been a member of aunation.net for one month now. I'm not familiar with the posts that you have made on the political forum nor am I familiar with your political persuasions. Both of you sound liberal but I could be wrong. Also, I don't know how much time and energy both of you have put into posting columns about all of the Islamic wackos who are currently making the entire world miserable today with their suicide and car bombs. I don't know if you two have devoted both time and energy here into posting all of the atrocities committed by Osama bin Laden and his cheap thugs. I don't know if you've devoted both time and energy into chronicling the atrocities committed in Iraq by Sadaam Hussein. Maybe you two have posted comments and acted as indignant in the past as you are acting now concerning this police officer in the UK.

Considering the myriad atrocities taking place in the world today under the pretense of Islam, you seem fit to make a comment about a few police officers who made a mistake in London. It wasn't an atrocity, it wasn't murder, it was a mistake. A mistake that took place because London officials and police officers panicked after their country was attacked by Islamic savages who want to take all of us back to the 14th century.

I just think that all of the time and energy that you've given to this one incident could be better used to support our troops in Iraq and the overall global effort to defeat terrorism worldwide. I don't know you personally and maybe you support the war on terror just as much as I do, but promulgating and debating every solitary incident by the police department in the UK or elsewhere is ridiculous. These good men and women are fighting a savage enemy who won't show his face and blends in with the crowd, all the while plotting to kill everyone in that crowd with a bomb. Let's give these policemen the benefit of the doubt here.

Alex

[TexasTiger 14,547]

Texas Tiger and Piglet,

I have only been a member of aunation.net for one month now. I'm not familiar with the posts that you have made on the political forum nor am I familiar with your political persuasions. Both of you sound liberal but I could be wrong. Also, I don't know how much time and energy both of you have put into posting columns about all of the Islamic wackos who are currently making the entire world miserable today with their suicide and car bombs. I don't know if you two have devoted both time and energy here into posting all of the atrocities committed by Osama bin Laden and his cheap thugs. I don't know if you've devoted both time and energy into chronicling the atrocities committed in Iraq by Sadaam Hussein. Maybe you two have posted comments and acted as indignant in the past as you are acting now concerning this police officer in the UK.

Considering the myriad atrocities taking place in the world today under the pretense of Islam, you seem fit to make a comment about a few police officers who made a mistake in London. It wasn't an atrocity, it wasn't murder, it was a mistake. A mistake that took place because London officials and police officers panicked after their country was attacked by Islamic savages who want to take all of us back to the 14th century.

I just think that all of the time and energy that you've given to this one incident could be better used to support our troops in Iraq and the overall global effort to defeat terrorism worldwide. I don't know you personally and maybe you support the war on terror just as much as I do, but promulgating and debating every solitary incident by the police department in the UK or elsewhere is ridiculous. These good men and women are fighting a savage enemy who won't show his face and blends in with the crowd, all the while plotting to kill everyone in that crowd with a bomb. Let's give these policemen the benefit of the doubt here.

Alex

174955[/snapback]

Alex:

I didn't bring this topic up, but if you actually read this thread, you will see that I initially joined the fray responding to someone who essentially blamed the dead guy for running from the cops. Since then most of the Right Wingers on this forum seem uncomfortable with any meaningful scrutiny of what happened. I find that unhealthy and unconstructive. Your post is in that vein as well. This is particularly priceless:

I just think that all of the time and energy that you've given to this one incident could be better used to support our troops in Iraq and the overall global effort to defeat terrorism worldwide.

Of all the threads and posts you choose to make this comment on, to choose this one, to use your word, is ridiculous. If you think about it, if it is a question of making a choice of where to cut back on wasted time to "support our troops", do you really think the time we spend talking about football or which high school player may sign with who next February is really a better use of time? How about "Rock A-Z"?

Post whatever drivel you want. Everyone else does. But please spare us the sanctimonious crap, couched in the context of how much you hope we support the global war on terror as much as you do.

[alexgreatau 0]

Alex:

I didn't bring this topic up, but if you actually read this thread, you will see that I initially joined the fray responding to someone who essentially blamed the dead guy for running from the cops. Since then most of the Right Wingers on this forum seem uncomfortable with any meaningful scrutiny of what happened. I find that unhealthy and unconstructive. Your post is in that vein as well. This is particularly priceless:

If you actually read my thread, then you will see that I never accused you of starting this topic. I can read, Piglet started this topic, not you. You decided to join and your comments are similar to the ones that Piglet made. Hence, that's the reason why I addressed both you and Piglet in my last post.

I'm not uncomfortable with any "meaningful scrutiny" on this topic. Actually, I agree with you. The police were wrong in this case and hopefully it won't happen again. My point is that this shooting was an accident, nothing more. The police in the UK are years from where they need to be in counterterrorism measures and unfortunately, incidents like this may occur again. Yes, it's unfair but then again, so is life. I know that you liberals are all for fairness and noone gets left behind but unfortunately, destiny sometimes has other plans.

Of all the threads and posts you choose to make this comment on, to choose this one, to use your word, is ridiculous. If you think about it, if it is a question of making a choice of where to cut back on wasted time to "support our troops", do you really think the time we spend talking about football or which high school player may sign with who next February is really a better use of time? How about "Rock A-Z"?

Dude, you can choose to post whatever you want. I'm not your father and can't tell you where to devote you energy. Personally, I don't care if you talk about "Rock A - Z", football, soccer, elmo, friends, etc. This is a free country and you can do whatever you want. If you're gonna talk politics, then it would be nice for a change if you liberals instead of wasting your time bringing up every prisoner abuse scandal, every Abu Grahib, every police mistake in London, would add a little perspective and balance. If you're gonna mention police brutality in London, fine. At the same time, you seem not to mention the terrorist attacks in London that have recently forced English police to be more aggressive than usual, leading to incidents such as this one. That's all I'm saying, a little balance and perspective never hurt anyone but you can and say as you please.

In regards to wasted time. If you're gonna talk politics, it would be nice to focus on all the good that the allies in the world are doing to eradicate terrorism from this world as opposed to focusing on all the bad and every police abuse scandal.

Post whatever drivel you want. Everyone else does. But please spare us the sanctimonious crap, couched in the context of how much you hope we support the global war on terror as much as you do.

I will continue to post on this website and the only reason why you refer to my words as "drivel" is because I have an opinion you disagree with. If you want drivel, then look no further than your side of the political isle and all of your liberal wacko friends who walk around with signs that say, "Bush lied kids died, No blood for oil, American terrorist, kill Bush," etc. That is drivel. Bush is a liar and a cheap thug is drivel. Bush is a freeking idiot is cheap drivel.

Supporting the troops is sanctimonious crap, according to you liberals. If we're patriotic, then we're nazis. If we support the war effort, then we're war mongers. If we believe in preemption, then we're the terrorists, not Al Quaida. I've heard it all from you liberals before so nothing you say surprises me.

My apologies for hoping that you support the troops as much as I do.

I thank God everyday that George Bush is our president and the likes of you and your liberal cohorts are not currently in power in this country. God help us all if liberals like you are ever in a position of power in this country.

Alex

[TexasTiger 14,547]

Alex:

I didn't bring this topic up, but if you actually read this thread, you will see that I initially joined the fray responding to someone who essentially blamed the dead guy for running from the cops. Since then most of the Right Wingers on this forum seem uncomfortable with any meaningful scrutiny of what happened. I find that unhealthy and unconstructive. Your post is in that vein as well. This is particularly priceless:

If you actually read my thread, then you will see that I never accused you of starting this topic. I can read, Piglet started this topic, not you. You decided to join and your comments are similar to the ones that Piglet made. Hence, that's the reason why I addressed both you and Piglet in my last post.

I'm not uncomfortable with any "meaningful scrutiny" on this topic. Actually, I agree with you. The police were wrong in this case and hopefully it won't happen again. My point is that this shooting was an accident, nothing more. The police in the UK are years from where they need to be in counterterrorism measures and unfortunately, incidents like this may occur again. Yes, it's unfair but then again, so is life. I know that you liberals are all for fairness and noone gets left behind but unfortunately, destiny sometimes has other plans.

Of all the threads and posts you choose to make this comment on, to choose this one, to use your word, is ridiculous. If you think about it, if it is a question of making a choice of where to cut back on wasted time to "support our troops", do you really think the time we spend talking about football or which high school player may sign with who next February is really a better use of time? How about "Rock A-Z"?

Dude, you can choose to post whatever you want. I'm not your father and can't tell you where to devote you energy. Personally, I don't care if you talk about "Rock A - Z", football, soccer, elmo, friends, etc. This is a free country and you can do whatever you want. If you're gonna talk politics, then it would be nice for a change if you liberals instead of wasting your time bringing up every prisoner abuse scandal, every Abu Grahib, every police mistake in London, would add a little perspective and balance. If you're gonna mention police brutality in London, fine. At the same time, you seem not to mention the terrorist attacks in London that have recently forced English police to be more aggressive than usual, leading to incidents such as this one. That's all I'm saying, a little balance and perspective never hurt anyone but you can and say as you please.

In regards to wasted time. If you're gonna talk politics, it would be nice to focus on all the good that the allies in the world are doing to eradicate terrorism from this world as opposed to focusing on all the bad and every police abuse scandal.

Post whatever drivel you want. Everyone else does. But please spare us the sanctimonious crap, couched in the context of how much you hope we support the global war on terror as much as you do.

I will continue to post on this website and the only reason why you refer to my words as "drivel" is because I have an opinion you disagree with. If you want drivel, then look no further than your side of the political isle and all of your liberal wacko friends who walk around with signs that say, "Bush lied kids died, No blood for oil, American terrorist, kill Bush," etc. That is drivel. Bush is a liar and a cheap thug is drivel. Bush is a freeking idiot is cheap drivel.

Supporting the troops is sanctimonious crap, according to you liberals. If we're patriotic, then we're nazis. If we support the war effort, then we're war mongers. If we believe in preemption, then we're the terrorists, not Al Quaida. I've heard it all from you liberals before so nothing you say surprises me.

My apologies for hoping that you support the troops as much as I do.

I thank God everyday that George Bush is our president and the likes of you and your liberal cohorts are not currently in power in this country. God help us all if liberals like you are ever in a position of power in this country.

Alex

175019[/snapback]

Alex: "Why don't you only post that which we can all agree on, i.e. terrorism is bad."

Well, Dude, I didn't really question that we all agree terrorism is bad. It is only in your simpleton world that those who don't share your every opinion somehow support the "bad guys."

I said everyone posts "whatever drivel" they want. That's in the eye of the beholder to sort out what's what. You don't like what I posted, although you didn't take on a single specific point. You just lumped it into your strawman liberal.

"A little balance and perspective"-- that's about as funny coming from you as it is from Fox "News".

You'd prefer a totalitarian state and a board to match it-- you just won't to pick the acceptable topics and views.

Actually, I don't know if you support the troops at all. You worship Dear Leader, but that's not the same thing.

[Tigermike 3,856]

Tex, you need to work on that quote thingajiggy.

[TexasTiger 14,547]

Tex, you need to work on that quote thingajiggy.

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Yeah. Actually, I hit the reply button. Seems Alex had the same problem.

[alexgreatau 0]

Alex: "Why don't you only post that which we can all agree on, i.e. terrorism is bad."

Well, Dude, I didn't really question that we all agree terrorism is bad. It is only in your simpleton world that those who don't share your every opinion somehow support the "bad guys."

I never accused you of supporting terrorism. If you're gonna quote me, then fine, but don' put words in my mouth. Don't make insenuations you can't support with facts.

In regards to my "simpleton view" of the world: Well, I guess that the majority of those who support the President and believe that the allied forces are doing the right thing in Iraq is a simpleton. I guess that those who believe the police officer shooting in London was a mistake is a simpleton.

Once again, I never accused you of supporting the bad guys. What I have said in the past however, is that the liberal rhetoric in this country and all of their anti-Bush diatribes, protest rallies, accusations against Bush, all the Nazi comparison etc., is doing damage to our cause politically. If you don't believe me, then pick up a history book sometime and read about Vietnam. We withdrew our troops in the early 70's not for lack of military victories, but because public support had eroded on the home front. The anti-war people in this country donn't support the bad guys, but they sure as hell aren't supporting our cause either and if you think that doesn't have an affect on our troops overseason, then I don't know what to tell you.

I said everyone posts "whatever drivel" they want. That's in the eye of the beholder to sort out what's what. You don't like what I posted, although you didn't take on a single specific point. You just lumped it into your strawman liberal.

Any great philosopher will tell you that one of the best ways to win an argument is to accuse your opponent of the ole "straw man" fallacy. Actually, I did take on your specific points. If you actually read some of my posts instead of reading only those points where you percieved a personal affront, then you would have realized that I agreed with you on the London thing. My contention was that it was a mistake, you feel otherwise. Fine, case closed, end of story.

"A little balance and perspective"-- that's about as funny coming from you as it is from Fox "News".

You don't like Fox News for the very same reason that I don't like CNN. You're a liberal and I'm a conservative. You don't like Fox News because they give both sides of the story, not just one side. I despise CNN because they only give one side of the story, the liberal one.

You'd prefer a totalitarian state and a board to match it-- you just won't to pick the acceptable topics and views.

Once again, you make a leading statement that you cannot support with facts. I don't ever recall saying that I "preferred a toalitarian state and board to match it." You can write whatever you want, you can say whatever you want. It's a free country. It's funny that you accuse me of such because I work with some of the most liberal people on the planet who are respectful of my views as I am to theirs. I must say that most liberals, not all, usually play the ole proverbial "dictator, nazi, fascist" card when arguing with a conservative. A "nazi" is a conservative winning an argument with a liberal.

Actually, I don't know if you support the troops at all. You worship Dear Leader, but that's not the same thing.

Actually, I do support the troops. I have both a cousin and step brother currently serving in Iraq, who by the way don't share your viewpoints, just to clarify things here.

"You worship Dear Leader." Seriously, you need to be crowned as the king of leading statements here. I don't ever remember referring to worshipping anyone on this site. I support Bush, Tony Blair, and all of are other allies in Iraq. I support a free Iraq. I guess that my support for this cause makes me a "Bush worshipper" in your eyes.

For your information, I'm probably more upset with Bush right now than you are, but for different reasons. Bush is being too politically correct about this war. He's not using the air power of the allies to tame the Sunni triangle. He never should have sent our soldiers into hand-to-hand combat with guerilla savages as LBJ did during the Vietnam War. Donald Rumsfeld is burned out and is doing more damage to our cause than good. We're not doing enough to tame the insurgency and car bombs keep going off every day in Baghdad.

And you actually think that I worship Bush? Sheesh.

Alex

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