Harris Campaign Lies and Flip-Flops

[DKW 86 7,930]

I want you to know I am sure I will vote for Harris, but it is not a ringing endorsement for her. She has flip-flopped so much it is amazing. I know she is ardently for M4A, but will not openly say so during the campaign. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2024/09/22/harris-lies-trump-abortion-project-2025/

the problem is that she says that trump wants to ban abortion nationwide. That is BS, he has stated a 100x that he only wants it to be controlled by the states. 
 

The trump campaign has distanced itself from P2025 many times. Openly criticizing the plan. How can you then tell America a bald faced lie that it is his plan???
 

”lying about Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump's platform, flip-flopping on her own policies and obfuscating on other important things. It makes her actual platform hard to pin down.”

I understand that Trump lies a lot, too, but we already know that. What do we know about Harris?

[I_M4_AU 9,022]

17 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

I understand that Trump lies a lot, too, but we already know that. What do we know about Harris?

Isn’t it the Dem philosophy to have you pass a bill (or vote for a president) before we can find out what is in the bill (or what the president will do)?

Scary stuff to allow the public to be duped like this.

[wdefromtx 3,678]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

I want you to know I am sure I will vote for Harris, but it is not a ringing endorsement for her. She has flip-flopped so much it is amazing. I know she is ardently for M4A, but will not openly say so during the campaign. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2024/09/22/harris-lies-trump-abortion-project-2025/

the problem is that she says that trump wants to ban abortion nationwide. That is BS, he has stated a 100x that he only wants it to be controlled by the states. 
 

The trump campaign has distanced itself from P2025 many times. Openly criticizing the plan. How can you then tell America a bald faced lie that it is his plan???
 

”lying about Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump's platform, flip-flopping on her own policies and obfuscating on other important things. It makes her actual platform hard to pin down.”

I understand that Trump lies a lot, too, but we already know that. What do we know about Harris?

We know the following:

She grew up in a middle-class family. 

And all the stuff that she flip-flopped on that the left says she doesn't want to do......yeah, she still does. 

[homersapien 12,267]

You guys must be new to politics. 

[AU9377 6,073]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

I want you to know I am sure I will vote for Harris, but it is not a ringing endorsement for her. She has flip-flopped so much it is amazing. I know she is ardently for M4A, but will not openly say so during the campaign. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2024/09/22/harris-lies-trump-abortion-project-2025/

the problem is that she says that trump wants to ban abortion nationwide. That is BS, he has stated a 100x that he only wants it to be controlled by the states. 
 

The trump campaign has distanced itself from P2025 many times. Openly criticizing the plan. How can you then tell America a bald faced lie that it is his plan???
 

”lying about Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump's platform, flip-flopping on her own policies and obfuscating on other important things. It makes her actual platform hard to pin down.”

I understand that Trump lies a lot, too, but we already know that. What do we know about Harris?

The authors of Project 2025 are former members of the Trump administration.... those that didn't abandon ship.  The primary author is the former Trump director of OMB and current policy director for the Republican National Committee. 

Vought said he had personally talked to Trump in recent months and received at least one personal “assignment” from him after he left office. He noted that the former president has “been at our organization, he’s raised money for our organization, he’s blessed it … he’s very supportive of what we do.”

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/15/politics/russ-vought-project-2025-trump-secret-recording-invs/index.html

[AU9377 6,073]

I will remind everyone.......  If we allowed states to decide issues concerning individual rights, there would still be water fountains in Alabama labeled White and Colored. 

[DKW 86 7,930]

47 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

I will remind everyone.......  If we allowed states to decide issues concerning individual rights, there would still be water fountains in Alabama labeled White and Colored. 

Wow, you didn’t hurt yourself building that strawman did you?

[DKW 86 7,930]

55 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

The authors of Project 2025 are former members of the Trump administration.... those that didn't abandon ship.  The primary author is the former Trump director of OMB and current policy director for the Republican National Committee. 

Vought said he had personally talked to Trump in recent months and received at least one personal “assignment” from him after he left office. He noted that the former president has “been at our organization, he’s raised money for our organization, he’s blessed it … he’s very supportive of what we do.”

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/15/politics/russ-vought-project-2025-trump-secret-recording-invs/index.html

And that still doesn’t mean much when the campaign has distanced itself from P2025 hundreds of times. The only thing I will say about Trump the man is that he doesn’t do nuance well. If he wants it, he will say so, bragging about it. The Dems are saying he wants to nationalize abortion ban. Now, in the real world, there is zero chance of that happening. We all know that. That would have to be passed in Congress and that ain’t happening. Trump has said that he wanted to kick it back to the states. That is where it is at now. Trump has historically supported abortion. Folks, prior to 2015 he was a long time Democrat. Hell he has likely paid for several abortions himself. 

Edited September 23 by DKW 86

[wdefromtx 3,678]

2025 is just some boogeyman that the liberals keep throwing out there to scare people. 

2025 is not a part of his policy, people can be making secret plans all they want. It's not Trump making these secret plans. 

But keep on spreading the lies, it helps more people wake up and see what many have said all along. 

Trump may say a lot a wacky stuff, but when it comes to policy, he usually does what he says he will do. He said he was going to build a wall, he built some before it was called racist and stopped, the same racist wall that ended up in a KH ad. He said he would appoint conservative judges, and he did.

Mexico never paid up, for the wall. 

[I_M4_AU 9,022]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

I will remind everyone.......  If we allowed states to decide issues concerning individual rights, there would still be water fountains in Alabama labeled White and Colored. 

Are you living in the 1860’s?  That is when the Democrats, through propaganda, convinced themselves slavery was Godly and the law of the land.  Today’s Democrats, through propaganda, have convinced themselves Biden was a viable candidate and deserved 4 more years up until June 27th.  At the point they convinced themselves he was not a viable candidate, but was ok to run the country until Jan 2025.  Then, convinced themselves that the most unpopular VP in modern politics was the best candidate to run the country and installed her as the Democrats’ candidate for the highest office in the land without a challenger while she tries to distance herself from the fact she was VP for the last 3.5 years.

They say the Dems and Republicans switch stances at some point.  If that is true, they must have switched back.

[CoffeeTiger 5,921]

 

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

 

Trump may say a lot a wacky stuff, but when it comes to policy, he usually does what he says he will do. He said he was going to build a wall, he built some before it was called racist and stopped, the same racist wall that ended up in a KH ad. He said he would appoint conservative judges, and he did.

Mexico never paid up, for the wall. 

Really? He kept so many promises but you couldn't think of one promise he kept 100% off the top of your head? lol 

1) So when did Trump repeal Obamacare? That was one of his top priorities and he was infamous for always claiming his administrations new healthcare plan was about "2 weeks" away from being revealed for  4 years.  We even got the meme "Concept of a plan" from trump for healthcare in the last debate. Trumps been talking about healthcare reform for 8 years now yet doesn't have any more of a plan on that than he did on day 1. 

2) As for the border wall, Trumps administration built about 50 miles of brand new wall that didn't exist before. Almost all of the wall built by Trump were replacements or repairs to existing border walls. US taxpayers paid for every cent. 

3) Trump promised to build the Keystone pipeline. Almost no progress was made on it in Trumps 4 years 

4) Trump promised to ban foreign lobbyist from raising money to influence US elections. He never did anything with that. 

5) Trump said he'd increase economic growth to 4%. He didn't. economic growth under Trump pretty much matched the growth under Obama until the bottom fell out at the end of Trumps term from covid. 

6. Trump promised to help the federal deficit by lowering the non-defense spending federal budget by 1% each year. He Never tried to fulfill this promise. Trumps budgets increased every year. 

 

But yeah...he did appoint some judges I guess. 

 

[I_M4_AU 9,022]

Back on track with Kamala’s flip flopping and lies:

Her border stance in 2018:

 

 

[homersapien 12,267]

2 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

Really? He kept so many promises but you couldn't think of one promise he kept 100% off the top of your head? lol 

1) So when did Trump repeal Obamacare? That was one of his top priorities and he was infamous for always claiming his administrations new healthcare plan was about "2 weeks" away from being revealed for  4 years.  We even got the meme "Concept of a plan" from trump for healthcare in the last debate. Trumps been talking about healthcare reform for 8 years now yet doesn't have any more of a plan on that than he did on day 1. 

2) As for the border wall, Trumps administration built about 50 miles of brand new wall that didn't exist before. Almost all of the wall built by Trump were replacements or repairs to existing border walls. US taxpayers paid for every cent. 

3) Trump promised to build the Keystone pipeline. Almost no progress was made on it in Trumps 4 years 

4) Trump promised to ban foreign lobbyist from raising money to influence US elections. He never did anything with that. 

5) Trump said he'd increase economic growth to 4%. He didn't. economic growth under Trump pretty much matched the growth under Obama until the bottom fell out at the end of Trumps term from covid. 

6. Trump promised to help the federal deficit by lowering the non-defense spending federal budget by 1% each year. He Never tried to fulfill this promise. Trumps budgets increased every year. 

 

But yeah...he did appoint some judges I guess. 

 

Trump just wants to be president, not actually do it. 

 

[I_M4_AU 9,022]

6 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I will remind everyone.......  If we allowed states to decide issues concerning individual rights, there would still be water fountains in Alabama labeled White and Colored. 

Here is another argument I just come across:

 

The Democrats haven’t changed one bit.

[AU9377 6,073]

28 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Here is another argument I just come across:

 

The Democrats haven’t changed one bit.

We all know better.

[AU9377 6,073]

5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Are you living in the 1860’s?  That is when the Democrats, through propaganda, convinced themselves slavery was Godly and the law of the land.  Today’s Democrats, through propaganda, have convinced themselves Biden was a viable candidate and deserved 4 more years up until June 27th.  At the point they convinced themselves he was not a viable candidate, but was ok to run the country until Jan 2025.  Then, convinced themselves that the most unpopular VP in modern politics was the best candidate to run the country and installed her as the Democrats’ candidate for the highest office in the land without a challenger while she tries to distance herself from the fact she was VP for the last 3.5 years.

They say the Dems and Republicans switch stances at some point.  If that is true, they must have switched back.

There was a solar eclipse last year. 

[Gowebb11 9,999]

There was a time when a Presidential race was about who is best for the country.  Now the standard is which candidate is harder to defend.

[AUDub 11,990]

15 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

The trump campaign has distanced itself from P2025 many times. Openly criticizing the plan. How can you then tell America a bald faced lie that it is his plan???

He can’t distance himself from it. It’s literally tailor made for his second term. Something like 200 people that worked in his admin had a hand in its writing. 

[DKW 86 7,930]

6 hours ago, AUDub said:

He can’t distance himself from it. It’s literally tailor made for his second term. Something like 200 people that worked in his admin had a hand in its writing. 

And is campaign has still turned away from it at every turn. Hell he's mocked the damn thing.

You don't need this crap. It is trump after all. Just run straight up and leave the BS in the bin.

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 424]

22 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I will remind everyone.......  If we allowed states to decide issues concerning individual rights, there would still be water fountains in Alabama labeled White and Colored. 

O.k., but no one is proposing states decide individual rights.

The constitution is supposed to stop that sort of thing from happening.  And the constitution handled the "separate but equal" situation.  The problem is that the federal government was really, really slow doing its job enforcing the SCOTUS decision on it.

The problem for abortion is that it's not in the constitution. At all. It's not in there nor is anything related to it in there.  It's not a recognized or enumerated right.  Roe V Wade, regardless of where you fall on the issue, was bad activist law.

You want it in the constitution that women have the right to kill their offspring in the name of preserving their autonomy, you need an amendment. There are two human beings involved in the equation, one of them has to lose, and it's not self-evident as to whose autonomy should be prioritized.  Not from a legal perspective, anyway.

SCOTUS got it wrong the first time and rectified that bad decision with the correct one in a second decision, just like the SCOTUS did with "separate but equal."  There is currently no enumerated "right" to kill an unborn human.

 

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 424]

14 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

There was a time when a Presidential race was about who is best for the country.  Now the standard is which candidate is harder to defend.

Well, we used to try to elect leaders.

Now we elect "politicians."

Even Trump is pandering like any greasy politician this time.  He sounds like Oprah. "YOU won't have to pay taxes, and YOU won't have to pay taxes, and YOU won't have to pay taxes!"

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 424]

15 hours ago, AU9377 said:

We all know better.

I don't know better.

You'll have to explain it to me.

The pro-abortion argument prioritizes the woman's interests over the interests of the human being who is killed by an abortion.  And the justification for doing so sounds just like the justification used in defending property rights.  

Otherwise why is someone else who is responsible for the death of an unborn human prosecuted for murder, but it's perfectly legal for the mother to kill the same human being? 

If I destroy my car—as long as I don't endanger the public in the way I do it—nothing happens to me.  If I destroy your car in the same way I am arrested.  What's the difference?  In both cases I destroyed a car.  The only difference is that I destroyed something that belonged to you and therefore was protected by law not because of any inherent (non-monetary) value, but only because you wanted it intact.  In other words, the object of destruction has no rights of its own, but the law protects the ownership rights of the owner.

How is that example different than abortion in the way the law currently relates to them?

It's not obvious at all to me that there's any difference.

[AU9377 6,073]

39 minutes ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

O.k., but no one is proposing states decide individual rights.

The constitution is supposed to stop that sort of thing from happening.  And the constitution handled the "separate but equal" situation.  The problem is that the federal government was really, really slow doing its job enforcing the SCOTUS decision on it.

The problem for abortion is that it's not in the constitution. At all. It's not in there nor is anything related to it in there.  It's not a recognized or enumerated right.  Roe V Wade, regardless of where you fall on the issue, was bad activist law.

You want it in the constitution that women have the right to kill their offspring in the name of preserving their autonomy, you need an amendment. There are two human beings involved in the equation, one of them has to lose, and it's not self-evident as to whose autonomy should be prioritized.  Not from a legal perspective, anyway.

SCOTUS got it wrong the first time and rectified that bad decision with the correct one in a second decision, just like the SCOTUS did with "separate but equal."  There is currently no enumerated "right" to kill an unborn human.

 

I can respect a well written reply and you have certainly composed one in the above.  That said, the reply is, nonetheless, based on your view of the situation.  Roe v Wade did not balance whose autonomy was to be prioritized and in no way authorized the killing of an unborn human. 

As you know, Roe held that a set of Texas statutes criminalizing abortion in most instances violated a constitutional Right to Privacy which was implicit in the 14th Amendment's liberty guarantee that no person shall be denied life, liberty or property. The court specifically did not find that a pregnancy could be terminated at any time and by any method. Instead, the court used a viability standard and a trimester approach.

Until viability, there aren't two autonomous humans.  A woman doesn't lose control of her body the moment she is impregnated by her partner.  That notion seems more like common sense than it does an activist court's effort to authorize the killing of unborn children.

As to your concern about the existence of a right to privacy in general, the area of abortion is hardly the only area where an inherent right to privacy has been found or noted to protect the individual from the actions of their government. Areas like contraception, sexuality, search and seizure, and the many cases where government has been prevented from infringing on the private rights of individuals still stand.  Finally, we have the 9th Amendment, which reads “The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

Those others retained by the people are mentioned because they do exist, not because they are barred from consideration.

 

[TexasTiger 14,447]

On 9/23/2024 at 9:56 AM, AU9377 said:

The authors of Project 2025 are former members of the Trump administration.... those that didn't abandon ship.  The primary author is the former Trump director of OMB and current policy director for the Republican National Committee. 

Vought said he had personally talked to Trump in recent months and received at least one personal “assignment” from him after he left office. He noted that the former president has “been at our organization, he’s raised money for our organization, he’s blessed it … he’s very supportive of what we do.”

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/15/politics/russ-vought-project-2025-trump-secret-recording-invs/index.html

David trusts trump’s denials over facts. 

[homersapien 12,267]

6 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

O.k., but no one is proposing states decide individual rights.

That's exactly what "Dobbs" did.