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PF on the NYT Article.


DKW 86

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blah blah blah.... really did you just say anything? Because all I just read was 'blah blah blah.'  What was inflamatory?

251995[/snapback]

You're obviously still a child and I was trying to offer some advice on how to play nice with others. You don't want to listen ? Fine. You want to play smart ass with me ? Fine.

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What advice? What was inflamatory? I'm a child? riiiiight I guess all those cuss words that you all have responded to me with "Shut up B*tch" is so adult like.

And I love how every point that I have made has yet to be responded to. Y'all just cuss me out or offer advice on my differing opinion, but you don't claim why it is wrong.

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i'm gonna have to agree with pchamp here, i've noticed many times that if you don't have the same opinion as the majority of the people on this board you get ripped for it instead of debated.

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Look... PC... its not that you get flamed for having an opposing opinion... Its because you take everything way toooo seriously man.

People are going to disagree and try their best to get a rise out of you because it seems pretty easy to at least accomplish that much. If you were to reply calmly and with a good thought.... no one would be here flaming you.

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Lol I feel I am very calm.

And AUWallace thank you for noticing that debate thing as well.

Like AUWallace said, I feel as if I am willing to bring up a calm debate but then people rip me for it. After a few posts of being ripped on, I might throw one out there myself. But then everyone says how childish I am or whatnot. Believe it or not, I am being really calm about all this and I feel as if everyone else is just here to rip on me. It's not going to make me leave though, because I can handle it.

And btw, I am in the cool engineering group :P

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Lol I feel I am very calm.

And AUWallace thank you for noticing that debate thing as well.

Like AUWallace said, I feel as if I am willing to bring up a calm debate but then people rip me for it. After a few posts of being ripped on, I might throw one out there myself. But then everyone says how childish I am or whatnot. Believe it or not, I am being really calm about all this and I feel as if everyone else is just here to rip on me. It's not going to make me leave though, because I can handle it.

And btw, I am in the cool engineering group  :P

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I think what got everyone so sensitive to you was the F-Auburn comments a few days ago. Let everybody chill a bit and all will be well.

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PChamp, are you still a student at Auburn?

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Is this is the same guy who said "F" Auburn?

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I hope you are referring to PChamp and not me.

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Yea, I'm referring to PChamp, the engineer major.

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Careful, there are several engineers that belong to this board. :)

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And btw, I am in the cool engineering group  :P

252047[/snapback]

Be serious, which Engineering are you in?

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***REASONABLE DEBATE ALERT***

http://www.al.com/sports/mobileregister/pf...7550.xml&coll=3

Printed in the interest of good sportsmanship.

Winners, losers in AU's saga

Tuesday, July 25, 2006

In the aftermath of the academic bombshell about Auburn's football program published recently in the New York Times, it's time to sift through the indefatigable spin and try and figure out who are the winners and the losers.

-- Tommy Tuberville: Loser ... Tommy, the question is quite simple: What political office are you running for? I haven't heard this much spin since the last presidential debate between Bush and Kerry. Just calm down already. Quit acting like the victim. The program you currently head has been embarrassed and you are acting like a little kid whose lunch money was stolen. Answering a front-page story in the nation's most influential newspaper about academic shenanigans by condescendingly promoting your graduation rate and your team's winning percentage ranks somewhere between hilarious and pitiful.

-- Ed Richardson: Winner ... Now, Richardson has acted like a CEO is supposed to act. For starters, he was in Hawaii when the story broke. And after rushing back from the islands, he came forward last Friday wearing a Mount Rushmore face and offered up predictable presidential pabulum. He hinted at change and reassured the Auburn Nation. Was it spin? Sure. But Richardson did it with the élan of a college president as opposed to the sincerity of a computer salesman at Best Buy, which we have been seeing from Tuberville.

...

-- Jay Jacobs: Loser ... Once again, in times of crisis, Auburn's athletics director is MIA. Why does Auburn continue this charade of having an athletics director? Wouldn't the $200,000-plus annual salary be spent more wisely by hiring a few more sociology professors? What does this guy do other than count paper clips, bellow "yes sir," to members of the board of trustees and pick up Tuberville's dry cleaning on Tuesday afternoons?

-- Carnell Williams: Loser ... The multi-millionaire Williams may have been the NFL Rookie of the Year and one of the great running backs in Auburn history. But instead of taking these dubious sociology classes perhaps he should have spent a little time in a speech class. Then, it wouldn't be so obvious the best education he received at Auburn was on the football field.

-- New York Times: Winner ... Many Auburn fans have predictably attacked the messenger here. However, give the Times credit for not only allowing reporter Pete Thamel the time and resources but giving this story the appropriate attention. The allegations by some fans that the Times is out to get Auburn is beyond laughable. Besides, Karl Rove and the Bush White House have already beaten AU fans to the punch with this lily livered charge.

...

Paul, Paul, Paul. CTT a Loser? Seems to me the whole story is really that he is the BIG winner here in the Alabama and the SEC. CTT doesnt need you and he isnt going on your #2 rated show when he can go elsewhere and get a real audience. Several things remain true at AU: AU is likely the SEC and SEC West favorite. AU still has the Top APR in the SEC. Auburn still has a 4 game win streak on their arch-rival and is looking to add to that streak. That is the real top story here.

Jay Jacobs a Loser? :headscratch: He pre-empts the NYT and forces the story out on his terms. This story had an impact of only about a week. 7 days later you were leading the show off talking about a racist phone caller. Nuff said. JJ, WTG! :thumbsup:

Actually a relatively tame article...

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Again you guys are such flip floppers. For the last year you have enjoyed his articles because its pro auburn, though you might claim its to keep the Auburn fans fired up, yet you still praise it. Now he has an article and you bash him for it. And again all the "boycott" PF stuff... make up your minds. Some of you need to make up your minds and either not read/listen to it (which I doubt you will do) or be like "well that is his opinion, but I don't agree with it for such n such reason."

Okay, I have no problem with most of your first paragraph. I take Finebaum for what he is. A clown. He dances around and gets the crowds to react. He is NOT a reporter. However he does put on the facade as such.

You guys have arguments that basically contradict his arguments. It's not about Carnell making money in the pros, it's about him presenting himself and representing his education from Auburn University and he makes that clear, yet you focus on his millions of dollars.

Well, yes and no. He states nothing that says that Carnell isn't successful. However, he does imply that Carnell has somehow "hurt" himself by taking these Sociology classes. Carnell took the classes while traveling to try-out to earn a spot on an NFL roster. Therefore, his wage has been indirectly tied to these classes. I think Carnell did the RIGHT thing by taking these classes. Most NFL prospects would've dropped everything at that stage.

and no, Carnell does not yet have his degree. He stated that he lacks a few more hours.

It's not about CTT winning at Auburn and caring for his students and he makes that clear, yet you focus on that. He was saying CTT decided to not accept the fact of what happened, liked Richardson did (hense, why he said Richardson came out a winner), but to focus on winning and APR scores. Yea winning and APR scores are awesome and all that really matters when it comes to the SPORT of football, but have nothing to do with the NYT article.

How else should the FOOTBALL coach respond. The NYT article was laced with athletic improprieties that have since been boiled down to a purely academics issue. The sheer fact that Tommy Tuberville had to respond at ALL is laughable. Finebaum was ripping him for deflecting the question, but all he did was provide sufficient backing to his claim that Auburn is doing things the right way.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Either way Finebaum would've ripped into Tuberville.

I'll take my usual whipping by you boys now for saying I'm a bammer or that I need to be slapped...

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I won't rip into you. I know your tenure here has been a long one, and I respect that. However, you need to learn not to fly off the handle when people get you riled.

I don't see why anyone is calling into question your major or your personal life at all. No one should be attacking PChamps credibility.

I will question your reasoning, because I don't understand it, but I will not insult you just to get a rise either.

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I agree with a lot you had to say AURainman. And I thank you for using rational thought and logic with your reasoning.

About Carnell taking the class - I totally agree, it was awesome that he still took the class while trying out at combines. And for putting him down for doing such a thing would be cruel. Maybe PF was saying Carnell hurt himself by taking this class, I'm not sure. I feel as if he was trying to say he should've taken classes more seriously while he was at Auburn (or maybe blatantly saying - take a speech class).

Someone else had a reply like yours with the FOOTBALL coach thing and how Tubs handled the situation. I won't repeat what I said, but if you can find it in this thread, I made a comment about Juwan Simpson and Mike Shula. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Maybe a football coach shouldn't speak of academic issues, but why talk about discipline then? Or on a different note, maybe the fact that Tubs was spinning the questions and answering something that was not asked (no one asked about APR scores and winning seasons, but thats what Tubs talked about).

Good stuff tho

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I agree with a lot you had to say AURainman. And I thank you for using rational thought and logic with your reasoning.

About Carnell taking the class - I totally agree, it was awesome that he still took the class while trying out at combines. And for putting him down for doing such a thing would be cruel. Maybe PF was saying Carnell hurt himself by taking this class, I'm not sure. I feel as if he was trying to say he should've taken classes more seriously while he was at Auburn (or maybe blatantly saying - take a speech class).

Someone else had a reply like yours with the FOOTBALL coach thing and how Tubs handled the situation. I won't repeat what I said, but if you can find it in this thread, I made a comment about Juwan Simpson and Mike Shula. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Maybe a football coach shouldn't speak of academic issues, but why talk about discipline then? Or on a different note, maybe the fact that Tubs was spinning the questions and answering something that was not asked (no one asked about APR scores and winning seasons, but thats what Tubs talked about).

Good stuff tho

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In case you are wondering PC, about the Simpson/Shula subject, Shula never said anything about the arrest except "It will be handled". Which, I believe, Is the same thing Tubberville has said about this fun situation.

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Exactly. That's why I was wondering why people were giving him a rough time for not saying anything. Tho I will admit that most of the heat has been over his lack of discipline, but still some has been directed for him not saying anything at all.

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I'm really getting sick and tired of hearing about this "crap" especially since it has been going on since the early 1960's or earlier at EVERY INSTITUTION OF HIGHER LEARNING IN THE COUNTRY"! Players cannot always schedule the courses they need due to the run of the mill problems with scheduling as well as their unique time requirements so they are advised to take flexible courses. So What! Lets get off this crap horse and ride something else for awhile. After all, football season is only about 6 weeks away.

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Someone else had a reply like yours with the FOOTBALL coach thing and how Tubs handled the situation. I won't repeat what I said, but if you can find it in this thread, I made a comment about Juwan Simpson and Mike Shula. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Maybe a football coach shouldn't speak of academic issues, but why talk about discipline then? Or on a different note, maybe the fact that Tubs was spinning the questions and answering something that was not asked (no one asked about APR scores and winning seasons, but thats what Tubs talked about).

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My point was this...

What would make Paul Finebaum happy? If Tuberville says, "We've been cheatin' for years! We love passing players who can't read. Doug Langenfeld? Never heard of 'em. I don't know players' names, just their numbers...etc." Then PF would probably be ecstatic. However, he would print the exact same message. Tuberville=Loser.

What Tuberville said was, (paraphrasing) "You dare question our academics? I've made it top priority to focus on getting degrees in these kids hands. I've put in place measures that get results. Here are the results. High APR score. High graduation rate." However, that's not good enough, because he made no mention of Thamel, Gundlach, or Petee.

To use your Juwan Simpson analogy, its the equivalent of Shula saying, "We've got XX% of our players obeying the rules and not making a stink. Don't pigeonhole my whole team based on one act of indiscretion by one player. I think my record shows that kids don't get in trouble, blah, blah, blah." This, of course, is where the analogy breaks, because Tide players have recently had their names on the police-blotter a bit too much under Shula. But thats another argument for another time.

Point being, Tuberville is most assuredly NOT a loser in this situation. Its an academics issue, with football involved. It is not Tuberville's realm. It is not his responsibility. He has made statements on the things that are within his control. Auburn Football has done NOTHING wrong, therefore how can he be held liable?

You aren't going to please Finebaum. Tuberville DEFINITELY will not please Finebaum. (poor little guy got his feelings hurt a few months back.) The fact that PF thinks CTT has lost out at all is laughable.

Auburn didn't cheat. Auburn didn't commit fraud. Auburn simply has a few easy classes. The longer Finebaum can ignore these facts and call Tuberville a loser, the more he sells papers, advertising, etc.

:thumbsdown:

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And btw, I am in the cool engineering group  :P

252047[/snapback]

Be serious, which Engineering are you in?

252148[/snapback]

So, which was it?

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Why does it matter? So you can just ridicule it afterwards? I don't see the point to mentioning it. I don't know why you care to know

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Why does it matter? So you can just ridicule it afterwards? I don't see the point to mentioning it. I don't know why you care to know

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Dude you are a basket case. I'm an engineering grad so why I would ridicule you for being in engineerig? i wasn't even one of the people giving you a hard time in this thread. Oh well, excuse me for asking you a civil question. <_<

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Why does it matter? So you can just ridicule it afterwards? I don't see the point to mentioning it. I don't know why you care to know

252436[/snapback]

Dude you are a basket case. I'm an engineering grad so why I would ridicule you for being in engineerig? i wasn't even one of the people giving you a hard time in this thread. Oh well, excuse me for asking you a civil question. <_<

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Can I say it now?

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Oh well, excuse me for asking you a civil question. <_<

252784[/snapback]

He does not seem to be a very "civil" engineer..............

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I wasn't ripping on you (per say) for asking that question, but with the theme of how everyone else was acting, you can't help but excuse me...

ISE

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I wasn't ripping on you (per say) for asking that question, but with the theme of how everyone else was acting, you can't help but excuse me...

ISE

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Wel let's try again then. Which engineering school are you in?

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You are an engineering grad and you don't know what ISE is ;) I know we are the smallest ones, but geez :P

Industrial & Systems Engineering

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You are an engineering grad and you don't know what ISE is ;) I know we are the smallest ones, but geez :P

Industrial & Systems Engineering

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Well, as recently as a decade or so ago (back when quarters weren't just those shiny things bounced into beer cups), that department was just called "Industrial Engineering", and most departments had only two letters in their abbreviation. So if you said "IE", or actually typed out the full name, my elder fellow engineering alum would not have had to guess whether ISE was some sort of self-deprecating cutesy emoticon (such as "I Suck Eggs" or somesuch).

And I am sorry that you are the "smallest ones", that must be personally humiliating and perhaps the source of this apparent hostility? Since Textile Eng and Forestry Eng (if they still exist) probably have lower enrollment, I figured you weren't just speaking of department size. :poke:

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This article is a joke, It is like PF doesn't even realize that this thing had nothing to do with athletics. He's still trying to milk it for all its worth. Screw him, I'm not going to listen to anyone who completely ignores facts for the sake of story. Also Finebaum continues to support this Thamel guy even though by now I think everyone has figured out that Gundlach pretty much took Thamel for a ride so he could get his dissatisfaction with Petee out. So Thamel was either to dumb to realize what was going on our decided to ignore facts so the Times could make a buck. pitiful

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