Athens voting to repeal alcohol sales.

[otterinbham 0]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070814/ap_on_...hibition_vote_3

Ala. city considers end to alcohol sales

By JAY REEVES, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 51 minutes ago

ATHENS, Ala. - Voters have a chance on Tuesday to return this northern Alabama city to the days of Prohibition.

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A measure to end the sale of alcohol in Athens is up for a citywide vote, a rare instance where voters could overturn a previous vote to allow sales. Business interests are against repeal, but church leaders who helped organize the petition drive that got the measure on the ballot are asking members to pray and fast in support of a ban.

Christians who oppose drinking on moral grounds believe they have a chance to win, however small.

"If it can be voted out anywhere, it will be here because so many Christians are against it," said Teresa Thomas, who works in a Christian book store.

Business leaders argue that ending the sale of beer, wine and liquor would hurt tax revenues and send the message that Athens is backward.

"Economic impact is really the big issue," said Carl Hunt, an organizer of the pro-alcohol sale Citizens for Economic Progress.

The United States went dry in 1920 after the 18th Amendment outlawed the production, transportation and sale of alcohol. Prohibition was repealed in 1933.

Now, less than four years after they first voted to legalize alcohol sales, the nearly 22,000 residents of Athens will decide whether to prohibit alcohol sales within the city, located about 95 miles north of Birmingham. Possession and consumption would remain legal.

Such "wet-to-dry" votes aren't unheard of, but they're rare, said Jim Mosher of the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation, which tracks public policy issues including alcohol laws.

"In Barrow, Alaska, when they legalized alcohol sales, problems went through the roof," Mosher said. "Then, when they banned it again, it improved."

Twenty-six of Alabama's 67 counties, including Limestome, where Athens is located, don't allow alcohol sales. Besides the Athens vote, residents of the southern Alabama town of Thomasville were to cast their ballots Tuesday on whether to legalize alcohol sales.

Regardless of whether Athens winds up wet or dry, a leader of the 138-year-old National Prohibition Party is glad voters have a chance to decide. Such issues rarely make it to the ballot any more, said attorney Howard Lydick, a member of the party's executive committee.

"The beer and wine industry has very good PR," Lydick said. "Those pushing (prohibition) have been pushed aside."

The Rev. Eddie Gooch feels good about the chances of ending alcohol sales in Athens, but he isn't taking any chances.

A leader of the petition drive, Gooch urged members of his United Methodist Church to pray and fast on election day and the two days leading up to it. Church volunteers have sent thousands of letters and made phone calls encouraging people to vote "dry."

Mayor Dan Williams said the city government is making nearly $250,000 in extra sales taxes directly tied to alcohol, and the city's schools get the same amount.

Besides that money, he said, overall tax revenues have grown since alcohol sales were legalized in January 2004 — an increase he attributes partly to alcohol sales.

An upscale Italian restaurant recently moved to Athens from the nearby dry city of Hartselle in order to sell alcohol, and Williams said other restaurants have arrived since it went wet.

"It's a big deal for a small town to get a new restaurant," he said.

Gooch isn't worried about the city losing businesses or tax revenues if alcohol sales are banned. Normal economic growth and God will make up any difference if residents dump the bottle, he said.

"We believe that God will honor and bless our city," Gooch said.

[TitanTiger 22,006]

I would love to see the look on these teetotallers faces if they'd be in attendance at the wedding in Cana.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Yet none of them can show scripture that would suggest Jesus would be against the sale of alcohol.

[saniflush 0]

Yet none of them can show scripture that would suggest Jesus would be against the sale of alcohol.

What Jesus obviously was saying is it is ok to be the catalyst to get folks alcohol, just don't profit from it.

[otterinbham 0]

Oh, no. They're not trying to control everybody's lives.

Heck, alcohol isn't even considered to be a sin by most Christians. In fact, you'll find wine and beer served as most Catholic, Episcopal, Lutheran and Anglican church functions. So, really, what you have here is a highly denominational point of view being forced on everybody else.

[TitanTiger 22,006]

You'd also find quite a few Presbyterians in the mix as well.

Has it ever occurred to these folks that the problems that come from the abuse of alcohol might be happening because instead of teaching our children moderation, we play this stupid game of "all or nothing" with them? We turn something good that God created into a man-made taboo that isn't even Scripturally supported and it becomes the forbidden fruit.

Plus, because of lazy parenting and not telling kids the truth, we implicitly create a false dichotomy in their views on alcohol: if you drink, you must drink to get wasted, otherwise you don't drink. They have no real concept or model of drinking responsibly so they hook up with a few rebellious friends while a minor or they go off to college and cast off all restraint.

[AU alum 2]

WHY are they voting on repealing alcohol sales? Is it just a couple of folks spearheading this, or what?

[AUChizad 0]

I thought this was about Athens, GA and thought Yeah Right!

[saniflush 0]

I thought this was about Athens, GA and thought Yeah Right!

C'mon man. You know better than that.

[CCTAU 3,831]

Good for them. The issue here is not whether or not they become dry, but the fact that the people of this city still have the ability to put things up for a vote. Too many times we have a few force laws on the many. If this is voted in, then that is what the majority of that city wants. That is not always a bad thing. Citizens need to have some control over their communities. That is why "Two Men and a Truck" are still in business.

[otterinbham 0]

Good for them. The issue here is not whether or not they become dry, but the fact that the people of this city still have the ability to put things up for a vote. Too many times we have a few force laws on the many. If this is voted in, then that is what the majority of that city wants. That is not always a bad thing. Citizens need to have some control over their communities. That is why "Two Men and a Truck" are still in business.

It's called minding one's own business. I'm always amazed at how Calvinists can chafe whenever the government wants to slap a $10 tax on cigars or some other manifestation of the nanny state, yet stand back and applaud with the government wants to restrict activity that you disagree with such as buying a six-pack at the local Piggly Wiggly. It's simply not the local government's business to tell its citizens what it can and can't do as long as it is not endangering the local populace.

Actually, let's take things one step further. Let's just assume this is Dearborn, Michigan, we're talking about, a city with a large muslim population. If they vote in Shariah law for the city and start requiring veils on the heads of women, should we allow that too?

[TitanTiger 22,006]

You need to meet more Calvinists. I've yet to meet one that doesn't enjoy a good pint from time to time.

But I get your point. There is such thing as what the Mel Gibson's character said in The Patriot: "Why should I trade one tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 tyrants one mile away?"

[otterinbham 0]

You need to meet more Calvinists. I've yet to meet one that doesn't enjoy a good pint from time to time.

But I get your point. There is such thing as what the Mel Gibson's character said in The Patriot: "Why should I trade one tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 tyrants one mile away?"

I'm talking the original brood of Calvinists. They've softened since they first got together in Zurich. They were a scary bunch back then.

[saniflush 0]

You ever seen some of the women in Dearborn, Michigan? The ones I've seen need AT LEAST a veil!

[otterinbham 0]

You ever seen some of the women in Dearborn, Michigan? The ones I've seen need AT LEAST a veil!

True. They're women in the academic sense of the word.

[CCTAU 3,831]

Good for them. The issue here is not whether or not they become dry, but the fact that the people of this city still have the ability to put things up for a vote. Too many times we have a few force laws on the many. If this is voted in, then that is what the majority of that city wants. That is not always a bad thing. Citizens need to have some control over their communities. That is why "Two Men and a Truck" are still in business.

It's called minding one's own business. I'm always amazed at how Calvinists can chafe whenever the government wants to slap a $10 tax on cigars or some other manifestation of the nanny state, yet stand back and applaud with the government wants to restrict activity that you disagree with such as buying a six-pack at the local Piggly Wiggly. It's simply not the local government's business to tell its citizens what it can and can't do as long as it is not endangering the local populace.

Actually, let's take things one step further. Let's just assume this is Dearborn, Michigan, we're talking about, a city with a large muslim population. If they vote in Shariah law for the city and start requiring veils on the heads of women, should we allow that too?

So if we vote to stone women, then that's OK. Sharia law cannot override federal law. Banning alcohol does not infringe on federal law.

[TitanTiger 22,006]

Good for them. The issue here is not whether or not they become dry, but the fact that the people of this city still have the ability to put things up for a vote. Too many times we have a few force laws on the many. If this is voted in, then that is what the majority of that city wants. That is not always a bad thing. Citizens need to have some control over their communities. That is why "Two Men and a Truck" are still in business.

It's called minding one's own business. I'm always amazed at how Calvinists can chafe whenever the government wants to slap a $10 tax on cigars or some other manifestation of the nanny state, yet stand back and applaud with the government wants to restrict activity that you disagree with such as buying a six-pack at the local Piggly Wiggly. It's simply not the local government's business to tell its citizens what it can and can't do as long as it is not endangering the local populace.

Actually, let's take things one step further. Let's just assume this is Dearborn, Michigan, we're talking about, a city with a large muslim population. If they vote in Shariah law for the city and start requiring veils on the heads of women, should we allow that too?

So if we vote to stone women, then that's OK. Sharia law cannot override federal law. Banning alcohol does not infringe on federal law.

What about requiring veils...since that's the question that was posed and all?

[otterinbham 0]

Good for them. The issue here is not whether or not they become dry, but the fact that the people of this city still have the ability to put things up for a vote. Too many times we have a few force laws on the many. If this is voted in, then that is what the majority of that city wants. That is not always a bad thing. Citizens need to have some control over their communities. That is why "Two Men and a Truck" are still in business.

It's called minding one's own business. I'm always amazed at how Calvinists can chafe whenever the government wants to slap a $10 tax on cigars or some other manifestation of the nanny state, yet stand back and applaud with the government wants to restrict activity that you disagree with such as buying a six-pack at the local Piggly Wiggly. It's simply not the local government's business to tell its citizens what it can and can't do as long as it is not endangering the local populace.

Actually, let's take things one step further. Let's just assume this is Dearborn, Michigan, we're talking about, a city with a large muslim population. If they vote in Shariah law for the city and start requiring veils on the heads of women, should we allow that too?

So if we vote to stone women, then that's OK. Sharia law cannot override federal law. Banning alcohol does not infringe on federal law.

What about requiring veils...since that's the question that was posed and all?

Yep. He has a knack of spinning off into some mondo bizarro tangent, all right. It's a simple question: The majority religious group in the community is offended by a lifestyle practice that does not harm anyone. Do they have a right to ban it?

[AUslug 1]

I saw this posted on another message board and at first I was surprised by this. I hope this gets voted down and it upsets all the busy bodies and nosy people who want to force their views on the rest of the community. I'm glad I live in Madison County where the religious folks have some common sense. Last time I checked alcohol is not being forced on every man, woman and child in Athens nor is it being given away like Katrina money in Tuscaloosa.

[BamaGrad03 0]

What bothers me more than the blocking of alcohol sales...it's Christians like these that make the tons of regular Christians look bad. It's teetotaling Christians who pick and choose what they want out of the Bible...to serve their wish to damn someone else's actions. That bothers me soooooo much.

Not only are they missing the point of what it means to be a Christian, but they are totally putting something in the Bible that isn't there.

I wonder if these protesters spend as much time trying to help feed the poor up there in Athens as they do riding their high horse for the cause? I'll bet instead of helping homeless get on their feet...they go around judging them for being POTENTIAL alcoholics.

I'm bothered by Christians make a point to demonize the most...those vices which they have the least proclivity for. You're 450 lbs and had a whole chicken for breakfast? Oh lets not parade and campaign against gluttony...let's go around and preach against alcohol abuse...since it's easier to judge people who do something that I have no interest in.

[TitanTiger 22,006]

I'm bothered by Christians make a point to demonize the most...those vices which they have the least proclivity for. You're 450 lbs and had a whole chicken for breakfast? Oh lets not parade and campaign against gluttony...let's go around and preach against alcohol abuse...since it's easier to judge people who do something that I have no interest in.

Amen. And it's especially ironic since gluttony is actually listed specifically as a sin in the Bible, while simply partaking of an alcoholic beverage is specifically NOT. But that won't stop a teetotalling Southern Baptist that's 170 lbs overweight from going back for second and third helpings of fried chicken, mashed potatoes and pecan pie at the potluck Sunday night.

[AUslug 1]

Shush BG and Titan, ya'll be making too much sense.

[BamaGrad03 0]

And I really think these people are just doing this BECAUSE they are teetotalers. They aren't going to change the habits of the people who abuse alcohol. They are only going to make it inconvienent for those who aren't hardcore drinkers.

Either way, Madison county is about 10 mins down 72.

Which brings me to a second point...they are only REALLY hurting the economy in that area. They are taking dollars away from establishments that could sell it (ESPECIALLY restaurants)...and that's a pretty low income part of the state that could benefit from the economical boon.

This, in turn, may drive someone to abusing alcohol.

[TitanTiger 22,006]

Oh, but you missed the infallible logic that GOD will bless Athens for taking this stand against not-sin and more than make up for the lost revenue.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Oh, but you missed the infallible logic that GOD will bless Athens for taking this stand against not-sin and more than make up for the lost revenue.

Oh, sorry, I would have posted sooner...but I'm still looking for the word "unfermented" in my Bible.