A little recruiting perspective

[GalensGhost 0]

Follow me back through time to yesteryear. Drift back, back, back to 2004. That was a fun year, wasn't it? But do you remember how it started? Close your eyes and breathe slowly.....

The year started with Alabama allegedly "kicking Auburn's ass" in recruiting. Auburn was on the decline, Shula had the Tide rising. Probation was over. Better get ready because things were going to change now.

Yes, Alabama booted Auburn's ba-hookey in recruiting that year. The Tide finished 15th. Poor old Auburn wasn't in the top 20. Auburn stock was plummeting. It was as good as over for us Tigers.

Okay, wake up. Rush back through the vortex of time to today. What are Alabama fans complaining about? Why, it's a lack of senior talent. Why is Saban going to get a little bit of a free pass (supposedly) this season? Why, because probation gave Auburn the upper hand and UA just doesn't have the same talent. But wait! The 2004 class are seniors now. And Alabama totally kicked Auburn's ass in 2004. Anybody want to seriously debate which team has the better talent? The better seniors? Shouldn't the situation be reversed?

Let's look at the overall picture:

His 2002 class was sixth. Behind Tennessee and UGA from the SEC.

In 2003 Auburn was 11th behind LSU, Florida, Georgia and (drumroll) Mississippi State. Yes, that Mississippi State. The Bulldogs.

In 2004, Alabama just kicked Auburn's ass in recruiting. The Tide finished in the Top 15. Auburn wasn't Top 20. You willing to argue that Bama's got better senior talent today than Auburn does? Also finished behind LSU, Florida, Georgia and Tennessee.

In 2005 Auburn was 13th. Again behind Georgia and Tennessee.

In 2006 Auburn trailed Florida, Georgia and LSU and barely edged Bama in the rankings.

In 2007 Florida, Tennessee and LSU all again finished ahead of Tuberville and the Tigers.

What's Tuberville's record the last four or five years against the teams that "beat" Auburn in recruiting? I think that says a whole lot more than any phantom "rankings". Tuberville is one of the best recruiters in the nation in my book. He finds players that fit both his system and fit Auburn -- and doesn't really pay a whole lot of attention to who is geting this star or that star. It's pretty hard to question his results, I think.

So look up. The sky isn't falling.

[otterinbham 0]

Thanks for that. I have a client who is a fierce Bama fan, and he's gloating about how well Alabama is doing in recruiting. I just said, "Well, that's nice. But we'll still be kicking your ass for the next several years, and then some."

[AUmattyD 0]

Thanks for that. I have a client who is a fierce Bama fan, and he's gloating about how well Alabama is doing in recruiting. I just said, "Well, that's nice. But we'll still be kicking your ass for the next several years, and then some."

Did he crush you with his houndstooth boot when you blashpemed?

[WarTiger 4,092]

Follow me back through time to yesteryear. Drift back, back, back to 2004. That was a fun year, wasn't it? But do you remember how it started? Close your eyes and breathe slowly.....

The year started with Alabama allegedly "kicking Auburn's ass" in recruiting. Auburn was on the decline, Shula had the Tide rising. Probation was over. Better get ready because things were going to change now.

Yes, Alabama booted Auburn's ba-hookey in recruiting that year. The Tide finished 15th. Poor old Auburn wasn't in the top 20. Auburn stock was plummeting. It was as good as over for us Tigers.

Okay, wake up. Rush back through the vortex of time to today. What are Alabama fans complaining about? Why, it's a lack of senior talent. Why is Saban going to get a little bit of a free pass (supposedly) this season? Why, because probation gave Auburn the upper hand and UA just doesn't have the same talent. But wait! The 2004 class are seniors now. And Alabama totally kicked Auburn's ass in 2004. Anybody want to seriously debate which team has the better talent? The better seniors? Shouldn't the situation be reversed?

Let's look at the overall picture:

His 2002 class was sixth. Behind Tennessee and UGA from the SEC.

In 2003 Auburn was 11th behind LSU, Florida, Georgia and (drumroll) Mississippi State. Yes, that Mississippi State. The Bulldogs.

In 2004, Alabama just kicked Auburn's ass in recruiting. The Tide finished in the Top 15. Auburn wasn't Top 20. You willing to argue that Bama's got better senior talent today than Auburn does? Also finished behind LSU, Florida, Georgia and Tennessee.

In 2005 Auburn was 13th. Again behind Georgia and Tennessee.

In 2006 Auburn trailed Florida, Georgia and LSU and barely edged Bama in the rankings.

In 2007 Florida, Tennessee and LSU all again finished ahead of Tuberville and the Tigers.

What's Tuberville's record the last four or five years against the teams that "beat" Auburn in recruiting? I think that says a whole lot more than any phantom "rankings". Tuberville is one of the best recruiters in the nation in my book. He finds players that fit both his system and fit Auburn -- and doesn't really pay a whole lot of attention to who is geting this star or that star. It's pretty hard to question his results, I think.

So look up. The sky isn't falling.

this is why i never follow recruiting. All these "rankings" about how so and so signed a better class is just BS. Nobody really knows what will happen with these kids when they are signed. We obviously are head and shoulders ahead of uat in the talent department. Only the uat fans would/could see it otherwise because its what they do.

Winning the "recruiting battle" means very little, and if uat wants to hang their houndstooth baseball hat (oh, wait those things don't exist, right bg?) on that, then that's perfectly fine.. We'll continue to beat them on the field in november and they can celebrate recruiting nc's.

[Justin5 20]

ok, most of what you guys are saying is true but...

very good players can fly under the radar in recruiting. great ones usually stand out. i'd sure like to see us get at least a couple of great ones each year.

[Argo 8]

What are Alabama fans complaining about? Why, it's a lack of senior talent. Why is Saban going to get a little bit of a free pass (supposedly) this season? Why, because probation gave Auburn the upper hand and UA just doesn't have the same talent

Talent isn't the big problem. Switching from a 3-3-5 pass defense to a 4-3/3-4 blitz defense is the problem. Had Shula not been fired and Joe Kines was still the DC, defense wouldn't be a problem this year. Plenty of talent on defense to fit his scheme.

Offense has talent as well. Offense had talent under Shula, and put up good numbers. The offense just couldn't do it's job and get into the endzone.

For the most part I do agree with your assessment on the recruiting front. Although more times than not, 4-5 star recruits do produce.

[GalensGhost 0]

What are Alabama fans complaining about? Why, it's a lack of senior talent. Why is Saban going to get a little bit of a free pass (supposedly) this season? Why, because probation gave Auburn the upper hand and UA just doesn't have the same talent

Talent isn't the big problem. Switching from a 3-3-5 pass defense to a 4-3/3-4 blitz defense is the problem. Had Shula not been fired and Joe Kines was still the DC, defense wouldn't be a problem this year. Plenty of talent on defense to fit his scheme.

Why even the biggest Bama homer on planet earth doesn't agree with you in the least.

Here's an excerpt from Cecil Hurt's column in the Tuscaloosa News:

Over the course of the last few days, based not only on limited practice observation but also on scrimmage reviews and statistics and, most importantly, the comments of coach Nick Saban, there seems to be parallels between this team and other Tide teams of the past. The fact is, it appears that this team is going to have to rely heavily on offensive production to win games. That’s because the defensive talent, relative to the other teams in the league, may be at a low level that hasn’t been seen since 1969.

(http://www.tidesports.com/article/20070815/NEWS/70814035/1067/NEWS)

Wow. Since Alabama so thoroughly kicked Auburn's ass in recruiting, particularly in-state, the last few years -- remember how Shula was the absolute master at identifying talent and getting it in early, or has that slipped your mind as easily as it rolled off your koolaid-stained tongues? -- well, I guess Auburn's defensive talent must be at the lowest ebb ever. Say what? Auburn's defensive talent is considered among the league's best? But what about that ass kicking in the recruiting rankings? Oh yeah. Rivals. Bobo-honking media. I get it.

[Argo 8]

What are Alabama fans complaining about? Why, it's a lack of senior talent. Why is Saban going to get a little bit of a free pass (supposedly) this season? Why, because probation gave Auburn the upper hand and UA just doesn't have the same talent

Talent isn't the big problem. Switching from a 3-3-5 pass defense to a 4-3/3-4 blitz defense is the problem. Had Shula not been fired and Joe Kines was still the DC, defense wouldn't be a problem this year. Plenty of talent on defense to fit his scheme.

Why even the biggest Bama homer on planet earth doesn't agree with you in the least.

Here's an excerpt from Cecil Hurt's column in the Tuscaloosa News:

Over the course of the last few days, based not only on limited practice observation but also on scrimmage reviews and statistics and, most importantly, the comments of coach Nick Saban, there seems to be parallels between this team and other Tide teams of the past. The fact is, it appears that this team is going to have to rely heavily on offensive production to win games. That’s because the defensive talent, relative to the other teams in the league, may be at a low level that hasn’t been seen since 1969.

(http://www.tidesports.com/article/20070815/NEWS/70814035/1067/NEWS)

Wow. Since Alabama so thoroughly kicked Auburn's ass in recruiting, particularly in-state, the last few years -- remember how Shula was the absolute master at identifying talent and getting it in early, or has that slipped your mind as easily as it rolled off your koolaid-stained tongues? -- well, I guess Auburn's defensive talent must be at the lowest ebb ever. Say what? Auburn's defensive talent is considered among the league's best? But what about that ass kicking in the recruiting rankings? Oh yeah. Rivals. Bobo-honking media. I get it.

I didn't say they were the best talent in the SEC, or even the state. I said that IF Kines was the defensive coordinator this season, the defense would be in better shape to execute than they are now.....because Shula and the staff recruited towards Kines' defense. Don't believe me? Check out the number of defensive backs we've taken in the last four years compared to the linebackers.

As for the Cecil article....I have my thoughts as to why that piece was published, and I'll leave it at that. So you know, I don't think it is to lull Auburn into thinking Bama is going to roll over.

[DyeEraTiger 0]

Follow me back through time to yesteryear. Drift back, back, back to 2004. That was a fun year, wasn't it? But do you remember how it started? Close your eyes and breathe slowly.....

The year started with Alabama allegedly "kicking Auburn's ass" in recruiting. Auburn was on the decline, Shula had the Tide rising. Probation was over. Better get ready because things were going to change now.

Yes, Alabama booted Auburn's ba-hookey in recruiting that year. The Tide finished 15th. Poor old Auburn wasn't in the top 20. Auburn stock was plummeting. It was as good as over for us Tigers.

Okay, wake up. Rush back through the vortex of time to today. What are Alabama fans complaining about? Why, it's a lack of senior talent. Why is Saban going to get a little bit of a free pass (supposedly) this season? Why, because probation gave Auburn the upper hand and UA just doesn't have the same talent. But wait! The 2004 class are seniors now. And Alabama totally kicked Auburn's ass in 2004. Anybody want to seriously debate which team has the better talent? The better seniors? Shouldn't the situation be reversed?

Let's look at the overall picture:

His 2002 class was sixth. Behind Tennessee and UGA from the SEC.

In 2003 Auburn was 11th behind LSU, Florida, Georgia and (drumroll) Mississippi State. Yes, that Mississippi State. The Bulldogs.

In 2004, Alabama just kicked Auburn's ass in recruiting. The Tide finished in the Top 15. Auburn wasn't Top 20. You willing to argue that Bama's got better senior talent today than Auburn does? Also finished behind LSU, Florida, Georgia and Tennessee.

In 2005 Auburn was 13th. Again behind Georgia and Tennessee.

In 2006 Auburn trailed Florida, Georgia and LSU and barely edged Bama in the rankings.

In 2007 Florida, Tennessee and LSU all again finished ahead of Tuberville and the Tigers.

What's Tuberville's record the last four or five years against the teams that "beat" Auburn in recruiting? I think that says a whole lot more than any phantom "rankings". Tuberville is one of the best recruiters in the nation in my book. He finds players that fit both his system and fit Auburn -- and doesn't really pay a whole lot of attention to who is geting this star or that star. It's pretty hard to question his results, I think.

So look up. The sky isn't falling.

Good analysis Ghost. One of the best at putting things into perspective. Even though you and I disagree about the importance of in state recruiting, the facts as you've presented are plain to see. And, I might add, I feel the same about CTT's and staffs recruiting. They get players that fit and if they stay with the program--they often turn out to be great college players. Good post.

[kingfish 76]

Here's an excerpt from Cecil Hurt's column in the Tuscaloosa News:

Over the course of the last few days, based not only on limited practice observation but also on scrimmage reviews and statistics and, most importantly, the comments of coach Nick Saban, there seems to be parallels between this team and other Tide teams of the past. The fact is, it appears that this team is going to have to rely heavily on offensive production to win games. That’s because the defensive talent, relative to the other teams in the league, may be at a low level that hasn’t been seen since 1969.

Saban is smart enough to know that if he should have a good defense this year it will be attributed to his superior coaching if the players he has are not that talented. If on the other hand he says his guys are really talented he can only come out a loser if they don't achieve. Down playing the inherited talent pool is the smartest way for a new coach to begin for self preservation purposes.

[Justin5 20]

Here's an excerpt from Cecil Hurt's column in the Tuscaloosa News:

Over the course of the last few days, based not only on limited practice observation but also on scrimmage reviews and statistics and, most importantly, the comments of coach Nick Saban, there seems to be parallels between this team and other Tide teams of the past. The fact is, it appears that this team is going to have to rely heavily on offensive production to win games. That’s because the defensive talent, relative to the other teams in the league, may be at a low level that hasn’t been seen since 1969.

Saban is smart enough to know that if he should have a good defense this year it will be attributed to his superior coaching if the players he has are not that talented. If on the other hand he says his guys are really talented he can only come out a loser if they don't achieve. Down playing the inherited talent pool is the smartest way for a new coach to begin for self preservation purposes.

That may be true, but by doing so you are throwing your current players under the bus.

[GalensGhost 0]

As for the Cecil article....I have my thoughts as to why that piece was published, and I'll leave it at that. So you know, I don't think it is to lull Auburn into thinking Bama is going to roll over.

I'll say this. If that wasn't Cecil's honest, objective analysis based on the best information he had at the moment; if that article was intended as a motivational ploy, a tool with which to prop up Saban's alleged genius later in the season or an attempt to lull the opposition into dismissing the Tide then Cecil is a fool, an even bigger hack than I imagined and a tool of the highest order. He should be fired.

[Argo 8]

More from the Bama Bobo-honking rivals.com

Enrolled Team rankings top 25

1. Florida

Signing Day Rank: 1

Biggest Loss: None The No. 1 class in the country remains intact - all of the players UF signed appear to be on campus. Florida's class held on to the top spot on signing day, and does so once again in the enrolled rankings. It was a very solid group that included four five-star players and 16 four-star prospects.

2. USC

Signing Day Rank: 2

Biggest Loss: None The Trojans' amazing class still sparkles in the enrolled rankings. There's word that five-star running back Joe McKnight is already tearing it up in fall camp, and there could be several other true freshmen that play this year for the Trojans. USC just missed out on winning another recruiting national title, but a close second place finish is still an outstanding showing.

3. LSU

Signing Day Rank: 4

Biggest Loss: DeAngelo Benton The Tigers did a good job of bringing in almost everybody they signed in the 2007 class. In the past there were always a few questions marks - even during the start of fall camp. That hasn't been the case this season. The Tigers only lost four-star receiver DeAngelo Benton, who is heading to Hargrave Military Academy. Benton would have been a nice addition, but the Tigers are deep at receiver. Plus, by going the prep school route, Benton should be back with the Tigers in a year.

4. Tennessee

Signing Day Rank: 3

Biggest Loss: Rolando Melancon The Vols lost five players to qualifying issues, including a trio of quality players along the defensive line. Rufus Williams, Rae Sykes and Rolando Melancon are headed to junior colleges, but don't be surprised if they're back with the Vols in a couple of years. Freshmen stars Eric Berry, Gerald Jones and Denarius Moore have already been impressive in practices. Ben Martin was on his way to making an impact, too, but he's out for about a month with a knee injury.

5. Texas

Signing Day Rank: 5

Biggest Loss: Andre Jones Under Mack Brown, the Longhorns have always done a good job signing kids that don't have qualifying issues. When you can pick and choose who you want in the Lone Star State, you don't have to take risks on non-qualifiers. The only loss Texas suffered was four-star defensive tackle Andre Jones. Jones was involved in an off-the-field incident and will not be playing for Texas.

6. South Carolina

Signing Day Rank: 6

Biggest Loss: Akeem Auguste There's no question that last year's South Carolina class was the best that the Gamecocks had signed, but the shine on the class was tarnished when seven players did not make it to fall camp. The good news is that almost all of the Gamecocks' high-profile stars made it in without issues, except for four-star cornerback Akeem Auguste. South Carolina lost four defensive backs - including three safeties - so the depth in the defensive backfield could be an issue. The good news is that almost all of the unenrolled prospects went to Fork Union and will return after prep school.

7. Notre Dame

Signing Day Rank: 8

Biggest Loss: None It's all hands on deck for the Irish. Notre Dame has stricter qualifying guidelines than many schools, so it's a surprise when somebody doesn't make grades. There were no surprises in this year's class. The No. 8 team on signing day kept all 18 members of its 2007 group.

8. Georgia

Signing Day Rank: 9

Biggest Loss: None The Dawgs' class looks like it's intact. That's a good sign for Georgia, which in the past has had to place a few players in junior colleges and prep schools. Mark Richt has been more selective when offering scholarships to potential non-qualifiers. The effort paid off with a solid group of 23 prospects that all made it to campus. Like Texas, Georgia has a deep talent pool in its back yard. The Bulldogs can be selective about who and who doesn't get an offer.

9. Michigan

Signing Day Rank: 12

Biggest Loss: None The Wolverines signed 20 players in February and all made it to campus. The Wolverines have never had issues with kids making grades, so it's no surprise to see their class of two five-stars, five four-stars and 12 three-stars all make it. Five-star cornerback Donovan Warren's decision to pick Michigan is already paying off for the Maize and Blue. Warren has impressed quite a bit in fall camp. He's battling Johnny Sears and Brandon Harrison for playing time at the cornerback spot. Also, landing junior college linebacker Austin Panter has given Michigan depth at that spot. Panter might redshirt because Michigan has several more experienced players on the roster.

10. Auburn

Signing Day Rank: 7

Biggest Loss: Enrique Davis The Tigers definitely took a hit. Auburn lost 10 players, including four-star running back Enrique Davis, four-star linebacker Carlton Johnson, four-star linebacker Eltoro Freeman and four-star athlete Johnnie Lee Dixon. The Tigers are still deep with talent, so the misses here don't hurt as bad as they might at other schools. Auburn also does a good job of getting many of their junior college and prep-school placements back, so most of the group should return to The Plains down the road. While running back isn't a big position of need, not getting one of the bell cows like Davis on campus right away has to sting some.

11. Oklahoma

Signing Day Rank: 14

Biggest Loss: Londell Taylor The Sooners had all of their signees make it academically. It's becoming more of a trend for Bob Stoops' team to not only sign high quality players, but to land guys they know will make it on to campus. The Sooners have plenty of depth all over the field, so don't expect a ton of playing time for the true freshmen. Linebacker Austin Box, receivers Ryan Broyles and Tyler Stradford and quarterback Keith Nichol could get some playing time. Coaches have also been raving about offensive lineman Donald Stephenson, but he'll redshirt. The only loss was two-star receiver Londell Taylor, who decided to play professional baseball.

12. Nebraska

Signing Day Rank: 13

Biggest Loss: Joseph Townsend The Huskers kept most of their talent. Only two players – Demetrious Davis and Joseph Townsend – are not on campus now. Both are interior defensive linemen, so it would have been nice to get their big bodies in the rotation to see if they could make an immediate impact. Townsend is the more highly regarded prospect - he was a four-star player coming out of junior college. The good news for him is that he does plan to enroll in January. Davis is at Garden City C.C., and he plans to return to Nebraska after he finishes two years for the Broncbusters.

13. Oregon

Signing Day Rank: 11

Biggest Loss: Myles Wade The Ducks bounced back from a subpar 2006 class to almost crack the top 10. Overall, it appears that three players won't make it to campus, including two big interior linemen. Four-star defensive tackles Simi Fili and Myles Wade were big-time recruiting victories for the Ducks, but neither was able to qualify academically. Depth at defensive tackle isn't a major question mark, but Wade was the top in-state prospect last year. It never looks good when the top in-state player in your class doesn't make it. Fili was also a big win over several national programs. Overall, the meat of this class is still there, and it should give the Ducks plenty of weapons to compete with in the Pac-10.

14. Ohio State

Signing Day Rank: 15

Biggest Loss: None The Buckeyes don't have any academic casualties. The very talented - but relatively small - class of 15 made it in without any hitches. Don't be surprised if quite a few of the younger players see some action early this season. Coaches are buzzing about running back Brandon Saine, defensive tackle Cameron Heyward and linebacker Brian Rolle. Also, don't be shocked if Devon Torrence and Eugene Clifford get some early action, too. Credit Jim Tressel. Pound for pound, this small class will have about as many true freshman impact players as any other class in the nation.

15. Alabama

Signing Day Rank: 10

Biggest Loss: Kerry Murphy The Tide's first effort under Nick Saban only produced three non-qualifiers. The biggest loss was Hoover, Ala., standout Kerry Murphy, who is heading to Hargrave Military Academy. The four-star defensive tackle was one of the most athletically gifted big men in the nation in the 2007 class. Four-star safety Michael Ricks and three-star running back Jamar Taylor are also not in Tuscaloosa. Taylor has moved on to South Florida. All in all, considering the circumstances in which Saban arrived, to only lose three signees is impressive.

16. Georgia Tech

Signing Day Rank: 18

Biggest Loss: None The Jackets got all of their recruits into school, and the class of 20 prospects was one of the best that has headed to Atlanta in a while. Star recruits like Derrick Morgan, Morgan Burnett, Jonathan Dwyer, Nick Claytor, D.J. Donley and quarterback Josh Nesbitt all have to figure in the plans for the Jackets' future success. Running back Roddy Jones, a three-star prospect, has also looked good in fall camp. Don't be surprised if cornerback Mario Butler doesn't redshirt. He's been that good in camp.

17. Miami

Signing Day Rank: 19

Biggest Loss: None The Hurricanes have made plenty of noise this recruiting season by already racking up a list of impressive commitments. What's also impressive is that all of the 2007 class members are enrolled. The group is loaded with plenty of speed and skill. One name that has been getting good reviews from fall camp is four-star athlete Demarcus VanDyke at cornerback. One of his teammates told CaneSport.com that "he has really stepped up and is playing real well for a freshman."

18. Illinois

Signing Day Rank: 20

Biggest Loss: Steve Matas The Illini kept almost its entire class intact, with only three-star defensive end Steve Matas and two-star running back Deries Hodge not making it into school. Matas was always known to be a qualifying question mark, and Hodge is heading to Milford Academy. Neither are significant losses at this point. A lot of the attention has been focused on five-star receiver Arrelious Benn and his injury status, but other freshman have also impressed in camp. Martez Wilson, also a five-star prospect, has showed some flashes of excellence on defense. Four-star offensive lineman Craig Wilson is also looking good in camp.

19. California

Signing Day Rank: 22

Biggest Loss: None The Bears didn't have any issues with players qualifying - all 26 of the players made it into school. Cal fans were pumped when the team signed Jahvid Best in last year's class, and it looks like he's well on his way to proving he why he was one of the nation's top backs in last year's group. Used as a gunner on punt coverage, Best's speed allows him to get down the field quickly. During the first punt of the scrimmage Tuesday afternoon, Best flew down the sideline before clipping fellow speedster Jeremy Ross seconds after Ross caught the ball.

20. Clemson

Signing Day Rank: 16

Biggest Loss: Markish Jones The Tigers only lost two players to academics this fall – four-star receiver Markish Jones is heading to Hutchinson C.C. in Kansas and three-star linebacker Stanley Hunter is also heading to the junior college ranks. Jones would have been a nice addition to the Tigers offense, but they do have some solid talent at the receiver spot. One of the biggest headlines at Clemson's camp has been the play of heralded quarterback recruit Willy Korn. He continues to close ground on starter Cullen Harper.

21. Penn State

Signing Day Rank: 24

Biggest Loss: None The Nittany Lions' class didn't suffer an academic casualty. There have been some surprises at camp, and under-the-radar players have made big impressions. At running back, two-star prospect Stephfon Green has made a big splash. Some are already calling him the most explosive back on Penn State's roster. Four-star defensive end Devon Still and three-star defensive tackle Chimaeze Okoli have also looked good.

22. Virginia

Signing Day Rank: 25

Biggest Loss: None Virginia also didn't suffer any setbacks academically, and the class of 24 is on campus. Quarterback Peter Lalich has already moved up to the No. 2 spot on the depth chart. Many believe he is the most polished player on the roster. Virginia did lose Olu Hall, and that has opened the door for young players like linebacker Jared Detrick to get some action. Freshman cornerbacks Ras-I Dowling and Dominique Joseph also continue to impress the coaches. They could be in the mix for early playing time.

23t. Pittsburgh

Signing Day Rank: 26

Biggest Loss: Kyle Hubbard The Panthers only lost one player – three-star tight end Kyle Hubbard. He decided instead to focus only on basketball in college and won't be on the gridiron. Maurice Williams has been one of the most impressive true freshmen on campus. The 6-foot, 185-pound receiver has been making a ton of highlight reel type catches, and he's also been very consistent. Expect LeSean McCoy, Dom DeCicco and Jabaal Sheard to get some action as freshmen.

23t. North Carolina

Signing Day Rank: 17

Biggest Loss: Dwight Jones North Carolina only had two losses to academics, but one of them was a monster. Five-star receiver Dwight Jones could have helped provide an immediate spark to a UNC offense that really struggled last fall. Jones is a home-run hitter that could have been a true weapon right out of the box. Instead, he's heading to Hargrave. Three-star linebacker Albert Craddock also didn't make it and is heading to the junior college ranks. The loss of Jones definitely stings, and takes a little pop out of the star power in this class. However, guys like Marvin Austin, Greg Little and Mike Paulus definitely will make an impact in Chapel Hill.

25. Florida State

Signing Day Rank: 21

Biggest Loss: Zach Hillery The Seminoles only lost two players – three-star defensive end Brian Coulter and four-star offensive guard Zach Hillery. Coulter is expected to enroll in January. Hillery is waiting for the go-ahead from the NCAA Clearinghouse, and the Seminoles expect him to be cleared eventually. FSU has a ton of depth, so many of their high-profile kids will either redshirt or be playing backup roles. One prospect that has made a big splash in camp is Rodney Hudson out of Mobile, Ala. He's been working with the first team at left guard.

Wow, they really honked Bama's bobo.

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

Talent isn't the big problem. Switching from a 3-3-5 pass defense to a 4-3/3-4 blitz defense is the problem. Had Shula not been fired and Joe Kines was still the DC, defense wouldn't be a problem this year. Plenty of talent on defense to fit his scheme.

The best coaches use the talent they have and scheme around it.

That's what I've always heard anyway. You know, beatin' your'ns with his'ns and his'ns with your'ns and all that jazz.

[BamaFanOnBeach 4]

If you really look at close, an "average" SEC class in recent years has been considered a top recruiting class nationally -

Since 2004 Bama Rivals class rank averages at 13.5, which doesn't seem bad at all until you realize it is still behind florida, georgia, lsu, tennessee, and auburn - in that order.

Recruiting is also only the first step - Player development, player conditioning, and recruiting players that are needed are FAR more important than "incoming" recruiting ratings. Though Shula may not have been a "bad" recruiter according to Rivals rankings, he failed miserably in player conditioning, was not consistent in player development, and it could be argued he didn't recruit what he needed very well.

IMO, Bama defense would still have holes in it with Kines schemes too - Bama was thin at LB last year and will be even this year, yet Bama is deep with DB's - Bama is also thin on the D-Line regardless of the scheme.

That being said, I think Auburn has some holes as well - WR being the biggest. Though I think Bama and Auburn have recruited fairly evenly the last 4 years, I think Auburn is ahead in conditioning and player development - but I do expect Saban to narrow that gap each year for the next 2-3 yrs until it is fairly even....

[GalensGhost 0]

If you really look at close, an "average" SEC class in recent years has been considered a top recruiting class nationally -

Since 2004 Bama Rivals class rank averages at 13.5, which doesn't seem bad at all until you realize it is still behind florida, georgia, lsu, tennessee, and auburn - in that order.

Recruiting is also only the first step - Player development, player conditioning, and recruiting players that are needed are FAR more important than "incoming" recruiting ratings. Though Shula may not have been a "bad" recruiter according to Rivals rankings, he failed miserably in player conditioning, was not consistent in player development, and it could be argued he didn't recruit what he needed very well.

IMO, Bama defense would still have holes in it with Kines schemes too - Bama was thin at LB last year and will be even this year, yet Bama is deep with DB's - Bama is also thin on the D-Line regardless of the scheme.

That being said, I think Auburn has some holes as well - WR being the biggest. Though I think Bama and Auburn have recruited fairly evenly the last 4 years, I think Auburn is ahead in conditioning and player development - but I do expect Saban to narrow that gap each year for the next 2-3 yrs until it is fairly even....

If Saban goes 0-3 against AU while he's narrowing? He won't be around to take a shot at losing #4.

[AUman43 5]

IF we lose the Bammer game this year, it WILL almost certainly be the result of being outcoached. We sure have a backlog of talent unseen in recent years and the incoming frosh class is impressive as well. It will be interesting since the pressure is on Tubs and his staff for the first time in recent years BECAUSE of the talent level and the fact that Satan will get a "pass." As for recruiting, nobody can argue with with Galensghost here. However, I still maintain that despite all the statistics, one MUST be able to at least break even IN-STATE and maintain those close relationships with the high school coaches as well to be competetive with Bammer. All athletic programs experience ebbs and flows, and coaching changes, and that's the reason why the relationships must be nourished constantly. WDE!

[atltigerfan 0]

It will be interesting since the pressure is on Tubs and his staff for the first time in recent years BECAUSE of the talent level and the fact that Satan will get a "pass."

Got to disagree here. I'd say the pressure is squarely on the crapstone in the iron bowl with a 5 game losing streak alive. saban will get a free pass for an L but the pressure is still on them.

[eagle76 1]

IF we lose the Bammer game this year, it WILL almost certainly be the result of being outcoached.

Got to disaagree with this also. There are far too many variables involved in a football game that is 3 months away and neither team has even played its first game. Talent and coaching are just a very few of the variables involved now and 3 months from now. Give CTT some credit. He will field the best team he can on that day. And don't give coach tricky-slicky-nicky too much credit. Don't buy into the turd nation hype.

[aubiescottie 1]

more perspective:

I think one reason we are getting "beat" this year in recruiting is just our depth chart. As we can ALL agree, Auburn is a lot deeper at every position except WR. Rercruits know the depth charts and if 2 schools are relatively even on things like coaching, location, facilities, future outlook, [which I believe Auburn and Alabama are] most prospects are going to go where they will expect to play sooner.

In all honesty, this upcoming recruiting class is a hole-filler for us. Our power class was last year, and they are going to get us through 2008,09,10. We are going to end up signing 3 or 4 top notch prospects, a bunch of guys from last year's class, and the rest will be guys that our coach's believe other teams have over looked. If you notice, everyone on our list is either A. big or B. fast like 4.4 or 4.5 fast. Guys the coaches believe they can mold into top players. Do you know why? Because you can't teach size and you can't teach speed. Because we have the TIME to develop guys. Because we have that luxury. Saban doesn't. He needs guys that can come in and play right away, and recruits know that, and also know that we don't.

[sogaaufan 27]

One thing no one seems to be taking into consideration is the fact that we have put a TON of kids in prep school and junior college over the last couple of years. These won't show up on the list until they get their grade situation settled. However, I can think of two (Raven Gray and Enrique Davis) who should show up this year. I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting, but if we pick up some of the players we sign and placed we will be fine.

[AUman43 5]

A full roster certainly doesn't seem to have any impact on Georgia's recruiting year after year or USC or other schools. Why Auburn then? However, I do agree that CTT seems to go after a "different" type of player and one can't argue with the fact that he has been successful with that approach. I still maintain that Auburn has to "break even" in-state with recruiting just as Coach Dye said. The core of your team should be with home state boys because the game means more to them, particularly the rivalries. If you lose your home base, you are in trouble.

[AUmattyD 0]

A full roster certainly doesn't seem to have any impact on Georgia's recruiting year after year or USC or other schools. Why Auburn then? However, I do agree that CTT seems to go after a "different" type of player and one can't argue with the fact that he has been successful with that approach. I still maintain that Auburn has to "break even" in-state with recruiting just as Coach Dye said. The core of your team should be with home state boys because the game means more to them, particularly the rivalries. If you lose your home base, you are in trouble.

I don't think you'll find an AU fan who wouldn't be THRILLED to "break even" with uat for in-state kids every year. The sad fact of the matter is that this will NEVER happen consistently. Like it or not, uat has a bigger fan base in the state, thus statistics say that more kids are going to grow up uat fans (since their moms and dads are uat fans). I think this phenomena will slowly began to erode as the generations who grew up worshipping the Bahr start to die out, but that will take years and years.

For now, I'd expect a 70/30 or 60/40 split in uat's favor with us having more success in Georgia and Florida than uat does.

[DyeEraTiger 0]

IF we lose the Bammer game this year, it WILL almost certainly be the result of being outcoached. We sure have a backlog of talent unseen in recent years and the incoming frosh class is impressive as well. It will be interesting since the pressure is on Tubs and his staff for the first time in recent years BECAUSE of the talent level and the fact that Satan will get a "pass." As for recruiting, nobody can argue with with Galensghost here. However, I still maintain that despite all the statistics, one MUST be able to at least break even IN-STATE and maintain those close relationships with the high school coaches as well to be competetive with Bammer. All athletic programs experience ebbs and flows, and coaching changes, and that's the reason why the relationships must be nourished constantly. WDE!

IMHO, Saban could out coach CTT BUT so far, CTT has the upper hand. Sure, we could lose that particular game. But I have a tendancy to worry more about us being ready for the likes of Arkansas or others that we are supposed to beat handily. That's my biggest area of improvement for this coaching staff, is having them ready for the so called "lesser" games. We let too many sneak up on us. Hard to have them up for every game week in and out.