muslim true/false

[channonc 466]

Muslim true/false

What you think you know about them is likely wrong -- and that's dangerous.

By John L. Esposito and Dalia Mogahed

April 2, 2008

Winning hearts and minds -- the Bush administration, foreign policy wonks, even the U.S. military agree that this is the key to any victory over global terrorism. Yet our public diplomacy program has made little progress on improving America's image. Few seem to recognize that American ignorance of Islam and Muslims has been the fatal flaw.

How much do Americans know about the views and beliefs of Muslims around the world? According to polls, not much. Perhaps not surprising, the majority of Americans (66%) admit to having at least some prejudice against Muslims; one in five say they have "a great deal" of prejudice. Almost half do not believe American Muslims are "loyal" to this country, and one in four do not want a Muslim as a neighbor.

Why should such anti-Muslim bias concern us? First, it undermines the war on terrorism: Situations are misdiagnosed, root causes are misidentified and bad prescriptions do more harm than good. Second, it makes our public diplomacy sound like double-talk. U.S. diplomats are trying to convince Muslims around the world that the United States respects them and that the war on terrorism is not out to destroy Islam. Their task is made infinitely more difficult by the frequent airing of anti-Muslim sentiment on right-wing call-in radio, which is then heard around the world on the Internet.

Finally, public ignorance weakens our democracy at election time. Instead of a well-informed citizenry choosing our representatives, we are rendered vulnerable to manipulative fear tactics. We need look no further than the political attacks on Barack Obama. Any implied connection to Islam -- attending a Muslim school in Indonesia, the middle name Hussein -- is wielded to suggest that he is unfit for the presidency and used as fuel for baseless rumors.

Anti-Muslim sentiment fuels misinformation, and is fueled by it -- misinformation that is squarely contradicted by evidence.

Starting in 2001, the research firm Gallup embarked on the largest, most comprehensive survey of its kind, spending more than six years polling a population that represented more than 90% of the world's 1.3 billion Muslims. The results showed plainly that much of the conventional wisdom about Muslims -- views touted by U.S. policymakers and pundits and accepted by voters -- is simply false.

For instance, Gallup found that 72% of Americans disagreed with this statement: "The majority of those living in Muslim countries thought men and women should have equal rights." In fact, majorities in even some of the most conservative Muslim societies directly refute this assessment: 73% of Saudis, 89% of Iranians and 94% of Indonesians say that men and women should have equal legal rights. Majorities of Muslim men and women in dozens of countries around the world also believe that a woman should have the right to work outside the home at any job for which she is qualified (88% in Indonesia, 72% in Egypt and even 78% in Saudi Arabia), and to vote without interference from family members (87% in Indonesia, 91% in Egypt, 98% in Lebanon).

What about Muslim sympathy for terrorism? Many charge that Islam encourages violence more than other faiths, but studies show that Muslims around the world are at least as likely as Americans to condemn attacks on civilians. Polls show that 6% of the American public thinks attacks in which civilians are targets are "completely justified." In Saudi Arabia, this figure is 4%. In Lebanon and Iran, it's 2%.

Moreover, it's politics, not piety, that drives the small minority -- just 7% -- of Muslims to anti-Americanism at the level of condoning the attacks of 9/11. Looking across majority-Muslim countries, Gallup found no statistical difference in self-reported religiosity between those who sympathized with the attackers and those who did not. When respondents in select countries were asked in an open-ended question to explain their views of 9/11, those who condemned it cited humanitarian as well as religious reasons. For example, 20% of Kuwaitis who called the attacks "completely unjustified" explained this position by saying that terrorism was against the teachings of Islam. A respondent in Indonesia went so far as to quote a direct verse from the Koran prohibiting killing innocents. On the other hand, not a single respondent who condoned the attacks used the Koran as justification. Instead, they relied on political rationalizations, calling the U.S. an imperialist power or accusing it of wanting to control the world.

If most Muslims truly reject terrorism, why does it continue to flourish in Muslim lands? What these results indicate is that terrorism is much like other violent crime. Violent crimes occur throughout U.S. cities, but that is no indication of Americans' general acceptance of murder or assault. Likewise, continued terrorist violence is not proof that Muslims tolerate it. Indeed, they are its primary victims.

Still, the typical American cannot be blamed for these misperceptions. Media-content analyses show that the majority of U.S. TV news coverage of Islam is sharply negative. Americans are bombarded every day with news stories about Muslims and majority-Muslim countries in which vocal extremists, not evidence, drive perceptions.

Rather than allow extremists on either side to dictate how we discuss Islam and the West, we need to listen carefully to the voices of ordinary people. Our victory in the war on terrorism depends on it.

John L. Esposito is an Islamic studies professor at Georgetown University. Dalia Mogahed is executive director of the Center for Muslim Studies at Gallup. They co-wrote "Who Speaks for Islam? What a Billion Muslims Really Think."

LINK

[bigsixfive 341]

Why doesn't the reality of women's rights and social stature in those countries reflect the lopsided polls quoted above?

[CCTAU 3,482]

Why doesn't the reality of women's rights and social stature in those countries reflect the lopsided polls quoted above?

If you just understood islam, you wouldn't be asking those questions. It's only the radicals that stone women to death. The true muslims only beat their women with a toothpick.

Do muslims attempt to understand Christianity? I would guess not since it's not allowed in their countries. What an asshat this write is. Pass out the anal lube. We should take one up the wazoo for islam's sake. I am sick and tired of hearing how WE don't understand islam and then NOBODY freaking cares of any other religion is allowed in a muslim country. Muslims are damn lucky to be living in a country where they have no fear of persecution from the government. Unlike other religions in their "home" countries.

Put me in the 1 in four category of distrusting and being prejudice against a religion that hates me and wants me to comply or die.

[WinCrimson 61]

It's ignorance at it's finest, channon. People who have never stepped out of their mayonnaise jar shouldn't be expected to hold any different opinion than the bigotry they've been exposed to and accepted.

I know I sure as hell wouldn't want "Christians" such as Timothy McVeigh, KKK members, Eric Rudolph, or Becky Fischer as my neighbor.

As a side note, why was a plea deal worked out with Rudolph? I thought the understood policy was that America would not negotiate with terrorists? Seems as if we should just go ahead and publicly state that those rules don't apply to white Christians, huh?

[CCTAU 3,482]

It's ignorance at it's finest, channon. People who have never stepped out of their mayonnaise jar shouldn't be expected to hold any different opinion than the bigotry they've been exposed to and accepted.

I know I sure as hell wouldn't want "Christians" such as Timothy McVeigh, KKK members, Eric Rudolph, or Becky Fischer as my neighbor.

As a side note, why was a plea deal worked out with Rudolph? I thought the understood policy was that America would not negotiate with terrorists? Seems as if we should just go ahead and publicly state that those rules don't apply to white Christians, huh?

let's see.

1.Timothy McVeigh (What year)

2. KKK members (what year, be more specific and count them up

3. Eric Rudolph (what year)

4. Becky Fischer (what year)

I count maybe 10 if you stretch the KKK part. Only 4 if you can't.

Now just peruse some of TM's post about the religion of peace. I guarantee you that there are no repeats. And ALL of them are MUSLIM. ANd there's a helluva lot more than 4, and growing daily.

You enlightened fool. Your kind will give this country away on a platter. And then bitch about it when it happens. So in your eyes we should just try and understand why islam NEVER condemns any of their own and why whole islamic countries dance in the street when 3000 Americans get blown up by muslim terrorist. Screw you and your whole lot. It's a good thing our soldiers defend a nation and not just the sorry ass appeasers you are. Thank you for bringing your enlightenment to us poor ignant peoples.

[arnaldoabru 11]

It's ignorance at it's finest, channon. People who have never stepped out of their mayonnaise jar shouldn't be expected to hold any different opinion than the bigotry they've been exposed to and accepted.

I know I sure as hell wouldn't want "Christians" such as Timothy McVeigh, KKK members, Eric Rudolph, or Becky Fischer as my neighbor.

As a side note, why was a plea deal worked out with Rudolph? I thought the understood policy was that America would not negotiate with terrorists? Seems as if we should just go ahead and publicly state that those rules don't apply to white Christians, huh?

let's see.

1.Timothy McVeigh (What year)

2. KKK members (what year, be more specific and count them up

3. Eric Rudolph (what year)

4. Becky Fischer (what year)

I count maybe 10 if you stretch the KKK part. Only 4 if you can't.

Now just peruse some of TM's post about the religion of peace. I guarantee you that there are no repeats. And ALL of them are MUSLIM. ANd there's a helluva lot more than 4, and growing daily.

You enlightened fool. Your kind will give this country away on a platter. And then bitch about it when it happens. So in your eyes we should just try and understand why islam NEVER condemns any of their own and why whole islamic countries dance in the street when 3000 Americans get blown up by muslim terrorist. Screw you and your whole lot. It's a good thing our soldiers defend a nation and not just the sorry ass appeasers you are. Thank you for bringing your enlightenment to us poor ignant peoples.

I actually think he is trying to protect you from your country

[WinCrimson 61]

Your post made no sense. None whatsoever.

What does it matter what year McVeigh and Rudolph bombed buildings in the name of our God? The next line about the "number of KKK members and the year" also has nothing to do with my argument. Since you are so interested, though, I suppose you should be aware that in the 1920s, 15% of the nation's eligible population belonged to the Klan. That's a few six million more than ten.

What you see as "maybe ten if you stretch it" turns out to be endless heinous acts all in the name of the very religion you profess -- one you see (or, should) as a "religion of peace." Downplaying the wounds those involved with the KKK have left on our nation almost makes you sound like a sympathizer. That's not a good thing.

- The 1951 Christmas Eve bombing of the home of activists Harry and Harriette Moore in Mims, Florida, resulting in both their deaths.

- The 1957 murder of Willie Edwards, Jr. Klansmen forced Edwards to jump to his death from a bridge into the Alabama River.

- The 1963 assassination of NAACP organizer Medgar Evers in Mississippi. In 1994, former Ku Klux Klansman Byron De La Beckwith was convicted.

- The 1963 bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama, which killed four black girls. The perpetrators were Klan members Robert Chambliss, convicted in 1977, Thomas Blanton and Bobby Frank Cherry, convicted in 2001 and 2002. The fourth suspect, Herman Cash, died before he was indicted.

- The 1964 murders of three civil rights workers Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner in Mississippi. In June 2005, Klan member Edgar Ray Killen was convicted of manslaughter.

- The 1964 murder of two black teenagers, Henry Hezekiah Dee and Charles Eddie Moore in Mississippi. In August 2007, based on the confession of Klansman Charles Marcus Edwards, James Ford Seale, a reputed Ku Klux Klansman, was convicted. Seale was sentenced to serve three life sentences. Seale was a former Mississippi policeman and sheriff's deputy.

- The 1965 Alabama murder of Viola Liuzzo. She was a Southern-raised Detroit mother of five in the state to attend a civil rights march. At the time of her murder Liuzzo was transporting Civil Rights Marchers.

- The 1966 firebombing death of NAACP leader Vernon Dahmer Sr., 58, in Mississippi. In 1998 former Ku Klux Klan wizard Sam Bowers was convicted. Two other Klan members were indicted with Bowers, but one died before trial, and the other's indictment was dismissed.

Becky Fisher? She's a modern day "Christian" infecting elementary school children with hatred and violence at her school, "Jesus Camp" in North Dakota. She encourages the students to "lay down their lives for God and fight with all means possible." Malcom X and SNCC are Disney characters compared to the venom she feeds her students. Do a YouTube search for further proof.

In short, I just get sick of people claiming that their religious beliefs are pure as freshly fallen snow when there have been many killed in the name of it. I certainly don't identify with moonbats such as the abortion clinic bombers, Klansmen, Fischer, and the Westboro Baptist Church but they unfairly claim my religion. Take off the tinfoil hat, open up that mind a little, and take comfort in the fact that not all Muslims are not out to get you. Your religion is far from spotless.

Also, drop the personal attacks. If I can act like an adult and avoid calling you a "fool" and a "sorry ass", then surely you can pay me the same respect.

[AURaptor 1,137]

It's ignorance at it's finest, channon. People who have never stepped out of their mayonnaise jar shouldn't be expected to hold any different opinion than the bigotry they've been exposed to and accepted.

I know I sure as hell wouldn't want "Christians" such as Timothy McVeigh, KKK members, Eric Rudolph, or Becky Fischer as my neighbor.

As a side note, why was a plea deal worked out with Rudolph? I thought the understood policy was that America would not negotiate with terrorists? Seems as if we should just go ahead and publicly state that those rules don't apply to white Christians, huh?

You can count on one hand the number of white "christian" terrorist , if you want to call them view them that way, but it's absurd to compare them to the culture of radical Islam, which is state sponsored by Iran, Syria, ( Iran, until recently ) and a few others. There's nothing remotely close to either Hamas or Hezbolah in the Christian world. Not even a little.

Hell, it's funny to see you try to equivocate the 'christian' terrorist to that of the Islamic world. The KKK? Please! Those clowns are about as scary as a troop of Boy Scouts. The last time anyone paid them any attention was when Robert Byrd ( D-W. VA ) was a young man and an active member.

And remind me again....who the hell is Becky Fischer ? I got no idea

[GoAU 1,690]

If you profess to understand the Middle Eastern culture, why don't you understand that they will only view your "understanding" and "compassion" as weakness? They are at war, and while I don't advocate any type of genocide or of kicking people out of our nation based on faith, I see nothing wrong with being a little suspicious.

Although I do not share their beliefs, I have no gripes with Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, etc, I merely don't trust those who are dead set on attacking my country.

As AURaptor stated, I don't see whole Christian nations lining up to participate in terrorism, supporting terrorism, or harboring terrorist organizations. If the author of the literary pile of manure posted earlier really believed his statistics, why are women repressed in so many Muslim countries?

The comparisons people are trying to draw between "Christian" terrorists and Muslim terrorists are ridiculous - show me "Christian" COUNTRIES on par with Afghanistan (pre-invasion), Iraq, Iran, Syria, Palestine, etc? but surely if the overwhelming number of Muslims drastically opposed these types of behaviors they would do something about it, right.....

[WinCrimson 61]

It's ignorance at it's finest, channon. People who have never stepped out of their mayonnaise jar shouldn't be expected to hold any different opinion than the bigotry they've been exposed to and accepted.

I know I sure as hell wouldn't want "Christians" such as Timothy McVeigh, KKK members, Eric Rudolph, or Becky Fischer as my neighbor.

As a side note, why was a plea deal worked out with Rudolph? I thought the understood policy was that America would not negotiate with terrorists? Seems as if we should just go ahead and publicly state that those rules don't apply to white Christians, huh?

You can count on one hand the number of white "christian" terrorist , if you want to call them view them that way, but it's absurd to compare them to the culture of radical Islam, which is state sponsored by Iran, Syria, ( Iran, until recently ) and a few others. There's nothing remotely close to either Hamas or Hezbolah in the Christian world. Not even a little.

Hell, it's funny to see you try to equivocate the 'christian' terrorist to that of the Islamic world. The KKK? Please! Those clowns are about as scary as a troop of Boy Scouts. The last time anyone paid them any attention was when Robert Byrd ( D-W. VA ) was a young man and an active member.

And remind me again....who the hell is Becky Fischer ? I got no idea

If I want to call them that? What else should I call them? I guess I could call them "people of faith who fought valiantly for a noble cause in which they strongly believed." Or, do the Sons of Confederate Veterans have a patent on that little ditty? Yes, they're as much terrorists as anybody else in this world. Don't fool yourself into thinking that I listed all instances, either.

And while we can thank God that none of the extremist Christian groups are as powerful as Hamas, the fact that they exist is troubling enough. Terrorism doesn't need numbers to be effective, just ask the one man shows of McVeigh or Rudolph.

As far as the KKK goes, there is probably a good reason they don't bother you. Despite how harmless they may be in the modern day, surely you can see how the ideas behind their beliefs would offend some people -- black and white. I'll take a stab and wager that your perception would be a little different if 3,000 Muslims, as harmless as you may think they are, were preaching Islamic supremacy and using harsh language toward all white men. No?

FWIW, here's Becky Fischer's school. The idolatry runs like a river. It's beyond pitiful.

GoAU, I don't have an understanding of Middle Eastern culture or Islam. Maybe I will have a desire to someday, but as of right now I just have no reason to. I do know, however, that Americans have shown some unexplainable hypocrisy toward people of that ethnicity despite the fact that terrorism exists within their own religion. The more I think about it, Rev. Wright's statements seem more plausible.

The same can be said for the media and their coverage of homicides. Chandra Levy, Jon Benet Ramsey, Lauren Burk, Eve Carson, Natalee Holloway, Laci Peterson, Madeline McCann, Taylor Behl, Jennifer Wilbanks, and more. The mainstream media runs stories of beautiful, missing white females into the ground and back while totally ignoring the same tragedy when it happens in minority communities. To them, it's not a juicy story unless you can attach an attractive, innocent face to it.

I still haven't heard why there was no outrage from the usual crowd over Rudolph's sentence. The scum is serving two life terms without parole for multiple murders yet there is silence from the typical "I ain't paying for him to sit in jail on my tax money!" crew. Any explanations?

[arnaldoabru 11]

It's ignorance at it's finest, channon. People who have never stepped out of their mayonnaise jar shouldn't be expected to hold any different opinion than the bigotry they've been exposed to and accepted.

I know I sure as hell wouldn't want "Christians" such as Timothy McVeigh, KKK members, Eric Rudolph, or Becky Fischer as my neighbor.

As a side note, why was a plea deal worked out with Rudolph? I thought the understood policy was that America would not negotiate with terrorists? Seems as if we should just go ahead and publicly state that those rules don't apply to white Christians, huh?

You can count on one hand the number of white "christian" terrorist , if you want to call them view them that way, but it's absurd to compare them to the culture of radical Islam, which is state sponsored by Iran, Syria, ( Iran, until recently ) and a few others. There's nothing remotely close to either Hamas or Hezbolah in the Christian world. Not even a little.

Hell, it's funny to see you try to equivocate the 'christian' terrorist to that of the Islamic world. The KKK? Please! Those clowns are about as scary as a troop of Boy Scouts. The last time anyone paid them any attention was when Robert Byrd ( D-W. VA ) was a young man and an active member.

And remind me again....who the hell is Becky Fischer ? I got no idea

She was that girl in NY who had an affair with Joey Buttafucco

[autiger4life 3]

but surely if the overwhelming number of Muslims drastically opposed these types of behaviors they would do something about it, right.....

You mean like we stop the criminals in our inncer cities? Oh year, we have tens of thousands of murders every year, but if we actually disagreed with murders, then we would do something about it, right.....

Imagine in a Middle Eastern country if everyone who would have become a criminal in the US, they instead are recruited by a terroist organization. We have gangs that give kids a sense of family, they have terroism.

Its funny to think that there are plenty of people talking about how all Americans are violent, and posts on a forum the "Country of Peace" and lists the many murders that happen every single day in our country. Someone might say, hey, they really aren't all violent that is just the minority. But then you would have all these people think they are "all" violent because violent acts take place by Americans every day. So are all Americans violent?

As a matter of fact, from now on, every post with the Religon of Peace will be followed up with the country of peace postings. The only reason behind this is to show, that TM post five violent acts all over the world, and tries to parlay that into Muslim's are violent, and it would be much easier to list ten murders in the US and parlay that into all Americans are violent.

[GoAU 1,690]

You mean like we stop the criminals in our inncer cities? Oh year, we have tens of thousands of murders every year, but if we actually disagreed with murders, then we would do something about it, right.....

No, I mean like if our citizens strongly disagreed with an established government and it's laws (for example - taxation without representation, illegal search and seizure, etc) that they would take the necessary steps to remove or change the laws, or if necessary, the government. Does that sound kind of familiar - oh yeah, the Declaration of Independance. And at the time we didn't even have "94%" disagreeing with the existing government.

Want a "less radical" example? Let's take a look at our own Civil Rights movement - if you'll remember women and minirities didn't always have equal rights, the right to vote, etc here in the USA. But, the population (rightfully) disagreed with the existing discrimination and changed the laws of our country.

So if you would care to draw analogies to my comments why not try and draw relevant ones?

[CCTAU 3,482]

You mean like we stop the criminals in our inncer cities? Oh year, we have tens of thousands of murders every year, but if we actually disagreed with murders, then we would do something about it, right.....

No, I mean like if our citizens strongly disagreed with an established government and it's laws (for example - taxation without representation, illegal search and seizure, etc) that they would take the necessary steps to remove or change the laws, or if necessary, the government. Does that sound kind of familiar - oh yeah, the Declaration of Independance. And at the time we didn't even have "94%" disagreeing with the existing government.

What a "less radical" example? Let's take a look at our own Civil Rights movement - if you'll remember women and minirities didn't always have equal rights, the right to vote, etc here in the USA. But, the population (rightfully) disagreed with the existing discrimination and changed the laws of our country.

So if you would care to draw analogies to my comments why not try and draw relevant ones?

They can't. Appeasers will always be the last victims. But they will be victims none the less. They just realize it too late. To watch these guys spin their drivel makes me sad that they are Americans.

The religion of peace kills daily out of hate and religious duty. Plus every country STILL has the requisite number of normal killings that the US has; greed, lust, etc.. The fact is very few killings in the US are related to extreme Christianity. If you can't see that the religion of peace teaches it's followers to hate every other religion, THEN YOU ARE A FOOL. If you only try to judge the religion of peace by what we have here in the US, THEN YOU ARE A FOOL. If you try to put the blame on Americans, THEN YOU ARE A FOOL. Get the picture? It's not about hate for the religion of peace. It's about survival of my country and it's citizens against a religion that wants nothing less than total capitulation.