Socialists for Obama

[au2004ece 30]

I keep being told that Obama is not a socialist. Well, the socialists sure do believe he is the best choice.

Apparently, Obama's web site allows users to create their own "Barack is Great" page. He enjoys the suppport of socialists enough to leave these pages up.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/Marxi...munistsforObama

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/juancarloscruz

[TitanTiger 21,147]

I keep being told that Obama is not a socialist. Well, the socialists sure do believe he is the best choice.

Apparently, Obama's web site allows users to create their own "Barack is Great" page. He enjoys the suppport of socialists enough to leave these pages up.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/Marxi...munistsforObama

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/juancarloscruz

A lot of libertarians end up voting for Republicans too, not because the GOP is really libertarian, but because its better than the alternative particularly on economics in most cases (the current Bush administration notwithstanding).

This still doesn't prove your case. You're still misusing the term "socialist." You keep being told this because the words don't seem to be sinking in.

[au2004ece 30]

I keep being told that Obama is not a socialist. Well, the socialists sure do believe he is the best choice.

Apparently, Obama's web site allows users to create their own "Barack is Great" page. He enjoys the suppport of socialists enough to leave these pages up.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/Marxi...munistsforObama

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/juancarloscruz

A lot of libertarians end up voting for Republicans too, not because the GOP is really libertarian, but because its better than the alternative particularly on economics in most cases (the current Bush administration notwithstanding).

This still doesn't prove your case. You're still misusing the term "socialist." You keep being told this because the words don't seem to be sinking in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Socialism/liberalism whatever. The kind of liberalism that Obama promotes is what paves the way for socialism. If Obama were president for 20 years and had democrats in congress for 20 years, we would be a socialist country. Instead, if he is president for 8 years, he will take steps in that direction. There is nothing to the left of Obama's proposed policies that Obama would not support.

[RunInRed 18,172]

Oh geesh..not another one. TM, I did not realize you had children.

[TitanTiger 21,147]

I keep being told that Obama is not a socialist. Well, the socialists sure do believe he is the best choice.

Apparently, Obama's web site allows users to create their own "Barack is Great" page. He enjoys the suppport of socialists enough to leave these pages up.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/Marxi...munistsforObama

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/juancarloscruz

A lot of libertarians end up voting for Republicans too, not because the GOP is really libertarian, but because its better than the alternative particularly on economics in most cases (the current Bush administration notwithstanding).

This still doesn't prove your case. You're still misusing the term "socialist." You keep being told this because the words don't seem to be sinking in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Socialism/liberalism whatever. The kind of liberalism that Obama promotes is what paves the way for socialism. If Obama were president for 20 years and had democrats in congress for 20 years, we would be a socialist country. Instead, if he is president for 8 years, he will take steps in that direction. There is nothing to the left of Obama's proposed policies that Obama would not support.

And all the conservatives said, "Please stop talking."

[au2004ece 30]

I keep being told that Obama is not a socialist. Well, the socialists sure do believe he is the best choice.

Apparently, Obama's web site allows users to create their own "Barack is Great" page. He enjoys the suppport of socialists enough to leave these pages up.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/Marxi...munistsforObama

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/juancarloscruz

A lot of libertarians end up voting for Republicans too, not because the GOP is really libertarian, but because its better than the alternative particularly on economics in most cases (the current Bush administration notwithstanding).

This still doesn't prove your case. You're still misusing the term "socialist." You keep being told this because the words don't seem to be sinking in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Socialism/liberalism whatever. The kind of liberalism that Obama promotes is what paves the way for socialism. If Obama were president for 20 years and had democrats in congress for 20 years, we would be a socialist country. Instead, if he is president for 8 years, he will take steps in that direction. There is nothing to the left of Obama's proposed policies that Obama would not support.

And all the conservatives said, "Please stop talking."

So, you don't disagree with what I said? But, instead you think conservatives would want me to stop talking?

[TitanTiger 21,147]

I keep being told that Obama is not a socialist. Well, the socialists sure do believe he is the best choice.

Apparently, Obama's web site allows users to create their own "Barack is Great" page. He enjoys the suppport of socialists enough to leave these pages up.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/Marxi...munistsforObama

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/juancarloscruz

A lot of libertarians end up voting for Republicans too, not because the GOP is really libertarian, but because its better than the alternative particularly on economics in most cases (the current Bush administration notwithstanding).

This still doesn't prove your case. You're still misusing the term "socialist." You keep being told this because the words don't seem to be sinking in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Socialism/liberalism whatever. The kind of liberalism that Obama promotes is what paves the way for socialism. If Obama were president for 20 years and had democrats in congress for 20 years, we would be a socialist country. Instead, if he is president for 8 years, he will take steps in that direction. There is nothing to the left of Obama's proposed policies that Obama would not support.

And all the conservatives said, "Please stop talking."

So, you don't disagree with what I said? But, instead you think conservatives would want me to stop talking?

I do disagree. And I think when you talk like this, you do conservatives no favors.

[TexasTiger 14,160]

I keep being told that Obama is not a socialist. Well, the socialists sure do believe he is the best choice.

Probably a safe bet to assume that white supremacists will prefer McCain to Obama-- but that doesn't make McCain a white supremacist, does it?

[TitanTiger 21,147]

I keep being told that Obama is not a socialist. Well, the socialists sure do believe he is the best choice.

Probably a safe bet to assume that white supremacists will prefer McCain to Obama-- but that doesn't make McCain a white supremacist, does it?

owned.

[au2004ece 30]

I keep being told that Obama is not a socialist. Well, the socialists sure do believe he is the best choice.

Probably a safe bet to assume that white supremacists will prefer McCain to Obama-- but that doesn't make McCain a white supremacist, does it?

owned.

Not owned. McCain's policies have nothing to do with white supremacy. Obama's policies have a lot to do with socialism and more welfare.

[TitanTiger 21,147]

I keep being told that Obama is not a socialist. Well, the socialists sure do believe he is the best choice.

Probably a safe bet to assume that white supremacists will prefer McCain to Obama-- but that doesn't make McCain a white supremacist, does it?

owned.

Not owned. McCain's policies have nothing to do with white supremacy. Obama's policies have a lot to do with socialism and more welfare.

Whatever dude. That wasn't your argument. But the point is, he's not a socialist and every time you use that term for him, you only make yourself look ignorant.

[au2004ece 30]

I keep being told that Obama is not a socialist. Well, the socialists sure do believe he is the best choice.

Probably a safe bet to assume that white supremacists will prefer McCain to Obama-- but that doesn't make McCain a white supremacist, does it?

owned.

Not owned. McCain's policies have nothing to do with white supremacy. Obama's policies have a lot to do with socialism and more welfare.

Whatever dude. That wasn't your argument. But the point is, he's not a socialist and every time you use that term for him, you only make yourself look ignorant.

How does that make me ignorant? I think it makes me a little more intuitive than you, since you can't see it.

[RunInRed 18,172]

[Tigermike 3,673]

Well to be fair, the socialist did campaign for Obama in Chicago. They have endorsed him since then. Obama did campaign for the only open socialist in the U.S. senate, Senator Bernie Senators of Vermont.

But then just because the socialist support Obama and Obama campaigned for a socialist and some of Obamas proposals are socialist it does not mean that Obama is a socialist.

[TitanTiger 21,147]

I keep being told that Obama is not a socialist. Well, the socialists sure do believe he is the best choice.

Probably a safe bet to assume that white supremacists will prefer McCain to Obama-- but that doesn't make McCain a white supremacist, does it?

owned.

Not owned. McCain's policies have nothing to do with white supremacy. Obama's policies have a lot to do with socialism and more welfare.

Whatever dude. That wasn't your argument. But the point is, he's not a socialist and every time you use that term for him, you only make yourself look ignorant.

How does that make me ignorant? I think it makes me a little more intuitive than you, since you can't see it.

No, it makes you good at guilt by association, but not terribly bright on vocabulary.

[TitanTiger 21,147]

Well to be fair, the socialist did campaign for Obama in Chicago. They have endorsed him since then. Obama did campaign for the only open socialist in the U.S. senate, Senator Bernie Senators of Vermont.

But then just because the socialist support Obama and Obama campaigned for a socialist and some of Obamas proposals are socialist it does not mean that Obama is a socialist.

Which of Obama's proposals, by the standard definition of socialism that most people understand, are socialist? I'm looking through his "Blueprint for Change" and though I certainly don't agree with all the approaches he has to the various issues, I'm not seeing which ones are socialist:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

[RunInRed 18,172]

Well to be fair, the socialist did campaign for Obama in Chicago. They have endorsed him since then. Obama did campaign for the only open socialist in the U.S. senate, Senator Bernie Senators of Vermont.

But then just because the socialist support Obama and Obama campaigned for a socialist and some of Obamas proposals are socialist it does not mean that Obama is a socialist.

Which of Obama's proposals, by the standard definition of socialism that most people understand, are socialist? I'm looking through his "Blueprint for Change" and though I certainly don't agree with all the approaches he has to the various issues, I'm not seeing which ones are socialist:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

I would like to challenge all of the Obama critics on this board to read this plan and site specific example of policy disagreements instead of the cheap back and forth we have been come accustomed to. I've looked and read through McCain's stuff and I will say I try to discuss differences I have with him. And I have noted this on this board - most recently healthcare, iraq, and economic policies.

I will also say that after reading both candidates plans, McCain's does not have near the level of detail, scope, or depth that Obama's does. In fact, I think it is pretty impossible to argue that Obama is just about "change" and speeches - even if you don't agree with his plans, he has a vision for the country.

[Auburn85 436]

by what percentage is Obama looking to increase education funding?

how will it be funded?

[au2004ece 30]

by what percentage is Obama looking to increase education funding?

how will it be funded?

Obama doesn't need to give us numbers or tell us where money would come from. Just listen to his speeches and you will feel better.

[RunInRed 18,172]

by what percentage is Obama looking to increase education funding?

how will it be funded?

Obama doesn't need to give us numbers or tell us where money would come from. Just listen to his speeches and you will feel better.

Info you are looking for is in the link above - starts on page 20.

[Tigermike 3,673]

Well to be fair, the socialist did campaign for Obama in Chicago. They have endorsed him since then. Obama did campaign for the only open socialist in the U.S. senate, Senator Bernie Senators of Vermont.

But then just because the socialist support Obama and Obama campaigned for a socialist and some of Obamas proposals are socialist it does not mean that Obama is a socialist.

Which of Obama's proposals, by the standard definition of socialism that most people understand, are socialist? I'm looking through his "Blueprint for Change" and though I certainly don't agree with all the approaches he has to the various issues, I'm not seeing which ones are socialist:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

First off I will not be limited by “the standard definition of socialism that most people understand, are socialist”. Mainly because socialists themselves are divided and some are much less strident in their agenda and goals. Also The Socialist Party USA & The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), are both the same and different in the way they articulate their agenda. As you know Obama was backed by the Chicago DSA. But just being backed and endorsed by socialist does not make Obama a socialist. But as you and everyone else knows, an openly socialist candidate would have no chance of being elected president.

As you know the title of this thread was “Socialists for Obama”, which is fair. It is also fair to take a look at his “socialist lite” agenda. Also it is fair to compare his talking points to the talking points of the The Socialist Party USA & The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA).

OBAMA’S SECRET SOCIALIST CONNECTIONS

Obama’s socialist backing goes back at least to 1996, when he received the endorsement of the Chicago branch of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) for an Illinois state senate seat. Later, the Chicago DSA newsletter reported that Obama, as a state senator, showed up to eulogize Saul Mendelson, one of the “champions” of “Chicago’s democratic left” and a long-time socialist activist. Obama’s stint as a “community organizer” in Chicago has gotten some attention, but his relationship with the DSA socialists, who groomed and backed him, has been generally ignored.

Blogger Steve Bartin, who has been following Obama’s career and involvement with the Chicago socialists, uncovered a fascinating video showing Obama campaigning for openly socialist Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Interestingly, Sanders, who won his seat in 2006, called Obama “one of the great leaders of the United States Senate,” even though Obama had only been in the body for about two years. In 2007, the National Journal said that Obama had established himself as “the most liberal Senator.” More liberal than Sanders? That is quite a feat. Does this make Obama a socialist, too?

DSA describes itself as the largest socialist organization in the United States and the principal U.S. affiliate of the Socialist International. The Socialist International (SI) has what is called “consultative status” with the United Nations. In other words, it works hand-in-glove with the world body.

The international con-nection is important and significant because an Obama bill, “The Global Poverty Act,” has recently been rushed through the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, with the assistance of Democratic Senator Joe Biden, the chairman, and Republican Senator Richard Lugar. The legislation (S.2433) commits the U.S. to spending hundreds of billions of dollars more in foreign aid on the rest of the world, in order to comply with the “Millennium Goals” established by the United Nations. Conservative members of the committee were largely caught off-guard by the move to pass the Obama bill but are putting a “hold” on it, in order to try to prevent the legislation, which also quickly passed the House, from being quickly brought up for a full Senate vote. But observers think that Senate Democrats may try to pass it quickly anyway, in order to give Obama a precious legislative “victory” that he could run on.

http://www.aim.org/aim-report/is-barack-ob...a-marxist-mole/

While that little piece is a bit much, here is an incomplete list of comparisons of the agenda and talking points of Obama and the Socialist Party USA & some from DSA Chicago.

From the socialist USA web site.

2. We call for the United States to immediately and unconditionally withdraw its forces from Iraq and Afghanistan. (Obama has limited his immediate demand to withdrawal from Iraq.)

http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/int...onalpolicy.html

4. We call for a full employment policy. We support the provision of a livable guaranteed annual income.

6. We call for a steeply graduated income tax and a steeply graduated estate tax, and a maximum income of no more than ten times the minimum. We oppose regressive taxes such as payroll tax, sales tax, and property taxes. (Sounds like an Obama talking point doesn’t it? http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/p...rahramey/gGgMnR )

7. We call for the restoration of the capital gains tax and luxury tax on a progressive, graduated scale. (Barack Obama is in favor of nearly doubling the capital-gains tax rate from 15 percent to 28 percent http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commer...ment-taxes.html )

13. We support a program of massive federal investment in both urban and rural areas for infrastructure reconstruction and economic development. (Obama http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/p...rahramey/gGgMnR )

15. We call for the elimination of subsidies and tax breaks that benefit corporations and all other forms of corporate welfare. (Obama likes this one doesn’t he?)

http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/economics.html

2. We call for reparations from the federal government for its role in the slave trade and the genocide of Native American nations, with the reparations programs administered by the oppressed communities themselves. (Obama’s position depends on who is asking and who is listening. And who is watching. Prior to his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Obama opposed reparations for slavery. After his election, Obama subtly changed his view, stating he was against "just signing over checks to African-Americans," leaving open the possibility of other forms of reparations would be acceptable to him (Chicago Tribune Nov. 14, 2004).)

3. We support the efforts of people of color to self-defense, self-determination, and to organize independently for their liberation.

4. We oppose all efforts to declare English an official language, and call for an end to all language discrimination. We demand that all public and private institutions provide services and materials in the languages of their communities. (Obama

)

Seniors

The Socialist Party recognizes the right of seniors to a dignified life, free from economic hardship, social isolation, and discrimination in employment and credit. Sufficient income, housing, health care, medication, and access to social services must be guaranteed to all elders.

1. We oppose the privatization of the Social Security system and the use of Social Security trust funds for any other purpose, such as offsetting the federal deficit. (Obama and all dems it seems fall in line with the socialist on this issue.)

2. We demand that the Social Security system remain entirely within the public sector, with funding derived from a steeply graduated income tax on all income, earned and unearned. (Ditto for Obama.)

3. We call for the inclusion of all state and local government workers within the Social Security System.

4. We call for the right of retirement at age 55 a minimum annual retirement income of $25,000, tax free, and protected from inflation by cost of living increases. (Obama went up to $50,000 http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/p...rahramey/gGgMnR )

5. We call for a cap on Social Security benefits so that no beneficiary receives more than three times the income of those receiving the minimum. (This sounds like something Obama and the dems would be for.)

6. We support an increase in home service, including home-delivered quality meals and the provision of personal aid devices and physical therapy, so that older people can remain independent in their homes and community.

7. We call for jobs and training for seniors who do not wish to retire.

8. We support the formation of publicly funded and democratically controlled senior centers that provide opportunities for social and recreational activities and community involvement.

9. We call for the election of advocates and ombudspersons by assemblies of seniors and caregivers to ensure the protection of residents’ rights in nursing homes and a stimulating environment in group and nursing home situations.

10. We support hospice care, and a person's right to die with dignity in a manner of their choosing.

1. We demand full support for every woman's right to choose when, if, and how to have children, including the right to free abortion on demand at any stage of pregnancy, without interference or coercion. Clinics providing abortion services must have the full protection of the law. (Obama’s position on abortion is well known.)

5. We call for the decriminalization of prostitution and demand that sex workers, just like all women workers, are guaranteed a full range of health, social, and legal services; and working conditions free from harassment, violence, and exploitation

6. We call for 16 months paid leave to be shared by new parents or in its entirety by a single parent, and the expansion and full-funding of high-quality child care facilities. (Obama http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/ )

7. We support comprehensive educational and training opportunities, comparable worth laws, and affirmative action for women. We believe that women should be able to enter any occupation they choose, without hindrance. (Obama http://www.slate.com/id/2164819/obamacompworth )

comparison of the Obama & Clinton agendas at Mother Jones.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/update/200...mic-policy.html

Health Care

The Socialist Party stands for a socialized health care system based on universal coverage, salaried doctors and health care workers, and revenues derived from a steeply graduated income tax.

1. We support a national health program with full standard and alternative medical, dental, vision, and mental health coverage for all, publicly funded through progressive taxation and controlled by democratically elected assemblies of health care workers and patients. The National Health Program should extend, and replace, Medicare and Medicaid. (Obama has been pushing his national health care program since he started running for president. Which was when he first went to Washington (or before) )

2. We call for a health care system that emphasizes preventive care, respects patients' privacy, gives special attention to the needs of the physically and mentally disabled, and conducts treatment and research unimpaired by sexism, racism, or homophobia.

3. We call for full funding for AIDS research, prevention, and treatment. We demand full civil rights for people living with AIDS.

4. We call for public ownership and worker and community control of the pharmaceutical industry.

5. We call for educational programs to help prevent drug addiction; for voluntary treatment programs for addicts and alcoholics; and for the availability of free, sterile needles for those still using IV drugs.

6. We call for the reinstatement of funding to community mental health services so that low-cost or no-cost treatment is available on a voluntary basis, with clients' rights respected. We oppose involuntary incarceration for treatment without due process.

7. We support the right to choose or refuse medical treatment, the right to die, and the right to assisted suicide.

http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/humanneeds.html

1. We call for public ownership and democratic control of all our natural resources in order to conserve resources, preserve our wilderness areas, and restore environmental quality.

2. The U.S. must immediately return to participation in international agreements, such as the Kyoto Protocol, limiting carbon emissions, and accept a major role in worldwide efforts to control global warming.

3. We call for placing full financial responsibility on private companies for prevention and clean up of their own toxic wastes and for full compensation of workers and residents adversely affected by environmental hazards.

4. We oppose policies that target minority communities for placement of local landfills, toxic waste disposal sites, or incinerators.

5. We call for strong, enforceable endangered species protection that focuses on habitat-centered protection for plants and animals.

6. We oppose any new nuclear power projects and call for the rapid phasing out of all nuclear power plants, and a ban on the export of nuclear technology.

7. We support the recycling of glass, metals, plastic, paper, and chemicals and the use of recycled materials for public works projects such as roadways, parks, and playgrounds.

8. We call for shutting down waste incinerators and phasing out landfills and especially oppose targeting minority communities for hazardous waste disposal sites.

9. We oppose open-pit mining operations and support the reclamation of land used by mining operations at the company’s expense.

10. We support large-scale environmental restoration efforts.

http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/environment.html

Immigration

The Socialist Party works to build a world in which everyone will be able to freely move across borders, to visit and to live wherever they choose.

We recognize the central role global capitalism plays in forcing the immigration of people from the less developed to the more industrialized countries, often leading to further economic and social injustice.

1. We support secular democratic states, assuring equal rights to every citizen and resident in accordance with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

2. We oppose the militarization of the United States/Mexican border, and an increase in the service budget instead of the "military" budget of the INS. (Obama & the dems like this don’t they?)

3. We defend the rights of all immigrants to education, health care, and full civil and legal rights and call for an unconditional amnesty program for all undocumented people. We oppose the imposition of any fees on those receiving amnesty. (Ditto, Obama & dems)

4. We call for an end to the use of "secret evidence" in deportation hearings, a ban on all immigration detentions and military tribunals, and full due process and habeus corpus rights in U.S. courts for all non-citizens on U.S. territory or in U.S. custody. (Ditto, Obama & dems)

5. We demand an end to police raids in areas where immigrants congregate.

6. We oppose "guest worker" programs. We call for full citizenship rights upon demonstrating residency for six months.

10. We call for full representation for the U.S. territories of Guam and Puerto Rico, all Native American reservations, and the District of Columbia. (Obama has and does support representatives (and Senators?) for the District of Columbia.)

14. We call for the abolition of the death penalty. (Ditto Obama)

http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/civilrights.html

U.S. Green Party

http://www.greenchange.org/article.php?id=144

[TitanTiger 21,147]

Mike, that was a whole lot of verbiage to construct a strawman. Socialism is a specific thing, not just the homebrewed definition you come up with to tar and feather someone:

Socialism refers to the goal of a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community. This control may be either direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state, worker, or community ownership of the means of production, goals which have been attributed to, and claimed by, a number of political parties and governments throughout history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism

And while the title may have been "Socialists for Obama," the content of the post and other posts by the thread starter were clear that this was evidence that Obama is a socialist. And that's inaccurate.

As I said before if you view pure capitalist as one end of the spectrum and pure socialist on the other, every major party candidate in modern history has landed somewhere on that continuum. Even Republicans or conservatives have elements of socialist policies because our economy is not a pure laizzez faire capitalist system. For well over the last 150 years there have been varying levels of government regulation, involvement, control and so on with regard to the marketplace.

Oh, and by the way, Obama is not a death penalty opponent:

Obama wrote in his recent memoir that he thinks the death penalty "does little to deter crime." But he supports capital punishment in cases "so heinous, so beyond the pale, that the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage by meting out the ultimate punishment."...

A critic of the state's broken capital punishment system, Obama spent two years working with Republicans to broker a series of reforms aimed at making it more difficult for the innocent to face execution. Still, Obama found himself on various sides of the death penalty debate. Five months into office, he voted to expand the list of death-eligible crimes to include the brutal murder of a senior citizen or a disabled person. Four years later, he opposed adding murders that were part of "gang activity" to the list, saying the term was a "mechanism to target particular neighborhoods (and) particular individuals."

http://deathpenaltyusa.blogspot.com/2007/0...th-penalty.html

[Tigermike 3,673]

Mike, that was a whole lot of verbiage to construct a strawman. Socialism is a specific thing, not just the homebrewed definition you come up with to tar and feather someone:

Socialism refers to the goal of a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community. This control may be either direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state, worker, or community ownership of the means of production, goals which have been attributed to, and claimed by, a number of political parties and governments throughout history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism

When you limit the definition to the above you miss the point. Socialist in the U.S. do not advocate "a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community." They know that would not fly. At least at this point in time.

[TitanTiger 21,147]

Mike, that was a whole lot of verbiage to construct a strawman. Socialism is a specific thing, not just the homebrewed definition you come up with to tar and feather someone:

Socialism refers to the goal of a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community. This control may be either direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state, worker, or community ownership of the means of production, goals which have been attributed to, and claimed by, a number of political parties and governments throughout history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism

When you limit the definition to the above you miss the point. Socialist in the U.S. do not advocate "a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community." They know that would not fly. At least at this point in time.

I'm not limiting the definition, that IS the definition. That's like saying that just because the GOP supports some things the libertarians support that we're on the road to legalized prostitution and decriminalizing heroin. US Socialists support the definition of socialism. They'll take what they can get right now, but that is what they want. To whatever degree a candidate supports or partially supports issues they care about, they will support that candidate since a true socialist doesn't have a chance in hell of winning anything.

Point being: Obama is not a socialist no matter how many times and different ways people play the "guilt by association" card.

[Tigermike 3,673]

Mike, that was a whole lot of verbiage to construct a strawman. Socialism is a specific thing, not just the homebrewed definition you come up with to tar and feather someone:

Socialism refers to the goal of a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community. This control may be either direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state, worker, or community ownership of the means of production, goals which have been attributed to, and claimed by, a number of political parties and governments throughout history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism

When you limit the definition to the above you miss the point. Socialist in the U.S. do not advocate "a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community." They know that would not fly. At least at this point in time.

I'm not limiting the definition, that IS the definition. That's like saying that just because the GOP supports some things the libertarians support that we're on the road to legalized prostitution and decriminalizing heroin. US Socialists support the definition of socialism. They'll take what they can get right now, but that is what they want. To whatever degree a candidate supports or partially supports issues they care about, they will support that candidate since a true socialist doesn't have a chance in hell of winning anything.

Point being: Obama is not a socialist no matter how many times and different ways people play the "guilt by association" card.

Well when the socialist themselves say they don't advocate the confiscation of private property then the definition must have changed. Get up with the times.