10 Christian Music Songs That Don't Suck

[TitanTiger 21,162]

Some of you might not know this, but I worked in marketing in the music industry for about 10 years, part of that time in Christian music. An odd side effect is that when I got there, probably 80-85% of my music collection was from Christian artists, but when I left probably 75-80% is now mainstream music. Some of it is growing up and moving on to more eclectic tastes that aren't easily found in CCM. The other is a growing disdain for formulaic rip-offs that merely mimic popular styles rather than seeking to strike new artistic ground of its own.

So anyway, I ran across this article from a Jewish writer that surprisingly lined up with a lot of my own feelings on the state of the music. He has a list of 10 Christian songs that don't suck that I pretty much agree with verbatim. I could add a few others, but this is a good representation:

This is a list of 10 great Christian rock songs. Really. I know what you’re thinking. I’m a secular Jew who always took it for granted that Christian rock stinks. Indeed, until a couple of years ago I knew virtually nothing about Christian rock except that it stinks. But after spending time inside the “evangelical bubble” I had to admit I was mistaken. It turns out there’s Christian music that never gets played on those radio stations you accidentally stumble across on road trips — and that doesn’t reduce all expressions of faith to crass evangelism, anodyne praise, or crypto-romance.

Skeptics can listen to the songs for themselves here.

1) Why Don’t You Look Into Jesus?, Larry Norman. Norman, who died in February, was often called the father of Christian rock, an accolade he understandably spent his life fleeing from. Norman’s gritty “Jesus music” of the late 60s and early 70s bears little resemblance to homogenized ballads that the contemporary Christian music industry would later become known for. In this bluesy stomp, reminiscent of the Band at their best, he uses a series of rhymed couplets to sketch an indelible portrait of an archetypal hippie whose search for bliss isn’t quite panning out. The song’s wicked humor and uncompromising darkness are encapsulated in what is possibly the most awesome lyric ever in Christian rock: “Gonorrhea on Valentine’s Day, and you’re still looking for the perfect lay.”

2) Kiss Me, Sixpence None The Richer. O.K., maybe this isn’t a great song, but it’s a pretty good one, and most people actually know it so it will help me explain what Christian rock is and isn’t. This jangly pop tune, lifted somewhat above its station by singer Leigh Nash’s lovely voice, was an inescapable mainstream hit in 1999. The lyrics are unabashedly romantic: “Strike up the band and make the fireflies dance, silver moon sparkling, so kiss me.” And if you’re looking for a covert message about Jesus in them, there isn’t one. “We don’t experience faith as a compartmentalized, religious aspect of life,” Nash has said. “I don’t feel like I’m more of a Christian when I’m saying my prayers than when I’m kissing my husband.” While it should be generally possible to discern a Christian worldview permeating an artist’s oeuvre, their Christianity would arguably be less authentic if they limited their focus to explicit pronouncements of faith. As T-Bone Burnett (who almost made this list) put it, “If Jesus is the light of the world, there are two kinds of songs you can write. You can write songs about the light, or you can write songs about what you can see from the light.”

3) Born, Over the Rhine. Karin Bergquist may be the finest singer in the alt-country / Americana scene right now, striking the perfect balance between earthy sensuality and ethereal grace. This heartbreakingly intimate song from the band’s 2005 album “Drunkard’s Prayer” offers as fine an expression as you could hope for of how a Christian is called to live, without stooping to any false promises of rainbows and rose gardens: “I was born to laugh, I learned to laugh through my tears. I was born to love, I’m gonna learn to love without fear.”

4) Every Grain of Sand, Bob Dylan. One reason most Christian rock really does stink is that much of the genre is saddled by a belief that Christian musicians are simply ministers who happen to use music as a tool, and who must employ only unambiguous, propositional lyrics so that listeners can’t possibly be led astray. Even Dylan fell into that trap in his first two “born again” albums. There are some fine songs on “Slow Train Coming” and “Saved” — he was still Bob Dylan, after all — but he seemed to have suddenly become afraid of poetry. Only on the last album of the trilogy that marked his “Christian” career did Dylan loosen his grip on the reins and produce this complex testament of faith that stands with the best of his work. Of course, Dylan’s catalog — before and since his born again period — is replete with songs that reflect at least a fascination with Christian theology. If you count these, there is probably no greater Christian rock song — and few greater rock songs, period — than “Shelter From the Storm,” which uses explicit Gospel imagery to paint a harrowing portrait of sinful man separated from God and in search of redemption.

5) The Lust, The Flesh, The Eyes and The Pride of Life, The 77s. Given the relentlessly upbeat tone of Christian radio — “Positive music! Safe for your family!” as the announcers like to say — you might forget that the Bible does not guarantee a carefree life for believers. The best Christian rock wrestles with those things that “drain the life right out of me,” in the words of this 1987 meditation on 1 John 2:16. You don’t have to be a Christian to recognize that we all spend too much time chasing after possessions and fleeting joys that we don’t really need. This Springsteen-esque rocker offers no pat answers, it just raises some important questions.

6) Rapture, Pedro the Lion. Before he finally (or so he says) abandoned the Christian music scene sometime around 2006, Pedro the Lion’s David Bazan delighted in shaking the faith of his churchgoing audiences. Bazan apparently believed that faith without doubt breeds a dangerous righteousness. So it must have been a calculated thumb in the eye to write a chorus like, “Oh, my sweet rapture, I hear Jesus calling me home” for a song about a torrid extramarital affair. “Gideon is in the drawer, clothes scattered on the floor.” Rapture is not celebratory (few of Bazan’s emo-tinged songs are), but it’s honest enough to admit that some things that are wrong can feel pretty right.

7) Nice and Blue (Part 2), mewithoutYou. This sonically adventurous indie rock ensemble has fiercely devoted following that often seems to revere singer-songwriter Aaron Weiss as a modern-day prophet. In this 2006 song, Weiss brings the full power of his pleading speech-singing — think early Neil Young — to a visionary epic of self-recrimination for his persistent failure to accept God’s grace. Weiss is “caught like a bear by the bees with its hand in the hive, who complains of the pain of the sting when I’m lucky I got out alive.” Like Mike Roe of the 77s, he is doomed (at least, withoutYou) to pursue useless pleasures “strapped like a watch on my wrist that’s finished with gold but can’t tell the time.”

8) My Apology, Jonathan Rundman. Despite its literally confessional lyrics, this is a bright, catchy indie-pop song. Rundman, who recorded this for a 2001 double album called “Sound Theology,” is one of the few mainline Christians (he’s Lutheran) writing recognizably Christian rock. Like most people, Rundman has trouble confessing his sins, at one point attempting to justify his cynicism of the church by pointing out to God that “I’m surrounded by bigots and fools who say your love is a heavenly paycheck and faith is all about rules.” But then, like a good, anguished Lutheran (and indie rocker) he acknowledges that he’s “guilty of going the opposite way” as he “sit here cheapening grace.”

9) You Know That (Is Nothing New), Vigilantes of Love. A deliciously infectious power pop song that would fit comfortably in a mix with Marshall Crenshaw, Nick Lowe, Elvis Costello and even the Kinks. This song would have dominated mainstream rock radio in 2001 if it hadn’t been on a Christian label. Not that there’s any message in the lyrics a secularist could object to. It’s a love song — or perhaps a love of life song — that never gets more preachy than, “It’s the opening of hearts that is the closing of the deepest wounds.”

10) Come On, Andy Hunter. Christian techno music is one of the hardest genres for non-Christians to get their heads around. If there are no lyrics, what makes it Christian? I’ve dodged the issue here by choosing a track that does have one shouted line: “Let your kingdom come.” Hunter, a British DJ, is equally at home spinning at worship services and in secular clubs. The deliriously propulsive “Come On” pops up regularly in video games and movie trailers (most recently for “Speed Racer”). Given how irresistibly energizing it is, that shouldn’t be a surprise, but somehow it is. Maybe minimal lyrics is what it takes for Christian music to get a fair hearing in the wider world.

http://papercuts.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04...-daniel-radosh/

I can personally vouch for his Top 5. I own all those albums except the Dylan one. I prefer the version of that song by Emmylou Harris from her album Wrecking Ball. And Over The Rhine might be my favorite band, period. Vigilantes of Love are very cool also. I have an old album of theirs, but not the one he mentions.

[lukeduke 8]

In a slightly different genre, Third Day has a lot of good music. They also put on a great concert if you ever get a chance to check them out.

[warjosh 0]

#6 and #7 are phenominal bands... both really break the mold of christian rock... i'm surprised this guy even knows about these bands.

[otterinbham 0]

I have listened to my fair share. You can't help it if you're active in a Southern church. However, I have to say that Christian Rock is, even at its best, watered-down and flat as a bottle of ginger ale that's been open for three days. And the very fact that you have a thread titled, "10 Christian Music Songs That Don't Suck" says a lot about the genre as a whole.

Why? Because, to me, "Christian Rock" is an oxymoron, a contradictory term. At its roots, Rock is subversive in nature. It questions mainstream and bourgeois values, one of which just so happens to be our faith. So what Christian rock has to do is satisfy two contradictory impulses, and becomes a compromise instead. To be honest, I've heard advertising jingles about dog food and real estate sung with more passion than 99% of the Christian rock out there.

Personally, I believe the best musical expressions of faith in Christianity remain decidedly classical.

[80Tiger 907]

I have listened to my fair share. You can't help it if you're active in a Southern church. However, I have to say that Christian Rock is, even at its best, watered-down and flat as a bottle of ginger ale that's been open for three days. And the very fact that you have a thread titled, "10 Christian Music Songs That Don't Suck" says a lot about the genre as a whole.

Why? Because, to me, "Christian Rock" is an oxymoron, a contradictory term. At its roots, Rock is subversive in nature. It questions mainstream and bourgeois values, one of which just so happens to be our faith. So what Christian rock has to do is satisfy two contradictory impulses, and becomes a compromise instead. To be honest, I've heard advertising jingles about dog food and real estate sung with more passion than 99% of the Christian rock out there.

Personally, I believe the best musical expressions of faith in Christianity remain decidedly classical.

Amen brother. Give me those Germanic hymns from the 1600's forward.

[AU_tiger_2000 0]

No Stryper? I thought every church going kid in the '80's and '90's had at least had one favorite Stryper song.

To Hell With the Devil

Sebastian Bach (Skid Row) talks about Stryper

[TitanTiger 21,162]

I have listened to my fair share. You can't help it if you're active in a Southern church. However, I have to say that Christian Rock is, even at its best, watered-down and flat as a bottle of ginger ale that's been open for three days. And the very fact that you have a thread titled, "10 Christian Music Songs That Don't Suck" says a lot about the genre as a whole.

Why? Because, to me, "Christian Rock" is an oxymoron, a contradictory term. At its roots, Rock is subversive in nature. It questions mainstream and bourgeois values, one of which just so happens to be our faith. So what Christian rock has to do is satisfy two contradictory impulses, and becomes a compromise instead. To be honest, I've heard advertising jingles about dog food and real estate sung with more passion than 99% of the Christian rock out there.

Personally, I believe the best musical expressions of faith in Christianity remain decidedly classical.

That's just the thing. Most of the bands above aren't CCM in the traditional sucky mode. They are artists that happen to be Christians and they don't restrict themselves to the same old utilitarian model.

Rock/pop music is not all sex, drugs and rebellion. It's often deep, political, personal...the stuff of life.

[otterinbham 0]

I have listened to my fair share. You can't help it if you're active in a Southern church. However, I have to say that Christian Rock is, even at its best, watered-down and flat as a bottle of ginger ale that's been open for three days. And the very fact that you have a thread titled, "10 Christian Music Songs That Don't Suck" says a lot about the genre as a whole.

Why? Because, to me, "Christian Rock" is an oxymoron, a contradictory term. At its roots, Rock is subversive in nature. It questions mainstream and bourgeois values, one of which just so happens to be our faith. So what Christian rock has to do is satisfy two contradictory impulses, and becomes a compromise instead. To be honest, I've heard advertising jingles about dog food and real estate sung with more passion than 99% of the Christian rock out there.

Personally, I believe the best musical expressions of faith in Christianity remain decidedly classical.

That's just the thing. Most of the bands above aren't CCM in the traditional sucky mode. They are artists that happen to be Christians and they don't restrict themselves to the same old utilitarian model.

Rock/pop music is not all sex, drugs and rebellion. It's often deep, political, personal...the stuff of life.

No it's not. But it's never the music of the status quo, something that undercuts the stance of Christians who almost always have a vested interest in stable social order. And, again, this article picks out the exceptions to CCM. I suppose, if I tried, I could find 10 Alabama fans who weren't complete idiots, too.

[TitanTiger 21,162]

I have listened to my fair share. You can't help it if you're active in a Southern church. However, I have to say that Christian Rock is, even at its best, watered-down and flat as a bottle of ginger ale that's been open for three days. And the very fact that you have a thread titled, "10 Christian Music Songs That Don't Suck" says a lot about the genre as a whole.

Why? Because, to me, "Christian Rock" is an oxymoron, a contradictory term. At its roots, Rock is subversive in nature. It questions mainstream and bourgeois values, one of which just so happens to be our faith. So what Christian rock has to do is satisfy two contradictory impulses, and becomes a compromise instead. To be honest, I've heard advertising jingles about dog food and real estate sung with more passion than 99% of the Christian rock out there.

Personally, I believe the best musical expressions of faith in Christianity remain decidedly classical.

That's just the thing. Most of the bands above aren't CCM in the traditional sucky mode. They are artists that happen to be Christians and they don't restrict themselves to the same old utilitarian model.

Rock/pop music is not all sex, drugs and rebellion. It's often deep, political, personal...the stuff of life.

No it's not. But it's never the music of the status quo, something that undercuts the stance of Christians who almost always have a vested interest in stable social order. And, again, this article picks out the exceptions to CCM. I suppose, if I tried, I could find 10 Alabama fans who weren't complete idiots, too.

Well, I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone of its worth. Like I said, I tired of it working in the industry and began to gravitate toward musicians in the mainstream. The Christian music I do listen to tends to be the ones on the periphery...mostly Christians who are in a band rather than "Christian bands." One is a person living out their life and that's reflected in their art. The other tends to be a marketing gimmick.

[BZ770 2]

Not trying to be a Hypocrite, but shouldn't all christian songs that glorify the lord not be termed "Sucky" After all someone wrote it about Jesus or God to glorify them and not man.

[TitanTiger 21,162]

Not trying to be a Hypocrite, but shouldn't all christian songs that glorify the lord not be termed "Sucky" After all someone wrote it about Jesus or God to glorify them and not man.

From that perspective, the motive would not be sucky. But evaluated from an artistic perspective, there is actually "good" and "sucky." Instruments can be played skillfully and with originality, and they can be played like a hack and ripping off another person's sound. Lyrics can be poetic and insightful and they can be juvenile and chock full of spurious theology or overly trite and cliche ridden. And from working in that industry I can tell you firsthand that songs about God can be written to truly glorify Him, or they can be written for other motives: fame, money, to impress other people, pride.

But just to clear it up, I'm not saying their motivations suck. I'm saying the artistic aspect of it often sucks. Because it does.

[Ranger12 53]

You and I will have to disagree otter. Most of my music is Christian rock. Rock music might have started out as a rebellious culture, but that is not what it is all about anymore, so I think it is completely legitimate to label the groups I listen to as rock. Like Titan said, rock is more of a mindset or how you express yourself, not just one of rebellion.

I look at that list and I laugh at all except Larry Norman and Bob Dylan. Sixpence None the Richer's "Kiss Me"? Give me a break. I can't stand that song and I never really understood how some saw their music as Christian rock to begin with.

As far as my favorite Christian rock songs go...anything buy Petra is awesome. They are old school and they never backed away from their faith or watered down their lyrics, which is something you see too many Christian artists do once they become popular. My favorite song from Petra is "This Means War".

I also liked Stryper, Guardian, and Whitecross. Of the current Christian bands, Third Day is basically the only band I follow, but there are songs from other groups that I like every now and then. I have seen Third Day in concert several times, most recently just a couple of months ago when I too my son to his first rock concert. We were on the front row and my son got several guitar picks.

I do agree with Titan that too many today are just imitators, but then again I think most of today's secular bands are imitators also. I just seems like rock bands of today, regardless of their genre, have a hard time being original. Heck, it seems like all you hear now are covers of old songs I grew up listening too, so they can't even come up with new songs anymore. However, I do agree with BZ770 and will not say that any song about Jesus sucks. It doesn't matter if I don't like the song, somebody wrote that song about Christ and that does mean something to me. I might not like the musical arrangement around the lyrics, but they are still words about my Savior, so I will respect that fact and the fact that others may get something spiritual out of a song that does nothing for me.

Oh, the single greatest Christian music artist/songwriter of all time, in my humble opinion, was Rich Mullins. Nobody can say that go was an imitator. He was a pure original and his love for Christ came across clearly in his music.

[TitanTiger 21,162]

I look at that list and I laugh at all except Larry Norman and Bob Dylan.

You shouldn't. The 77s were one of the best rock bands around and Over The Rhine is flat out mesmerizing.

Sixpence None the Richer's "Kiss Me"? Give me a break. I can't stand that song and I never really understood how some saw their music as Christian rock to begin with.

Because his (and my) whole point is that "Christian music" as it's been narrowly defined is about more than just Bible lessons and sermons set to music. Though we try, life is not to be lived dividing things into "secular" and "spiritual" categories. That's not Christianity, that's gnosticism. Kissing my wife is not just a physical thing, it's a holy and spiritual thing. Songs about life, pain, struggle, happiness...all of it is part of the life I live unto God. Whether or not songs about such things are considered "Christian" is not determined by the JPMs (Jesuses Per Minute) the writer employs.

However, I do agree with BZ770 and will not say that any song about Jesus sucks.

Artistically, it can suck, even if the entire song is just repeating His name over and over.

It doesn't matter if I don't like the song, somebody wrote that song about Christ and that does mean something to me. I might not like the musical arrangement around the lyrics, but they are still words about my Savior, so I will respect that fact and the fact that others may get something spiritual out of a song that does nothing for me.

And see, I think that if you're going to purport to write songs for God, then you should go out of your way to do it excellently...not ripping off sounds, not going for the easy and tired cliché, not merely viewing a song as some utilitarian means to and end, but viewing it as art and something that should strive to reflect the creativity of the God whose truth you're wanting to express.

Oh, the single greatest Christian music artist/songwriter of all time, in my humble opinion, was Rich Mullins. Nobody can say that go was an imitator. He was a pure original and his love for Christ came across clearly in his music.

Absolutely. Brilliant artist. Particularly his album A Liturgy, A Legacy and A Ragamuffin Band.

[otterinbham 0]

You and I will have to disagree otter. Most of my music is Christian rock. Rock music might have started out as a rebellious culture, but that is not what it is all about anymore, so I think it is completely legitimate to label the groups I listen to as rock. Like Titan said, rock is more of a mindset or how you express yourself, not just one of rebellion.

I look at that list and I laugh at all except Larry Norman and Bob Dylan. Sixpence None the Richer's "Kiss Me"? Give me a break. I can't stand that song and I never really understood how some saw their music as Christian rock to begin with.

As far as my favorite Christian rock songs go...anything buy Petra is awesome. They are old school and they never backed away from their faith or watered down their lyrics, which is something you see too many Christian artists do once they become popular. My favorite song from Petra is "This Means War".

I also liked Stryper, Guardian, and Whitecross. Of the current Christian bands, Third Day is basically the only band I follow, but there are songs from other groups that I like every now and then. I have seen Third Day in concert several times, most recently just a couple of months ago when I too my son to his first rock concert. We were on the front row and my son got several guitar picks.

I do agree with Titan that too many today are just imitators, but then again I think most of today's secular bands are imitators also. I just seems like rock bands of today, regardless of their genre, have a hard time being original. Heck, it seems like all you hear now are covers of old songs I grew up listening too, so they can't even come up with new songs anymore. However, I do agree with BZ770 and will not say that any song about Jesus sucks. It doesn't matter if I don't like the song, somebody wrote that song about Christ and that does mean something to me. I might not like the musical arrangement around the lyrics, but they are still words about my Savior, so I will respect that fact and the fact that others may get something spiritual out of a song that does nothing for me.

Oh, the single greatest Christian music artist/songwriter of all time, in my humble opinion, was Rich Mullins. Nobody can say that go was an imitator. He was a pure original and his love for Christ came across clearly in his music.

Well, I appreciate your point of view. Hey, I like Miles Davis. Not many do.

[TitanTiger 21,162]

You and I will have to disagree otter. Most of my music is Christian rock. Rock music might have started out as a rebellious culture, but that is not what it is all about anymore, so I think it is completely legitimate to label the groups I listen to as rock. Like Titan said, rock is more of a mindset or how you express yourself, not just one of rebellion.

I look at that list and I laugh at all except Larry Norman and Bob Dylan. Sixpence None the Richer's "Kiss Me"? Give me a break. I can't stand that song and I never really understood how some saw their music as Christian rock to begin with.

As far as my favorite Christian rock songs go...anything buy Petra is awesome. They are old school and they never backed away from their faith or watered down their lyrics, which is something you see too many Christian artists do once they become popular. My favorite song from Petra is "This Means War".

I also liked Stryper, Guardian, and Whitecross. Of the current Christian bands, Third Day is basically the only band I follow, but there are songs from other groups that I like every now and then. I have seen Third Day in concert several times, most recently just a couple of months ago when I too my son to his first rock concert. We were on the front row and my son got several guitar picks.

I do agree with Titan that too many today are just imitators, but then again I think most of today's secular bands are imitators also. I just seems like rock bands of today, regardless of their genre, have a hard time being original. Heck, it seems like all you hear now are covers of old songs I grew up listening too, so they can't even come up with new songs anymore. However, I do agree with BZ770 and will not say that any song about Jesus sucks. It doesn't matter if I don't like the song, somebody wrote that song about Christ and that does mean something to me. I might not like the musical arrangement around the lyrics, but they are still words about my Savior, so I will respect that fact and the fact that others may get something spiritual out of a song that does nothing for me.

Oh, the single greatest Christian music artist/songwriter of all time, in my humble opinion, was Rich Mullins. Nobody can say that go was an imitator. He was a pure original and his love for Christ came across clearly in his music.

Well, I appreciate your point of view. Hey, I like Miles Davis. Not many do.

Miles rules.

[otterinbham 0]

But do you like this?

http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/komar_melamid/K...nwantedSong.mp3

Mrs. Otter thinks I have a very, very strange sense of humor.

[TitanTiger 21,162]

But do you like this?

http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/komar_melamid/K...nwantedSong.mp3

Mrs. Otter thinks I have a very, very strange sense of humor.

No, that sucks. And I'm thankful that it has no association with the moniker "Christian."

[Ranger12 53]

I see the point you are trying to make Titan and on principal I agree with you, but there still is a difference between music with positive lyrics and music that praises the name of Jesus, thus the label of Christian rock. For instance, an atheist with high morals will enjoy music from Sixpence, Creed, etc., but they will probably not enjoy Michael W. Smith, Petra, or Rich Mullins.

Then again, some "Christians" are completely judgmental of anybody that listens to secular music at all and I have no time for people like that. There are absolute sins that are no-brainers, but I can't stand it when people try to play Holy Spirit for others. I listen to both secular and Christian music, but I also respect those that tell me that they choose not to listen to any secular music. For whatever reason it can possibly be a stumbling block for them and that is between them and God as far as I am concerned.

Be honest though Titan, if somebody tells you they love rap music and that is all they listen too, what is the first thing that comes to your mind about most rap? Then think about a person who tells you they love Christian rap, then what comes to mind? Lets face it, if DC Talk, when they first started out, would have never been advertised as a Christian rap group and would have been put in the same section of the store as NWA, more then likely DC Talk would not have ever made another album because teenage Christians would have thought they were the same type of group as NWA. Whether we like it or not, some things have to be labeled Christian or the wrong idea may be conceived.

This we may agree on...the Dove Awards is one of the silliest award shows ever made. Christian artists winning awards for doing something that is supposedly their calling from God seems silly to me. Why don't we make an award show for preachers while we are at it?

[TitanTiger 21,162]

I see the point you are trying to make Titan and on principal I agree with you, but there still is a difference between music with positive lyrics and music that praises the name of Jesus, thus the label of Christian rock. For instance, an atheist with high morals will enjoy music from Sixpence, Creed, etc., but they will probably not enjoy Michael W. Smith, Petra, or Rich Mullins.

Then again, some "Christians" are completely judgmental of anybody that listens to secular music at all and I have no time for people like that. There are absolute sins that are no-brainers, but I can't stand it when people try to play Holy Spirit for others. I listen to both secular and Christian music, but I also respect those that tell me that they choose not to listen to any secular music. For whatever reason it can possibly be a stumbling block for them and that is between them and God as far as I am concerned.

The odd thing to me about looking at things this way is that hardly anyone puts this kind of shackle on anything else in their life. In fact, I've never met anyone who took this notion that we need labels and we should only listen to "Christian" music and applied it to all the other forms of entertainment. They didn't just go watch Christian sports teams. They didn't restrict their TV viewing to the Christian channels. They didn't only watch Christian movies or read Christian books. They didn't only go to Christian theme parks or dine out in Christian restaurants. But music...heaven's to Betsy...somehow that's different. We've got to analyze it, decide it they say God or Jesus enough and label it "Christian" so somehow it's safe for consumption by good boys and girls.

It's time for Christian music as a marketing moniker to go the way of the dinosaur. There will be music continuing to be made for the church...worship music and modern hymns and such and to whatever degree such things are done excellently and not to jump on a trend, they will be edifying for the church. The rest just need to get out in the big bad world of mainstream and sink or swim. Get out of the self-imposed ghetto and mix it up with regular folks. If they are good enough, they'll be heard. And instead of preaching to the choir, maybe they'll be challenged to figure out how to communicate with folks that don't already agree with them.

Be honest though Titan, if somebody tells you they love rap music and that is all they listen too, what is the first thing that comes to your mind about most rap?

That while it may be art, it's a poor substitute for actual music.

Then think about a person who tells you they love Christian rap, then what comes to mind?

That they have terrible taste and should probably listen to Kanye or find something else to be interested in besides rap.

Lets face it, if DC Talk, when they first started out, would have never been advertised as a Christian rap group and would have been put in the same section of the store as NWA, more then likely DC Talk would not have ever made another album because teenage Christians would have thought they were the same type of group as NWA. Whether we like it or not, some things have to be labeled Christian or the wrong idea may be conceived.

Because we've conditioned them to think this way.

This we may agree on...the Dove Awards is one of the silliest award shows ever made. Christian artists winning awards for doing something that is supposedly their calling from God seems silly to me. Why don't we make an award show for preachers while we are at it?

They should shut down the whole awards show and use Gospel Music Week to give back to the community like raising money to buy instruments and fund school arts & music programs, fix up houses in poor neighborhoods, help the homeless and stuff like that. Then maybe those moral atheists would be willing to listen to the artists even if they did talk more explicitly about their faith. But that's the problem. We haven't learned to show rather than tell.

[tgr4lfe 220]

Titan, thanks for that list, I ahve been wanting to find some really good bands that have christian values I guess not in the mainstream. I will have to listen to these and see which ones I like. Some of my favorite songs right now are mainstream, "Made to Love" by TobyMac, IMO a great lyricist, several on Skillets album. I think Skillet is a great band!! Anyone else?

I do not listen to secular music hardly at all b/c when I am in the car my kids are pretty much in there also. They have already developed a love for music and I feel fostering that love into Christian based music is positive. As a teenager I knew nothing of christian music. It wasn't until I got to college at AU and some roommates introduced me to christian music that I fell in love with it. Secular musice has nothing for me, I know there are songs/albums/artists that are not stereotypical secular that have morally acceptable good artistic music, but I don't care to search for them.

Third Day and Newsboys have been long time favorites of mine.

[quietfan 233]

At its roots, Rock is subversive in nature. It questions mainstream and bourgeois values...

At its roots, Christianity is/was subversive in nature. It questioned mainstream and bourgeois values...part of the reason so many Roman emperors distrusted it.

And today, one might argue that many of its tenets remain subversive or anti-bourgeois in nature: Care for the poor; an almost communist philosophy of economics; non-violence and "turning the other cheek"; the dangers of wealth ("...camel through the eye of a needle"); tolerance for others of different ethnicity, background, or lifestyle; forgiveness; compassion for those in prison; he/her "without sin casting the first stone", etc. These virtues may get lip service in mainstream America, but how often do the ACTIONS of today's society actually reflect those ideals?

[otterinbham 0]

At its roots, Rock is subversive in nature. It questions mainstream and bourgeois values...

At its roots, Christianity is/was subversive in nature. It questioned mainstream and bourgeois values...part of the reason so many Roman emperors distrusted it.

And today, one might argue that many of its tenets remain subversive or anti-bourgeois in nature: Care for the poor; an almost communist philosophy of economics; non-violence and "turning the other cheek"; the dangers of wealth ("...camel through the eye of a needle"); tolerance for others of different ethnicity, background, or lifestyle; forgiveness; compassion for those in prison; he/her "without sin casting the first stone", etc. These virtues may get lip service in mainstream America, but how often do the ACTIONS of today's society actually reflect those ideals?

You're right in one regard. Christianity may have been the most successful subversive movement of all time--for about 300 years. Then, with Constantine, everything changed. Then Christianity became very much the faith of Western society, one of its stable foundations. And it's been pretty much that way ever since.

[bojack34 2]

I could go on all day about some of my favorite Christian artists but here are a few of my favorites. Kutless, Third Day, Petra, 4Him, Rich Mullins, Casting Crowns, DC Talk, Toby Mac, Seventh Day Slumber, Carmen.