Jim Crow County,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Tigermike 4,309]

Archibald: The south's trying to do it again

Posted by John Archibald -- The Birmingham News February 15, 2009 1:01 AM

With all this talk of secession, I think I hear the dulcet tones of "Dixie."

Look away. Look away. Look away. Over the Mountain.

Yep, Hoover Mayor Tony Petelos dropped a spark last week when he mentioned, on impulse, the thought of Hoover seceding from Jefferson County. But the idea took hold like a wildfire.

And that was just the start. There has even been talk of Hoover, Mountain Brook, Homewood and Vestavia Hills pulling together to form their own county -- where nine of 10 people would be white and median income would triple that of Birmingham.

I can't say what's in their hearts. I just know the bottom line. And it sounds a lot like Crow

County.

Jim Crow County.

The cradle of Civil Rights won't try to go back to separate water fountains for blacks and whites. It'll have separate counties instead.

Separate but not-so equal? In 2009? It is a good idea only if the goal is to drive a wedge even further into the dysfunctional soul of this community.

Sure, we face a time of crisis, for these are desperate times. Potential Jefferson County bankruptcy looms, and stubborn incompetence leads the way. But seeds of hope are planted in desperate times. Aren't they?

In the 1960s, Birmingham leaders led by David Vann, anticipating trouble and embarrassment from Bull Connor, moved to change the city's government in an attempt to move Connor out and take a first step toward unifying the Birmingham area. The people voted, and chose the more moderate Albert Boutwell to lead. Even so, Connor clung to power long enough to etch the image of dogs and firehoses on the soul of the world. It was a good try, but dreams of One Great City died on the vine.

And divisions continued to rip us apart.

Dire times of crisis do often inspire changes -- but they have had mixed success.

Crisis in America in the '20s and '30s gave rise to FDR and the New Deal. Germany's crisis during the same period spawned Hitler.

The problem creating an all-white, all-wealthy county -- aside from the political, moral and Justice Department concerns -- is that it fails to address the real issues.

Despite what suburban ratepayers would like to believe, Jefferson County's financial problems were not created by the poor, or by Birmingham.

White Republican suburbanite Bettye Fine Collins is blocking county bankruptcy as much or more than her Democrat companions. White Republicans Gary White and Mary Buckelew had as much a hand in the sewer debacle as any commissioners.

And frustration over county incompetence is not limited to those in the suburbs, or those with incomes over $50,000. For heaven's sake, the Birmingham constituents of, say, Rep. Demetrius Newton are even more burdened by rising sewer fees and incompetence than those of Rep. Paul DeMarco. And they have to deal with Larry Langford's tax increase.

There is a tsunami of discontent across all of Jefferson County. Sadly, we do what we always have done. We retreat, and blame those different from us.

And in these desperate times, that is exactly what we don't need.

John Archibald's column appears Sundays, Tuesdays and Thursdays. Write him at

jarchibald@bhamnews.com.

http://blog.al.com/archiblog/2009/02/archi...ng_to.html#more

[BamaGrad03 0]

I live in Hoover. I understand EXACTLY why they want to pull out of Jefferson County...because the Jefferson County Commission is run by a bunch of self-serving, crooked, RACIST lunatics.

This sewer crisis is making us the laughing stock of the country. And they REFUSE to come together with a plan that doesn't involve giving kickbacks to people to represent them, or to lobby for them, or to litigate for them.

I want no part of the County Commission. Hoover is an AMAZINGLY well run city. The Mayor and the people running Hoover are all incredibly fiscally responsible.

You can cry all you want about "white-flight" or people not wanting to be associated with the City of Bham or JeffCo. But the leaders are the reason.

Does Langford take $ and post more officers at 5 points where people are being MURDERED/ROBBED/RAPED on a weekly basis? No, he takes a quarter-mill to try and court the freaking Olympics.

So poor leadership and infighting is supposed to go rewarded? All the outlying cities do their jobs, run their cities, and they have to be PUNISHED by being called RACIST because they don't want their citizens to be affected by the foolish actions coming out of JeffCo?

Yeah, that's fair.

[Tigermike 4,309]

I live in Hoover. I understand EXACTLY why they want to pull out of Jefferson County...because the Jefferson County Commission is run by a bunch of self-serving, crooked, RACIST lunatics.

This sewer crisis is making us the laughing stock of the country. And they REFUSE to come together with a plan that doesn't involve giving kickbacks to people to represent them, or to lobby for them, or to litigate for them.

I want no part of the County Commission. Hoover is an AMAZINGLY well run city. The Mayor and the people running Hoover are all incredibly fiscally responsible.

You can cry all you want about "white-flight" or people not wanting to be associated with the City of Bham or JeffCo. But the leaders are the reason.

Does Langford take $ and post more officers at 5 points where people are being MURDERED/ROBBED/RAPED on a weekly basis? No, he takes a quarter-mill to try and court the freaking Olympics.

So poor leadership and infighting is supposed to go rewarded? All the outlying cities do their jobs, run their cities, and they have to be PUNISHED by being called RACIST because they don't want their citizens to be affected by the foolish actions coming out of JeffCo?

Yeah, that's fair.

BG that is total BS. The "white-flight" started long before Lagford had anything to do with the city of Birmingham or the city of Fairfield for that matter. It started long before you moved to Hoover from Tuscaloosa and if you grew up in Hoover it started long before you were born.

In fact John Archibald is spot on with this article and your straw man argument doesn't hold water. No where does he even come close to implying that the city of Hoover is not fiscally responsible. Do the people of Hoover have a representative on the County Commission? Yes they do. In the past has that representative been involved with the sewer and water board fiasco? Yes he or she has.

No one has said poor leadership and infighting is supposed to go rewarded. In fact I have said on this forum that the mayor and city counsel should all be drummed out of office and most likely put in jai. The same for the county commission. The same for the water & sewer board. But with all that said, John Archibald is spot on with this article.

[autigeremt 7,551]

I hope your side of the state can get this all worked out. I can understand both sides of this issue, but I tend to think that division creates chaos.

But....I don't have any idea how bad this is or the issues in place, so I'll just stand on the side and pray for the best.

[BamaGrad03 0]

BG that is total BS. The "white-flight" started long before Lagford had anything to do with the city of Birmingham or the city of Fairfield for that matter. It started long before you moved to Hoover from Tuscaloosa and if you grew up in Hoover it started long before you were born.

In fact John Archibald is spot on with this article and your straw man argument doesn't hold water. No where does he even come close to implying that the city of Hoover is not fiscally responsible. Do the people of Hoover have a representative on the County Commission? Yes they do. In the past has that representative been involved with the sewer and water board fiasco? Yes he or she has.

No one has said poor leadership and infighting is supposed to go rewarded. In fact I have said on this forum that the mayor and city counsel should all be drummed out of office and most likely put in jai. The same for the county commission. The same for the water & sewer board. But with all that said, John Archibald is spot on with this article.

So you think the people in Hoover wanting to be in Shelby County instead of Jefferson County is racism?

Because that would be about the dumbest assertion you've ever made.

[Tigermike 4,309]

BG that is total BS. The "white-flight" started long before Lagford had anything to do with the city of Birmingham or the city of Fairfield for that matter. It started long before you moved to Hoover from Tuscaloosa and if you grew up in Hoover it started long before you were born.

In fact John Archibald is spot on with this article and your straw man argument doesn't hold water. No where does he even come close to implying that the city of Hoover is not fiscally responsible. Do the people of Hoover have a representative on the County Commission? Yes they do. In the past has that representative been involved with the sewer and water board fiasco? Yes he or she has.

No one has said poor leadership and infighting is supposed to go rewarded. In fact I have said on this forum that the mayor and city counsel should all be drummed out of office and most likely put in jai. The same for the county commission. The same for the water & sewer board. But with all that said, John Archibald is spot on with this article.

So you think the people in Hoover wanting to be in Shelby County instead of Jefferson County is racism?

(Not all no. But you know why Hoover is there. You know why Vestavia is there. You know why Homewood and Mt. Brook are there. Don't act like it isn't true. Are you saying racism had nothing to do with the build up in those areas?)

Because that would be about the dumbest assertion you've ever made. (Me? Surely ye jest.)

[AURainman 6]

White, black, whatever.

Hoover, Mountain Brook, etc. are fiscally responsible city governments. END OF STORY. You can argue circumstance if you wish, but Jefferson County and "Birmingham" couldn't be more different. Shouldn't that local government be able to decide what is best for itself?

Slapping a racist label on it and calling it as such is just a cheap way to make headlines. Pepper in words like "Jim Crow" and "Bull Connor" and your sure to raise some interest in your article. If all the people in Hoover were purple and green, they'd still want to break away from the corruption in the JeffCo system. It just makes good sense.

[AFTiger 282]

Well according to Archibald, if you want want responsible and honest government, you must be racist. If you want good public schools, you must be racist. If you think, Larry Langofrd is corrupt, you must be racist. Oops, Archibald thinks Langford is corrupt.

This is a long and tired argument that gets played anytime we get fed up with the circus in Birmingham. Let's get this straight. Birnmingham has the problem with racism and they need to fix it before they inflict it on the rest of us. I have a lot of neighbors they are going to be real surprised to find out that they are racists.

How does Archibald explain Black flight?

[OldNewby 27]

My wife and I left the Birmingham area in 1974. We moved to the country - Wilsonville - and from there to Titus. I cannot comment much on what has happened in Jefferson County since. But what I can say is "financial segregation" was happening then and still is. Those who can afford to move to an area with nicer homes and better schools, do. Those who cannot, don't.

[autigeremt 7,551]

And that seems fair to me. It happens all over the USA, and the world for that matter. If you are financially successful, you should be able to make your own choices. If not, then work to better yourself and move on.

[au2004ece 30]

BG that is total BS. The "white-flight" started long before Lagford had anything to do with the city of Birmingham or the city of Fairfield for that matter. It started long before you moved to Hoover from Tuscaloosa and if you grew up in Hoover it started long before you were born.

In fact John Archibald is spot on with this article and your straw man argument doesn't hold water. No where does he even come close to implying that the city of Hoover is not fiscally responsible. Do the people of Hoover have a representative on the County Commission? Yes they do. In the past has that representative been involved with the sewer and water board fiasco? Yes he or she has.

No one has said poor leadership and infighting is supposed to go rewarded. In fact I have said on this forum that the mayor and city counsel should all be drummed out of office and most likely put in jai. The same for the county commission. The same for the water & sewer board. But with all that said, John Archibald is spot on with this article.

So you think the people in Hoover wanting to be in Shelby County instead of Jefferson County is racism?

(Not all no. But you know why Hoover is there. You know why Vestavia is there. You know why Homewood and Mt. Brook are there. Don't act like it isn't true. Are you saying racism had nothing to do with the build up in those areas?)

Because that would be about the dumbest assertion you've ever made. (Me? Surely ye jest.)

I think it probably had to do with safety and crime in the city of Birmingham. Plus, the other places are much nicer, so people that can (with money) are going to want to live there.

I don't know this situation, but I can understand why they want to be separated from Birmingham. They are probably tired of supporting the dead beats in Birmingham, just as we will all get tired of supporting the deadbeats in Obama's new socialist America.

[AU alum 2]

BG that is total BS. The "white-flight" started long before Lagford had anything to do with the city of Birmingham or the city of Fairfield for that matter. It started long before you moved to Hoover from Tuscaloosa and if you grew up in Hoover it started long before you were born.

In fact John Archibald is spot on with this article and your straw man argument doesn't hold water. No where does he even come close to implying that the city of Hoover is not fiscally responsible. Do the people of Hoover have a representative on the County Commission? Yes they do. In the past has that representative been involved with the sewer and water board fiasco? Yes he or she has.

No one has said poor leadership and infighting is supposed to go rewarded. In fact I have said on this forum that the mayor and city counsel should all be drummed out of office and most likely put in jai. The same for the county commission. The same for the water & sewer board. But with all that said, John Archibald is spot on with this article.

So you think the people in Hoover wanting to be in Shelby County instead of Jefferson County is racism?

(Not all no. But you know why Hoover is there. You know why Vestavia is there. You know why Homewood and Mt. Brook are there. Don't act like it isn't true. Are you saying racism had nothing to do with the build up in those areas?)

Because that would be about the dumbest assertion you've ever made. (Me? Surely ye jest.)

I think it probably had to do with safety and crime in the city of Birmingham. Plus, the other places are much nicer, so people that can (with money) are going to want to live there.

I don't know this situation, but I can understand why they want to be separated from Birmingham. They are probably tired of supporting the dead beats in Birmingham, just as we will all get tired of supporting the deadbeats in Obama's new socialist America.

I don't know their exact situation either, beyond what I read in the newspaper, but my husband and I, and many other people, were tired of supporting Montgomery's deadbeats too, tired of the crime, tired of the taxes spiraling higher and higher, tired of the government getting worse every election, so we moved to Prattville. People in Montgomery are moving out in high numbers to Prattville, Wetumpka, Pike Road.

[Tigermike 4,309]

I think it probably had to do with safety and crime in the city of Birmingham. Plus, the other places are much nicer, so people that can (with money) are going to want to live there.

I don't know this situation, but I can understand why they want to be separated from Birmingham. They are probably tired of supporting the dead beats in Birmingham, just as we will all get tired of supporting the deadbeats in Obama's new socialist America. (There is much more to Birmingham than deadbeats. There are a lot of hard working and honest people.)

North Birmingham wasn't always the crime ridden, blighted area that it is now. Neither was Bush Boulevard. There are still some very nice homes in those areas. When they were built they were some of the nicest and biggest in all of Birmingham. What happened? Who moved out? Who moved and incorporated their own cities and towns? Why did they move? Just because a developer built the houses?

Well according to Archibald, if you want want responsible and honest government, you must be racist. If you want good public schools, you must be racist. (That’s not what he said and not what he meant.) If you think, Larry Langofrd is corrupt, you must be racist. (Nor is that what he said, in fact Mr. Archibald has been an outspoken opponent of Langford.) Oops, Archibald thinks Langford is corrupt. (Damn right he does and it has nothing to do with the color of Langford’s skin.)

This is a long and tired argument that gets played anytime we get fed up with the circus in Birmingham. Let's get this straight. Birnmingham has the problem with racism and they need to fix it before they inflict it on the rest of us. I have a lot of neighbors they are going to be real surprised to find out that they are racists.

How does Archibald explain Black flight? (His e-mail address is posted with the article, why don't you send him a message and ask.)

I don't think that is what he is saying at all.

For all of you wanting to find fault with John Archibald, it might help to know he has been one of the most outspoken opponents of and voices of change for the Birmingham and Jefferson County governments for a number of years.

About the Author

John Archibald is the metro columnist for The Birmingham News. His column appears three times a week on the Local News front. In it he tries to break news, to tell stories about politics, corruption or the quirks of daily life in the seven-county metro area. He has been called many things, but his favorite description came in a letter to the editor: "Public nag." Archibald is married with three children. He graduated from the University of Alabama and has worked at The Birmingham News for 20 years. Prior to beginning his column in 2004 he worked as a government reporter, investigative reporter and database editor.

http://blog.al.com/archiblog/about.html

Read some of his articles before jumping to conclusions.

[OldNewby 27]

About the Author

John Archibald is the metro columnist for The Birmingham News. His column appears three times a week on the Local News front. In it he tries to break news, to tell stories about politics, corruption or the quirks of daily life in the seven-county metro area. He has been called many things, but his favorite description came in a letter to the editor: "Public nag." Archibald is married with three children. He graduated from the University of Alabama and has worked at The Birmingham News for 20 years. Prior to beginning his column in 2004 he worked as a government reporter, investigative reporter and database editor.

There's the rub.

[Tigermike 4,309]

About the Author

John Archibald is the metro columnist for The Birmingham News. His column appears three times a week on the Local News front. In it he tries to break news, to tell stories about politics, corruption or the quirks of daily life in the seven-county metro area. He has been called many things, but his favorite description came in a letter to the editor: "Public nag." Archibald is married with three children. He graduated from the University of Alabama and has worked at The Birmingham News for 20 years. Prior to beginning his column in 2004 he worked as a government reporter, investigative reporter and database editor.

There's the rub.

I knew that would get a reply or two.

[au2004ece 30]

I think it probably had to do with safety and crime in the city of Birmingham. Plus, the other places are much nicer, so people that can (with money) are going to want to live there.

I don't know this situation, but I can understand why they want to be separated from Birmingham. They are probably tired of supporting the dead beats in Birmingham, just as we will all get tired of supporting the deadbeats in Obama's new socialist America.

(There is much more to Birmingham than deadbeats. There are a lot of hard working and honest people.)

Of course, there are. But they are being drug down by the idiots and deadbeats. Do you have any hope that Birmingham will fix itself? Do you have any hope that Montgomery won't become worse and worse of a place to live? I assume those that left or will leave both of those places are tired of fighting against it all and choose to go where things are handled correctly.

The article is ridiculous race-baiting. The difference in the communities is caused by wealth, not race. The racial make up is a result of the differences in wealth among the races. A person of any race can move to Hoover, Vestavia, Mountain Brook.

[Tigermike 4,309]

I think it probably had to do with safety and crime in the city of Birmingham. Plus, the other places are much nicer, so people that can (with money) are going to want to live there.

I don't know this situation, but I can understand why they want to be separated from Birmingham. They are probably tired of supporting the dead beats in Birmingham, just as we will all get tired of supporting the deadbeats in Obama's new socialist America.

(There is much more to Birmingham than deadbeats. There are a lot of hard working and honest people.)

Of course, there are. But they are being drug down by the idiots and deadbeats. Do you have any hope that Birmingham will fix itself? Do you have any hope that Montgomery won't become worse and worse of a place to live? I assume those that left or will leave both of those places are tired of fighting against it all and choose to go where things are handled correctly.

The article is ridiculous race-baiting. The difference in the communities is caused by wealth, not race. The racial make up is a result of the differences in wealth among the races. A person of any race can move to Hoover, Vestavia, Mountain Brook. (No one ever said people of any race couldn't move to wherever.)

I'm sure you are absolutely right no one ever left Birmingham and moved to Hoover, Mt. Brook, Vestavia, Homewood or Shelby County because of racism.

[autiger4life 3]

I live in Vestavia and went to HS at SPHS(Spain Park for those who aren't familiar). I have friends at Oak Mtn. Homewood, Hoover, Vestavia, and MT. Brook. As a school the only really segregated one is MT. Brook. My best friend is an assistant coach at the middle school and says it is insane how few minorities there are.

However, the spliting of the cities isn't about race, its about finances. The richer people want to be with the richer people. There is a correlation between rich and white no doubt, but that isn't the issue. Correlation doesn't equal causation and especially not here. Its about the money right or wrong. We had a black VP, and black SGA VP. It isn't race, its money. Both those people lived in greystone so they were accepted. Just as there were whites who lived in bad apartments who were rejected.

I'm not saying its right but its how it is.

[au2004ece 30]

I think it probably had to do with safety and crime in the city of Birmingham. Plus, the other places are much nicer, so people that can (with money) are going to want to live there.

I don't know this situation, but I can understand why they want to be separated from Birmingham. They are probably tired of supporting the dead beats in Birmingham, just as we will all get tired of supporting the deadbeats in Obama's new socialist America.

(There is much more to Birmingham than deadbeats. There are a lot of hard working and honest people.)

Of course, there are. But they are being drug down by the idiots and deadbeats. Do you have any hope that Birmingham will fix itself? Do you have any hope that Montgomery won't become worse and worse of a place to live? I assume those that left or will leave both of those places are tired of fighting against it all and choose to go where things are handled correctly.

The article is ridiculous race-baiting. The difference in the communities is caused by wealth, not race. The racial make up is a result of the differences in wealth among the races. A person of any race can move to Hoover, Vestavia, Mountain Brook. (No one ever said people of any race couldn't move to wherever.)

I'm sure you are absolutely right no one ever left Birmingham and moved to Hoover, Mt. Brook, Vestavia, Homewood or Shelby County because of racism.

It's their right to live wherever they can afford for whatever reason they want.

[Wishbone 0]

I think this is a great idea. Why should the people of these other areas being unfairly burdened by the people of Birmingham. Should the people of Hoover, etc. have to be financially burdened because they are white and the freelaoders should keep bleeding the taxpayers dry because they are black? Reperations anyone?

[Tigermike 4,309]

I think this is a great idea. Why should the people of these other areas being unfairly burdened by the people of Birmingham. Should the people of Hoover, etc. have to be financially burdened because they are white and the freelaoders should keep bleeding the taxpayers dry because they are black? Reperations anyone?

Damn I bet you are unhappy in Mobile.

Hoover

White persons, percent, 2000 (a) 87.7% 71.1%

Black persons, percent, 2000 (a) 6.8% 26.0%

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/01/0135896.html

Mobile

White persons, percent, 2000 (a) 50.4% 71.1%

Black persons, percent, 2000 (a) 46.3% 26.0%

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/01/0150000.html

[BamaGrad03 0]

I think this is a great idea. Why should the people of these other areas being unfairly burdened by the people of Birmingham. Should the people of Hoover, etc. have to be financially burdened because they are white and the freelaoders should keep bleeding the taxpayers dry because they are black? Reperations anyone?

Damn I bet you are unhappy in Mobile.

Hoover

White persons, percent, 2000 (a) 87.7% 71.1%

Black persons, percent, 2000 (a) 6.8% 26.0%

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/01/0135896.html

Mobile

White persons, percent, 2000 (a) 50.4% 71.1%

Black persons, percent, 2000 (a) 46.3% 26.0%

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/01/0150000.html

Honestly, I'm offended that you are saying (by association) that I picked where I'm currently living because there are fewer black people.

[Tigermike 4,309]

I think this is a great idea. Why should the people of these other areas being unfairly burdened by the people of Birmingham. Should the people of Hoover, etc. have to be financially burdened because they are white and the freelaoders should keep bleeding the taxpayers dry because they are black? Reperations anyone?

Damn I bet you are unhappy in Mobile.

Hoover

White persons, percent, 2000 (a) 87.7% 71.1%

Black persons, percent, 2000 (a) 6.8% 26.0%

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/01/0135896.html

Mobile

White persons, percent, 2000 (a) 50.4% 71.1%

Black persons, percent, 2000 (a) 46.3% 26.0%

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/01/0150000.html

Honestly, I'm offended that you are saying (by association) that I picked where I'm currently living because there are fewer black people.

Honestly, you should be offended that you would come to that conclusion based on my response to the guy in white robes.