AFTiger 282 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Is It Any Wonder The Market Continues To Sink?By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, February 20, 2009 4:20 PM PT Last Oct. 13, in trying to explain why the market had sold off 30% in six weeks, we acknowledged that the freeze-up of the financial system was a big concern. But we cited three other factors as well: • The imminent election of "the most anti-capitalist politician ever nominated by a major party." • The possibility of "a filibuster-proof Congress led by politicians who are almost as liberal." • A "media establishment dedicated to the implementation of a liberal agenda, and the smothering of dissent wherever it arises." No wonder, we said then, that panic had set in. Today, as the market continues to sell off and we plumb 12-year lows, we wish we had a different explanation. But it still looks, as we said four months ago, "like the U.S., which built the mightiest, most prosperous economy the world has ever known, is about to turn its back on the free-enterprise system that made it all possible." How else would you explain all that's happened in a few short weeks? How else would you expect the stock market, where millions cast daily votes and which is still the best indicator of what the future holds, to act when: • Newsweek, a prominent national newsweekly, blares from its cover "We Are All Socialists Now," without a hint of recognition that socialism in its various forms has been repudiated by history  as communism's collapse in the USSR, Eastern Europe and China attest. Even so, a $787 billion "stimulus," along with a $700 billion bank bailout, $75 billion to refinance bad mortgages, $50 billion for the automakers, and as much as $2 trillion in loans from the Fed and the Treasury are hardly confidence-builders for our free-enterprise system. • Talk of "nationalizing" U.S.' troubled major banks comes not just from tarnished Democratic Sen. Chris Dodd, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, but also from Republicans like Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and former Fed chief Alan Greenspan. To be sure, bank shares have plunged along with home prices, and many have inadequate capital. But is nationalization really the only solution for an industry whose main product  loans to consumers and businesses  has expanded by over 5% annually so far this year? • A stimulus bill laden with huge amounts of spending on pork and special interests is the best our Congress can come up with to get the economy back on track. Economists broadly agree that the legislation has little stimulative power, and in fact will be a drag on economic growth for years to come. The failure to include any meaningful tax cuts for either individuals or small businesses, the true stimulators of job growth, while throwing hundreds of billions of dollars at profligate state governments and programs  such as $4.2 billion for "neighborhood stabilization activities" and $740 million to help viewers switch from analog to digital TV has investors shaking their heads. • A $75 billion bailout for 9 million Americans who face foreclosure, regardless of how they got into financial trouble, is the government's answer to the housing crunch. Many Americans who have scrupulously kept up with payments are steaming at the thought of subsidizing those who've been profligate or irresponsible. With recent data showing that as much as 55% of those who get foreclosure aid end up defaulting anyway, a signal has been sent that America has gone from being "Land of the Free" to "Bailout Nation." • Energy solutions ranging from the expansion of offshore drilling and the development of Alaska's bountiful arctic oil reserves to developing shale oil in America's Big Sky country, tar-sands crude in Canada and coal that provides half the nation's electric power, are taken off the table. The market knows full well what drives the economy and that restraining energy supply will make us all poorer and investing less profitable. Taking domestic energy sources off the table makes us more reliant on sources from hostile and unstable regimes, breeding uncertainty in a capital system in which participants seek stability. • Lawmakers who seem more interested in pleasing special interests than voters back home now control Congress. Some of the leading voices in crafting the massive bank bailout and stimulus packages  including Sen. Chris Dodd, Rep. Barney Frank and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi  were the very ones who helped get us in this mess. They did so by loosening Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's lending rules and pushing commercial banks to make bad loans. Both Dodd and Frank were recipients of hefty donations from Fannie, Freddie and other financial firms they were charged with regulating. • Trade protectionism passes as policy, even amid the administration's lip service to free trade. Congress' vast stimulus bill and its "Buy American" provisions limit spending to U.S.-made products and will drive up costs, limit choices and alienate key allies. Already, it has triggered rumblings of retaliation in a 1930s-style trade war from trading partners, just as the Smoot-Hawley tariffs prolonged the Great Depression. Several European partners have begun raising barriers. Meanwhile, three signed free-trade pacts with Colombia, Panama and Korea languish with no chance of passage. Free trade offers one way out of our problems, yet it's been sidetracked. • A 1,000-plus page stimulus bill is bulled through Congress with no GOP input and not a single member of Congress reading it before passage. It borders on censorship. GOP protests of the bill's spending and the speed it was passed at were dismissed by Obama and other Democrats as seeking to "do nothing" or "breaking the spirit of bipartisanship." But voters are angry. Along with thousands of angry phone calls to Congress, new Facebook groups have emerged, and street protests have sprung up in Denver, Seattle and Mesa, Ariz., against the "porkulus." CNBC Chicago reporter Rick Santelli's on-air denunciation of federal bailouts for mortgage deadbeats attracted a record 1.5 million Internet hits. • Business leaders are demonized. Yes, there are bad eggs out there like the Madoffs and Stanfords. But most CEOs are hugely talented, driven, highly intelligent people who make our corporations the most productive in the world and add trillions of dollars of value to our economy. They don't deserve to be dragged before Congress, as they have been dozens of times in the past two years, for a ritual heaping of verbal abuse from the very people most responsible for our ills  our tragically inept, Democrat-led Congress. • Words like "catastrophe," "crisis" and "depression" are coming from the mouth of the newly elected president, rather than words of hope and optimism. Instead of talking up America's capabilities and prospects, he talks them down  the exact opposite of our most successful recent president, Ronald Reagan, who came in vowing to restore that "shining city on a hill." Even ex-President Clinton admonished Obama to return to his previous optimism, saying he would "just like him to end by saying that he is hopeful and completely convinced we're gonna come through this." • The missile defense system that brought the Soviet Union to its knees, and which offers so much hope for future security, is being discussed as a "bargaining chip" with Russia. This, at the same time the regime in Iran is close to having a nuclear weapon and North Korea is readying an intermediate-range missile that can reach the U.S. This sends a message of weakness abroad and contributes to a feeling of vulnerability at home. A strong economy begins and ends with a strong defense. All this in barely a month's time. And to think that more of the same is on the way seems to be sinking in. Investors are watching closely and not caring for what they see. Sooner or later, the market will rally  but not without good reason to do so. 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BamaGrad03 0 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I'm not one to defend Obama. But this is not a cause and effect situation. THe market was going to tank regardless of who took office. Using the market downward trend in recent months and tying it to Obama is about as foolish as using upward trends in oil prices and tying it to Bush's tenure. Link to comment https://www.aufamily.com/topic/56545-is-it-any-wonder-the-market-continues-to-sink/#findComment-583644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottomfeeder 244 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 It's more a crisis of confidence and trust, moreover who is in office. There is some affect, but little due to Obama's taking office (the stimulus will have a negative impact though, they are just printing to much money). I think most it's just coincidental, the Fed, Advisors, US Congress and the Treasury are the responsible parties here (I think the people are smarter than the politicians and advisors). The market will be the market regardless. I believe there is a correction taking place that will not bottom for some time. But, that is just my opinion. I'm betting a one to one ratio of gold to the Dow Jones (or close to 1:1). That to me would be the bottom. Nothing else would be a true correction in my opinion. The crisis in banking has distinguished depression from recession. The very term "Black Friday" comes from the Panic of 1869 when the mob was dragging bankers out of their offices and hanging them in New York. They had to send in troops to stop the riot. A banking collapse destroys the capital formation of a nation and that is what creates the Depression. The stock market is not the problem despite the fact it is visible and measurable and may decline 40%, 60% or even 89% like in 1929-32. But the stock market decline is normally measured in months (30-37) whereas the economic decline is measured in years (23-26). Beware of schizophrenic analysis that is often mutually contradictory or often antagonistic in part or in quality for far too often people think they have to offer a reason for every daily movement. Our fate will not be determined by the stock market performance. Neither can we stimulate the economy by increasing spending on infrastructure any more than buying your wife a mink coat, will improve the grades of your child in school. We are facing a Depression that will last 23-26 years. The response of government is going to seal our fate because they cannot learn from the past and will make the same mistakes that every politician has made before them. Even if the Dow Industrials make new highs next week (impossible), the Depression is unstoppable with current models and tools. There were, once upon a time, usury laws that generally held any interest rate greater than 10% was illegal. The Federal Reserve under Paul Volker believed that interest rates needed to be raised to insane levels to stop the runaway inflation, which was the first stone that hit the water sending the shock waves that we are having to pay for today. Once the usury laws were altered so the Fed could fight inflation, it set in motion the doubling of household debt, not to mention the national debt. At 8%, the principle is doubled through interest in less than 10 years. The national debt exploded from $1 to about $10 trillion in 25 years and household debt has doubled. Some states now consider usury to be 26%. Historically, these are the interest rates paid by the very worst of all debtors - the bankrupts. In fact, in China, the worst creditors historically paid at best 10%. What we have done is the lifting of usury to fight inflation back in 1980, has resulted in usury now being so high, a larger portion of income of the common worker is spent on interest, not buying goods & services that even create jobs. This is one primary reason why jobs have been leaving as well. The consumer needs the lowest possible price and labor wants the highest wages, and to stay competitive, producers leave taking manufacturing jobs as well as service jobs. The extraordinary rise in interest rates that are historical highs since at least pre-Roman times, could not have been possible but for the lifting of usury laws back in 1980 to fight inflation. This amounted to setting a fire to try to stop a brush fire that failed. Consumers pay the highest rates in thousands of years that feed the banks at the expense of economic growth. Even the National Debt rose from $2. 1 to $8.5 trillion between 1 986 and 2006 with $6. 1 trillion being interest. We are funding the nation on a credit card and destroying the economy simultaneously. This has been enhanced by the tremendous leverage and false position that were created in the derivative markets causing the banks to just implode. Indeed, this is the origin of the economic Depression we are facing. The $700 billion bailout might have worked if Paulson did what he said he would - buy the debt and take it out of the banks. Had the debt been segregated into a pool and managed independently by a hedge fund manager not an investment banker, we could have mitigated the problem. But that is now too late. The credit implosion is taking place on a wholesale basis around the world. The more the economy declines in housing prices, the greater the defaults, the greater the foreclosures, and the lower the economy will move. We are now in a downward spiral that cannot be fixed by indirect schemes. http://www.contrahour.com/contrahour/2009/...depression.html Here's an interesting piece: http://www.novini.net/2008/04/us-stock-mar...-1850-2013.html Link to comment https://www.aufamily.com/topic/56545-is-it-any-wonder-the-market-continues-to-sink/#findComment-583645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
au2004ece 30 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I'm not one to defend Obama. But this is not a cause and effect situation. THe market was going to tank regardless of who took office. Using the market downward trend in recent months and tying it to Obama is about as foolish as using upward trends in oil prices and tying it to Bush's tenure. Yes and no. The economic policies that Bush and Obama have put forward since September of 2008 are bad. Those that know anything about economics are pessimistic about the long-term effects of these changes. Therefore, the market has continued its downward movement. So, yes the market was going to tank anyway, but no you are not correct in saying that Obama deserves no blame for that. The market has or will hit lower marks than it would have with good policy coming out of Washington. Link to comment https://www.aufamily.com/topic/56545-is-it-any-wonder-the-market-continues-to-sink/#findComment-583647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexbo 104 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I'm not one to defend Obama. But this is not a cause and effect situation. THe market was going to tank regardless of who took office. Using the market downward trend in recent months and tying it to Obama is about as foolish as using upward trends in oil prices and tying it to Bush's tenure. Ignoring the stupid $1 trillion dollar socialist bill Obama just signed; I think his rhetoric of 'catastrophe' and 'unrecoverable' are alone the cause of at least 500 points in the drop. The economy is fueled by the individual free-market consumer, you and me; and he has convinced ALL of us not to spend a dime of our own money, to just sit back and wait for the 'government' to spend, and cross our fingers that it recovers... Link to comment https://www.aufamily.com/topic/56545-is-it-any-wonder-the-market-continues-to-sink/#findComment-583653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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