Touchdown Jesus No More?

[LegalEagle 22]

I thought you would want to know about a possible Supreme Court Case that may prevent Coaches from praying with their teams. The article promises more depth in tomorrow's paper.com.

http://tennessean.com/article/20090223/PREPSFACTORY/90223051

A case making its way to the U.S. Supreme Court could prevent coaches in public schools from praying with their teams, even if the players initiate the prayer on their own.

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The court is set to decide this month whether to review a case that banned a football coach at a public school in East Brunswick, N.J., from kneeling or bowing his head while his team prayed.

Policies vary across Tennessee, and a U.S. Supreme Court ruling could clarify the issue once and for all.

“I don’t know that we have a policy, but all of our coaches have been told that it’s to be student-led,’’ said David King, director of athletics for the Lincoln County Department of Education. “I go to a lot of the games throughout the county and the majority of them do have student-led prayer before the game, and some of them do after the game, too.”

Some experts say the law is already clear.

“There’s a pretty bright line here; school officials may not pray with students during their contract day,” said Charles Haynes, senior scholar at the First Amendment Center. “I don’t think the coach has to leave the room. He can just stand silently and watch. But he can’t participate.”

While acknowledging a 1962 Supreme Court decision that severely restricted the role public school employees may play in organizing religious activities, supporters of team prayers say banning any participation by the coach is an interpretation that goes too far.

“I understand that a coach cannot lead the prayer, but just to be there bowing his head? This violates a person’s personal faith…,” said Steve Robinson, Middle Tennessee director of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

He added: “I really believe that some of our founding fathers who drafted the constitution would turn over in their grave if they knew that we were debating this. I don’t believe this was their intent whatsoever.”

Check Tennessean.com tomorrow for an in-depth report on the issue.

[Roll Tide Rev 63]

That's ridiculous!

People need to look around and see that America is in the shape it is in because we are taking Christ/God out of everything.

[CircleDrill 180]

Amazing with all that is going on in the world and this country today, that THIS is how people are spending their energy.

Just.....wow.

[TitanTiger 22,251]

I was going to say, there are a lot of problems today with schools, athletes, teenagers and college students and the things that happen when those things are all combined. Whether a coach stands silently, leaves the room or somehow "participates" in a prayer is somewhere around #991,145 on the list of things worth clogging up the court system with.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

That's ridiculous!

People need to look around and see that America is in the shape it is in because we are taking Christ/God out of everything.

I agree.

Six Out Of Seven

[IndyTiger 3]

That's ridiculous!

People need to look around and see that America is in the shape it is in because we are taking Christ/God out of everything.

Taking God out of everything is not the problem, it is just a product of the problem.

[PChamp119 96]

This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. Just f'n ridiculous. Sounds like you are taking away a personal judgement / a personal right from somebody. Is Brother Chette on a school's payroll? Does that mean he can't do his job?

[aubiescottie 1]

I'm personally not a very religious guy, but I would disagree with the possible ruling that a coach can't participate. In the time that we live in, it makes sense that the coach can't lead a prayer, although it still goes on plenty.

I believe a coach just needs to be sensitive to the beliefs of his players and make sure it doesn't affect opionions on the playing field.

[GoAU 1,708]

Makes you wonder why the ongoing assault against Christianity continues to gain speed - look at the moral erosion in our country over the past couple of decades and look at where we're heading.

It's time the moral conservatives in our country stopped being so passive and allowing themselves to be trampled all over.

[AUBURNJAC 53]

This absolutely makes me sick at my stomach. How come very small minorities are able to have their way on ANY issue they want? What a waste of time, money and moral values!

[AUBUBBA 0]

KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE EASTERN SKY!

[OldNewby 27]

Coaches are hired to lead, guide and instruct students in a sport. OTOH, coaches cannot lead a prayer or even bow their heads when a player leads a prayer.

Freedom of religion, I understand. Most of the founders did not want a state appointed religion like England. They wanted people to be free to choose their own religion (even no religion). They did not intend for any group, large or small, to be able to tell anyone how they could worship (or not worship). That would be a violation of an individual's right to freedom of speech, as well as freedom of religion.

As usual, politics complicates. It takes the simple and turns it into the complex. If one wishes to participate in a particular prayer, do. If one wishes not to participate in a particular prayer, don't.

[PChamp119 96]

Freedom of religion - aren't you taking away from the coach's freedom of religion by not allowing him or her to take place in prayer? That'd be my argument.

The ironic part to this post is "Touchdown Jesus" which is from a private university and this only applies to public universities.

[bigguy 1]

it makes some sense that coaches are not supposed to initiate a group prayer, but it really makes no sense that they cannot themselves participate in a prayer initiated by the players. in any event, how in the world do you police this?

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

Hate to say it but this decision makes sense to me.

Just cause I think of what I read here few years ago, least I think it was here. That about Renfro and his prayer meetings and while stated as not mandatory was reported coming from players that non participation did have a role in their participation on the field... or lack of.

[tgr4lfe 220]

Freedom of religion - aren't you taking away from the coach's freedom of religion by not allowing him or her to take place in prayer? That'd be my argument.

This is exactly spot on!!!! This is what is happening all over!! The minority that don't like/believe/whatever in prayer/God think it is their right to be able to restrict the freedom of religion of others. It's the leftist way to erode the fabric of America!!

[PChamp119 96]

Texan4Auburn...

I would agree with what you stated and perhaps that is when it should come into play. But in general, it is just crazy stupid. Imagine if your Priest / Pastor / Reverend excluded you from church on a Sunday / Saturday because of your job. It's just stupid.

What happens when a coach's player gets seriously hurt on the field? He has to show no feelings? What if that player was a relative of the coach?

I bet Saban gets around this one too. My guess - when a team "huddles" in the pregame and the players put their helmets in the air, it's really a prayer! Or when Richt has his team do his huddle where they put their hands on their ears and bark or whatever - ha, turn it into a prayer.

Are coaches going to be forbid for saying "I just want to Thank God" when they win something?

[BoJtrueAUman 4]

This is the most rediculous thing EVER! Why can't a coach participate if they believe what thier players believe. Another reason why dumb places like the ACLU should be shut down. This country was founded on GOD I dont understand why the non believers can't deal with the fact that there are more of us than there are of them. As Christians we are going to have to stand up and really do something about this kind of stuff at some point.

['76 Tiger 108]

I am personally agnostic, but this allergy to christianity is sickening. If we don't take the position that all persons are created in the image of God, we are on the slippery slope.

The constitutional ban on an established religion means we cannot tax you and give the money to a church. If we violate that, I will lock and load. This assault on any religion that in any any way is supported by government is absurd in a society in which government taxes and pays for everything.

WDE!

Bob in Winter Haven, FL

PS: Only 6 months to the season of the Nip Girl!

[SouthLink02 8]

People need to look around and see that America is in the shape it is in because we are taking Christ/God out of everything.

So, UGA didn't win the NC because I didn't pray enough?

I did forget to pray before the Bama game so maybe that is why we didn't beat you all.

[Grumps 3,706]

What about the coach's rights? Does the coach not have the right to close his eyes when he wants? I want to see that enforced!

OOPS! I somehow missed the second page of the thread and didn't see that my idea had already been expressed.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

Texan4Auburn...

I would agree with what you stated and perhaps that is when it should come into play. But in general, it is just crazy stupid. Imagine if your Priest / Pastor / Reverend excluded you from church on a Sunday / Saturday because of your job. It's just stupid.

What happens when a coach's player gets seriously hurt on the field? He has to show no feelings? What if that player was a relative of the coach?

I bet Saban gets around this one too. My guess - when a team "huddles" in the pregame and the players put their helmets in the air, it's really a prayer! Or when Richt has his team do his huddle where they put their hands on their ears and bark or whatever - ha, turn it into a prayer.

Are coaches going to be forbid for saying "I just want to Thank God" when they win something?

I think its silly myself to be honest. I just kinda see where they are coming from.

[kingfish 76]

Somehow as a Christian, this does not surprise me. When it is OK to pass out condoms to school children, but at the same school forbidden to pass out Bibles in some of these same schools is it any wonder? In many schools one can talk about almost anything, but heaven forbid we should mention the name of the Lord Jesus Christ ... let alone say a prayer in His name.

26 For you see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yes, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in His presence. -- 1 Cor 1:26-29

What this passage says to me is that those who think more highly of themselves than they should and their "superior" intelligence, ablilities, or anything else that causes them to be proud and not humble will never understand the ways of God ... for it is foolishness to them.

It is only when one recognizes his need for God that the doorway to their hearts can be opened and the truth of the Gospel gain access.

[quietfan 233]

Actually, seems to me the opponents to such coach participation in student-led prayer in the locker room are focusing on a less significant concern (in their belief system) than the more blatant public practice of official prayers/invocations still common at the start of school athletic events and commencement exercises. There you have official acknowledgement and school-sponsered use of public address systems to lead a public prayer--admittedly usually by a local pastor, not a school official, but clearly endorsed and supported by the school administration. Why not go after that first, rather than less intrusive student-led prayers in the relative privacy of a team meeting?

As for my personal beliefs (Note: "personal", as in not intending to suggest what others should do/feel):

1) I don't want any representative of the state instructing me or others in religious practice, period, even if only to the extent of saying "Okay, now it's time for you to do your own praying".

2) I'm also not a fan of public prayer anyway, prefering to practice my Christianity along the lines of Jesus' commandment to pray in private , "in the closet". When I'm talking one-on-one to God, I don't want or need eavesdroppers--any more than I need the public or strangers listening in on personal conversations between me and any of my other dear friends.

In any case, I pray any time, anywhere I damn feel like it--but privately, to myself. That, at least, has always been protected by the Supreme Court...not that it would stop me if they tried to ban it!

[IndyTiger 3]

When it is OK to pass out condoms to school children, but at the same school forbidden to pass out Bibles in some of these same schools is it any wonder?

You are out of touch man. I think it is wrong to pass out bibles anywhere. I'm sorry, but I don't want someone pushing their ideals and beliefs on me, even if they are the same or similar. Sex Ed is very important and I think it is a good idea to have kids more aware, I don't see any reason to ban condoms.