Oh mcgufcm! Have you no memory?

[TennesseeEagle 0]

Let's tango!

Here's a comment you made on September 3rd and my response follows.

mcgufcm, on 03 September 2009 - 01:12 PM, said:

While I am certainly not a Jacobs apologist (I think he's done a terrible job, not only in football but also in guiding the other sports, which are almost universally worse than when he took over with the exception of women's basketball) NOR was I in favor of hiring Chizik (I'm talking myself into it, but I still say this feels more Zook-esque than Meyer-esque), I think it should be noted that Dooley is the AD of La Tech. If Jacobs spoke with Dooley about the job, he had the approval of the La Tech AD by implication. What's Jacobs supposed to do, call Dooley and ask, "May I have your (the AD's) authorization to speak with you (the head coach)?" Obviously not. In this instance, both accounts are perfectly reconcilable without an ounce of spin.

TennesseeEagle:

I don't understand why everyone has been down on the Gene Chizik hire. I mean this whole firestorm took me totally by surprise. Black, white or purple, I for one really wanted Chizik over Gill because of what he did for AU in '04 (and TX in '05). When Chizik was first hired, I read many heated messages from the Auburn faithful who wanted Gill, but I can’t think of one reason he would have been the better choice over Chizik.

Many have pointed to Chizik’s 5-19 record in his two years at Iowa State, but that isn’t a good reason to hire Gill over Chizik as Gill went 7-17 in his first two seasons at Buffalo? Chizik was starting 12 true freshman by the end of the 2008 season? He had a long term approach to play his young recruits early (and probably lose in the short term), so they would gain experience and hopefully improve for the next season. Turner Gill may have used a similar approach at Buffalo (I don't know), but he only averaged one additional win in his first two seasons - hardly an appreciable difference.

Here are the three reasons why I think Gene Chizik is and was the better choice:

1. Experience - While Turner Gill has three years of head coaching experience to Gene Chizik's two, Chizik has had (11) years of experience at (4) universities at the coordinator level. During Gill's 13 years of coaching at Nebraska, he was only a position coach, never a coordinator. Chizik clearly has the edge on experience.

2. In 2008, Turner Gill and Buffalo had their breakout year but only beat (1) team with a winning record? If you exclude that team (Ball State) the cumulative record of the other teams that Buffalo beat was 25-47. My point here is that it will remain unclear how good Buffalo has become under Gill until he gets more than one quality win. Are any wins in the MAC considered quality wins?

3. Recuriting – Having played college football (Florida) in the SEC and having coached mainly in the SOUTH, Chizik has deep connections that clearly give him an incredible recruiting advantage over Gill at Auburn (at the very least in the short run). Who knows how long it would take for him to meet all the high school coaches in our recruiting area who Chizik already knows from coaching/recruiting for MTSU, Central Florida and Auburn. Chizik understands SEC football and Gill understands Big 12 football. Gill played and coached for Nebraska before going NORTH to Buffalo (except one year with Green Bay – not sure if that was a coaching position). Chizik has coached mostly in the south during his career. Plus, he has already recruited for Auburn for three years from 2002-2004 and knows the high school coaches. Bottom line – Chizik came in and pulled out a top ten recruiting class for Auburn in spite of all the turmoil. Gill’s recruiting class was rated dead last in the country after his breakout year.

To me, either coach would have been a good choice for Auburn based on character. I think it came down to a close decision, and AU hired the coach that fits our needs the best.

Hey mcgufcm, want the link? You don't stand a chance on this one.

[mcgufcm 4,109]

I'm not shy about the fact that I wanted to go in a different direction. You've never seen me say otherwise. I never called the "worst hire ever" or thought it would be the downfall of Auburn football. I just didn't think it was the perfect move. Given a choice, I would've stayed with Tommy and hired a new Offensive Coordinator. So what are you trying to prove?

My point was, if Mikey or anyone else said something negative about hiring Chizik, they weren't unique. Tooting your own horn as a guy that thought it was the perfect hire (which your post does NOT make clear... you just thought Chizik was better than Gill) is just pride. Even if you thought it was the greatest move ever (which I doubt), you were in the vast minority. Trumpeting that over and over just makes you look petty. Not smart. Take that for what you want.

Personally, I was wrong about Chizik. I'm still 60/40 on Jacobs (he's officially reestablished the football team, but we have no idea what is happening in basketball or baseball or swimming, etc). I still think Turner Gill has a chance to be a good coach. If anything, we should recognize that Kansas is a ridiculously hard place to win. It's a small step above Iowa State so his record there really doesn't prove a great deal. I also think Derek Dooley is going to be a very, very good coach. I have no problem saying I was off on Chizik. His work ethic is unreal, and he clearly identifies with the University more than anyone realized. It seems strange to me that he left to Texas at all as much as he clearly loves this place. That was unquantifiable, and it makes all the difference.

I'll say again what I said before: Auburn fans should avoid being high and mighty on this. Our unity this season was one of the defining characteristics of the season. Whether you were right or wrong, let it go.

[TennesseeEagle 0]

I'm not shy about the fact that I wanted to go in a different direction. You've never seen me say otherwise. I never called the "worst hire ever" or thought it would be the downfall of Auburn football. I just didn't think it was the perfect move. Given a choice, I would've stayed with Tommy and hired a new Offensive Coordinator. So what are you trying to prove?

My point was, if Mikey or anyone else said something negative about hiring Chizik, they weren't unique. Tooting your own horn as a guy that thought it was the perfect hire (which your post does NOT make clear... you just thought Chizik was better than Gill) is just pride. Even if you thought it was the greatest move ever (which I doubt), you were in the vast minority. Trumpeting that over and over just makes you look petty. Not smart. Take that for what you want.

Personally, I was wrong about Chizik. I'm still 60/40 on Jacobs (he's officially reestablished the football team, but we have no idea what is happening in basketball or baseball or swimming, etc). I still think Turner Gill has a chance to be a good coach. If anything, we should recognize that Kansas is a ridiculously hard place to win. It's a small step above Iowa State so his record there really doesn't prove a great deal. I also think Derek Dooley is going to be a very, very good coach. I have no problem saying I was off on Chizik. His work ethic is unreal, and he clearly identifies with the University more than anyone realized. It seems strange to me that he left to Texas at all as much as he clearly loves this place. That was unquantifiable, and it makes all the difference.

I'll say again what I said before: Auburn fans should avoid being high and mighty on this. Our unity this season was one of the defining characteristics of the season. Whether you were right or wrong, let it go.

Thanks for owning up to your mistake about CGC. Also, I don't know what you mean about me "trumpeting that over and over". I never mentioned my original position accept in response to your post. Maybe you should read it carefully.

[sandyclawedtiger 207]

Man....I don't know where to start. I have been a member of this board for a long time. The date isn't even right. Actually when it was known as AUFAN.com. I don't post a lot but this calling out of fans for their opinions after a good year makes me sick. We are all family and we don't gloat we respect each other and let it go. I remember a thread started with ProudTiger talking about pride being a sin and thought it was unwarranted because his name had nothing to do with what I thought that passage meant. However, your threads, to me, have shown(again to me)what it means. Most everyone here has had an opinion about the state of Auburn University and right or wrong no one has decided it was their business to make that person explain themselves. Enjoy this season and be proud of it and scream WAR DAMN EAGLE as loud as you can whenever you can and just let it go. I could go on all night with this but refuse to. I just couldn't stand to let this go on any longer. War Eagle brother I love you all.

[TitanTiger 21,162]

For the record, this site has never been AUFAN.com. It has been WarEagleNation.com and then AUNation.com before the new owner changed it to what had been talked about for years...something reflecting more of what Auburn feels like and it became AUFamily.com.

[TennesseeEagle 0]

Man....I don't know where to start. I have been a member of this board for a long time. The date isn't even right. Actually when it was known as AUFAN.com. I don't post a lot but this calling out of fans for their opinions after a good year makes me sick. We are all family and we don't gloat we respect each other and let it go. I remember a thread started with ProudTiger talking about pride being a sin and thought it was unwarranted because his name had nothing to do with what I thought that passage meant. However, your threads, to me, have shown(again to me)what it means. Most everyone here has had an opinion about the state of Auburn University and right or wrong no one has decided it was their business to make that person explain themselves. Enjoy this season and be proud of it and scream WAR DAMN EAGLE as loud as you can whenever you can and just let it go. I could go on all night with this but refuse to. I just couldn't stand to let this go on any longer. War Eagle brother I love you all.

Ordinarily, I'd agree with your sentiment. We have all had our opinions and have all been wrong at times. This whole topic came up innocently enough with my poking fun at Mikey and was never about pride or my being right or wrong about CGC. mcgufcm wrote some pretty mean spirited posts at that time, and I never liked it and have never forgotten it. Some went way beyond disagreeing with the hire. When he chimed in on the topic, I wanted to make a point. Sorry to drag you all in on this. I'll take it up with him privately.

War Eagle!

[kingfish 73]

Man....I don't know where to start. I have been a member of this board for a long time. The date isn't even right. Actually when it was known as AUFAN.com. I don't post a lot but this calling out of fans for their opinions after a good year makes me sick. We are all family and we don't gloat we respect each other and let it go. I remember a thread started with ProudTiger talking about pride being a sin and thought it was unwarranted because his name had nothing to do with what I thought that passage meant. However, your threads, to me, have shown(again to me)what it means. Most everyone here has had an opinion about the state of Auburn University and right or wrong no one has decided it was their business to make that person explain themselves. Enjoy this season and be proud of it and scream WAR DAMN EAGLE as loud as you can whenever you can and just let it go. I could go on all night with this but refuse to. I just couldn't stand to let this go on any longer. War Eagle brother I love you all.

Well said SCT. Auburn is family which is one thing that sets us apart from the great majority. I sincerely hope we remain such unlike the UAT crowd which cannibalizes their own. Each of us has our opinion which should be aired without another in the AU family feeling superior because of a differing opinion. It has been well said that PRIDE is like a weed growing high atop a dung hill. This comment is not directed towards any person on this board, it is merely an attempt to air my addition to these comments as per SCT's above. I believe in all your Auburn people and also love you and enjoy this AU family site.

WAR EAGLE!!!

[WarTiger 4,014]

I don't understand the need for TennesseeEagle to continually point out other posters past opinions. There's simply no need for it. Is tennesseeEagle still in middle school? Now if it were an ignorant, and arrogant uater running off at the mouth like many of them do here, then by all means, fire away. But, to take shots at our own fan base just don't seem to be a good course of action.

[mcgufcm 4,109]

Tenn, I'm going to call you on that too. Nothing I said was mean-spirited. I'm glad to re-hash anything I said at the time.

(1) I didn't like the hire. Clearly, it's worked out well.

(2) I thought (and still think) Turner Gill is a rising star in the profession.

(3) I didn't think Jay Jacobs had a complete handle on his position, and I still take issue with the way he was selected. I'll say now. He's doing better. He's growing into the job, but I'll say this too: even if a final decision works, that doesn't mean the process of making that choice was necessarily the best process. I didn't like the way we went about selecting an AD after Housel resigned. Still don't.

(4) I thought (and still think) race had something to do with the way the whole thing played out. I didn't think it was the deciding factor, but I thought it had an impact. I also thought (and think) people who doubted that it had ANY impact were naive.

(5) I wanted Tommy to stay, and I was damn bitter that he was "quitted." (And I thought that term was accurate)

(6) I love Derek Dooley. I still think he's going to be a GREAT head coach.

That's about it. Look I wasn't trying to make people pile on. But this isn't the first time you mentioned your original stance. It's the first time you've posted it, but you certainly made it clear that you were "calling out" Mikey for his position. That lets everyone know you were on the other side. You wouldn't have gone out of your way to make that point if you agreed with him back then. I just thought the whole call-out was silly. I thought the thread on the football forum (why there? why not just here?) was silly. I thought this was equally silly especially when you're dealing with someone who has posted REPEATEDLY that I was wrong about my initial opinion of the hire. I won't post on this thread again. Sorry everyone jumped on your case.

[sam 0]

On the subject of Jay Jacobs, he's done a great job with the baseball team by getting Pawlowski. Barbee is still a questionmark at this point, however if he continues to recruit well (both Highschool players and transfers) he can eventually turn it around. Let's face it he has no talent to work with this year.

[OldNewby 27]

I have made many errors in judgment in my life. I will make more, without a doubt. I am grateful to those who overlook them and love me despite my mistakes.

[TennesseeEagle 0]

Tenn, I'm going to call you on that too. Nothing I said was mean-spirited. I'm glad to re-hash anything I said at the time.

(1) I didn't like the hire. Clearly, it's worked out well.

(2) I thought (and still think) Turner Gill is a rising star in the profession.

(3) I didn't think Jay Jacobs had a complete handle on his position, and I still take issue with the way he was selected. I'll say now. He's doing better. He's growing into the job, but I'll say this too: even if a final decision works, that doesn't mean the process of making that choice was necessarily the best process. I didn't like the way we went about selecting an AD after Housel resigned. Still don't.

(4) I thought (and still think) race had something to do with the way the whole thing played out. I didn't think it was the deciding factor, but I thought it had an impact. I also thought (and think) people who doubted that it had ANY impact were naive.

(5) I wanted Tommy it stay, and I was damn bitter that he was "quitted." (And I thought that term was accurate)

(6) I love Derek Dooley. I still think he's going to be a GREAT head coach.

That's about it. Look I wasn't trying to make people pile on. But this isn't the first time you mentioned your original stance. It's the first time you've posted it, but you certainly made it clear that you were "calling out" Mikey for his position. That lets everyone know you were on the other side. You wouldn't have gone out of your way to make that point if you agreed with him back then. I just thought the whole call-out was silly. I thought the thread on the football forum (why there? why not just here?) was silly. I thought his was equally silly especially when you're dealing with someone who has posted REPEATEDLY that I was wrong about my initial opinion of the hire. I won't post on this thread again. Sorry everyone jumped on your case.

That's okay mcgufcm. Maybe I deserve it. I love the Auburn Nation and don't want to cause anymore controversy regarding this whole matter. Just kinda got out of hand. Know what I mean? Take care.

[kingfish 73]

Tenn, I'm going to call you on that too. Nothing I said was mean-spirited. I'm glad to re-hash anything I said at the time.

(1) I didn't like the hire. Clearly, it's worked out well.

(2) I thought (and still think) Turner Gill is a rising star in the profession.

(3) I didn't think Jay Jacobs had a complete handle on his position, and I still take issue with the way he was selected. I'll say now. He's doing better. He's growing into the job, but I'll say this too: even if a final decision works, that doesn't mean the process of making that choice was necessarily the best process. I didn't like the way we went about selecting an AD after Housel resigned. Still don't.

(4) I thought (and still think) race had something to do with the way the whole thing played out. I didn't think it was the deciding factor, but I thought it had an impact. I also thought (and think) people who doubted that it had ANY impact were naive.

(5) I wanted Tommy it stay, and I was damn bitter that he was "quitted." (And I thought that term was accurate)

(6) I love Derek Dooley. I still think he's going to be a GREAT head coach.

That's about it. Look I wasn't trying to make people pile on. But this isn't the first time you mentioned your original stance. It's the first time you've posted it, but you certainly made it clear that you were "calling out" Mikey for his position. That lets everyone know you were on the other side. You wouldn't have gone out of your way to make that point if you agreed with him back then. I just thought the whole call-out was silly. I thought the thread on the football forum (why there? why not just here?) was silly. I thought his was equally silly especially when you're dealing with someone who has posted REPEATEDLY that I was wrong about my initial opinion of the hire. I won't post on this thread again. Sorry everyone jumped on your case.

That's okay mcgufcm. Maybe I deserve it. I love the Auburn Nation and don't want to cause anymore controversy regarding this whole matter. Just kinda got out of hand. Know what I mean? Take care.

TE ... I think we all know what you mean, I think we all understand, and I think we can all grow by it. That being said, why don't we move forward onto something else?

[tiger88 934]

I don't understand the need for TennesseeEagle to continually point out other posters past opinions. There's simply no need for it. Is tennesseeEagle still in middle school? Now if it were an ignorant, and arrogant uater running off at the mouth like many of them do here, then by all means, fire away. But, to take shots at our own fan base just don't seem to be a good course of action.

Yeah, the 1st thread I can overlook, but the second one is officially very annoying. A third would be nauseating.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Man....I don't know where to start. I have been a member of this board for a long time. The date isn't even right. Actually when it was known as AUFAN.com. I don't post a lot but this calling out of fans for their opinions after a good year makes me sick. We are all family and we don't gloat we respect each other and let it go. I remember a thread started with ProudTiger talking about pride being a sin and thought it was unwarranted because his name had nothing to do with what I thought that passage meant. However, your threads, to me, have shown(again to me)what it means. Most everyone here has had an opinion about the state of Auburn University and right or wrong no one has decided it was their business to make that person explain themselves. Enjoy this season and be proud of it and scream WAR DAMN EAGLE as loud as you can whenever you can and just let it go. I could go on all night with this but refuse to. I just couldn't stand to let this go on any longer. War Eagle brother I love you all.

IF I'm reading your post right, I would like to correct what you say. I didn't start a thread of even initiate a discussion about my name or that pride was a sin. Another poster (I know who but it doesn't matter now) said I should change my name because Proud indicated pride and pride was one of the seven deadly sins. I did respond to that.

TennesseeEagle seems very good at finding things in the archives. Maybe he can find the subject discussion (LOL).

[AU! 0]

You guys are right that calling people out makes things quite uncomfortable from time to time, but there are a lot of posters here with very very strong opinions. I am of the opinion that if you feel the need to speak out publicly against something then you should also be prepared to catch some flack if you are proven wrong. While multiple threads dredging up the mis-statements of long-time posters on this board is unnecessary, we should not chastise Tennessee Eagle for calling out those that are already making others a bit uncomfortable.

[sandyclawedtiger 207]

TitanTiger, thank you I stand corrected on my memory of how I ended up a member here and the evolution of the name to AUFAMILY and Proud Tiger, yes that's what I meant. Man, I got to not post after a late night poker game with lots of crown served. Now to check to see if I sent any texts to ex girl friends. WDE!!

[tiger88 934]

You guys are right that calling people out makes things quite uncomfortable from time to time, but there are a lot of posters here with very very strong opinions. I am of the opinion that if you feel the need to speak out publicly against something then you should also be prepared to catch some flack if you are proven wrong. While multiple threads dredging up the mis-statements of long-time posters on this board is unnecessary, we should not chastise Tennessee Eagle for calling out those that are already making others a bit uncomfortable.

I stand firmly by my chastising.

[jaredm2012 0]

On the subject of Jay Jacobs, he's done a great job with the baseball team by getting Pawlowski. Barbee is still a questionmark at this point, however if he continues to recruit well (both Highschool players and transfers) he can eventually turn it around. Let's face it he has no talent to work with this year.

Agreed. Baseball is doing very well, as is the swimming and diving teams. Football has obviously improved. I think, as a whole, our athletics program has been pretty solid under Jacobs' tenure.