CivilianTrials

[arnaldoabru 11]

How come the neocons have not posted this.....

http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/people/g/ahmed_khalfan_ghailani/index.html

[AURaptor 1,137]

Well, that settles it then. Civilian trials really do work, and we were all wrong to question Holder or Obama.

[AFTiger 282]

Well that makes feel safe. Life for conspiracy and not guilty for MASS MURDER.

[arnaldoabru 11]

Life is Life

[arnaldoabru 11]

Well, that settles it then. Civilian trials really do work, and we were all wrong to question Holder or Obama.

It's good of you to admit it.

[AURaptor 1,137]

Life is Life

1 gets life, while hundreds had theirs taken.

Where's the justice in that ?

[TitanTiger 21,077]

He likely would have gotten the exact same sentence even if he'd been convicted on all counts. The problem with executing this lunatics is that it turns them into martyrs. Life in prison in some ways more of a punishment because it denies them the glory of being a martyr.

[AURaptor 1,137]

He likely would have gotten the exact same sentence even if he'd been convicted on all counts. The problem with executing this lunatics is that it turns them into martyrs. Life in prison in some ways more of a punishment because it denies them the glory of being a martyr.

Whether they die by firing squad or of old age in captivity, they'll still be claimed as martyrs. Trying to placate nuts either way is futile, but killing him sooner will save us decades of having to feed, house and take care of this pos in the prison system.

[jared52 4,358]

He likely would have gotten the exact same sentence even if he'd been convicted on all counts. The problem with executing this lunatics is that it turns them into martyrs. Life in prison in some ways more of a punishment because it denies them the glory of being a martyr.

It's a whole lot cheaper to make them a martyr though.

[autigeremt 7,141]

He likely would have gotten the exact same sentence even if he'd been convicted on all counts. The problem with executing this lunatics is that it turns them into martyrs. Life in prison in some ways more of a punishment because it denies them the glory of being a martyr.

It's a whole lot cheaper to make them a martyr though.

Damn right it is....but arnold has no problem with seeing his beloved liberals spend more money.

The whole Martyr thing is silly....I sometimes think they do this as a way to keep themselves alive.

[TitanTiger 21,077]

True. But even if he'd been convicted of all of the things you hoped for, life in prison (likely in solitary confinement), was still the most likely outcome.

[CCTAU 3,482]

These guys should never see the inside of a prison. On an episode of Lie To Me, the guy convicted of murder was told that he would not be going to prison, he would be going to a mental hospital where they would make sure the drugs he takes rots his brain so that living would not even be living. I like that idea. If we have to feed, house, and clothe you, I want to you to be devoid of everything that resemble life.

But I much rather prefer that anyone convicted of murder to the point that the death penalty is warranted, be killed in EXACTLY the same manner that they killed....only slower.

I guess you could say I am pro capital punishment.....

[arnaldoabru 11]

He likely would have gotten the exact same sentence even if he'd been convicted on all counts. The problem with executing this lunatics is that it turns them into martyrs. Life in prison in some ways more of a punishment because it denies them the glory of being a martyr.

It's a whole lot cheaper to make them a martyr though.

Damn right it is....but arnold has no problem with seeing his beloved liberals spend more money.

The whole Martyr thing is silly....I sometimes think they do this as a way to keep themselves alive.

Nah, I just believe in something called the Constitution

[jared52 4,358]

Nah, I just believe in something called the Constitution

Really? Could have fooled me.

Seriously though, are you talking about cruel and unusual punishment? Is a life for a life cruel or unusual in your mind? I guess in my mind, the punishment should fit the crime, and mirroring the crime wouldn't be uncalled for either (except in the case of rape, who would want to be the one to dole out that punishment). I don't think you should slowing peal back someone's toenails for jaywalking, but if a guy kills someone, why is it unusual for the punishment to include death?

[TitanTiger 21,077]

The issue really isn't whether or not you think the death penalty is warranted. The issue here is that he got the same penalty he most likely would have received even if he'd been convicted of everything he was charged with. So the legitimate question to ask is, could it be that civilian trials will work out fine after all?

[AFTiger 282]

The issue really isn't whether or not you think the death penalty is warranted. The issue here is that he got the same penalty he most likely would have received even if he'd been convicted of everything he was charged with. So the legitimate question to ask is, could it be that civilian trials will work out fine after all?

Thanks to a judge that horrified by the verdicts. We will not be so lucky next time.

[jj3jordan 2,160]

They should be trying these guys in military tribunals, not civilian courts. The rules of evidence are different, and civilian rules of evidence are incompatible with the way evidence was gathered against these guys. When they get the right judge, he will acquit, set a precednt, and all the others will use it.

Also, Holder, when asked if he was worried they would be acquitted said "No, they will be convicted". It was almost like the fix was in, they had no chance. Why give a civilian trial if it is not on the up and up? That makes you look WORSE than using a tribunal.

Don't get me wrong, I think they are guilty and should be executed. Forget the martyringissue, their subhuman muslim brothers will still hold them up as martyrs. If you give them life, then you allow them unfettered access to our prisons where they can recruit at will. By recruiting, they will be reinstated to the 75 virgin reward when they die, lest you think they lost that when they failed to die in battle killing infidels.

[Aeronaut 0]

I think the civilian trials are a bad idea. Military tribunals would be quicker and probably better. In fact bringing them to the US was a horribly bad idea to start with. You don't bring s*** home to examine it, you examine it on location and then get rid of it. You can thank the previous dumba** govt for that act.

Now that they are here, something needed to be done to clean up that mess. Most of the countries where these people are from do not want them back. Habeas Corpus wouldn't let you just get rid of them or keep them in cells forever without any trials.

It costs more to execute a person then to keep him imprisoned for life. funny stuff there.

And only a hypocrite repubelickan will blame a liberal for this issue and the cost involved. It was the dumbya that brought these scums to US, and made a special (embarrassing) prison in 72 hours @ millions of dollars. HALF A BILLION dollars have been thrown at gitmo by dubya. Now what do you do? keep gitmo open and keep throwing money at the issue?

[TitanTiger 21,077]

If we're so sure that we've nabbed the right people and charged them with the right crime, why should we be worried about a regular civilian trial?

[jj3jordan 2,160]

I think the civilian trials are a bad idea. Military tribunals would be quicker and probably better. In fact bringing them to the US was a horribly bad idea to start with. You don't bring s*** home to examine it, you examine it on location and then get rid of it. You can thank the previous dumba** govt for that act.

Now that they are here, something needed to be done to clean up that mess. Most of the countries where these people are from do not want them back. Habeas Corpus wouldn't let you just get rid of them or keep them in cells forever without any trials.

It costs more to execute a person then to keep him imprisoned for life. funny stuff there.

And only a hypocrite repubelickan will blame a liberal for this issue and the cost involved. It was the dumbya that brought these scums to US, and made a special (embarrassing) prison in 72 hours @ millions of dollars. HALF A BILLION dollars have been thrown at gitmo by dubya. Now what do you do? keep gitmo open and keep throwing money at the issue?

GITMO is not the US.

I can't believe you would approve of trying these guys in secret in foreign countries but if so I'm impressed. It would be 180 out from your political bretheren.

It doesn't cost more to execute someone than imprison them for life. That's ridiculous.

I agree $500M is way too much for supporting these low life in the manner they are being treated. Bush definitely screwed up there. In fact I was not happy with very much of his spending habits. If you think I support that you are wrong.

So you are saying Bush made a mess at GITMO and Obama is cleaning it up by using civilian trials instead of tribunals? Is he closing GITMO or not? Was that just a campaign promise?

You seem to have a very deep hatred for Bush but I can't quite figure out what the hatred is based on. Can you explain? With facts not just insults?

[jj3jordan 2,160]

If we're so sure that we've nabbed the right people and charged them with the right crime, why should we be worried about a regular civilian trial?

The procedures for the trials are quite different. Rules of evidence and the like. Plus most are not US citizens, were captured on the battlefield although failed to meet the requirements of the Geneva conventions, but we give them anyway. No business being in a civ court where a liberal judge with an agenda can toss evidence captured through military methods, get an acquittal, and establish precedent.

[Aeronaut 0]

GITMO is not the US.

I can't believe you would approve of trying these guys in secret in foreign countries but if so I'm impressed. It would be 180 out from your political bretheren.

It doesn't cost more to execute someone than imprison them for life. That's ridiculous.

I agree $500M is way too much for supporting these low life in the manner they are being treated. Bush definitely screwed up there. In fact I was not happy with very much of his spending habits. If you think I support that you are wrong.

So you are saying Bush made a mess at GITMO and Obama is cleaning it up by using civilian trials instead of tribunals? Is he closing GITMO or not? Was that just a campaign promise?

You seem to have a very deep hatred for Bush but I can't quite figure out what the hatred is based on. Can you explain? With facts not just insults?

Let me explain something to you. Not everyone in GITMO is a proven bad guy. What do you do with the person that is found to be not guilty? His government wouldn't want him back he is our responsibility. You can't just throw someone in the sea.They are now "American citizens till proven guilty". And time in Gitmo definitely will be a motivation to join alqaeda even if he hasn't yet.

I've spent 2.5 years in AFPAK (Afghanistan-Pakistan) working in the field. I know how it is done the right way, and the wrong way.

I don't have any political brethren. I don't like Obama. I wanted health care reform but NOT what he did. I do not like his fiscal policies. I do not like his lack of backbone to stand up and roll some heads. However I really dislike Bush. Bush is directly responsible for a LOT of mess that we are in right now. Every damn thing he did was messed up. Afghanistan was bungled job. Iraq was a pointless exercise, done horribly, horribly wrong. Economy tanked right under his eyes. Corporations and banks got so strong and influential that they have taken America hostage, while these crooked bastards made Millions.

[jj3jordan 2,160]

GITMO is not the US.

I can't believe you would approve of trying these guys in secret in foreign countries but if so I'm impressed. It would be 180 out from your political bretheren.

It doesn't cost more to execute someone than imprison them for life. That's ridiculous.

I agree $500M is way too much for supporting these low life in the manner they are being treated. Bush definitely screwed up there. In fact I was not happy with very much of his spending habits. If you think I support that you are wrong.

So you are saying Bush made a mess at GITMO and Obama is cleaning it up by using civilian trials instead of tribunals? Is he closing GITMO or not? Was that just a campaign promise?

You seem to have a very deep hatred for Bush but I can't quite figure out what the hatred is based on. Can you explain? With facts not just insults?

Let me explain something to you. Not everyone in GITMO is a proven bad guy. What do you do with the person that is found to be not guilty? His government wouldn't want him back he is our responsibility. You can't just throw someone in the sea.They are now "American citizens till proven guilty". And time in Gitmo definitely will be a motivation to join alqaeda even if he hasn't yet.

I've spent 2.5 years in AFPAK (Afghanistan-Pakistan) working in the field. I know how it is done the right way, and the wrong way.

I don't have any political brethren. I don't like Obama. I wanted health care reform but NOT what he did. I do not like his fiscal policies. I do not like his lack of backbone to stand up and roll some heads. He's a chicken s*** pu$$%. However I really dislike Bush. Bush is directly responsible for a LOT of mess that we are in right now. Every damn thing he did was messed up. Afghanistan was bungled job. Iraq was a pointless exercise, done horribly, horribly wrong. Economy tanked right under his eyes. Corporations and banks got so strong and influential that they have taken America hostage, while these crooked bastards made Millions.

We agree on much then. Would you kindly express some solutions to our problems and issues?

[Aeronaut 0]

We agree on much then. Would you kindly express some solutions to our problems and issues?

Ron Paul for a quick fix, and a collective effort by us all, as a nation, to change our destiny. No more media anointed king. No more media queen. Find your leaders instead of choosing between who rupert murdoch or Disney wants as our ruler. We need to throw out both the parties, to tell them it's not their right to rule us.

Stop following / watching the stupid media circus, propaganda and brainwashing. Make these news businesses run out of business. Unless someone comes up with a "NEWS" station just follow news online.

It will happen. Revolution will come.