VAtiger12

7 minutes ago, ScotsAU said:

I get what you’re saying. But you’re over exaggerating. Gus’s recruiting was only bad in a few positions. He signed high rated QBs in 2018 and 2019. He pulled in great running backs and a good number of offensive weapons. His issues on offense in his last few years were a) poor OL recruiting, which really doesn’t work if you want to be a run-play action offense. b) Bad use of skill position players. He increasingly telegraphed a lot of plays by the players on the field and the formations we lined up in. For example, certain running backs would only come on the field in pass plays. 
 

Compare that to the two years with Harsin… Gus’s last class did not address our OL problem. But it was still ranked pretty high. Harsin’s classes were awful. If we’d had two more years of Gus, we would’ve probably won 2-3 more games this year, just because of skill position talent. And also, we almost certainly wouldn’t have lost Bo Nix to Oregon. Nix might not have developed as well as he has if he’d stayed on the Gus coaches team. But he would’ve been better than Thorne or Ashford.
 

 

The issue really is just how mind boggling it was that we hired a coach in Harsin who did not believe in NIL and was pretty 'meh' with the portal (probably also due to NIL) at a critical juncture in the college football landscape shift. Auburn has resources and a Coach that prioritized and supported those things would have still had us with B/B+ tier talent at a bare minimum in the SEC. 

I was told one of Harsin's positives is that we were competitive in every game. 

2 hours ago, Rednilla said:

When you put it that way, feels like the odds are stacked pretty heavily against Harsin.

This comment and what Metafour was saying is how I've felt about the Harsin hire in general. I did not immediately dislike an outsider, and I didn't even dislike the attitude adjustment that he brought. It felt like bringing in a bunch of his Boise guys and then hiring Mason and Bobo.. he did not bring an energy that I feel like a new coach in the SEC has to bring with him. Then with the changing landscape of transfers and NIL, a new coach's energy could definitely reshape a team much, much quicker than we've ever seen in the past. It feels like he's a guy who was expecting to build something for 5 years in a new landscape where you will be sunk in 2 cycles if you don't show momentum. 

If there's one thing I know from being an Auburn fan.. it won't be a cut and dry 3-9 record that gets Harsin fired or a 10-2 outstanding record that affirms his greatness. It will be somewhere in the 6-7/7-6 range with stretches of good and stretches of bad.  Everyone will take sides, recruiting will be bordering on great but likely ends up so-so. The Powers That Be get riled up again most likely. 

2 hours ago, Beaker said:

Quite true, but let's get that big commit and let the commits start recruiting others.

From what I am hearing on podcasts, the chance of having another losing season sounds highly unlikely.  Lots of synergy and most of the undercurrents created by players who were not really bought in last year are gone.  I suspect player's leadership will help a lot.  Players have been more vocal and leading more this Spring than last it appears.

Lots of good things going on ....

Uhh.. I mean I'm a positive guy but I wouldn't go that far. The depth and overall talent level on this team is a huge concern regardless of how bought in people are. 

My personal gut is that Ashford wins the job due to overall athleticism. And then I can see Geriner getting some chances during the year (hopefully). 

1 minute ago, W.E.D said:

This is my view

• Harsin is really abrasive.  There are a lot of ppl that don't like him & some didn't want him to begin with.
• There were legit complaints against him that needed to be investigated.
• The ppl that disliked him were excited about this & were more than willing to have him fired if proven
• It couldn't be proven & they don't want to drop another 18mm plus staff.

Unless next year is a disaster, I don't think he's going anywhere.  If it's late October and we just dropped 5 straight to PSU, Mizzou, Ole Miss, LSU, & UGA...AND have a disaster of a recruiting class I could see that drum start beating.

Thank you for the response. This is useful. 

1 minute ago, W.E.D said:

idk.  It's got to be really really bad.  He'll still be owed 15mm

So @W.E.D in your estimation did this mostly come down to money? That basically money folks/administrators were hoping that something would be found to not pay the buyout?  Because it seems like he's generally not liked and there's alignment that success will be highly unlikely. It had seemed like the consensus was he was "out" and now he's not. You seemed to have your finger on the pulse, in your mind did this come down to not wanting to pay buyout money? 

My vote is Jeff Grimes if it has to happen

29 minutes ago, soblfly said:

At some point we need patience to rebuild the program. If not under CBH then who? CBH is being judged by his ability to win with the leftovers from Gus. I think we should, at least, give him the opportunity to succeed or fail with his players and his staff. 

I mean ideally someone who is actually rebuilding the program? What would be the point in riding out 4 years with someone who is not taking us in a positive direction? That would be very damaging to us with the current SEC landscape. 

We had a great defense, and needed a new offensive philosophy/identity. Right now, the offense might be worse than it was under Gus. (Actually did break a record for futility at A&M this year) 

Lot of experienced guys stayed. That's the positive for right now. 

ASU had a worse offense than we did last year. In an easier conference. No reason he should have been in the discussion. 

1 minute ago, W.E.D said:

I think you're kinda right & your last point is a bit of a concern.  By having so many Super Srs guys come back, we're really top heavy.  When we graduate guys, we're going to have a massive gap of underclassmen and especially the '21 class which as to be down to near single digits.

 

I think in the new world of CFB though, a lot of that is going to get replenished with transfers. I know in the old world everyone said "You should have as few transfers/JUCO guys as possible" Because the thought was that it turned your roster over too fast but I think there's going to be more of a "year to year" roster architecting going forward. So even though we may be light I think it can be replenished with transfers. 

Again, Harsin needs wins to level this out a bit. Recruiting wins, on field wins, coaching staff wins, etc. 

16 hours ago, Old fan 47 said:

Yeah. We are going to need bodies though. This isn’t Boise Idaho. If this is the plan, then I’ve never seen a coach come into a major program and deplete it this much. Here’s to hoping BH really knows what he’s doing, because any depth is disappearing quickly. I see 2022 being worse than 2021, but I’m just going from what I’ve seen transpire thus far. I really don’t think the Feb signing day is going to help us any. The main difference to me is, Bama and Ga can afford to lose “highly touted” players, but we can’t. SC looks to be way ahead of us now and thats not even worrying about the teams in our division. Don’t get all defensive over this post, as it’s just an opinion from the outside with no inside knowledge, but this team outside of the starters we had come back on D, looks worse than last year. Here’s to hoping that our O line returnees have the best year of their careers. 

You aren't totally off base. We have lost some depth of bodies although there's an amount of this that is due to the whole extra Covid year. We had guys come back that in the past just flat out would have been unable to so that's part of the scholarship issues. It does seem like at present that after this next year we'll have a group of guys finally be out of eligibility that will mean we need to replenish a lot with the '23 class. 

We are top heavy at the moment but not in as bad of shape as it would seem. Bottom line is Harsin needs some wins to make everyone feel better. Recruiting trail, in game, etc. Any or all wins will be taken right now. 

22 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

- Battling every single game.  Even the UGA game, we played hard.  I couldn't say that at times the last few years.

Eh, I mean I like the sentiment but the blown leads in so many of these losses down the stretch just really put a damper on any 'battling' being done. Once in the Miss State game against a tough scheme that starts firing on all cylinders? Okay I can give that a pass but the way we finished (something Harsin preached) in 3 straight games to the end the season was just pathetic.

3 minutes ago, JMassie11 said:

We’re missing over 25% of our normal starters and in areas without much depth. Let these guys finish and see what they got. 2021 we got the see the difference in the mental philosophy with Harsin. 2022 we should start seeing the difference in the players. 

Genuinely curious, what was the mental philosophy shift? 

4 minutes ago, passthebiscuits said:

Nobody is advocating for a change. This isn’t about patience, as that’s our only option. We just have our eyes opened to the likelihood that things aren’t really going in a good direction.

When Saban lost to ULM, he had a National championship at LSU to trust and a record of great recruiting and team-building. Nobody—but nobody—questioned the direction of his program. What exactly do we see from CBH that gives us that security?

I promise, I’m not trying to be negative,  but I guess I’m trying to defend/explain the position of folks like me who are watching the gates burn and disappointed. We aren’t some insatiable, lunatic fringe of Auburn fans. 
 

I dunno. Whatever. War Eagle. Hope for the best. Hope I’m wrong. 

Yeah I completely agree with this assessment. No one wants to make a change after a year, but there's reason for concern and not a staunch amount of evidence to point to the contrary. This is a forum for discussion and that's what many of us are doing here is discussing the concerns that have arisen over the Harsin tenure to date. 

10 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Starting over every 3 years would be sooooo JABA. 

I mean - possibly. But do you see our PTB letting him go 6-6, 6-6, 7-5, 8-4 while he builds? I don't see it. That trajectory will get him finding a new home. 

6 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

In the last 5 years nobody in the SEC is beating Alabama and Georgia in recruiting.   LSU has been up there close and aTm is starting to make some noise at the top.   Florida has been in the mix before Mullen got there.   With that said, Auburn at best even on a great class would probably be 4 or 5 in conference. If you think that the last staff was bringing in top classes, what position group do you think was the best?   The only groups with top picks have been DL, CB and RB.   It’s obvious to me at least, that Auburn is never going to be a top recruiting hot spot, unless Saban walks through the door, and that’s not happening.   
Whether people want to admit it or not, every now and again, Auburn will get a great player(Bo Jackson) but most times Auburn is a program that finds the diamonds in the ruff type player and with hard work becomes an NFL player 

I disagree with this post. I think we should be angling to be recruiting at the 4th-5th best in the conference with the odd year maybe being 3rd best. If we want to be a top program we need to be bringing in the talent. No excuses. I think it's possible too. Chizik for all his faults had a plan that had Auburn recruiting the way it was supposed to be recruiting. 

There just is not a way to be more consistently a top program in CFB than by hoarding the best talent. There are other ways but it's the most tried and true. 

I'm happy to let Harsin work through all of this. He has put himself in a position where there will be no doubt he's doing it his way. It very much remains to be seen whether that will bear any fruit. 

I do think though that momentum is super important in CFB and the SEC especially - considering who we are fighting with every year. So I think if it really is going to be a multi-year rebuild he has to make sure he is showing positive signs of life relatively quickly or else the momentum will just be very difficult to turn. I don't think he's going to have 4-5 years to do a full rebuild. I just can't see the PTB riding out mediocre seasons until then. 

That one might have been left over from the previous staff

9 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

If we have multiple coaches on notice, then it was a really horrible evaluation and hiring of a staff by Harsin.

We're already dropping millions on coaching buyouts. If we wanted all Boise guys, he should have just done that from the start and saved a ton of money bc none of those guys would command high paying dollars

I don't disagree.. but is there a reason in your mind why multiple coaches shouldn't be on notice? One just got axed and as has been discussed, it's arguable if his position group was the worst... 

3 minutes ago, keesler said:

When Friend had yet to provide value to this program.  His oline couldn't block a G5 GaState team (1-3) AND that  oline recruiting is in the crapper with less than 3 months to early signing day. 

I suspect that Friend is probably on notice at this point. Especially since Harsin does have his old BSU OL Coach on staff as well

4 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Game Three of the Harsin Era. Close Road Loss to a Ranked Team. 

We have really improved since Harsin Arrived, and we were close here. We need a little more time.

What has Harsin done so far?
We have eliminated most of the stupid..
We have eliminated most of the stupid..playcalling. Trick play to start the Third Quarter was dumb as hell. Fumble that gave them 7 of the 8 point win. 
We have eliminated most of the stupid..penalties. We still get too many, but not like under Malzahn.
We have eliminated most of the stupid...decisions. 

We are moving in the right direction. But we still need to get rid of the Malzahn Era crapola.

Not sure we watched the same game..

17 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

He was shocked 

I blame a lot of that on the pandemic though. Routinely over the last few years we've had guys in great S&C shape and Russell was generally regarded as one of the best.