AUAlumnTN

2 hours ago, ScotsAU said:

Yet, look at the two coaches that have had the most success in the sec in recent years… 

Nick Saban lost to La Monroe his first year. Kirby Smart lost to Vandy and Ga Tech his first year. Both came into better situations than Freeze. Shula was a bad coach, but still brought in relatively high rates recruiting classes. Richt’s recruiting had been on par with ours at the time, and this was before Gus’s recruiting fell off (I’d argue largely because of Kirby smart). Neither of their rosters were decimated like ours is, and they still both had a year of growing pains. 

 

Sure, and my referencing historical precedent wasn't meant to imply that HF shouldn't be struggling right now. 18 coaches have made it to the SEC title game since 2000. The average record for their first full year on the job is 8-4. Most of them make the big leap in year 2. However, only 2 of those 18 produced losing records in year 1: Pinkel and Tubs. HF has his work cut out for him turning the roster around. My concern is that by focusing all of his efforts on recruiting and seemingly punting on producing a winning product this year that he's going to dig himself too big of a hole to climb out of.

I am of two minds on this.

On the one hand, the program and the roster were in a pretty sorry state when HF took over and it is going to take some time and patience to rebuild them. HF seems to be focusing the majority of his energy on recruiting, seemingly at the expense of the on-field product this year. I don't think that's necessarily the worst idea in the world as long as it work out.

On the other hand, there is overwhelming historical evidence that suggests that if a coach is going to make a splash in the SEC, they're going to do it pretty quickly. Since 2000, only five coaches have made an SEC title game without winning at least 10 games in their second full year on the job. One of those was the South Carolina version of Steve Spurrier and the most recent one to do it was Gary Pinkel in 2014. Only two of those five actually won an SEC title at that school: Phil Fulmer and Tubs.

All of this to say that if Freeze is trying to play the long game here, it very well could blow up in his face.

The read I get is that HF has essentially outsourced the lion’s share of gameday preparation, game-planning, and coaching to his coordinators and is focusing 80-90% of his energy on recruiting. I don’t think that’s the worst idea given the state of the roster but A. The offense in particular’s performance all but guarantees he’s looking for a new OC and maybe a position coach or two this offseason, B. puts enormous pressure on this incoming recruiting class to be very very good, very very fast, and C. depending on how the rest of this season shakes out, potentially gives him precious little goodwill amongst the fanbase and power brokers. It’s a bold strategy, Cotton. Let’s see if it pays off. 

6 hours ago, creed said:

Bad qb play is a symptom. What’s the main cause?  

Several: inconsistent o-line play, the absence of a dependable go-to receiver, schematic inconsistency, but I think most importantly, a lack of trust in the QBs (all of them). I don’t think HF or PM trust any of their QBs at the moment and that lack of trust shows. I think RA and PT are both playing “not to mess up” because they think they’ll get yanked the second they do (not an unreasonable thought). 

On 9/24/2023 at 7:33 PM, Gowebb11 said:

There’s a sad reality for AU QBs of late. Auburn is a graveyard for them the past several seasons. Jeremy Johnson showed great promise as a freshman and sophomore. By the time he was a junior he was terrible. Sean White was an Elite 11 guy and fizzled. Stidham had a really good sophomore year then regressed in year two at AU. (His best year statistically for completion % and TD/int was his freshman year at Baylor) Malik Willis was relegated to mop up duty at AU then became an NFL QB at Liberty under Freeze. Nix was very erratic and much maligned  at AU. Now a Heisman contender at Oregon. Finley put up solid numbers at LSU as a freshman, regressed at AU and is now thriving at his new school. Now a guy with 6000 yards and over 50 TDs is suddenly inept at Auburn. This is the third coach it’s happening under. It’s a terrible trend for Auburn and we’re not moving forward as a program until we reverse it. 

I think this is an oversimplification to put it mildly and I don’t think Auburn itself is the problem. The coaches Auburn chooses to hire on the other hand? 

Gus Malzahn is many things but a proven developer of QBs he is not. It’s been well established at this point that as his o-line/running game goes, so goes the rest of the offense/his QB. The only time he’s ever produced QBs with high octane stats were his two years at Tulsa and when had some guy named Cam Newton running the offense. His non-Cam, non-Nick Marshall QBs’ fortunes were entirely tied to the quality of their o-lines and the strength of the running game. 
 

The less said about Bryan Harsin’s time on the plains and his so-called “offense” the better. He and his staff, particularly the 2022 incarnation were so top to bottom incompetent that they probably set this program back five years. 
 

That said, Hugh Freeze and Philip Montgomery have a pretty solid track record of fielding good offenses. As painful as the Auburn offense has been to watch this year, I’m not doom and glooming this yet. They have a MASSIVE mess to clean up and it’s going to take awhile. In the meantime, it’s probably going to be pretty ugly to watch. 

IF (and this is a big if) Holden’s the starter going forward, PM and HF must make more of an effort to settle him into games through scheme than they’ve shown with PT. I would say that’s been one of PT’s biggest issues is that the playcalling has not helped him out very much. There has been a conspicuous absence of 1st down throws, screens, rollouts, etc. in the early part of games, plays that would allow whoever is playing QB to settle into the game. No matter who the starter is, the offensive structure needs to change to help them out.  

8 minutes ago, Maverick.AU said:

I will say about the oline, there have been times they have looked pretty solid (That hold on Britton was a load of bs), but there are also times they have looked really bad, mainly in pass pro.

Yesterday I thought they acquitted themselves well run-blocking. Take away the sacks and Auburn rolled up almost 200 yards rushing and Battie and Hunter were both averaging in the 6-ish ypc range. That said, pass pro I have no clue. On the one hand PT did get hit/sacked quite a bit yesterday but on the other hand I watched an aTm db walk up to the line of scrimmage yesterday all but wearing a sign that said “I am blitzing” and PT didn’t so much as look at him

1 hour ago, Cardin Drake said:

An incompetent QB doesn't go 10-1 at Michigan State.  It's not that simple.  Thorne did not have a good game, and missed some easy passes, but the pass-blocking was abysmal.  We have more issues than just QB on offense. 

2 Things:

1. Kenneth Walker III was the straw that stirred the drink on that offense. PT’s production dropped off DRAMATICALLY when he left. Also, the book on PT coming out of MSU is that he was fine when the running game clicked and everything stayed on schedule but struggled when he had to carry the offense, particularly on the road. Sound familiar? 
 

2. The QB’s play can in fact make an offensive line look worse than it is. For instance, taking too deep a drop and giving your tackles unfavorable protection angles, failing to identify blitzers and adjust protection/check out of plays accordingly, running yourself out of decent pockets, or holding on to the ball too long due to indecision. PT was guilty of almost all of those yesterday. 
 

I’m not saying Auburn’s o-line is going to contend for the Joe Moore award this season but I don’t think they’ve been as bad as some have claimed. 

1 minute ago, auburnatl1 said:

For a decade - 5*’s, 4*’s, 3*’s, transfers - doesn’t matter. I can’t remember a qb since Marshall that showed any improvement as the season progressed. Impossible.

Same, honestly. I’ve said for years that B- QB play would’ve turned several Auburn teams into contenders and it just hasn’t happened. 

19 minutes ago, weagl1 said:

We knew Auburn had a long way to go.  The deficiencies certainly showed up today.  I don’t think there is any use in talking about the QB position when they are playing behind an O line as porous as we saw today.  Joe Friggin Montana in his prime would look like crap playing behind that mess.  Ain’t nothing gonna fix it but recruiting and development.  I was hoping for a short term solution from what they got out of the portal and maybe they will get better as the season progresses but I’m not holding  my breath.  It’s lack of talent pure and simple.  

Honestly, I thought the line played okay to good enough. Take away the sacks and Auburn rolled up almost 200 yards rushing. I think the issue today really was the QB play. Not only did Payton Thorne miss open receivers, badly, but he also failed to ID obvious pressure off the edge and adjust/check to account for it. He was indecisive and his failure to pull the trigger caused him to either take sacks or run himself into no gains. An indecisive QB who runs himself out of good pockets and fails to notice obvious blitzers is going to make any o-line look bad. 

We don’t have a QB and we don’t have a real difference maker at WR. I didn’t think it would be this bad but I’m not super surprised that we’re here. 
 

Robby is who he is at this point. This is his fourth year at the collegiate level. Barring some sort of miracle, he is not going to undergo a Hendon Hooker-esque transformation into a competent passer and his best contribution at this point is either as a Taysom Hill-style gadget player or as the centerpiece of whatever HF’s version of the Nick Marshall/service academy run, run, and run some more offense is. 
 

The book on PT while he was a MSU is that he was a competent enough QB if the running game clicked and everything stayed on schedule but he fell apart when it didn’t. I think that’s a fair assessment of him now except now he doesn’t have a Keon Coleman or similar type of guy to bail him out. 
 

i think Hugh has one of two choices. Roll with Robby, lean on the run game and try to turn the remaining eight games into semi-winnable rock fights or start Holden, let him take his lumps and figure out who and what you have at QB and receiver going forward

12 hours ago, AUght2win said:

Just shows how awful Harsin was. Didn’t we have a couple games where Robbie threw it 40 or more times?

From day 1 some of us said we needed to lean on Robbie’s legs and basically run the Malzahn read offense. The last 4 games we saw it.

Saw the stat that we’ve rushed for 250+ yards in 4 straight for the first time since 2013.

Also shows that this roster is much, MUCH better than its record. 

On 11/19/2022 at 2:04 PM, mdp5150 said:

Go ahead and list the red flags for the candidates you like too 🚩 

Sure, why not: 

Chris Klieman - small school, Midwest guy for most of his career. Can he adjust to life in the SEC at this stage of his career? Also, is it worth it for Auburn to take another chance on another non-SEC guy? 

Lance Leipold - see above. Another extremely successful small school, Midwest guy with no SEC experience. 

Sonny Dykes - didn't exactly set the world on fire at Cal and in particular couldn't get it done against their rivals. A big reason for that was Dykes continually swinging and missing on his defensive coordinator hires. His success at SMU and TCU suggests he might have learned from his mistakes at Cal but it is worth noting. 

That said, these are my "names no one's mentioning" picks. Do I think any of them are serious candidates for the Auburn job? No. Would any of them be at the top of my wishlist? Also no. Do I think they might make excellent hires for another school now or down the road? Sure, probably not in the SEC but who knows. 

9 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

*only* Auburn people, after hiring disasters like Gene Chizik and Bryan Harsin, would turn their nose up at arguably the greatest coach in the game - whose won multiple national titles at a historically lesser program.

”I’d rather have Rhett Lashlee.”

Even if we could get him, I think there are rational reasons to pump the brakes on Dabo. He's been less than enthusiastic about NIL. He's seemingly outright refused to make use of the transfer portal. Auburn's current roster situation makes both of those positions non-starters for the next hire. He's a fantastic recruiter and program builder, yes but his background means he's also much more dependent on his coordinators for the Xs and Os stuff. When he had Brent Venables and Tony Elliott, no problem. His choices to replace those two this past offseason however invite quite a bit of scrutiny. Given the contract it would take to pry him away from Clemson, these are not small concerns. 

4 minutes ago, austudnt23 said:

Kirby will come in to resurrect the glory bammer days after Saban leaves or retires. Let's quote obvious Saban still a great recruiter probably second best to Kirby in country but his coaching is on decline along with his work ethic. Lets be honest what else does he have motivation to prove, dude has earned right to go out on his own accord and slack off if he wants too. Kirby will follow his old boss and mentor at bama write that down it is a sure thing.

Kirby Smart is 46 years old and has been at Georgia for six years. He is 4th in total games won in school history, first in winning percentage, already has an SEC title and NC on his resume, and appears on track to add another SEC title and possibly NC this year. He's arguably on pace to be the greatest coach in school history and you're telling me that this man, who still ranks 4th on Georgia's all-time interception list, is going to leave his alma mater to follow Nick Saban because.....why exactly? 

I honestly hope it's none of the names mentioned. I think there are serious, serious, serious red flags with all of them:

Luke Fickell - was born, raised, and has spent the entirety of his coaching career in the state of Ohio. Swap Ohio with Idaho and you've got Bryan Harsin 2: Electric Boogaloo

James Franklin - has spent most of the last decade as the Gus Malzahn of the Big Ten: wins plenty of games, loses a couple of head scratchers every year, and can't beat the titans of his conference, especially on the road. Thank you, next. 

Tom Herman - underwhelming at Texas. Under/unemployed since he was fired two years ago. I imagine there's a reason for that. 

Clay Helton - underwhelming (to put it mildly) at USC and a poor recruiter to boot. Talent pool-wise, USC is probably one of the five or so easiest recruiting gigs in the country and this dude beefed it. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. 

Dan Mullen - brilliant offensive mind, excellent QB developer but famously on the (badly) losing end of Kirby Smart's "there's not a coach out there who can out-coach recruiting" speech. Nope. 

For candidates that aren't being talked about, I would put Chris Klieman, Lance Leipold, and Sonny Dykes before any of the names mentioned here. 

36 minutes ago, Chaotic_zx said:

If true, would we care? I'm not saying Dabo is the answer. Some fans would never trust him. Would his heart truly be in it? The most beloved coaches in Auburn history loved Auburn for Auburn and then Auburn loved them back. Could he learn that? I'm saying that if he is truly interested, he has to be at the top of any want list regardless of his reasoning. He has a better resume and experience than any name I've heard/read mentioned. 

I think the more pressing questions for Dabo would be if his feelings on NIL and the transfer portal have changed? He's been fairly outspoken publicly against NIL and has pointedly not made much use of the transfer portal despite Clemson having some significant roster holes the past few seasons. To me that's a non-starter given where Auburn currently finds itself. 

There's also the matter of his coordinator hires. I don't think it's hyperbole to say that Dabo owes quite a bit of his success to Brent Venables and Tony Elliott. His decision to replace both of them with internal hires deserves quite a bit of scrutiny given their on-field results this year. 

1 minute ago, Mikey said:

Dabo wasn't very professional after his Clemson team snapped AU's win streak, was he? He is a full-blown jerk.

I can't believe I have to explain this to you this but there is a world of difference between a post-game soundbite and how they conduct their professional business off the field. 

7 minutes ago, woodford said:

This HOF coach would risk his legacy just to stick it to Auburn?

This right here. Coaches at this level are professionals, they don't think about these things the way most fans do. This is their career, their livelihood, and it is first and foremost a people business. People don't burn bridges over school rivalries, passionate as they may be. Dabo is one of the most respected names in this business right now. He's not putting that at risk because "he's got too much Bama in him" 

Coaching at Auburn IS difficult. You have to recruit against the best programs in the country. The schedule is one of if not the most difficult in the country year in and year out. The expectations are quite high. That being said, Bryan Harsin is the first Auburn coach in four decades who didn't produce an SEC title, undefeated season, or both. In the last two decades, Auburn has played for four SEC titles, won three, and played for two NCs, winning one. Three different coaches were responsible for those seasons. This is a program with ENORMOUS potential that has only barely been realized. The right coach can absolutely have Auburn consistently competing at the highest levels. 

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity" 

Or in this case, incompetence. I don't think Bryan Harsin is a narcissist. Most coaches at this level have massive egos and Harsin's no different. I think he's a man who's known nothing but success in his career to this point and is now not only being confronted with the knowledge that he's not as good at his job as he thought he was but is also being publicly flogged for it on a weekly basis. Of course he's flailing and lashing out. 

On 10/26/2022 at 11:05 AM, ScotsAU said:

if we win this weekend, even with a probable loss against MSU, we still have a shot at being bowl eligible with 2 winnable home games left. We could end 6-6. 

Either way, I think Harsin is gone barring winning all the rest of our games (Bama included), which isn’t going to happen. But 6-6 looks like less of a dumpster fire, and may help the next coach recruit a little easier. 

Thoughts?
 

At this point, the train is off the tracks. It's not getting back on, no matter how many games we win the rest of the way. The 15 extra bowl practices are always a plus but a. I do NOT see this team getting bowl eligible and b. I don't see us having a new coaching staff in place to take advantage of them even if they do manage to make a bowl

On 10/25/2022 at 9:55 PM, yeaauburn said:

I think Dan Mullen could be successful at Auburn. He hasn't forgotten how to coach.    

Oh yes, the man who was just run out of Gainesville a season ago for his lackluster recruiting and inability to beat Georgia is just the guy to fix Auburn's lackluster recruiting and inability to beat Georgia. 

17 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I don't think RA is a D1 QB. But that's just where I'm at now, certainly hopes he proves me wrong

With this staff, behind this line, is there any way to really tell?