Strychnine

I thought it all was rubbish, until you brought Marcus 78.

Ha! I take it you have an affinity for the bass guitar. Saw you brought Victor to the table in another thread. Add Stanley Clarke and you have a trio that have performed a few gigs together and are arguably the top of the heap for their respective genre.

The bass and I have had a love/hate relationship for the past few decades. My ability to maintain savings would be improved if I'd chosen to play the triangle instead.

I thought it all was rubbish, until you brought Marcus 78.

I've never seen the Christian patriarchy movement go out of its way to condone the husbands for having affairs against their wives because of their wives appearance.

I doesn't, and I don' t think that was what Ben was driving at. He's talking about the tendency within those movements to make wives so subordinate to their husbands that in situations like this they are required, expected or heavily pressured into staying in a marriage with a guy like this and even taking responsibility for his wanderings because they weren't sexually available enough, or didn't do all they could to stay attractive to him or some such logic.

There is a large local Baptist church that seems to have a sect within it that subscribes to and pushes such thinking, and it has swallowed up my sister. When she and her husband were having issues due to his indifferent parenting and infidelity, the wagons were circled and she was indeed heavily pressured into staying in said marriage. She was also heavily pressured to sever contact with her own family due to their "worldly influence" over her. The whole thing reminded me more of something I'd expect from Scientology (disconnection) than a Christian church.

I admire your loyalty and do not for one minute think that you want anything but the best for Auburn. As Auburn people we can agree to disagree. I have read many posts just like these over the last several weeks and we are not gonna solve all Auburn's problems on here. I agree with you about hiring a messiah as well. Auburn has never gone for the home-run hire before and doubt they would this time either. But, without taking a chance where will we be in two more years?? Four of the last five seasons we have not beaten Arky, LSU, UGA or uat. One of those is on TT. The other three are on Chizik. If Auburn was just losing games I could live with that, but we are losing while looking lost half the time. Watch bammer play, watch UF play, watch Notre Dame for heavens sake, they all play with DISCIPLINE. I havn't seen that from Auburn during Chizik's whole time and that bothers me the most. The original questions on this post had to with youth and attrition and things like that, and the answer is always on the head coach. We can't blame TT anymore.

In bold is the reason I asked the question that I asked.

"OnthePlains" In my view the 2010 team greatly over-achieved.

It was Cam and Nick and a bunch of other guys. Look now, two years later and how many of those 26 seniors are even on NFL squads, much less playing regularly. Four were drafted and far as I can tell, only Cam is starting anywhere. Instead of trying to give the games away, they showed tremendous guts and managed to win games when their backs were to the wall and they beat teams that had equal or greater talent in many cases.

Chiz and his coaches took two really good players and managed to build a national championship team around them. I waited 50 years for that to happen and I don't take it lightly and I'm not inclined to dump Chiz as a first resort...instead of a last resort.

I suspect all would agree that the 2010 squad greatly over-achieved. I hope they would, as no one that I can recall from anywhere predicted that one. In fact, throughout the season, we were always going to get derailed next week.

I don't discredit that teams' (including the coaches) accomplishment. I never wanted Chizik to fail, I like the guy. However, when you look at the team that he presided over building, you don't see the results of a national championship program-building coach. I don't see anything resembling that. What I see reminds me entirely too much of 1998. I don't see LSU, Florida, Alabama, or even current South Carolina, or that we're headed in that direction. I hear about it, but I certainly don't see it. As Paul Clark from the Cyclone Report said: "It's not hard to win at Texas or Auburn; it's hard to lose."

Had we hired Steve Spurrier, Nick Saban, Les Miles, or Urban Meyer instead of Gene Chizik, do you think we would be 1-6 in the fourth year of his tenure here, regardless of circumstances?

First...none of these guys were available when we hired Chiz so what's the point of the question?

Second...would we have that crystal ball and the memories of Cam and Nick without Chiz (and the coaches he brought with him) ?

Chiz has his problems seems some folks have selective memories.

Chizik was not available either. All five were currently employed somewhere. The point of the question is stated quite clearly within it. More importantly, it remains unanswered.

As for the 2010 BCS National Championship, three of those men have won more than one of them. Urban Meyer, for example, would have likely still sought Cam Newton if he were here instead of Florida. Maybe we win it with one of those four in 2010, maybe we don't. Maybe we win it in 2011 or 2012 with them.

Point is, all four of them have built and maintained teams that are consistently in the hunt for it. None of them left everyone scratching their head when they were hired. They were established winners (as head coaches) elsewhere. None of them left people with legitimate concerns about the state and future of their programs in the fourth year of their tenure. I have no selective memory. Credit Chizik for that magical season, I'm fine with that. Credit Chizik for the nose-dive into the abyss that we have subsequently taken, as well. He gets both, you don't get to exclude one. When the stars align perfectly with both coordinators and two ridiculous players, he can preside over something that can win it all. When they don't, it plummets like the Titanic. I can do without having both extremes, with just mediocrity between them.

"Had we hired Steve Spurrier, Nick Saban, Les Miles, or Urban Meyer instead of Gene Chizik, do you think we would be 1-6 in the fourth year of his tenure here, regardless of circumstances?"

That might be the best point I have seen yet for not keeping Chizik. I have been on the fence most of the year but after the last two weeks I just can't see him staying. If one of the above mentioned coaches or someone of their ilk was coach their is NO way they let things get this bad. IMO Chizik should have seen this train wreck coming if he went to this new offense under an unproven OC. If he had hired a spread guy to work with Frazier's running ability we would probably be at least 4-3 right now. That decision is on Chizik, the attrition numbers are on Chizik, the FOUR YEAR defensive problems are on Chizik...and now perhaps the worst AU record in mine and a lot of others lifetime will be on Chizik as well. Sorry, but the answer to all the questions circle back to one person....Chizik.

To take that point further, look at their salaries. We're paying for Steve Spurrier, Nick Saban, Les Miles, or Urban Meyer. The only thing Chizik has in common with those four is a national championship team that he was the head coach of. At the college level, Spurrier had a losing season once. In 1987, 5-6 at Duke. Urban Meyer and Nick Saban have never had one. Gene Chizik has had one for half of time as a head coach.

1. Tough teams for anyone to beat those years, first year, played everyone tough except LSU, had UA on the ropes with 3 linebackers and a dead arm QB. After 2010 it was just these teams had better players after the exodus of a large senior class. QB - both starting QBs left after each season, 3 years three new QBs,

2.those recruiting classes were strong, but very weak on defense. No elite LB, CB, or DT, I would say Lemonier is the best defensive recruit Chizik has had.

3.whatever offense you run you need a better combination than underclassmen in all critical positions. RT, QB, RB, C, LT... not been in system long enough and just not ready, Personally I think he should have stuck with variation of spread offense....

4.Brandon Mosley says hello, and he will have a compete 4 years at seasons end, pretty of Corey comes out he will be drafted, as well as Ford.

5. Ted Roof - need I say more. But let me say the defense in 2010 was lights out against the run and was probably the best situational defense I have seen, when they needed a play they got it. 2011, too much youth on dline, not enough defensive depth.

6. Depends on your interpretation of significant, Blake has gotten better, so has Reese, Mason, and Lemonier.

We all have our opinions and I for one think Chizik bombed on hiring CSL as his OC, also as crazy as it is AU has been in every game this season, and has led in several of the games. Take away some poor play calls by the OC, untimely penalties, dumb throws by QBs, special team turnover against LSU, this team is easily 5-3

Or better. I have issues with the energy level of the team at times, and the constant personnel changes, but I am ok with him coming back next year...

I understand your points (aubfaninga's too), but how did he find himself in this position of having too many underclassmen starting in the wrong positions? Where is the JUCO help? If he didn't mind riding their back to Scottsdale, why aren't we using them to avoid 1-6? I also understand the argument against relying on JUCO help. When you inherit a mess, you do what you have to in order to get it working as best as possible immediately, while planning ahead. The head coach is supposed to be smart enough to see this coming, and know that 1-6 here isn't good for your job security. You don't get to press pause and wait for your new guys to develop.

Had we hired Steve Spurrier, Nick Saban, Les Miles, or Urban Meyer instead of Gene Chizik, do you think we would be 1-6 in the fourth year of his tenure here, regardless of circumstances?

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