Kerry on Imus

[Tiger in Spain 0]

IMUS:  They can't get this equipment for these troops if people like you won't vote for the funding though.

KERRY:  We did vote for the funding.  We voted for the funding.  I voted for the largest defense budgets in the history of our country.  And I voted— this is long after the war, that $87 billion vote.  The war had started.  These people were sent over there without the equipment and they still don't have the equipment.  And I've met families across America who are struggling, you know, they go out and they hold a bake auction or they do some charity effort in order to buy the armor on the Internet, send it to their kids.  That's not the way you send young Americans into war.

<snip>

On Abu Ghraib

IMUS:  What should happen, Senator Kerry, to the guards and their superiors if they're found guilty of abusing prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq?

KERRY:  Well, obviously, if somebody has engaged in activity like that, they're going to have to pay a price for that.  But what irks me is that every study and every analysis shows that this goes all the way up the chain of command.  And you still don't see the civilian leadership or people at the top of the chain of command taking responsibility.  And I object to some sergeant or, you know, some enlisted person being held accountable and held up to this scrutiny when this came from both the White House and a Defense Department that changed the behavior in how prisoners were going to be treated.  They did it in Guantanamo, they did it in Afghanistan, it spilled over into Iraq, and no one yet is being held accountable, and that's wrong.

IMUS:  But if these guards and superiors are in violation of the Geneva Conventions...

KERRY:  They have to be health accountable, and they will be.

IMUS:  What does that mean?  What does that mean?

KERRY:  Well, It means that they're going also have to pay a price for that, but it's got to be appropriate.  It can't be scapegoating.  They can't be the only ones and they can't pay the higher price while other people walk free.  It has to be appropriate to the level of sort of their understanding of what the rules were, and wrong as it may be, it has to be put into a context, and I don't think it has been yet.

IMUS:  Back in May of 2001 on "Meet the Press," you said you yourself have committed the same kinds of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers in violation of the Geneva Conventions.  And my question, Senator Kerry, is, is there a difference between what happened in your case in Vietnam and what happened at Abu Ghraib, in that both were acts in violation of the Geneva Conventions?

KERRY:  There is a difference.

IMUS:  What is it?

KERRY:  There is a difference.  What I was referring to in that testimony was the general categorization of free-fire zones in Vietnam and the general categorizations of some of the weapons that were being used, which were in violation of the accords.  We didn't learn that until we came home.  I didn't know any of that while I was there.  I didn't know any of that over there, nor did most soldiers.  And I never meant to impugn, I've never meant to categorize, you know, all soldiers somehow in that category, but it was a general -- if you talk to Neil Sheehan, who wrote "Bright Shining Lie," or you look even at the military manuals today that have drawn lessons from that period of time, there were policies put in place overall.  We had a program called "The Phoenix Program," which was an assassination program, and people were taken out of villages, and you know, the CIA ran it.  There were a whole bunch of things that regrettably, and you know, it's an awful period of America's history, but I told the truth about it, and that truth has been confirmed in countless documents since then, and I regret that some people are still upset about that period of time.  You know, I was angry about it when I came home.

IMUS:  That's what they're angry at you about.

KERRY:  Yes, that is what they're angry -- and I understand that, Don, but I had the courage to stand up -- look, I went, I did my duty, I came back, I saw what I saw, and I told the truth.  If some people have trouble with that still, I'm sorry about it.

IMUS:  A Freedom of Information Act request by "The Washington Post" regarding your military records produced six pages of information, while a spokesman for the Navy Personnel Command said there were at least 100 pages of information available, but he was not authorized to release them.  Why can't we see this stuff?

KERRY:  We've posted my military records that they sent to me, or were posted on my Web site.  You can go to my Web site, and all my -- you know, the documents are there.

IMUS:  So is -- everything's available?

KERRY:  To the best of my knowledge.  I think some of the medical stuff may still be out there.  We're trying to get it.

IMUS:  "The Washington Post" doesn't think that it's all available, and they could go to your Web site.  Maybe they did.

KERRY:  Well, we released everything that they initially sent me.