Baseball at Ole Miss game 1

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

33 minutes ago, AU64 said:

One other thought...last night's game was ESPNU......and I'm thinking they took the game expecting they could showcase the #1 pitcher in college baseball...Mize.....who as it turned out...did not pitch.   So tonight we are back to SEC Plus .......and streaming....

Hope the feed is better than usual....really love to watch that guy pitch. 

Not many individual players are worth the price of admission ...but he sure is.....

Nah.  This game was scheduled for ESPNU before the season started.  They always have one SEC game per week on Thursday, and this happened to be our turn.  No way that ESPN could have projected Mize as the #1 overall pick at that time.

[autigeremt 6,600]

14 hours ago, SCTiger2011 said:

Nah thanks, bro, I pay tuition, I'll voice my OPINION regardless.  

Not to mention those of us who put our lives on the line to protect the 1st Amendment ?

[boisnumber1 2,818]

13 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

I got paid (and still do as a side job) to be around the game.  You?

And no, I wouldn't want to coach.  I make more now doing what I do than most coaching baseball for a living.

Peanut vendor or beer salesman?

[mustache eagle 2,398]

Seems like some valid discussions about the rotation and strategy.  There have been other threads about the subject but this one now has a game played to compare the strategy.

id say the strategy was somewhat validated.  But not enough that it can’t still be questioned.

davis pitched OK and ate up some innings.  Made about 3 mistakes and was punished.  Our bullpen did well.  I think everybody that threw out of the pen could give an inning in game 3.

We had our chances to put more runs up but the O didn’t take advantage.  We hit the ball on the screws our fair share of times.

we didn’t get it done, could have won but was beaten by a top 10 team.  And we ended their superstars hitting streak also.

[boisnumber1 2,818]

14 hours ago, SCTiger2011 said:

Nah thanks, bro, I pay tuition, I'll voice my OPINION regardless.  

No one said you didnt. You have every right to be a whiner just like anyone else.

[mustache eagle 2,398]

Another plus ... it could be risky for them to throw their closer again.  He threw around 40 pitches.

[SumterAubie 3,031]

Well, Auburn got out of Davis about what one would expect. Whether pitching the first game of the series or the last. When he pitches Auburn has to score runs and didn't last night.

We'll get'em tonight. And tomorrow.

[boomstick 1,315]

18 hours ago, SCTiger2011 said:

The thing is though, in two weeks that schedule's going to blow up regardless.  The SEC tournament starts on Tuesday for anyone outside the top 4 seeds and Wednesday for the top 4 seeds.  So Casey's going to do a Friday/Tuesday three-day rest appearance probably anyways.  At least the move to Thursday would keep him an extra day for tournament time, if the whole thing is about keeping him fresh for postseason.

No, he won’t. If anything, Mize might throw a low pitch-count (25-30) outing on Tuesday, like Keegan did last year to start the SECT. Most likely, we won’t throw Casey at all until at least Thursday of the SECT. We will have to rely on other pitchers to get us past the first day if we don’t get a bye. 

Butch isn’t going to jeopardize Mize’s health for any one win. Mize is too important to this team. And he’s going to be the #1 pick in the draft. That’s a big deal to Mize and Butch. No need to risk an injury or soreness that might cause Mize to miss any time. 

I’d say the only reason Mize threw on the Thursday at Florida is because he had a short outing at Bama the week before. Only threw 85 pitches in 5 innings. That’s a pretty big difference from the 108 he threw against Vandy. 

[boomstick 1,315]

18 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Here's my issue.  BT's job is to give the club their best shot to win every night.  He didn't do that today by screwing with the rotation and that's on him.

I don’t agree. Butch also has to look at the long-term. If he pushes Casey up a day and he struggles or can’t get over the soreness and misses the LSU start, was it worth it? What if Casey isn’t as sharp without that extra day of rest and he gets beat? Is that doing what’s best for the team to win every night? We will most likely see Andrew Mitchell starting next Thursday against LSU. Is that going to be a mistake too? Or will it only be a mistake if Mitchell doesn’t look good or we lose?

I think Butch made the best decision for both last night’s game and the overall outlook of the season. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

27 minutes ago, boomstick said:

I don’t agree. Butch also has to look at the long-term. If he pushes Casey up a day and he struggles or can’t get over the soreness and misses the LSU start, was it worth it? What if Casey isn’t as sharp without that extra day of rest and he gets beat? Is that doing what’s best for the team to win every night? We will most likely see Andrew Mitchell starting next Thursday against LSU. Is that going to be a mistake too? Or will it only be a mistake if Mitchell doesn’t look good or we lose?

I think Butch made the best decision for both last night’s game and the overall outlook of the season. 

This would make sense to me if Butch hadn't already thrown Casey on a Thursday this season (4/26 at Florida).  He gave up three runs over seven innings to the best team in the country and still whiffed 10.  That same performance wins last night.

And yes, throwing Andrew in Game 1 against another team's ace is a mistake next week too.  It could work out, but its not putting an optimal lineup out there.

[boomstick 1,315]

4 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

This would make sense to me if Butch hadn't already thrown Casey on a Thursday this season (4/26 at Florida).  He gave up three runs over seven innings to the best team in the country and still whiffed 10.  That same performance wins last night.

And yes, throwing Andrew in Game 1 against another team's ace is a mistake next week too.  It could work out, but its not putting an optimal lineup out there.

I think Casey threw on that Thursday because he had a shorter outing the week before against Bama. If he’d gone 8 innings and thrown 110 pitches, I don’t think Casey starts a day early. But we will probably never know. 

We’re obviously going to disagree on pitching Mize on short rest. I just don’t get how it’s optimal to throw Mize one day but not another. He’s only going to pitch once. So whichever day he throws will be our optimal lineup, and every lineup before or after is going to be suboptimal in comparison. 

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]

4 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

And yes, throwing Andrew in Game 1 against another team's ace is a mistake next week too.  It could work out, but its not putting an optimal lineup out there.

This is an idiotic statement.  You're aware Thompson can't start Mize all three games, right?  But you're the guy that was advocating for two hands to catch a fly ball, which rec ball coaches don't even teach...only the parents in the stands that didn't play.

 

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]

19 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

I won't complain about a road series win if it comes to fruition.  But I will look back it thinking we could have taken all three.

You seem to enjoy predicting failure, which is easy in baseball, and then touting yourself as an expert when it happens.

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]

8 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Also, the argument that you had to play to understand the game is a stupid one. 

Funny, it's stupid until you feel compelled to qualify your expertise.  Which ostensibly came from hall of famer's....who played.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

19 minutes ago, PowerOfDixieland said:

This is an idiotic statement.  You're aware Thompson can't start Mize all three games, right?  But you're the guy that was advocating for two hands to catch a fly ball, which rec ball coaches don't even teach...only the parents in the stands that didn't play.

 

Nor did I suggest he could start Mize all three games.  But he could have started our best pitcher against their best pitcher, giving us a better chance at victory.

As for your two hands comment, I watched a high school coach chew his player out this year for dropping a routine fly because he didn't use two hands.  This coach, by the way, is one of the most successful in Texas and has sent dozens of kids to D1 ball over the years.

15 minutes ago, PowerOfDixieland said:

You seem to enjoy predicting failure, which is easy in baseball, and then touting yourself as an expert when it happens.

Its not predicting failure, which I actually didn't do with regards to the series.  I said a winning series would certainly be cause for celebration, but it would feel like we left one on the table. 

12 minutes ago, PowerOfDixieland said:

Funny, it's stupid until you feel compelled to qualify your expertise.  Which ostensibly came from hall of famer's....who played.

I did qualify my resume.  I also offered an article showing that playing experience doesn't particularly equate to successful coaching/understanding within a sport.  Vin Scully, Tracy Ringolsby, Peter Gammons, and Tim Kurkjian never played either, but if any of them starts talking baseball, one would be stupid not to listen.  They have forgotten more about the game than any of us will likely ever know.

Look, we can disagree on the Mize thing all day and that's fine.  Baseball is a game MADE for arguments like this.  But it would be nice if you added anything of substance to this discussion.  Also, go work on your reading comprehension skills before replying again.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

26 minutes ago, boomstick said:

I think Casey threw on that Thursday because he had a shorter outing the week before against Bama. If he’d gone 8 innings and thrown 110 pitches, I don’t think Casey starts a day early. But we will probably never know. 

We’re obviously going to disagree on pitching Mize on short rest. I just don’t get how it’s optimal to throw Mize one day but not another. He’s only going to pitch once. So whichever day he throws will be our optimal lineup, and every lineup before or after is going to be suboptimal in comparison. 

The optimal lineup comment is meant to say giving your team the best chance at winning that day.  Its unlikely that our 3rd/4th starter will win against their #1.  Throwing our #1 vs their #1 should give us a better chance to win with the understanding that a guy can only throw once a weekend.  Same situation down the line.  Basically we sacrificed a game yesterday that, if we throw our top guy in usual rotation spot, we likely would have won.

[steeleagle 2,945]

16 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

The optimal lineup comment is meant to say giving your team the best chance at winning that day.  Its unlikely that our 3rd/4th starter will win against their #1.  Throwing our #1 vs their #1 should give us a better chance to win with the understanding that a guy can only throw once a weekend.  Same situation down the line.  Basically we sacrificed a game yesterday that, if we throw our top guy in usual rotation spot, we likely would have won.

In theory that makes sense to pit your best against their best.

But baseball is different especially when it comes to pitching and having a pitcher that is well known to possibly be the best in college and a 1st pick in the draft.

So when CBT says he wants Mize to pitch on Friday, even though he pitched Mize on Thursday last week, could have been decided for a number of reasons:

1. Maybe his Thursday game FL was not his sharpest (CBT may have looked at his numbers after the game, his post game feelings with his arm, looked at velocity as the game wore on). So many things go it to that we don't see.

2. Maybe he is looking ahead to giving him more rest, knowing he is going to be pitching in higher pressure games in the SEC tourney and the NCAAs. 

3. Or maybe CBT is looking out a little too with his pro career.

I think we are beating this eval to death, as fans. That is fine, it is fun too, but as long as we get to host a series in the NCAA and do well in the SEC tournament i will be satisfied.

[boomstick 1,315]

27 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

The optimal lineup comment is meant to say giving your team the best chance at winning that day.  Its unlikely that our 3rd/4th starter will win against their #1.  Throwing our #1 vs their #1 should give us a better chance to win with the understanding that a guy can only throw once a weekend.  Same situation down the line.  Basically we sacrificed a game yesterday that, if we throw our top guy in usual rotation spot, we likely would have won.

Basically, I’ve gathered that you think Butch is wrong for pushing back Mize’s start because it doesn’t give us as good a chance to win against the opponent’s ace. I think Butch is right to hold Mize’s back because of his injury history in these situations and his importance to this team. We’re at an impasse. 

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

32 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

The optimal lineup comment is meant to say giving your team the best chance at winning that day.  Its unlikely that our 3rd/4th starter will win against their #1.  Throwing our #1 vs their #1 should give us a better chance to win with the understanding that a guy can only throw once a weekend.  Same situation down the line.  Basically we sacrificed a game yesterday that, if we throw our top guy in usual rotation spot, we likely would have won.

The usual rotation spot for Casey is Friday night. You just seem to want to forget that FL game....when Casey threw on a Thursday night and Auburn lost. Casey did not have his best game either, and he just never seemed comfortable. I'm pretty sure that had a lot to do with this weekend's decision to keep Casey on his usual night. Auburn had multiple chances to win last night and just didn't get it done. Pitching wasn't the issue. RISP left on base is what caused Auburn to lose. You have tunnel vision on this issue.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

5 minutes ago, Tigerbelle said:

The usual rotation spot for Casey is Friday night. You seem to forget that FL game....when Casey threw on a Thursday night and Auburn lost. Casey did not have his best game either. I'm pretty sure that had something to do with this weekend's decision to keep Casey on his usual night. Auburn had multiple chances to win last night and just didn't get it done. Pitching wasn't the issue.

The usual day is Friday.  The usual rotation spot is #1.  I didn't forget the UF game though Belle.  In fact, I cited it earlier in the thread.  That same performance he gave us against Florida wins last night.  You are correct though that going 0-fer with RISP was a big issue last night.  What it boils down for me isn't whether it worked or not last night or if it could have worked with better hitting.  It's about putting your best out there before the cards are dealt.

I look at it like poker.  You can only go off the information that you have, so making the best decision possible with that info is paramount before calling/folding/going all-in.  After that, the cards may or may not fall your way.

11 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

In theory that makes sense to pit your best against their best.

But baseball is different especially when it comes to pitching and having a pitcher that is well known to possibly be the best in college and a 1st pick in the draft.

So when CBT says he wants Mize to pitch on Friday, even though he pitched Mize on Thursday last week, could have been decided for a number of reasons:

3. Or maybe CBT is looking out a little too with his pro career.

I think we are beating this eval to death, as fans. That is fine, it is fun too, but as long as we get to host a series in the NCAA and do well in the SEC tournament i will be satisfied.

If this is the case, then it's TOTALLY reasonable and I completely understand.  In fact, I'd support it.  But if that is the case, then Butch should come out and say it.  I think being so openly on the lookout like that for a kid's pro career could be a great recruiting tool.

[boomstick 1,315]

9 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

 

If this is the case, then it's TOTALLY reasonable and I completely understand.  In fact, I'd support it.  But if that is the case, then Butch should come out and say it.  I think being so openly on the lookout like that for a kid's pro career could be a great recruiting tool.

He’s been praised in the past for this kind of thing, and people have talked about his protectiveness over his pitchers’ health as a reason why he’s such a good recruiter. Parents trust that if they send their kid to Butch instead of the draft, he’s not only going to develop them but also do everything to keep them healthy. 

[AU64 10,122]

10 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

The usual day is Friday.  The usual rotation spot is #1.  I didn't forget the UF game though Belle.  In fact, I cited it earlier in the thread.  That same performance he gave us against Florida wins last night.  You are correct though that going 0-fer with RISP was a big issue last night.  What it boils down for me isn't whether it worked or not last night or if it could have worked with better hitting.  It's about putting your best out there before the cards are dealt.

I look at it like poker.  You can only go off the information that you have, so making the best decision possible with that info is paramount before calling/folding/going all-in.  After that, the cards may or may not fall your way.

If this is the case, then it's TOTALLY reasonable and I completely understand.  In fact, I'd support it.  But if that is the case, then Butch should come out and say it.  I think being so openly on the lookout like that for a kid's pro career could be a great recruiting tool.

Protecting for the MLB.?  .....sounds like protecting guys for the NFL?   If that is the key issue with CM, seems he should just sit the rest of the year....nothing he does from here on in is going to affect his draft status so sit back and wait on the #1 pick.

 

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

1 minute ago, Brad_ATX said:

The usual day is Friday.  The usual rotation spot is #1.  I didn't forget the UF game though Belle.  In fact, I cited it earlier in the thread.  That same performance he gave us against Florida wins last night.  You are correct though that going 0-fer with RISP was a big issue last night.  What it boils down for me isn't whether it worked or not last night or if it could have worked with better hitting.  It's about putting your best out there before the cards are dealt.

I look at it like poker.  You can only go off the information that you have, so making the best decision possible with that info is paramount before calling/folding/going all-in.  After that, the cards may or may not fall your way.

If this is the case, then it's TOTALLY reasonable and I completely understand.  In fact, I'd support it.  But if that is the case, then Butch should come out and say it.  I think being so openly on the lookout like that for a kid's pro career could be a great recruiting tool.

You cannot seriously believe that it would be a certainty that Auburn would win. You are really reaching there. You do know that FL homered off of Mize....right? Casey made some mistakes that cost Auburn. No one knows for sure what would've happened last night, and that argument is just nonsense. HITTING is what cost Auburn last night. You are so entrenched in your position that it seems like you didn't watch the same game. Pitching was serviceable outside of those 3 pitches by DD. And he needed to get out there and sink or swim because Auburn needs him to straighten out. It was a good opportunity to get DD going again. Casey is not the only pitcher that Butch has to worry about btw. 

My BIL was a major league pitcher and I agree with POD. Baseball is such an intricate sport that having played on a very high level is necessary to really understand the game in the SEC. I have learned so much from my BIL about baseball that most people just don't get. And I grew up in a baseball kind of family.  He just has experience ....on the elite college level and in MLB that can't be matched.

A successful coach who hasn't played is obviously smart enough to listen to those that have, and to learn from them. I guarantee that he/she has made sure to be surrounded by those who are experienced on the field as well as on the sidelines. You just can't substitute for that kind of knowledge.

 

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

10 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Protecting for the MLB.?  .....sounds like protecting guys for the NFL?   If that is the key issue with CM, seems he should just sit the rest of the year....nothing he does from here on in is going to affect his draft status so sit back and wait on the #1 pick.

 

Overworking a pitcher causes injury. And the stress is cumulative starting in childhood....so it is vital to a kid with a multi-million dollar career ahead of him to take care of his arm. Having a coach that wants the best for his players is admirable. There's no need for Casey to be stupid about his career at this point. He can still play for his team and his school without being reckless.

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]