DyeCampAlum

I know how the OL will respond. They'll keep doing their best. Even if they get demoralized and it affects their performance, they'll still try as hard as they can. They're just not that good, which should be no surprise.

The problem isn't just that PSU got pressure on the QBs. It's that they got pressure QUICK.

I've said to a lot of people who want to blame the QBs that they had basically no chance because we just can't block anybody. So he's theoretically right.

But he is so relationally wrong. YOU JUST CAN'T DO THIS. Makes me worry about the locker room, especially because it was evident Saturday that the defense gave up hope at 21-6. I would never say they quit trying. But there's often a moment when demoralization kicks in no matter how hard you're trying. I thought I saw that. With defense, it looks like sticking onto blocks, "hoping" to make tackles, and whatever DBs do that I don't understand.

Meh. I’m highly concerned about Harsin. But to say he’s never seen Auburn get dominated? I give you LSU in 2015.

18 hours ago, JuscAUse! said:

There is nothing new under the sun. If you can't block their guys, and they can block your guys, you are toast. We were toast early. Our LBs run to the line of scrimmage and engage O linemen while the rb runs in the space they vacated. I try desperately to be positive, but I can't find anything to be excited about. 

This right here. We haven’t blocked anybody good in a long time, and our QBs and receivers aren’t good enough to bail us out. That makes it hard for me to judge Harsin.

What worries me most is watching the defense cave after State went up 21-6. We were in the 3rd row, and it was visible they quit believing. That’s scary.

This looks great. Totally confused about what happened in Pittsburgh.

14 hours ago, oracle79 said:

Serious question for the Mason guys. My overall perception of him is that he was considered a great DC due to his ability to slow the mystical Chip Kelly offense at Oregon when he was Stanford's DC. His time as HC at Vanderbilt was stupendously underwhelming in light of the success that James Franklin had before him. I just don't get it. I know he seems like a great guy, but hell Doug Barfield was one of the nicest guys I've ever met and been around. But he's not a good HC. And I understand if we just have different takes, I'm just curious what you guys see that make him special.

Vandy alum here. What Franklin did at Vandy is basically outrageous. I don't even know how to describe it. Since 1974 DiNardo is the only other coach Vandy has had who outperformed Mason, and only barely. Mason did very, very well until his program ran out of energy, which is about what you could say about DiNardo.

So I do hold Mason accountable for losing momentum, but on the whole he did a very good job at Vandy.

I'm sorry, but if you don't recognize Mason's success as a DC at Stanford and at Auburn, you really don't know how to evaluate football. There's a reason OkState is paying him over $1MM per year. He's making a lot more than either coordinator did last year.

A few facts about Mason. Whatever happened at Vandy, he lost momentum with the program. But you know what else? Since 1974, only two Vandy head coaches have had better records than Mason. That's 2 out of 11.

Regarding the defense: Auburn's D was #51 in efficiency in 2020, per Football Outsiders, and #17 in 2021. In 2020, Auburn was #4 in the SEC in scoring D; #5 in 2021. So if we think Steele was a pretty good DC, and everybody does, Mason was just as good.

If Auburn had concluded that he was in a relationship with someone under his supervision, they wouldn’t need to “prove” it in court. It’s a Title IX issue, and they’d have to act. I’m not saying I know what happened, but it’s far more likely they looked into it and didn’t find it probable.

I’m happy for him too. I gotta say, it’s sometimes amazing to watch an NFL game and note the players who weren’t good enough for Malzahn: Lamar Jackson, Trovon Reed, and Amir Abdullah (out of the league now?) come to mind, as do some DBs who didn’t get much time. Uzomah played a lot but didn’t get used.

19 hours ago, LPTiger said:

Short answer -- the university felt it had a legal obligation to conduct an investigation.   Longer answer -- years ago the United States Supreme Court decided two cases -Ellerth and Faragher.   The cases both dealt with sexually hostile work environment claims and specifically under what circumstances is an employer vicariously liable for a hostile work environment allegedly created by a supervisor/manager that does not include quid pro quo harassment.   Essentially what the court decided was that an employer has an absolute defense to a hostile environment claim if it "took prompt remedial action" immediately upon learning of allegations of workplace harassment.   "Prompt remedial action" typically includes conducting a fair and impartial investigation to determine the truth or falsity of the alleged claims.  If the allegations are found to be with merit, the employer must then take appropriate actions designed to stop and prevent future misconduct.    Here, social media alleged inappropriate sexual conduct between a manager, Harsin, and a university employee, his assistant.   Despite it merely being a rumor, it was smart, in my legal opinion, to conduct an investigation.  What was not smart was having that investigation become public knowledge.   That is the question in my mind --- how did the investigation become public.   Although Ellerth and Faragher dealt specifically with claims of sexually hostile work environment, many courts use the same analysis to decide various types of related claims.

Not a lawyer but an academic. This rings true. Some of the material from the official statements suggests the sex rumor was in view. Read Harsin’s statement in particular with that in mind. At the same time, @TitanTiger’s comment that concerns were already percolating looks correct as well. I’m going to assume that sex rumor (s?) was malicious and false.

7 hours ago, AUght2win said:

It annoys me so much when guys apply old school metrics to new school football.

With the spread, HUNH, targeting, and rules favoring offensive production, point totals are totally different than they used to be. It’s literally like inflation for football.

When you look at a final score these days, take 10 points off each team’s total, and that’s what it would have translated to in the old days. 

These old dudes will look at allowing them 17 to Houston or 20 to Ole Miss and think that’s too much. It’s insanity.

If you can hold an opposing team under 24 these days, that should be enough to win. In the pre spread era, that expectation was around 14-17. 

TLDR - Mason was excellent for every game outside Mississippi State and Penn State. Anybody who says otherwise doesn’t understand modern football and didn’t appreciate what we had this past season with Mason. Maybe it serves us right he left.
 

This is literally true. I ran the numbers in another thread. In 2000 total points per game was about 40. It’s right at 60 now. Given our offense’s inability to run when it had to, Mason did a very strong job this year.

Even against State, the D just collapsed because it got not breaks. Read the play chart. You can’t let a run and shoot team just keep snapping the ball.

Multiple sources, including Chris Low, say Auburn is keeping Harsin and will announce today.

Honestly, I'm a little bit relieved. It's obvious to me that he needs to do better in some key parts of the job. I hope that's being addressed, and I hope it works. Enormous damage has been done, and I'm not sure it can be healed. I'm pretty sure the administration has done no favors in its PR work lately.

At the same time, legitimate concerns arose that had to be addressed. You can't lose coaches and players the way we have, with racial undertones and with our inadequate recruiting, without digging around for perspective and calling the coach on the carpet. I have no idea about the other allegations, whether the administration took them seriously, investigated them, or whatever. But I'm glad they seem to be resolved.

Wouldn't it be amazing if Harsin gets the help he needs, accepts it, and gives Auburn the help it needs?

 One fact I’m late to learning. Our highest ranked recruit this year would be #18 in Bama’s class. Let’s not talk about OL recruiting. Pair that with players saying Harsin doesn’t get it and the departure of three black coaches (two willingly, and one with a huge pay cut), and the administration had to look in.

I haven’t quit on Harsin, and I certainly don’t give the administration a pass for how they’ve handled it—way too much none of us know-but I don’t know what a path coming back looks like.

Executive contracts are different. If you want a coach, you have to guarantee they'll get rich as long as they don't do something illegal or morally embarrassing. "With cause" is pretty narrow.

Executives aren't treated like the rest of us. (Not that I like that. I don't. It's just reality.)

That same Boise mod wrote the following. Doesn't seem far off.

 

Quote

This is precisely the unfortunate and hurtful and inhumane (and I would argue immoral) aspect of ths entire episode. Frankly, I would be enjoying the whole debacle if it weren't for this damage to this young woman and to Harsin's family--even with the prospect of money damages, it doesn't "correct" the wrong done.

That Auburn's AD went hard after Harsin in the first place was a head scratcher: hire an essentially west-coast coach with a few years in SEC country (and really only in the periphery of it), a reputation for being a brutal control freak among his staff, a record of being outcoached and outprepared in big games, a history of being prickly with boosters and media, etc. And Harsin's acceptance of the position is a bit of a head scratcher--go to a program that basically hounded out a fairly succesful coach, with a Natty title, who had gone stale, governed by meddlesome boosters, and insisted on retaining staff to make up for your own obvious deficiencies in recruiting the South or understanding SEC culture. The aspect of coaching in the SEC with the huge stadiums and elite competition and the huge buyout and $5 million salary made him blind to all of what was an obviously bad fit. It's only surprising, just a little, that it soured so quickly.

A combo of his ego/ambition and of the sick money enticed Harsin to bolt, and upto the point of these rumors, I felt Auburn and Harsin deserved one another. Good, a little tepid, but way too full of themselves. But now with the rumors, I don't care terribly what happens to Harsin or Auburn, but I hope the young woman can find her own place, with her own friends, and build a life free from this scrutiny and meanness.

51 minutes ago, TucsonTiger said:

Justin Hokanson from Auburn Live said he talked to some people in the Boise athletic program and they are not surprised at what is happening at AU. Things were becoming unglued there also!

There any kind of a link for that? You hear this kind of thing once in awhile, but there's always stink after a departure. I just wonder how much of a thing this is.

Dell not having been a coordinator is a big deal. And Georgia's offensive scheme isn't why they win, except that it complements the defense.

Aranda is not leaving Baylor for Auburn. I mean, please. He's king of a little universe right now.

Payton lacks college experience. That usually goes badly.

As for Sanders, it's one thing to mobilize resources your peer institutions cannot muster. It's entirely another thing to develop a program with just a bit lower resources than its primary rivals.

If we're serious about this, we'll do what Auburn has always done when we've been successful. We'll pluck someone of lower status, whether an excellent assistant or a G5 head coach who gets what we're doing. Or maybe, like LSU did with Saban and we did with Tuberville, a coach who's outperforming his setting.

Most of all, I hope Harsin gets some vindication and maybe some coaching. One thing I admire about Saban--and this will sound weird--is his humility, his desire to get feedback from peers. I worry about Harsin's capacity to do that, but I hope it gets tapped.

If we hire a coach, someone with NFL-only experience is a recipe for disaster. Football knowledge is secondary to program management here.

44 minutes ago, alexava said:

No. It’s looking like a witch hunt to me. A true investigation would not be this self damaging.

I guess my take is, you have coaches leaving, 20 players leaving, and about 20 players voicing a common complaint. That was all public. I don't know how Auburn avoids trying to dig out the truth in that environment.

I've never been an academic administrator, but I am a career academic and I've had some public roles. If you're faced with substantial evidence that's already gone public, you have to say something and do something. Hopefully, we'll learn that the complaints are overblown or that Harsin has agreed to get some coaching. I'm not rooting against the guy.

54 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I don't believe the salacious rumors.  The lack of connections and ability to build relationships is an issue.  There can only be so much one-sided buy-in

I appreciate the reply. I 100% agree about those rumors. Unless they're substantiated, I have no interest in them other than hoping the people who started them get head lice. And I'll freely confess, I have no idea what to make of the relationships issue. Harsin may rub my fur the wrong way sometimes, but I'll hold out hope so long as there's reason to.

Anyway, thanks.

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

I've seen coaches get railroaded. It's not fun. It damages relationships and reputations, it takes a huge toll on the family (imagine the son right now in HS), and will always follow you. Even if innocent you'll always be asked to rehash it. 

This is not a set-up question. Are you primarily concerned about the salacious accusations or the concerns about handling the team?

1 hour ago, alexava said:

So you are willing to go along with the destruction of the man’s character so you can get a coach who has a better ability to complete in the SEC? I’m not down with that. I was not a fan of his this season either. I think we downgraded from Gus. But I sense dirty tactics being used because the PTB at this university think they made a mistake. 

I get that this is a heated discussion, but I haven’t accused Harsin of anything, and I’ve said so repeatedly. I am worried that if he did things to alienate players and coaches, he may not be the right guy. That’s what they’re investigating, isn’t it?

38 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Briles was cleared of any wrongdoing.  Freeze was not.

It's quite unclear that Briles was "cleared of wrongdoing." His attorney says that. The Pepper Hamilton investigation says Briles created a context where misconduct was protected.

From the NCAA report that supposedly cleared Briles: "“In each instance, when the head coach received information from a staff member regarding potential criminal conduct by a football student-athlete, he did not report the information and did not personally look any further into the matter. His incurious attitude toward potential criminal conduct by his student-athletes was deeply troubling to the panel."

Speaking as someone who works in a university and chairs accreditation visits annually, those look like Title IX violations.

17 minutes ago, alexava said:

A coach that stays TF away from woke politics? Won’t disclose his vaccination status. Says it’s personal... I’m liking him more every day. Within the next 4-5 years these qualities will be sought after. Remember where you heard that. 

I really don't care where I heard that. I'm not interested in his politics. I'm quite interested in his ability to compete in the SEC.