AUght2win

If y'all want to go to bat for Saban, be my guest. Just check out Jonathan Taylor and Saban's refusal to apologize for bringing in a known domestic abuser. Make sure you know the guy's track record and talent-based, inconsistent discipline. And don't get me started on cheating. Take a look at Tom Albetar.

Dating yourself a little, pal.

Well we'll have to see. That's what I posted this thread for. I hope he doesn't sacrifice his principles. Win or lose. I want to see if it can work. Obviously, I want to win. And he won't be here otherwise. Gus was a good dude, albeit a bit of the bend-over-backwards for recruits type. But he didn't win and I wanted him GONE, regardless of how good a guy he was. I've always said I don't think winning and being a good man are too much to ask. Certainly not for what these coaches are getting paid.

I completely agree. And it has never been clean. But it's gotten waaaay grosser. And the pay has gone waaaay up to boot. They need to pick one. Either cut these coaches pay to the 100k it was in the 80s, so we can at least understand these guys are mere football coaches and aren't expected to be good dudes. Or keep the pay high, but hold the coaches accountable. If a dude is making 10 million dollars a year off of kids, his priority should be making each and every one into a man built for post college success.

Again, you are viewing it in terms of how good they are at coaching football. How much money they can make a very tiny percent of their players. You are looking through the lens of modern football - where wins and money are ALL that matter. It shouldn't be that way. We are talking about programs that are responsible for 120, 18-22 year old boys at all times. Preparing them for success after football, and turning them into men should matter. College football shouldn't just be this NFL development league, because the numbers don't work. There are 73,000+ NCAA football players. They all have about a 1.6% chance to be one of the roughly 1600 players in the NFL. There needs to be more emphasis on the 98.4%. The harsh reality is that won't happen unless a guy like Harsin can prove tough-character programs can win. Right now, it hasn't been proven.

Google "Zach Smith". But y'all are missing the point. College coaching, as a profession right now, has normalized dirty practices. I compare it to politicians. A "good, honest" politician is still a term only relative to other politicians. Not the average job. Modern athletics and politics are unique in that they are two of the few professions where you can publicly, overtly, and habitually lie & have scandal yet still keep your job. If you consider Saban a guy of integrity, you are doing so in comparison to other slimy men in his field. The average guy on the street has never unapologetically enabled a domestic abuser or let kids in his charge off the hook for gun charges. I'm sure Saban is a decent dude IRL, but he is making a living in a profession currently mired in unethical practices. Would you argue against that? I like what Harsin (and the Fitzgerald and David Shaws) represent. If he can win, maybe character can matter again in the sport, and more boys can be turned into men.

So has Urban Meyer. So has Art Briles. So has Hugh Freeze. So has Bobby Petrino's. A man's success is not indicative of his character.

Do you know about the Philon stuff? The grey shirts? The Cam Robinson ordeal? Claiming he vetted Jonathan Taylor when he didn't even call Richt? Processing duds while pardoning studs? Saban is slimy. He is respected for winning, and the voices of support are from guys he made millionaires. If you look at his whole body of work, he has less integrity than the average man on the street. It isn't extraordinarily slimy in his field. But point being, it's a slimy field.

I should note I don't believe Harsin will intentionally prioritize 3 stars and develop them. He WANTS talent, obviously. The question is whether the talent will want what he is offering. If Harsin wins, then yes. If you build it they will come. If you put kids in the league, they will come. But it's an egg before the chicken situation. He'll have to win, I think. He come in like a Pruitt and grab 5 stars everywhere, selling kids to come be a part of a wild west lawless program.

They really can't though. Or else there wouldn't be 1800 kids in the transfer portal.

Nah I'm not saying Harsin will refuse talent or go out of his way to be obstinate. Being a salesman is still part of his job and he knows he needs talent. But I do think he would turn kids down like Duke Williams or Sean White, if their character seems too incompatible. I also just respectfully disagree most coaches are genuine now. I mean lying has been so normalized in that profession. Coaches will promise they aren't going anywhere at podiums then leave a day later. They'll falsely promise to utilize kids (I'll still never understand how Gus got tight end recruits after year 4). They'll block transfers. They'll pull offers or stonewall kids (see Tennessee lately). It's just a business where most are a bit sociopathic. I mean, Saban has done some reprehensible stuff in terms of integrity (Leaving Miami the way he did, Darius Philon, taking Jonathan Taylor, feigning player safety to stop HUNH only to utilize it). In daily life, if we knew a person who had done things THAT unashamedly dishonest and reckless, we would avoid them at all costs. They'd be unhirable in most fields. But in college football, he is seen as one of the more respected straight-shooters. It's a filthy business these days to be a HC.

Player empowerment is one way to put it. Temporary exploitation is another. Some of the changes have been good. NLI releases, more options in schools, more visits for kids, better facilities, better living situations on campus, better training, more exposure, stipends. All that has been great. But then it enters into spoiling kids to their own detriment. Pre-1990 college coaches were seen more in the mold of high school coaches - builders of young men. So for the most part, there was at least a knowledge that even if a kid doesn't make the pros, he would at least come away with a degree and the character tools to live a successful life. Now college football is purely money making entertainment and NFL prep. Do you think Kirby Smart cares if the kids he is recruiting are equipped for life outside of football? Kids openly say they are making business decisions in their choices. They are all counting on the NFL, because they are all told it's a certainty. They are sold a bill of goods. Because the odds are even lower than they used to be (because of more teams and college prospects) of making a career out of professional football. So after 3 or 4 years of study in a BS major that the player doesn't even care about, with little to no retention because there are 1000x aides and tutors to push you through, and coaches who only invest in you as a player, not a person... what happens when you go undrafted and get cut from rookie camp after a week? You end up with kids at 22 that are basically still the same boys they were at 18 when they arrived. Because the current system cares about using up their physical talents, not their futures as men.

Electric sliding, having fun within reasonable means, being a salesman within reasonable means is fine. Sleeping over at a recruit's house, or a 50 year old man with a bowl cut saying stuff like "I wanna eat... I want you to eat" is disingenuous and weird. 9/10 upper echelon, power 5 coaches will be a chameleon to bring in kids.

"They’re real genuine guys. Coach Harsin — he’s just straight forward. He’s not going to beat around the bush with you. He’s going to tell you the truth." - Dylan Brooks. I am so excited about the hire of Coach Harsin. I think it could change not only Auburn football, but potentially, the direction of the sport. Here's what I mean. The power paradigm in college football recruiting and coaching has completely shifted over the past 20 to 30 years. This aspect of the sport has change more dramatically than any other scouting/management field in all of sports. The moral argument of whether or not the changes to recruiting are good or bad are subjective. I personally think the changes have been mostly bad for the kids. What's objectively true is things are waaaaay different. Bo Schembechler wouldn't have climbed a tree to impress a recruit. Bear Bryant wouldn't have offered an 8th grader. Pat Dye wouldn't have flown non-stop, called non-stop, and texted non-stop to chase 16 year olds down and beg them to come to Auburn. Vince Dooley wouldn't fake being caught up on teenage trends and be rapping on tik tok. Coaches are now beggars. Shameless, desperate, inauthentic beggars, who will do anything to get a kid in their team's jersey. The modern Power 5 college coach will overpromise, lie, and flatter a kid with no hesitation. This has always taken place to a degree. After all, it's recruiting. But there are several factors as to why the dynamic has shifted from players begging to play for a coach, to coaches begging players to come play. One is money. The insane cash has destroyed these grown men's dignity and integrity. What's Harbaugh making? 8 million a year? Of course he has no problem sleeping over at a high school kid's house if he is drawing a salary like that. Another is training. Kids are trained year around from grade school. Relative to top projects of old, modern bluechips are on a different planet. They go to all these camps and are very well evaluated not only by recruiting services, but by staff, who have tools like Hudl and YouTube to really weed out who is and isn't forreal. The coaches of old didn't go all-out on 5 stars because they weren't as much of a sure-thing. I mean they STILL aren't 100% sure things now. Imagine back in the old days. Third, and maybe the biggest, is technology. I mentioned Hudl and YouTube above. But cell phones, the internet and social media are even bigger factors. Just like the kids they recruit, schools now need to keep up with trends. They blow whichever way the teenage wind does. If you need tangible proof, count the 1000x alternate jerseys teams have now so they can have drip💧. This has trickled all the way to the coaches. Listen to a Kirby Smart team speech. The guy is using lingo and has NO idea what it means. It's very awkward to see these major institutions trying to look cool to 15 year olds - but it's now the norm. Here's why I think Harsin is interesting. His model worked at a smaller school, in a smaller conference, with more unheralded kids, in a lesser talented region. Can it work in the SEC? See, I don't see Harsin sleeping over at a kid's house, or promising a kid they'll bring Pat Sullivan's #7 out of retirement for them to wear. I think this guy is more of an old school alpha. He isn't going to bend his principles. He truly does value culture and isn't going to take guys who will risk poisoning it. He will discipline and won't let things slide. The question is, in this age of begging and capitulating to the whims of kids, can a guy like that win? I honestly don't know. I think it's a safe bet that until Harsin wins, he is going to struggle recruiting the 5 stars. There's simply too much ass-kissery from your Kirby's, Mullen's, Kiffin's, and Orgeron's. (I wouldn't put Saban in this group, because he is one of the few coaches who still holds the power in the dynamic - he has such success with the NFL, kids will do whatever it takes and get in line to be a part of his program.) These kids who are prodigies have been told since age 11 that they are going to the league, and can choose their school. And sometimes, they aren't wrong to think that. But it creates ego monsters that aren't used to being told no. It'll be tough for Harsin to convince a kid to come be part of a tough, hard-nosed, alpha-led culture when the kid can go to UGA and be treated like a prince. But... there is a chance that some people, like Dylan Brooks, will appreciate the honesty of Harsin. Some parents will love leaving their kid with a guy who is going to actually develop their character. I know I would. I wouldn't want my kid in the hands of a coach who won't discipline him, or who will spoil him. We may win some kids that actually COULD go anywhere. So just an open question to the board. What is the likelihood a guy like Harsin can make it work in the Power 5? Will he scare off too many kids with the demands of his program, leaving him too devoid of talent to compete? Or will his culture be a hit, and create a hard-nosed juggernaut, reminiscent of old? I can't wait to see it.

Lots of guys on defense. Pritchett is gonna be a hoss. He graded really high this year. And even though they are already solid, I think the Pappoe-McClain tandem is going to be a headline.

Class rank means nothing compared to CFP rank. Gus was good at one and not so good at the other.

Whoa!!! Did this just leak?

Seth got some bigggg time karma for all the arm-flailing over missed throws from Bo. Wow. Wow.

Man. I knew we'd have some problems defensively but I didn't expect them to come from Smoke. Two quarters in and it's already easily the worst game of his career.

CLOCKING IT ON 3RD AND ONE?!?!? WHAT?!?!?!?

BS

People have talked about Seth's poor attitude. May have cost us the game right there. 0 effort to catch that ball.

We HAVE HAVE HAVE to treat Bo as a dual threat. Consider him Nick Marshall. If you want to improve his passing, force defenses to respect his legs.

I am done defending Bo's inaccuracy. WOW. YOU CAN'T COMPLETE SCREENS NOW?!