JoeBags7277 734 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. And what was the root cause of their rabble rousing? Operation Ajax, in which we deposed a democratically elected leader and placed the Shah back in power, who promptly began brutalizing his own people and undoing their own political aspirations in favor of the west. Who are they supposed to direct their anger toward? What do we expect to happen when we exert our "leadership" in such a manner? We can and absolutely should stop getting involved in conflicts that do not effect defense of our own borders- and no, that does not equate to "ISOLATIONISM!!!1!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,385 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The problem with Iraq is that we didn't stay long enough? :-\ That's good. I wonder how many generations would be 'long enough'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltigger21 0 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBags7277 734 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. That's right, you beat that straw man! Carve him up real nice!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltigger21 0 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. That's right, you beat that straw man! Carve him up real nice!!! that's what he would have us do. Unless someone directly threatened us or attacked us then we don't do anything regardless of how bad they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. not sure what he was supposed to do with putin. I am waiting to see about Iran. Its hard to judge success or failure because it is not done yet. As far as Israel you nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,385 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. "...letting Iran have nukes.." "....let Putin run wild..." Sounds like the world 'according to Tigger' features the US as global sheriff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strychnine 1,802 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. "...letting Iran have nukes.." "....let Putin run wild..." Sounds like the world 'according to Tigger' features the US as global sheriff. That's Sheriff Buford T. Justice to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japantiger 4,051 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. "...letting Iran have nukes.." "....let Putin run wild..." Sounds like the world 'according to Tigger' features the US as global sheriff. Strawman much? He owns Iran...he took away sanctions and let them off the floor...and now wants to present the false option of "his way" or war...and you and the rest of his lapdogs just lick it up....I can't for the life of me figure out why you mindlessly parrot this ass clown...Also, when he had a chance to support the opposition 3 years ago, he didn't. He showed his usual effete leadership (actually, it's the opposite of leadership...so not really leadership) and set on his hands.As for Putin, that was easy. Just give the opposition weapons to defend themselves..pretty simple...he sent the Crimea water and MRE's. I can't ever remember an invasion being stopped by MRE's. So no, we didn't need to be "sheriff"; we just needed to not be a complete tool. Unfortunately, His Toolish-ness can't help himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltigger21 0 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Alex I never said we had to be sheriff but neither can we just abandon the rest of the world and say sorry you're on your own. Like it or not as the worlds lone superpower, we have a unique spot in this world and if we don't stand up for freedom then nobody else will. It's not like we have to commit troops to a land war all the time. There are other ways. As has been said, we could have just armed the Ukrainians. Actually the Ukrainians had a military that they disarmed on the assurances from us that we'd have their back if Russia started something. They foolishly believed that promise. There are things we can do without committing to a war with our troops. If you're not willing to back up your words to tyrants then don't speak the words. Don't go drawing red lines and then backing away from it when it's crossed. If you show strength and back up your words to some, the rest will get the message. Yeah every once in a while someone will test you but if you keep the challenges beat back when they pop up instead of leading from behind and letting chaos reign, then your job is a lot easier. It's much easier to keep order than it is to bring order when there is chaos. By just breathing a bunch of hot air at Putin and Assad but not backing it up,with action the Iranians know full well we have no intention of doing anything to them if they violate any agreement they make. They also know that Obama and Kerry are desperate to make a deal and they'll practically give away the store. Your hatred of Israel has blinded you to all reality. You share that hatred with a lot of people including SOS and POTUS. If your enemies know you won't do anything to stop them then it's a free for all with all the tyrants of the world. Our friends don't trust us anymore. All this was by design. Obama has a deep problem with America. In his mind a nation that adopts a constitution that speaks of equality for all while some are held as slaves renders that nation illegitimate and the constitution irrelevant. America is a bully in his mind and it needs to be brought down to size. In his mind that's the way to peace around the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,385 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. "...letting Iran have nukes.." "....let Putin run wild..." Sounds like the world 'according to Tigger' features the US as global sheriff. Strawman much? He owns Iran...he took away sanctions and let them off the floor...and now wants to present the false option of "his way" or war...and you and the rest of his lapdogs just lick it up....I can't for the life of me figure out why you mindlessly parrot this ass clown...Also, when he had a chance to support the opposition 3 years ago, he didn't. He showed his usual eff Did it ever occur to you that I might have thought about our options independently and concluded that trying to achieve a negotiated settlement with Iran is the best way for us to proceed? I am completely baffled why anyone would think differently. To walk away from the table - as well as our coalition partners in these talks - at this point would be the absolute height of stupidity. I believe that regardless of what Obama is "presenting". So Obama aside - and after all, he is an unavoidable given - if you think we shouldn't at least try to reach a negotiated settlement with Iran regarding nuclear weapons, you are a complete fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubfaninga 16 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. "...letting Iran have nukes.." "....let Putin run wild..." Sounds like the world 'according to Tigger' features the US as global sheriff. Strawman much? He owns Iran...he took away sanctions and let them off the floor...and now wants to present the false option of "his way" or war...and you and the rest of his lapdogs just lick it up....I can't for the life of me figure out why you mindlessly parrot this ass clown...Also, when he had a chance to support the opposition 3 years ago, he didn't. He showed his usual eff Did it ever occur to you that I might have thought about our options independently and concluded that trying to achieve a negotiated settlement with Iran is the best way for us to proceed? I am completely baffled why anyone would think differently. To walk away from the table - as well as our coalition partners in these talks - at this point would be the absolute height of stupidity. I believe that whatever Obama is "presenting". So Obama aside - and after all, he is an unavoidable given - if you think we shouldn't at least try to reach a negotiated settlement with Iran regarding nuclear weapons, you are a complete fool. I'm still trying to figure out what exactly France, Germany, and the U.K. are doing. Are they just over there to serve Obama and Kerry when they get thirsty? This forum paints a picture that Obama is sitting on a throne dictating while the other nations are holding fans to keep him cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,385 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. "...letting Iran have nukes.." "....let Putin run wild..." Sounds like the world 'according to Tigger' features the US as global sheriff. Strawman much? He owns Iran...he took away sanctions and let them off the floor...and now wants to present the false option of "his way" or war...and you and the rest of his lapdogs just lick it up....I can't for the life of me figure out why you mindlessly parrot this ass clown...Also, when he had a chance to support the opposition 3 years ago, he didn't. He showed his usual eff Did it ever occur to you that I might have thought about our options independently and concluded that trying to achieve a negotiated settlement with Iran is the best way for us to proceed? I am completely baffled why anyone would think differently. To walk away from the table - as well as our coalition partners in these talks - at this point would be the absolute height of stupidity. I believe that whatever Obama is "presenting". So Obama aside - and after all, he is an unavoidable given - if you think we shouldn't at least try to reach a negotiated settlement with Iran regarding nuclear weapons, you are a complete fool. I'm still trying to figure out what exactly France, Germany, and the U.K. are doing. Are they just over there to serve Obama and Kerry when they get thirsty? This forum paints a picture that Obama is sitting on a throne dictating while the other nations are holding fans to keep him cool. Unilateral sanctions by the U.S. are hardly going to be very effective are they? And this forum paints ridiculous pictures regarding reality on a daily basis, since you haven't noticed. :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japantiger 4,051 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. "...letting Iran have nukes.." "....let Putin run wild..." Sounds like the world 'according to Tigger' features the US as global sheriff. Strawman much? He owns Iran...he took away sanctions and let them off the floor...and now wants to present the false option of "his way" or war...and you and the rest of his lapdogs just lick it up....I can't for the life of me figure out why you mindlessly parrot this ass clown...Also, when he had a chance to support the opposition 3 years ago, he didn't. He showed his usual eff Did it ever occur to you that I might have thought about our options independently and concluded that trying to achieve a negotiated settlement with Iran is the best way for us to proceed? I am completely baffled why anyone would think differently. To walk away from the table - as well as our coalition partners in these talks - at this point would be the absolute height of stupidity. I believe that regardless of what Obama is "presenting". So Obama aside - and after all, he is an unavoidable given - if you think we shouldn't at least try to reach a negotiated settlement with Iran regarding nuclear weapons, you are a complete fool. You don't negotiate anything from weakness....sort of like negotiating 101. We had them on the mat; and had the world behind us...and we let them off the mat...and worse; now we are giving them everything they want. If you came to this opinion independently, then you're as big a tool as he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltigger21 0 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. "...letting Iran have nukes.." "....let Putin run wild..." Sounds like the world 'according to Tigger' features the US as global sheriff. Strawman much? He owns Iran...he took away sanctions and let them off the floor...and now wants to present the false option of "his way" or war...and you and the rest of his lapdogs just lick it up....I can't for the life of me figure out why you mindlessly parrot this ass clown...Also, when he had a chance to support the opposition 3 years ago, he didn't. He showed his usual eff Did it ever occur to you that I might have thought about our options independently and concluded that trying to achieve a negotiated settlement with Iran is the best way for us to proceed? I am completely baffled why anyone would think differently. To walk away from the table - as well as our coalition partners in these talks - at this point would be the absolute height of stupidity. I believe that regardless of what Obama is "presenting". So Obama aside - and after all, he is an unavoidable given - if you think we shouldn't at least try to reach a negotiated settlement with Iran regarding nuclear weapons, you are a complete fool. You don't negotiate anything from weakness....sort of like negotiating 101. We had them on the mat; and had the world behind us...and we let them off the mat...and worse; now we are giving them everything they want. If you came to this opinion independently, then you're as big a tool as he is. Now you know that Obama is the messiah. Well maybe that's a bad choice of words considering so many of our leftist friends here don't believe in anything beyond themselves. Hero, yeah that's it. Fearless leader is their hero and can do no wrong. The world loves us now because he's president. There will be peace and love and we can all sit around the campfire and drink a coke singing kumbaya. and we don't ever have to worry about anything again because Barack Hussein Obama is on the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Alex I never said we had to be sheriff but neither can we just abandon the rest of the world and say sorry you're on your own. Like it or not as the worlds lone superpower, we have a unique spot in this world and if we don't stand up for freedom then nobody else will. It's not like we have to commit troops to a land war all the time. There are other ways. As has been said, we could have just armed the Ukrainians. Actually the Ukrainians had a military that they disarmed on the assurances from us that we'd have their back if Russia started something. They foolishly believed that promise. There are things we can do without committing to a war with our troops. If you're not willing to back up your words to tyrants then don't speak the words. Don't go drawing red lines and then backing away from it when it's crossed. If you show strength and back up your words to some, the rest will get the message. Yeah every once in a while someone will test you but if you keep the challenges beat back when they pop up instead of leading from behind and letting chaos reign, then your job is a lot easier. It's much easier to keep order than it is to bring order when there is chaos. By just breathing a bunch of hot air at Putin and Assad but not backing it up,with action the Iranians know full well we have no intention of doing anything to them if they violate any agreement they make. They also know that Obama and Kerry are desperate to make a deal and they'll practically give away the store. Your hatred of Israel has blinded you to all reality. You share that hatred with a lot of people including SOS and POTUS. If your enemies know you won't do anything to stop them then it's a free for all with all the tyrants of the world. Our friends don't trust us anymore. All this was by design. Obama has a deep problem with America. In his mind a nation that adopts a constitution that speaks of equality for all while some are held as slaves renders that nation illegitimate and the constitution irrelevant. America is a bully in his mind and it needs to be brought down to size. In his mind that's the way to peace around the world. i don't hate Israel. I do question their worth. I ask what this friendship costs us. I question their gift of land in 1948 That had people living on it for thousands of years that were ran off like squatters. Nobody EVER wants to talk about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,385 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. 21, it's a fact al qeda in Iraq was a result of the invasion not the cause. That is what happens when people are unjustly attacked. They fight back and usually will take any ally they can get. I don't have time to respond in full. They were already there. Saddam was giving alQaeda safe haven in return for not attacking him in all probability. We had Iraq under control. They couldn't yet handle their own security though and then we bugged out. It's not just Iraq though. Iran has been a major problem for nearly 40 years. Even had we left Saddam in place they would still be causing the same trouble they are now.You can't just focus on Iraq and say had we not done that then we wouldn't have any problems. it would be someone else's problem. But hell at only a billion $ a day. Counless lives and limbs and minds that we don't even cover the cost of care for. Why not just create reasons to stay in perpetual war. You said yourself they don't have to be a threat. We can't just sit back inside our own borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just for this discussion I'll agree it was a mistake to go in. Obama compounded the problem by pulling out prematurely and now he's about to make it even worse by letting Iran have nukes. He's let Putin run wild but since he hasn't directly threatened us then it's ok. If Iran wants to wipe out Israel hey have at it. They're nothing but trouble anyway. The world according to Alex. "...letting Iran have nukes.." "....let Putin run wild..." Sounds like the world 'according to Tigger' features the US as global sheriff. Strawman much? He owns Iran...he took away sanctions and let them off the floor...and now wants to present the false option of "his way" or war...and you and the rest of his lapdogs just lick it up....I can't for the life of me figure out why you mindlessly parrot this ass clown...Also, when he had a chance to support the opposition 3 years ago, he didn't. He showed his usual eff Did it ever occur to you that I might have thought about our options independently and concluded that trying to achieve a negotiated settlement with Iran is the best way for us to proceed? I am completely baffled why anyone would think differently. To walk away from the table - as well as our coalition partners in these talks - at this point would be the absolute height of stupidity. I believe that regardless of what Obama is "presenting". So Obama aside - and after all, he is an unavoidable given - if you think we shouldn't at least try to reach a negotiated settlement with Iran regarding nuclear weapons, you are a complete fool. You don't negotiate anything from weakness....sort of like negotiating 101. We had them on the mat; and had the world behind us...and we let them off the mat...and worse; now we are giving them everything they want. If you came to this opinion independently, then you're as big a tool as he is. Nonsense. The purpose of sanctions is to get them to agree not to build a weapon. That agreement can be obtained only through negotiations. The current negotiations are a direct result of the sanctions. If you aren't prepared to negotiate, then why have the sanctions to begin with? Sanctions are not the end. They are the means to an end. The negotiations may fail. If so, we go back to the sanctions. Hopefully that will lead to another attempt to negotiate a solution. But sanctions alone won't keep them from building a bomb. Especially if we are the only ones participating, which would be likely if we unilaterally walk away from the sanctions. To complain about the negotiations is not only illogical, it's crazy. But the proposal we should refuse to negotiate when they are willing to do so, makes no sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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