Strychnine 1,804 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 With policing being a hot topic for quite some time, it has made me look into things like prison quotas and the school-to-prison pipeline. Of course, they are really separate topics, but I also wonder about the extent to which they correlate. I won't bother to give a hundred links, just an article on each, and the Pennsylvania judge convicted for accepting bribes to incarcerate juveniles. Prison quotas: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/19/private-prison-quotas_n_3953483.html School-to-prison pipeline: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/tavissmiley/tsr/education-under-arrest/school-to-prison-pipeline-fact-sheet/ Judge Ciavarella: http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/08/12/pennsylvania.judge.sentenced/ Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,513 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Very hard to rationalize those school statistics. The "quota" and juvenile kickback articles are simply appalling. Sounds like something from a third world company. That's what happens if you apply market theory to the criminal system. It's encouraging to see Judge Ciavarella brought to account though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUUSN 823 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Got to feed the prision monster. Too much is at stake to the police state so we have people being pulled over for 'staring.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telling tiger 156 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 https://www.aclu.org/blog/how-starve-profit-prison-beast?redirect=blog/criminal-law-reform-prisoners-rights/how-starve-profit-prison-beast If SOME LEOs profiled rednecks like they do AF/AM's, we'd be having us one of them thar revolutions, yee haw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,542 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 The privatized, for-profit prison system needs to go away completely. There's a terrible conflict of interest between justice and profits when prisons are made to be something a company can make money off of. By the very nature of things, the goal of a private prison is to make more money and the way you make more money is to increase the prison population. On the contrary, the government has incentive to keep the prison population under control so that costs don't spiral out of control. This is one of those things where private vs public falls completely on the side of public being the better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telling tiger 156 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Yep.....corporate prisons create demand for one thing....Prisoners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autigeremt 6,776 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 This issue needs to be addressed and the current administration should have done something about it by now. Priorities I guess. There are some things that should never be privatized. This is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 The privatized, for-profit prison system needs to go away completely. There's a terrible conflict of interest between justice and profits when prisons are made to be something a company can make money off of. By the very nature of things, the goal of a private prison is to make more money and the way you make more money is to increase the prison population. On the contrary, the government has incentive to keep the prison population under control so that costs don't spiral out of control. This is one of those things where private vs public falls completely on the side of public being the better option. i agree. We have plenty of people in need of incarceration that don't get enough of it in Alabama. We let them out too soon. Demand don't need any help here. Privatizing not only gives wrong incentive for demand but would lead to lower salary and benefits for prison staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I can't remember which state it was, but a state signed a contract with a prominent private prison company and one of th peculiar stipulations was that the prison should be at least 80% full at all times. That is inherently wrong. Having private prisons may not be inherently wrong but those kind of systems only leads to corruption like this . It's of my opinion that private prisons shouldn't be putting people away anyway, the government should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,464 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 This issue needs to be addressed and the current administration should have done something about it by now. Priorities I guess. There are some things that should never be privatized. This is one of them. You socialist. The private sector does everything cheaper and better. The current administration? You want the administration to mandate state prison standards? Figures a socialist like yourself would want the feds to take over. SMH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,464 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Good Lord. These comments make me sick. All of you are socialists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strychnine 1,804 Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 This issue needs to be addressed and the current administration should have done something about it by now. Priorities I guess. There are some things that should never be privatized. This is one of them. The current administration did at least take a stab at mandatory minimum sentences, which is a good start. As it is ultimately a problem at both state and federal levels, meaningful reform will require cooperation between both of those levels (which is not very likely). One administration cannot really correct a problem that has festered for decades, extends well into the state level, and has enjoyed the backing of Wall Street and the influence that comes with it. You (and several others) are indeed correct that corrections is something that should have never been privatized. There is absolutely no incentive to do anything to reduce incarceration rates, and plenty of incentive not to. That is a large workforce, for whom work is mandatory, and they can legally be paid less than $1/hour to produce things for private companies. I think that is probably what disturbs me the most about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,513 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Good Lord. These comments make me sick. All of you are socialists. I agree. This is the perfect example of how the government is trying to take over private businesses. Oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
channonc 466 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I wish we would actually have a conversation in this country about the negative effect this mass incarceration is having on our society as a whole. There are certainly some bad people out there that should never see anything outside of prison walls, but those people really are few and far between. The private prison industry literally makes me sick to my stomach. I just don't think it's right on any level and agree with Titan, it should end immediately. Unfortunately, I think some people make mistakes, but not ones that can't be overcome. However, I think our system is not really designed to ever let anyone climb out of the hole so to speak. Just one example, it is very hard for anyone who has served any amount of time to even be considered for gainful employment. Even if those folks participate in job training programs, and prove they have marketable skills, most employers won't even consider them because they have checked a box saying they have been convicted of a crime, or have served time. Some of these folks end up either out on the streets with nothing or sucked back into making poor choices because it's their only real way to survive. On the Judge Ciavarella case, there's a great documentary up on Netflix about him and another judge called "Kids for Cash". Check it out. Judge Ciavarella is interviewed along with some of the kids he put away. Sad stories, and some of their families are still dealing with major issues over things that really should have been handled by the school-- not the courts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,464 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Good Lord. These comments make me sick. All of you are socialists. I agree. This is the perfect example of how the government is trying to take over private businesses. Oh wait... Yes but, it is a great debate for the ideological dummies. The real issue here is corruption. And, corrupt individuals in the private and public sector are promoting and profiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autigeremt 6,776 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Good Lord. These comments make me sick. All of you are socialists. I agree. This is the perfect example of how the government is trying to take over private businesses. Oh wait... All OR NOTHING.....right on cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autigeremt 6,776 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I wish we would actually have a conversation in this country about the negative effect this mass incarceration is having on our society as a whole. There are certainly some bad people out there that should never see anything outside of prison walls, but those people really are few and far between. The private prison industry literally makes me sick to my stomach. I just don't think it's right on any level and agree with Titan, it should end immediately. Unfortunately, I think some people make mistakes, but not ones that can't be overcome. However, I think our system is not really designed to ever let anyone climb out of the hole so to speak. Just one example, it is very hard for anyone who has served any amount of time to even be considered for gainful employment. Even if those folks participate in job training programs, and prove they have marketable skills, most employers won't even consider them because they have checked a box saying they have been convicted of a crime, or have served time. Some of these folks end up either out on the streets with nothing or sucked back into making poor choices because it's their only real way to survive. On the Judge Ciavarella case, there's a great documentary up on Netflix about him and another judge called "Kids for Cash". Check it out. Judge Ciavarella is interviewed along with some of the kids he put away. Sad stories, and some of their families are still dealing with major issues over things that really should have been handled by the school-- not the courts. This is SPOT ON! "Unfortunately, I think some people make mistakes, but not ones that can't be overcome. However, I think our system is not really designed to ever let anyone climb out of the hole so to speak." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,464 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Good Lord. These comments make me sick. All of you are socialists. I agree. This is the perfect example of how the government is trying to take over private businesses. Oh wait... All OR NOTHING.....right on cue. I thought he was expressing his opposition to the "all or nothing" mentality, the ideological idiots? You know, those who believe in the absolute perfection of capitalism and the private sector and, the absolute imperfection of anything public or social. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
channonc 466 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Somewhat on topic: Young black man jailed since April for alleged $5 theft found dead in his cell If only we would also spend time focusing on ways to help the mentally ill, such as the kid above. These folks should not be clogging up our prison system and be sanctioned in a system full of quotas, but rather should be in treatment programs with social workers who can help guide not only the individual, but the families involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I wish we would actually have a conversation in this country about the negative effect this mass incarceration is having on our society as a whole. There are certainly some bad people out there that should never see anything outside of prison walls, but those people really are few and far between. The private prison industry literally makes me sick to my stomach. I just don't think it's right on any level and agree with Titan, it should end immediately. Unfortunately, I think some people make mistakes, but not ones that can't be overcome. However, I think our system is not really designed to ever let anyone climb out of the hole so to speak. Just one example, it is very hard for anyone who has served any amount of time to even be considered for gainful employment. Even if those folks participate in job training programs, and prove they have marketable skills, most employers won't even consider them because they have checked a box saying they have been convicted of a crime, or have served time. Some of these folks end up either out on the streets with nothing or sucked back into making poor choices because it's their only real way to survive. On the Judge Ciavarella case, there's a great documentary up on Netflix about him and another judge called "Kids for Cash". Check it out. Judge Ciavarella is interviewed along with some of the kids he put away. Sad stories, and some of their families are still dealing with major issues over things that really should have been handled by the school-- not the courts. that part is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,542 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I wish we would actually have a conversation in this country about the negative effect this mass incarceration is having on our society as a whole. There are certainly some bad people out there that should never see anything outside of prison walls, but those people really are few and far between. The private prison industry literally makes me sick to my stomach. I just don't think it's right on any level and agree with Titan, it should end immediately. Unfortunately, I think some people make mistakes, but not ones that can't be overcome. However, I think our system is not really designed to ever let anyone climb out of the hole so to speak. Just one example, it is very hard for anyone who has served any amount of time to even be considered for gainful employment. Even if those folks participate in job training programs, and prove they have marketable skills, most employers won't even consider them because they have checked a box saying they have been convicted of a crime, or have served time. Some of these folks end up either out on the streets with nothing or sucked back into making poor choices because it's their only real way to survive. On the Judge Ciavarella case, there's a great documentary up on Netflix about him and another judge called "Kids for Cash". Check it out. Judge Ciavarella is interviewed along with some of the kids he put away. Sad stories, and some of their families are still dealing with major issues over things that really should have been handled by the school-- not the courts. that part is incorrect. No, you are incorrect. People in this country who never deserve to see freedom again ARE few and far between. As of 2012, we only have 109,000 people serving life sentence with no chance of parole. That's .034% of the population. And that's assuming that none of them were falsely accused and are innocent of the crime. channonc's remark is accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I wish we would actually have a conversation in this country about the negative effect this mass incarceration is having on our society as a whole. There are certainly some bad people out there that should never see anything outside of prison walls, but those people really are few and far between. The private prison industry literally makes me sick to my stomach. I just don't think it's right on any level and agree with Titan, it should end immediately. Unfortunately, I think some people make mistakes, but not ones that can't be overcome. However, I think our system is not really designed to ever let anyone climb out of the hole so to speak. Just one example, it is very hard for anyone who has served any amount of time to even be considered for gainful employment. Even if those folks participate in job training programs, and prove they have marketable skills, most employers won't even consider them because they have checked a box saying they have been convicted of a crime, or have served time. Some of these folks end up either out on the streets with nothing or sucked back into making poor choices because it's their only real way to survive. On the Judge Ciavarella case, there's a great documentary up on Netflix about him and another judge called "Kids for Cash". Check it out. Judge Ciavarella is interviewed along with some of the kids he put away. Sad stories, and some of their families are still dealing with major issues over things that really should have been handled by the school-- not the courts. that part is incorrect. No, you are incorrect. People in this country who never deserve to see freedom again ARE few and far between. As of 2012, we only have 109,000 people serving life sentence with no chance of parole. That's .034% of the population. And that's assuming that none of them were falsely accused and are innocent of the crime. channonc's remark is accurate. my opinion which is proven correct time and time again is many many more deserve prison than get it. the ones who go don't stay long enough. very very few go on their first or second or third offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 the dogma, that if you stop enforcing laws and lessen penalties crime and victimization will get better is beyond the most insane fairy tales. it is on par with the idea of outsourcing jobs to china and mexico improves our economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I wish we would actually have a conversation in this country about the negative effect this mass incarceration is having on our society as a whole. There are certainly some bad people out there that should never see anything outside of prison walls, but those people really are few and far between. The private prison industry literally makes me sick to my stomach. I just don't think it's right on any level and agree with Titan, it should end immediately. Unfortunately, I think some people make mistakes, but not ones that can't be overcome. However, I think our system is not really designed to ever let anyone climb out of the hole so to speak. Just one example, it is very hard for anyone who has served any amount of time to even be considered for gainful employment. Even if those folks participate in job training programs, and prove they have marketable skills, most employers won't even consider them because they have checked a box saying they have been convicted of a crime, or have served time. Some of these folks end up either out on the streets with nothing or sucked back into making poor choices because it's their only real way to survive. On the Judge Ciavarella case, there's a great documentary up on Netflix about him and another judge called "Kids for Cash". Check it out. Judge Ciavarella is interviewed along with some of the kids he put away. Sad stories, and some of their families are still dealing with major issues over things that really should have been handled by the school-- not the courts. that part is incorrect. No, you are incorrect. People in this country who never deserve to see freedom again ARE few and far between. As of 2012, we only have 109,000 people serving life sentence with no chance of parole. That's .034% of the population. And that's assuming that none of them were falsely accused and are innocent of the crime. channonc's remark is accurate. my opinion which is proven correct time and time again is many many more deserve prison than get it. the ones who go don't stay long enough. very very few go on their first or second or third offense. Why don't you give an example of a crime that justifies a prison sentence but yet the criminal doesn't go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
channonc 466 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I wish we would actually have a conversation in this country about the negative effect this mass incarceration is having on our society as a whole. There are certainly some bad people out there that should never see anything outside of prison walls, but those people really are few and far between. The private prison industry literally makes me sick to my stomach. I just don't think it's right on any level and agree with Titan, it should end immediately. Unfortunately, I think some people make mistakes, but not ones that can't be overcome. However, I think our system is not really designed to ever let anyone climb out of the hole so to speak. Just one example, it is very hard for anyone who has served any amount of time to even be considered for gainful employment. Even if those folks participate in job training programs, and prove they have marketable skills, most employers won't even consider them because they have checked a box saying they have been convicted of a crime, or have served time. Some of these folks end up either out on the streets with nothing or sucked back into making poor choices because it's their only real way to survive. On the Judge Ciavarella case, there's a great documentary up on Netflix about him and another judge called "Kids for Cash". Check it out. Judge Ciavarella is interviewed along with some of the kids he put away. Sad stories, and some of their families are still dealing with major issues over things that really should have been handled by the school-- not the courts. that part is incorrect. No, you are incorrect. People in this country who never deserve to see freedom again ARE few and far between. As of 2012, we only have 109,000 people serving life sentence with no chance of parole. That's .034% of the population. And that's assuming that none of them were falsely accused and are innocent of the crime. channonc's remark is accurate. my opinion which is proven correct time and time again is many many more deserve prison than get it. the ones who go don't stay long enough. very very few go on their first or second or third offense. Sure some deserve prison, but not all of those deserve LIFE in prison. Once people are released after paying their debt to society, then what. Right now, we have a system so stacked against them that they will likely reoffend even if they WANT a better life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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