That "swatting" case

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https://reason.com/blog/2018/01/02/heres-a-novel-idea-both-caller-and-polic

Quote

A Los Angeles man has been arrested for telling police a hostage situation was underway at a home in Wichita, Kansas. His claim was a lie, and the police fatally shot a man in the ensuing raid.

Tyler Barriss, 25, is accused of calling city hall in Wichita claiming that a shooting and hostage situation were unfolding at a local home. Barriss apparently was attempting a "swatting" prank on somebody he was having an argument with online over the video game Call of Duty.

"Swatting" pranks are nasty stunts where a caller draws a SWAT team out to an innocent party's home by calling the authorities and pretending a dangerous crimeis taking place there. They've grown increasingly popular over the past few years as a way of frightening or getting revenge on somebody.

Barriss was not having a dispute with Andrew Finch, 28, a father of two in Wichita, nor anybody else at the address he sent police to. The person Barriss was arguing with had given him a fake address. A SWAT team showed up at Finch's door, and when he went outside to see what was going on, a police officer shot and killed him.

This appears to be the first time somebody has been killed by a swatting prank, though people have previously been shot and injured. Barriss has a criminal background and was previously arrested for calling in phony bomb threats to ABC Studios in Los Angeles.

An example of how pioneering this case is: Right now the police and prosecutors don't seem able to tell the media what Barriss is actually being charged with. He's being held on a felony warrant without a bond, but the charges might not be revealed until his first court appearance this week.

The case has unfortunately quickly and predictably turned into a "Who's to blame?" question. It's literally in the headline of New York Times' coverage of Finch's death: "Fatal 'Swatting' Episode in Kansas Raises Quandary: Who Is to Blame?" Is it Barriss, who fabricated a crime? Or is it the officer, who shot an unarmed, innocent man?

This is a false dilemma. Both are to blame.

 

But don't expect any justice for the dead.

 

There were five people involved in this incident:

1. The guy that gave out a random address

2. The guy that 'hired' the swatter and gave the random address with the intent to have it swatted

3. The swatter himself that placed the hoax 911 call

4. The officer on the SWAT team that arrived on scene and killed...

5. The innocent victim living at the random address

It is my opinion that persons 2, 3 and 4 deserve time behind bars.

 

I expect sensible people in the thread to agree on two things about the officer, though:

1. He should go to jail

2. He will never go to jail

[alexava 6,973]

when will people grow the f up?

[homersapien 11,440]

This is a thing?  Holy s***!

Only in America. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by homersapien

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36 minutes ago, homersapien said:

This is a thing?  Holy s***!

Only in America. 

Hell, I’m surprised it took this long for someone to actually get killed in one of these. 

He was 28 with two children. Now those two kids are fatherless because of two COD playing ******* a**holes. He opened his front door and was immediately shot. He died for nothing. 

I hope the gamers involved go down ******* hard for this to dissuade others from swatting each other. I hope this cop goes down hard too for shooting this man with no questions asked. And while it won’t bring their father back, I hope those children are taken care of financially for a good long time. 

Even if it was a legitimate hostage situation, it’s possible that the criminal inside would send a hostage to the door. The cop could’ve shot a hostage. This is at least manslaughter in my eyes.

I know it’s been recommended here several times, but Radley Balko’s Rise of the Warrior Cop is an absolute must read regarding the state of policing in our country.

[bigbird 60,580]

Question.  How did the shooting incident occur? Not saying the victim was at fault in the least, he isn't at all. Just seeing if there was anything to perpetuate the shooting once he left the house.

[homersapien 11,440]

15 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Question.  How did the shooting incident occur? Not saying the victim was at fault in the least, he isn't at all. Just seeing if there was anything to perpetuate the shooting once he left the house.

You mean like not placing his hands on his head before crossing the threshold?  

I understand the natural inclination to give the cop swat team member the benefit of doubt, and it may be he feels he made a colossal mistake and feels nothing but remorse and guilt, but if so, that only emphasizes the problem - which is the over militarization of law enforcement.  

If this is a "cop" we have a problem.  

Edited January 4, 2018 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,440]

56 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

Hell, I’m surprised it took this long for someone to actually get killed in one of these. 

He was 28 with two children. Now those two kids are fatherless because of two COD playing ******* a**holes. He opened his front door and was immediately shot. He died for nothing. 

I hope the gamers involved go down ******* hard for this to dissuade others from swatting each other. I hope this cop goes down hard too for shooting this man with no questions asked. And while it won’t bring their father back, I hope those children are taken care of financially for a good long time. 

Even if it was a legitimate hostage situation, it’s possible that the criminal inside would send a hostage to the door. The cop could’ve shot a hostage. This is at least manslaughter in my eyes.

I know it’s been recommended here several times, but Radley Balko’s Rise of the Warrior Cop is an absolute must read regarding the state of policing in our country.

Thanks for the reference.  I just reserved it. 

I imagine that most public libraries have it.

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6 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Question.  How did the shooting incident occur? Not saying the victim was at fault in the least, he isn't at all. Just seeing if there was anything to perpetuate the shooting once he left the house.

In the very grainy dark footage they released from 50 yards away it does look like the guy makes a sudden movement. They will say it was justified because the guy was reaching to pull up his pants or something stupid. There will an investigation, the jumpy officer will be back on duty within a few months.

Which is quite ****** when you think about it, like a game of Simon Says where you have guns pointed at you, confusing instructions shouted at you and will die the moment you make a mistake.

Say you forget to wear a belt one day, cops show up at your door guns drawn and say you will die and you haven't the slightest clue why. Maybe you flinch.

Boom.

Now your kids don't have a father.

[bigbird 60,580]

1 minute ago, Bigbens42 said:

In the very grainy dark footage they released from 50 yards away it does look like the guy makes a sudden movement. They will say it was justified because the guy was reaching to pull up his pants or something stupid. There will an investigation, the jumpy officer will be back on duty within a few months.

Which is quite ****** when you think about it, like a game of Simon Says where you have guns pointed at you, confusing instructions shouted at you and will die the moment you make a mistake.

Say you forget to wear a belt one day, cops show up at your door guns drawn and say you will die and you haven't the slightest clue why. Maybe you flinch.

Boom.

Now your kids don't have a father.

I agree. Unlike many that look for arguments here, I am not. I think it's tragic.  A man lost his life and a man took it...both are travesties. My question was not an attempt to lay blame on any, but whether there was blatant police maleficence or if there was some sort of mitigating factor that makes this even more tragic.

 

IMO, the cop is not responsible for the situation, but he is culpable in the outcome. I would hate to be placed in his situation and do feel bad for his mistake. He has ruined the lives of the family and his as well. There are no winners. Thanks for your response, Ben.

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Speaking of Mr. Balko.

 

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25 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I agree. Unlike many that look for arguments here, I am not. I think it's tragic.  A man lost his life and a man took it...both are travesties. My question was not an attempt to lay blame on any, but whether there was blatant police maleficence or if there was some sort of mitigating factor that makes this even more tragic.

 

IMO, the cop is not responsible for the situation, but he is culpable in the outcome. I would hate to be placed in his situation and do feel bad for his mistake. He has ruined the lives of the family and his as well. There are no winners. Thanks for your response, Ben.

And I don’t entirely blame the police on the individual level for the way things are, though I do believe a manslaughter charge is appropriate here. The system sucks. As I said a month ago, it’s all a big dumb machine that eats fear and spits out tragedy. 

[bigbird 60,580]

1 minute ago, Bigbens42 said:

And I don’t entirely blame the police on the individual level for the way things are, though I do believe a manslaughter charge is appropriate here. The system sucks. As I said a month ago, it’s all a big dumb machine that eats fear and spits out tragedy. 

Agreed with the manslaughter charge.  There are times where things are truly no win situations. Conversely, there are situations that  can be handled much more appropriately. I don't envy officer's and the decisions they have to make. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 11:25 AM, Bigbens42 said:

There were five people involved in this incident:

1. The guy that gave out a random address

2. The guy that 'hired' the swatter and gave the random address with the intent to have it swatted

3. The swatter himself that placed the hoax 911 call

4. The officer on the SWAT team that arrived on scene and killed...

5. The innocent victim living at the random address

It is my opinion that persons 2, 3 and 4 deserve time behind bars.

 

I expect sensible people in the thread to agree on two things about the officer, though:

1. He should go to jail

2. He will never go to jail

You are spot on here.  Reading through the thread, your thought on manslaughter sounds right for the officer as well.  The question I have is what do you charge people 2 & 3 with?  Off the top of my head, I can't think of the right thing to charge him with.

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15 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

You are spot on here.  Reading through the thread, your thought on manslaughter sounds right for the officer as well.  The question I have is what do you charge people 2 & 3 with?  Off the top of my head, I can't think of the right thing to charge him with.

I’m pretty sure Kansas has a felony murder statute. 

[bigbird 60,580]

32 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

You are spot on here.  Reading through the thread, your thought on manslaughter sounds right for the officer as well.  The question I have is what do you charge people 2 & 3 with?  Off the top of my head, I can't think of the right thing to charge him with.

The only thing I could think of would be something along the lines of criminal mischief...Maybe some sort of accessory charge?

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Just now, bigbird said:

The only thing I could think of would be something along the lines of criminal mischief. Maybe some sort of accessory charge?

It’s complicated. They can meet the mental burden for 2nd degree murder. The causation link is where they will have trouble. 

[bigbird 60,580]

Could there possibly be a conspiracy type charge for 2 & 3?

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34 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Could there possibly be a conspiracy type charge for 2 & 3?

Possibly. I’m curious how the DA hashes it out. Barriss will at least get hit with a low level felony of obstruction of legal process or official duty initially. It will be up to the DA to figure out where to go from there. 

[homersapien 11,440]

6 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

You are spot on here.  Reading through the thread, your thought on manslaughter sounds right for the officer as well.  The question I have is what do you charge people 2 & 3 with?  Off the top of my head, I can't think of the right thing to charge him with.

Conspiracy to .......? 

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A good read.

By now, most of you have probably seen this story:

Online gamers have said in multiple Twitter posts that the shooting of a man Thursday night by Wichita police was the result of a “swatting” prank involving two gamers.

Swatting is an internet prank where someone makes a call to a police department with a false story of an ongoing crime – often with killing or hostages involved – in an attempt to draw a large number of police officers to a particular address.

The prank has gained traction across the country with online gamers. Those who try to cause the swatting incident will use caller ID spoofing or other techniques to disguise their number as being local. Or they call local non-emergency numbers instead of 911, according to 911.gov. …

[Deputy Wichita Police Chief Troy] Livingston said the department received a call that someone had an argument with their mother, that the father had been shot in the head and the shooter was holding his mother, brother and sister hostage.

“That was the information we were working off of,” he said.

Officers went to the 1000 block of McCormick, preparing for a hostage situation and they “got into position,” he said.

“A male came to the front door,” Livingston said. “As he came to the front door, one of our officers discharged his weapon.”

That man was 28-year-old Andrew Finch. He was killed. He leaves behind two young children.

Finch was innocent and unarmed. Here’s some relevant commentary from defense attorney Scott Greenfield:

There’s body cam video of the shooting, but the cops were a good distance away from Finch and the video provides little insight. You can hear a cop yell “show your hands, walk this way.” To the cop, who knows why he’s taking charge, his commands make sense. To a good guy, who couldn’t possibly conceive of why a distant cop was yelling at him, it makes no sense.

There is a good chance he wasn’t sure they were yelling at him, and he was looking around to see who else they might be screaming at. The idea that police would command him to “show his hands,” not the clearest phrase to a good guy to begin with, must have seemed absurd. Why would a cop tell him to show his hands? He was in his home, with his family, having an ordinary evening.

Finch was unarmed. He didn’t have any object in his hand that might have been mistaken for a gun, even though there would have been nothing wrong, nothing even unusual, if he had. The cops saw no glint of steel. They weren’t open and exposed, but distant and protected. But the cops had it in their head that he was a killer, and so they saw his every move as a killer’s move

Continue at the link. 

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17 hours ago, homersapien said:

Conspiracy to .......? 

Kansas has a broad conspiracy law. They could easily ring them up for the false report. 

[alexava 6,973]

My head hurts. 

[homersapien 11,440]

5 hours ago, Bigbens42 said:

Kansas has a broad conspiracy law. They could easily ring them up for the false report. 

The problem is making it a "capital case"?,  as it should be.

This incident could inspire legislation to remedy that, if needed. Of course there's always the civil jeapardy, but that just doesn't send the message like a criminal charge.

Edited January 6, 2018 by homersapien

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44 minutes ago, homersapien said:

The problem is making it a "capital case" (?),  as it should be.

This incident could inspire legislation to remedy that if it's not available.

As I said before, they can easily meet the mental burden for a charge of depraved heart (2nd degree) murder. The stretch will come from the causation aspect. Not much precedent here, so it will be a stretch. Swatting is uncharted territory. 

But they do have some precedent that they could reasonably apply. 

https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/2638740/state-v-anderson/

Suspect fled, leading to a high speed chase. Officer didn't yield at a stop sign, causing a crash that resulted in the death of an innocent motorist. Suspect was found culpable in the other motorist's death, as was the officer. 

So how to stretch it to apply? 

The suspect fled, leading to a high speed chase. He created a situation where other motorists were in danger. Apply that to falsely reporting a hostage situations, when the police will obviously come in on edge. 

Even though the officer's failure to yield resulted in the innocent bystander's death he (suspect) could have reasonably expected such an outcome. Apply the actions of the swatters to that standard. Could he have reasonably assumed that a shooting was possible here? I think it's certainly plausible. 

We'll just have to see. It's a hard one to hash out. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Bigbens42

[homersapien 11,440]

It's even worse than the high speed chase example, in that it's more pre-meditated and deliberate.  Intent is still an attenuating factor though. 

I hope these idiots have some assets for the widow to go after.