SEC Recruiting Class Casualties

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

For the recent recruiting class (Feb. 2005) bama leads the SEC in casualties with 8.

5 failed to qualify (Forbes, Ford, Jennings, Kyles and Ricks. 3 others are not on the roster of 105 (Burnthall, Harvey and Sikes) .

Auburn only had 2 casualties, Sharpe and Harness. Both are in JC.

The only schools doing better than Auburn were Fla. and LSU with one each and Vandy with none.

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

In all fairness, they oversigned because they knew this type of thing would happen. Does it make it right? Ehhhh, who knows? They knew some of these guys wouldn't qualify, but when they get out of JUCO or prep school in a few years, Bama has the leg up in their recruiting.

We had done the same thing, especially with basketball players. It is a technique. Just like greyshirts, which I find a more shady way of skirting scholarship limitations.

Get it...grey...shady....is this thing on?

[auwallace 6]

In all fairness, they oversigned because they knew this type of thing would happen.  Does it make it right?  Ehhhh, who knows?  They knew some of these guys wouldn't qualify, but when they get out of JUCO or prep school in a few years, Bama has the leg up in their recruiting. 

We had done the same thing, especially with basketball players.  It is a technique.  Just like greyshirts, which I find a more shady way of skirting scholarship limitations. 

   

Get it...grey...shady....is this thing on?

186729[/snapback]

I agree, but i do think that it is wrong to oversign players because you know some won't qualify. If a team is doing this then that means they are taking anyone and everyone who comes along with talent. The numbers just further justify what that CTT is building a program that will not only be consistently talented but consistently unified.

[chuck 0]

Wow - I don't think I could disagree more.

If a player isn't going to qualify - why SHOULDN'T a team sign him anyway and show they are committed to him as an athlete. Then you can monitor him in JUCO or Prep School, and resign him when he makes his grades.

However, meanwhile, you don't want to NOT use all of your scholarships, therefore, you sign additional players to make your team as strong as possible.

Then in a few years, you still have the guys you signed + hopefully the guys you originally wanted, but academically eligable.

I not only think oversigning is ok, but its actually a better deal for the athletes who want scholarships and want to play for specific teams.

[auwallace 6]

Wow - I don't think I could disagree more.

If a player isn't going to qualify - why SHOULDN'T a team sign him anyway and show they are committed to him as an athlete.  Then you can monitor him in JUCO or Prep School, and resign him when he makes his grades.

However, meanwhile, you don't want to NOT use all of your scholarships, therefore, you sign additional players to make your team as strong as possible.

Then in a few years, you still have the guys you signed + hopefully the guys you originally wanted, but academically eligable.

I not only think oversigning is ok, but its actually a better deal for the athletes who want scholarships and want to play for specific teams.

186773[/snapback]

so you get a group of kids who couldn't make an 18 on an act or pass remedial math in high school? so you get kids who only have two years in the system? Do you not think that these kids could also be an academic reliability, esp. today when graduation rates actually matter? I agree some of them will turn their lives around but they are the exception not the rule, if these kids couldn't pass high school classes then they definitely won't be able to handle college.

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

So, you give up on a kid that might have a problem taking standardized tests, but has good grades otherwise and can rush the passer like a pit bull after a bassett hound, only to have him show up two years later and wreak havoc in your backfield because you gave up on him?

I agree, it is a fine line, but if a kid is a good kid, maybe has a problem with advanced algebra, but is interested in making something better out of his life, we sign and place him and hopefully, he gets all his academic issues straight and becomes a productive member of society.

Ever seen that horrible Tom Cruise movie where they predict who commits crimes in the future and eliminate them before they happen? Sounds like we are getting closer to that with refusing to sign and place these marginal guys.

[auwallace 6]

i guess i'm still living under the assumption that there is still such a thing as a student athelete. From what i've seen as a GTA at AU there really isn't.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

This practice may be good for the moment but it inevitably bites you down the road (it is a short term band aid for coaches somewhat under pressure to produce in the near term). Otherwise everybody would do it. It may result in a good story for one or two kids but it is not a good practice for the program as a whole.

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

There is, wallace. I think the last one at Auburn was Gregg Carr (bonus points for those that remember Dr. Carr when he played a mean LB.)

Seriously, there are plenty of student athletes out there. Nine of the seniors on this team have already graduated, most without the benefit of redshirts or crip majors (Obamanu and Guess come to mind quickly.)

There are also plenty of rich kids that parents buy their way into college and they party their way out. I would rather sign and place a David Irons rather than get a Willie Williams or whatever that thug's name was anyday of the week. Just because a kid isn't teh smartest doesn't mean he can't be successful in college.

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

This practice may be good for the moment but it inevitably bites you down the road  (it is a short term band aid for coaches somewhat under pressure to produce in the near term). Otherwise everybody would do it.  It may result in a good story for one or two kids but it is not a good practice for the program as a whole.

186804[/snapback]

How is it an immediate bandaid? You are banking an a kid that may or may not sign again in two years? It is taking a calculated risk that you might get the kid for a max of three years down the road. Signing JUCO players wholesale is bad, but we have several on our team right now that are playing important roles that are JUCO players.

Anyone remember Cobb...ok, bad example..anyone remember Rudi Johnson? He was a JUCO player that was at Auburn ONE YEAR. He filled an important need and was a "band-aid". Oversigning and placing kids is a practice that everyone uses. It produces no production in the near term. Signing JUCO players after they get done playing JUCO does, but is also a good thing if used in the proper and restricted way.

[auwallace 6]

There is, wallace.  I think the last one at Auburn was Gregg Carr (bonus points for those that remember Dr. Carr when he played a mean LB.)

Seriously, there are plenty of student athletes out there.  Nine of the seniors on this team have already graduated, most without the benefit of redshirts or crip majors (Obamanu and Guess come to mind quickly.) 

There are also plenty of rich kids that parents buy their way into college and they party their way out.  I would rather sign and place a David Irons rather than get a Willie Williams or whatever that thug's name was anyday of the week.  Just because a kid isn't teh smartest doesn't mean he can't be successful in college.

186805[/snapback]

i know there are good kids who graduate but football players are always in the same classes (the easiet ones) and they all get special attention, i'm not going to name any names but i know of a player last year who didn't have to give his speeches in front of the class like everybody else, they also are each assigned advisors who handle all their problems and make sure they don't fail out. I still say that signing lots of potential non-qualifiiers is harmful to a program in the long run. By the way the reason that auburn has graduated more players is because we don't sign a large amount of non qualifiers.

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

Agreed that a large number is bad, but onsies, twosies can be ok.

Back to the original thoughts, yes, 8 is probably a bit excessive.

I will let the coaches make the determination on individual cases.

Good info, wallace. I see your points.

[auwallace 6]

thanks that was a friendly exchange with no name calling, there are some folks on this board that could learn from that.

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

thanks that was a friendly exchange with no name calling, there are some folks on this board that could learn from that.

186821[/snapback]

Completely agree. Even my smart aleck comments were not enough to make anyone mad (well, you at least) and they are never meant that way.

Maybe Titan Tiger will give us some kind of special "Courteous Poster" award.

[Jenny AU-92 0]

Maybe Titan Tiger will give us some kind of special "Courteous Poster" award.

186828[/snapback]

There aren't any gold stars in the emoticons list, so you'll have to settle for a happy puppy. Who doesn't like a happy puppy!

:puppy:

[chuck 0]

I think there are a lot of JUCO type players that you can see at Auburn who have benefitted from oversigning . .

Anthony Mix, David Irons Jr, Rudi Johnson, Javor Mills, Brandon Jacobs, etc. etc. .

I just don't see how its a bad thing . . .if they don't get in, they don't come to school, if they don't prove they have earned the right to come back (Forrest Tucker), they don't come back . .

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

Not to pick nits, but Rudi wasn't an oversign, the coaches saw him when they were recruiting Cobb and offered him a chance to play at Auburn.

That JUCO transfer worked out well for all parties.

[auwallace 6]

I think there are a lot of JUCO type players that you can see at Auburn who have benefitted from oversigning . .

Anthony Mix, David Irons Jr, Rudi Johnson, Javor Mills, Brandon Jacobs, etc. etc. .

I just don't see how its a bad thing . . .if they don't get in, they don't come to school, if they don't prove they have earned the right to come back (Forrest Tucker), they don't come back . .

187007[/snapback]

anthony mix wasn't a juco.......straight out of bay minette to the plains, and etc., etc. haven't played before. There players who we have signed that have contributed out of juco, however it needs to be a limited practice, juco players don't build depth, they fix depth problems for a short time.