"Internal problems caused controversy"

[DKW 86 7,426]

http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/s...729/profs.shtml

AU profs say internal problems caused controversy

By Desiree Hunter

Associated Press Writer

MONTGOMERY — Professors within the Auburn University department where dozens of students were allowed to take independent study courses say the practice grew from an ongoing struggle over the need for more faculty and was not an attempt to help athletes get better grades.

Professor Greg Kowalski said the issue has been a perennial problem in the Sociology, Anthropology, Social Work, Criminology and Criminal Justice Department, where the number of majors tripled but the number of faculty declined over the last 15 years.

It hit a record 695 majors, with just 15 faculty members, in the 2004-05 academic year. That's the same year sociology professor Thomas Petee is accused of letting 250 students — including 18 athletes — take directed studies courses, which allow students to meet privately with professors rather than attend regular classes.

Auburn began an internal review of the matter, which gained wide attention after The New York Times reported that the football players and other athletes who took the courses made far better grades in those classes than in their other schoolwork.

Mark Konty, a professor who heads the department's graduate studies program, said the problem stems from too few faculty for an increasing number of students and that the case has been blown "way, way out of proportion."

He said a report presented in February by Petee showed how the department, which had 208 majors and 17 faculty members in 1990-91, had failed to keep pace as the demand grew 300 percent.

"This is an internal curriculum matter, period," he said Friday. "The only reason it made it into the press is because of the hook that athletes are taking the classes."

In this week's editions of The Auburn Villager, a new local weekly, Petee said he offered the courses to help students who only needed a class or two more to graduate, but the demand was too great and the situation got out of hand.

"I will openly acknowledge that I wanted to have more rigor in the classes, but given the circumstances, I wasn't able to," he said. "If I gave them each a 40-page paper, I would have had to grade them all. Was this an ideal way to do the curriculum? Of course not."

Konty said teachers don't receive extra pay for teaching the one-on-one courses, which often require more work than regular classes.

He said Auburn would be required to pay professors extra if more regular classes were added and caused them to exceed the number of instruction hours specified in their contracts. However, the same isn't true for independent study classes because they're considered "voluntary overload," Konty said.

A record 23,333 students were enrolled at Auburn for the 2005-06 school year, and trustees have a goal to gradually reach 25,000, school spokesman David Granger said.

Kowalski has been at Auburn since the 1975-76 school year and teaches sociology, criminology and criminal justice. While he praised Auburn for wanting to increase its enrollment, he said the school's failure to hire more faculty puts professors in a potentially dangerous situation.

"You've got to keep getting these faculty members on line," he said. "It's like if it was an assembly plant.

"If demand increases, but the number of people working doesn't, somebody's going to get a thumb cut off."

Konty said the department has scheduled a Wednesday faculty meeting to discuss the issue, possible solutions and its bylaws and guidelines regarding the courses.

"Basically it's a chance for everybody to get things off their chest," he said.

Interim Auburn president Ed Richardson has instructed Provost John Heilman and a faculty committee to create new polices ensuring the classes are taught with academic rigor, have proper administrative oversight and are offered on a limited basis.

The new polices are expected to be developed by Friday. The school has not taken any disciplinary action against Petee or accused him of violating any rules.

[UA-CT 1]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that a school with one of the highest paid football coaching staffs in the SEC, doesn't have enough revenue to hire "faculty" to teach. I've heard the arguement of the increasing student body, but to my knowledge students still pay to go to school. Why wasn't this problem addressed some time ago? I think, I'm starting to understand SACS a little better now.

[DKW 86 7,426]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that a school with one of the highest paid football coaching staffs in the SEC, doesn't have enough revenue to hire "faculty" to teach.  I've heard the arguement of the increasing student body, but to my knowledge students still pay to go to school.  Why wasn't this problem addressed some time ago? I think, I'm starting to understand SACS a little better now.

253354[/snapback]

This one dept now emcompasses, Criminology, Sociology, Anthropology, and One other discipline. They have merged 3 or 4 together and it caused problems. Richardson stopped any enrollment increases at We are capped at 23k.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that a school with one of the highest paid football coaching staffs in the SEC, doesn't have enough revenue to hire "faculty" to teach.  I've heard the arguement of the increasing student body, but to my knowledge students still pay to go to school.  Why wasn't this problem addressed some time ago? I think, I'm starting to understand SACS a little better now.

253354[/snapback]

Better not throw rocks in glass houses. The athletic budget and the regular budget are seperate at most schoold except Vandy.Also, at most schools, the head FB coach makes a lot more than the President. Do you think that's good if you really put academics as first priority? One reason for this is we fans put more pressure on the coach to win than we do on the Pres. to assure the highest academic standars.

[damabama 15]

this would be a good time for dr ed to go down to the gump and get the whole unequal funding thing with ua straightened out. im from georgia and have never understood how/why that works. can someone please bring me up on the curve about that?

[freebody 0]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that a school with one of the highest paid football coaching staffs in the SEC, doesn't have enough revenue to hire "faculty" to teach.  I've heard the arguement of the increasing student body, but to my knowledge students still pay to go to school.  Why wasn't this problem addressed some time ago? I think, I'm starting to understand SACS a little better now.

253354[/snapback]

No, you don't seem to understand it at all. That department just lost another member of its faculty when the former department head became ill and died. (If you are going to loiter here and attempt to pass judgement on our school, then pay attention and follow along). If you knew much about where your tuition check goes (or your daddy's check or Uncle Sam's, whichever the case may be), you would know that you don't just hire a professor overnight. It is a state job and must be advertised for a period of time before candidates are interviewed. Then, since tenure misapplied can be the academic equivalent of herpes (you're stuck with it forever, with more or less frequent flare-ups), there is a necessary period of review and approval. Bottom line, adding or replacing a faculty member takes at least a full academic year.

Because of proration due to shortfalls in Alabama's ass-backwards sales-tax dependent revenue system, the school recently has less money coming in from the state, which provides the school with more money than all of the student tuitions. As a cost-saving measure, in the last decade several departments in Liberal Arts were combined into one, combining sociology, criminology, etc. This has happened to other departments and programs in other colleges within the university as well. What happens then is a push to justify many current positions, as well as challenges to verify the need for any proposed new positions. When several previously-independent departments are merged, it can understandably get messy. I could see that combined department getting approval to start the process to hire one additional full-time "unit" in a given academic year, but then not be able to come to an agreement upon which field of expertise they should seek (they seem to play together so nicely in there).

So, enrollment grows, faculty numbers stagnate, there is no incentive for existing faculty to overload themselves, one guy tries to help students by giving them independent-study options, the relief valve attracts more flow and opens a bit wider, and pretty soon it is out of hand. Dude gets called on it for getting ridiculous, he stops it, other dude gets his feelings hurt because the first dude didn't get his hand slapped hard enough, but instead of the Sharks and Jets having it out in the alleyway with gayly-choreographed dance-fight scenes, genius decides to blab to the NYT. Meanwhile, a student from the smaller school across the state decides that it is just a matter of the private-donation-and-endorsment-funded football coaches taking money away from the teachers and the essentially self-imposed accreditation probation is completely justified and understood, while a butterfly lands on his head making him feel special and alive. Net result? Two thumbs down, and one is still headed west in November.

[UA-CT 1]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that a school with one of the highest paid football coaching staffs in the SEC, doesn't have enough revenue to hire "faculty" to teach.  I've heard the arguement of the increasing student body, but to my knowledge students still pay to go to school.  Why wasn't this problem addressed some time ago? I think, I'm starting to understand SACS a little better now.

253354[/snapback]

No, you don't seem to understand it at all. That department just lost another member of its faculty when the former department head became ill and died. (If you are going to loiter here and attempt to pass judgement on our school, then pay attention and follow along). If you knew much about where your tuition check goes (or your daddy's check or Uncle Sam's, whichever the case may be), you would know that you don't just hire a professor overnight. It is a state job and must be advertised for a period of time before candidates are interviewed. Then, since tenure misapplied can be the academic equivalent of herpes (you're stuck with it forever, with more or less frequent flare-ups), there is a necessary period of review and approval. Bottom line, adding or replacing a faculty member takes at least a full academic year.

Because of proration due to shortfalls in Alabama's ass-backwards sales-tax dependent revenue system, the school recently has less money coming in from the state, which provides the school with more money than all of the student tuitions. As a cost-saving measure, in the last decade several departments in Liberal Arts were combined into one, combining sociology, criminology, etc. This has happened to other departments and programs in other colleges within the university as well. What happens then is a push to justify many current positions, as well as challenges to verify the need for any proposed new positions. When several previously-independent departments are merged, it can understandably get messy. I could see that combined department getting approval to start the process to hire one additional full-time "unit" in a given academic year, but then not be able to come to an agreement upon which field of expertise they should seek (they seem to play together so nicely in there).

So, enrollment grows, faculty numbers stagnate, there is no incentive for existing faculty to overload themselves, one guy tries to help students by giving them independent-study options, the relief valve attracts more flow and opens a bit wider, and pretty soon it is out of hand. Dude gets called on it for getting ridiculous, he stops it, other dude gets his feelings hurt because the first dude didn't get his hand slapped hard enough, but instead of the Sharks and Jets having it out in the alleyway with gayly-choreographed dance-fight scenes, genius decides to blab to the NYT. Meanwhile, a student from the smaller school across the state decides that it is just a matter of the private-donation-and-endorsment-funded football coaches taking money away from the teachers and the essentially self-imposed accreditation probation is completely justified and understood, while a butterfly lands on his head making him feel special and alive. Net result? Two thumbs down, and one is still headed west in November.

253488[/snapback]

I don't care how you want to justify it, but the problem won't just go away.

http://www.myfoxal.com/myfox/pages/Sports/...TY&pageId=6.1.1

I think instead of obsessing about thumbs, you guys need to put a leash on this guy. If we have to be accountable for rouge boosters then you guys should damn well be accountable for someone on your own payroll. The fact that a professor steered athletes in academic trouble to easier classes shows to me that athletes WERE given special treatment and that makes this more than just a accrediation issue.

[auwallace 6]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that a school with one of the highest paid football coaching staffs in the SEC, doesn't have enough revenue to hire "faculty" to teach.  I've heard the arguement of the increasing student body, but to my knowledge students still pay to go to school.  Why wasn't this problem addressed some time ago? I think, I'm starting to understand SACS a little better now.

253354[/snapback]

No, you don't seem to understand it at all. That department just lost another member of its faculty when the former department head became ill and died. (If you are going to loiter here and attempt to pass judgement on our school, then pay attention and follow along). If you knew much about where your tuition check goes (or your daddy's check or Uncle Sam's, whichever the case may be), you would know that you don't just hire a professor overnight. It is a state job and must be advertised for a period of time before candidates are interviewed. Then, since tenure misapplied can be the academic equivalent of herpes (you're stuck with it forever, with more or less frequent flare-ups), there is a necessary period of review and approval. Bottom line, adding or replacing a faculty member takes at least a full academic year.

Because of proration due to shortfalls in Alabama's ass-backwards sales-tax dependent revenue system, the school recently has less money coming in from the state, which provides the school with more money than all of the student tuitions. As a cost-saving measure, in the last decade several departments in Liberal Arts were combined into one, combining sociology, criminology, etc. This has happened to other departments and programs in other colleges within the university as well. What happens then is a push to justify many current positions, as well as challenges to verify the need for any proposed new positions. When several previously-independent departments are merged, it can understandably get messy. I could see that combined department getting approval to start the process to hire one additional full-time "unit" in a given academic year, but then not be able to come to an agreement upon which field of expertise they should seek (they seem to play together so nicely in there).

So, enrollment grows, faculty numbers stagnate, there is no incentive for existing faculty to overload themselves, one guy tries to help students by giving them independent-study options, the relief valve attracts more flow and opens a bit wider, and pretty soon it is out of hand. Dude gets called on it for getting ridiculous, he stops it, other dude gets his feelings hurt because the first dude didn't get his hand slapped hard enough, but instead of the Sharks and Jets having it out in the alleyway with gayly-choreographed dance-fight scenes, genius decides to blab to the NYT. Meanwhile, a student from the smaller school across the state decides that it is just a matter of the private-donation-and-endorsment-funded football coaches taking money away from the teachers and the essentially self-imposed accreditation probation is completely justified and understood, while a butterfly lands on his head making him feel special and alive. Net result? Two thumbs down, and one is still headed west in November.

253488[/snapback]

I don't care how you want to justify it, but the problem won't just go away.

http://www.myfoxal.com/myfox/pages/Sports/...TY&pageId=6.1.1

I think instead of obsessing about thumbs, you guys need to put a leash on this guy. If we have to be accountable for rouge boosters then you guys should damn well be accountable for someone on your own payroll. The fact that a professor steered athletes in academic trouble to easier classes shows to me that athletes WERE given special treatment and that makes this more than just a accrediation issue.

253521[/snapback]

either this is an attempt at a flame or you're not very intelligent. Explain to me how he steered atheletes to his courses when they were an unbelievably underwhelming minority? I know those crimson colored glasses are thick but good lord try to be impartial.

[auwallace 6]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that a school with one of the highest paid football coaching staffs in the SEC, doesn't have enough revenue to hire "faculty" to teach.  I've heard the arguement of the increasing student body, but to my knowledge students still pay to go to school.  Why wasn't this problem addressed some time ago? I think, I'm starting to understand SACS a little better now.

253354[/snapback]

No, you don't seem to understand it at all. That department just lost another member of its faculty when the former department head became ill and died. (If you are going to loiter here and attempt to pass judgement on our school, then pay attention and follow along). If you knew much about where your tuition check goes (or your daddy's check or Uncle Sam's, whichever the case may be), you would know that you don't just hire a professor overnight. It is a state job and must be advertised for a period of time before candidates are interviewed. Then, since tenure misapplied can be the academic equivalent of herpes (you're stuck with it forever, with more or less frequent flare-ups), there is a necessary period of review and approval. Bottom line, adding or replacing a faculty member takes at least a full academic year.

Because of proration due to shortfalls in Alabama's ass-backwards sales-tax dependent revenue system, the school recently has less money coming in from the state, which provides the school with more money than all of the student tuitions. As a cost-saving measure, in the last decade several departments in Liberal Arts were combined into one, combining sociology, criminology, etc. This has happened to other departments and programs in other colleges within the university as well. What happens then is a push to justify many current positions, as well as challenges to verify the need for any proposed new positions. When several previously-independent departments are merged, it can understandably get messy. I could see that combined department getting approval to start the process to hire one additional full-time "unit" in a given academic year, but then not be able to come to an agreement upon which field of expertise they should seek (they seem to play together so nicely in there).

So, enrollment grows, faculty numbers stagnate, there is no incentive for existing faculty to overload themselves, one guy tries to help students by giving them independent-study options, the relief valve attracts more flow and opens a bit wider, and pretty soon it is out of hand. Dude gets called on it for getting ridiculous, he stops it, other dude gets his feelings hurt because the first dude didn't get his hand slapped hard enough, but instead of the Sharks and Jets having it out in the alleyway with gayly-choreographed dance-fight scenes, genius decides to blab to the NYT. Meanwhile, a student from the smaller school across the state decides that it is just a matter of the private-donation-and-endorsment-funded football coaches taking money away from the teachers and the essentially self-imposed accreditation probation is completely justified and understood, while a butterfly lands on his head making him feel special and alive. Net result? Two thumbs down, and one is still headed west in November.

253488[/snapback]

I don't care how you want to justify it, but the problem won't just go away.

http://www.myfoxal.com/myfox/pages/Sports/...TY&pageId=6.1.1

I think instead of obsessing about thumbs, you guys need to put a leash on this guy. If we have to be accountable for rouge boosters then you guys should damn well be accountable for someone on your own payroll. The fact that a professor steered athletes in academic trouble to easier classes shows to me that athletes WERE given special treatment and that makes this more than just a accrediation issue.

253521[/snapback]

either this is an attempt at a flame or you're not very intelligent. Explain to me how he steered atheletes to his courses when they were an unbelievably underwhelming minority? I know those crimson colored glasses are thick but good lord try to be impartial.

253523[/snapback]

Read the article.

253524[/snapback]

i read it, he gives one instance where an athelete took easy courses to up his gpa, thats it. How is that wrong? Any student at any university can take easy courses to increase their gpa. How can you believe any of the crap coming from gundlach when he already admitted earlier that this had nothing to do with athletics and that he only included them so people would pay attention.

[UA-CT 1]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that a school with one of the highest paid football coaching staffs in the SEC, doesn't have enough revenue to hire "faculty" to teach.  I've heard the arguement of the increasing student body, but to my knowledge students still pay to go to school.  Why wasn't this problem addressed some time ago? I think, I'm starting to understand SACS a little better now.

253354[/snapback]

No, you don't seem to understand it at all. That department just lost another member of its faculty when the former department head became ill and died. (If you are going to loiter here and attempt to pass judgement on our school, then pay attention and follow along). If you knew much about where your tuition check goes (or your daddy's check or Uncle Sam's, whichever the case may be), you would know that you don't just hire a professor overnight. It is a state job and must be advertised for a period of time before candidates are interviewed. Then, since tenure misapplied can be the academic equivalent of herpes (you're stuck with it forever, with more or less frequent flare-ups), there is a necessary period of review and approval. Bottom line, adding or replacing a faculty member takes at least a full academic year.

Because of proration due to shortfalls in Alabama's ass-backwards sales-tax dependent revenue system, the school recently has less money coming in from the state, which provides the school with more money than all of the student tuitions. As a cost-saving measure, in the last decade several departments in Liberal Arts were combined into one, combining sociology, criminology, etc. This has happened to other departments and programs in other colleges within the university as well. What happens then is a push to justify many current positions, as well as challenges to verify the need for any proposed new positions. When several previously-independent departments are merged, it can understandably get messy. I could see that combined department getting approval to start the process to hire one additional full-time "unit" in a given academic year, but then not be able to come to an agreement upon which field of expertise they should seek (they seem to play together so nicely in there).

So, enrollment grows, faculty numbers stagnate, there is no incentive for existing faculty to overload themselves, one guy tries to help students by giving them independent-study options, the relief valve attracts more flow and opens a bit wider, and pretty soon it is out of hand. Dude gets called on it for getting ridiculous, he stops it, other dude gets his feelings hurt because the first dude didn't get his hand slapped hard enough, but instead of the Sharks and Jets having it out in the alleyway with gayly-choreographed dance-fight scenes, genius decides to blab to the NYT. Meanwhile, a student from the smaller school across the state decides that it is just a matter of the private-donation-and-endorsment-funded football coaches taking money away from the teachers and the essentially self-imposed accreditation probation is completely justified and understood, while a butterfly lands on his head making him feel special and alive. Net result? Two thumbs down, and one is still headed west in November.

253488[/snapback]

I don't care how you want to justify it, but the problem won't just go away.

http://www.myfoxal.com/myfox/pages/Sports/...TY&pageId=6.1.1

I think instead of obsessing about thumbs, you guys need to put a leash on this guy. If we have to be accountable for rouge boosters then you guys should damn well be accountable for someone on your own payroll. The fact that a professor steered athletes in academic trouble to easier classes shows to me that athletes WERE given special treatment and that makes this more than just a accrediation issue.

253521[/snapback]

either this is an attempt at a flame or you're not very intelligent. Explain to me how he steered atheletes to his courses when they were an unbelievably underwhelming minority? I know those crimson colored glasses are thick but good lord try to be impartial.

253523[/snapback]

Read the article.

253524[/snapback]

i read it, he gives one instance where an athelete took easy courses to up his gpa, thats it. How is that wrong? Any student at any university can take easy courses to increase their gpa. How can you believe any of the crap coming from gundlach when he already admitted earlier that this had nothing to do with athletics and that he only included them so people would pay attention.

253526[/snapback]

Are we reading the same article? Where does it say only one? Is there a different article?

Gundlach now says his research shows at least a dozen academically at-risk athletes in Petee's sociology and criminology classes took other classes that improved their grades.

These courses included weight training, organic gardening, vegetable production, performance techniques for the camera, keyboarding, adult education and sports in America.

Gundlach says athletes in these courses received higher grades in those courses than others.

He says their transcripts - quote -- "look like they're trying to keep them qualified ... There's no coherent, intellectual development theme in this."

Is there another article?

[auwallace 6]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that a school with one of the highest paid football coaching staffs in the SEC, doesn't have enough revenue to hire "faculty" to teach.  I've heard the arguement of the increasing student body, but to my knowledge students still pay to go to school.  Why wasn't this problem addressed some time ago? I think, I'm starting to understand SACS a little better now.

253354[/snapback]

No, you don't seem to understand it at all. That department just lost another member of its faculty when the former department head became ill and died. (If you are going to loiter here and attempt to pass judgement on our school, then pay attention and follow along). If you knew much about where your tuition check goes (or your daddy's check or Uncle Sam's, whichever the case may be), you would know that you don't just hire a professor overnight. It is a state job and must be advertised for a period of time before candidates are interviewed. Then, since tenure misapplied can be the academic equivalent of herpes (you're stuck with it forever, with more or less frequent flare-ups), there is a necessary period of review and approval. Bottom line, adding or replacing a faculty member takes at least a full academic year.

Because of proration due to shortfalls in Alabama's ass-backwards sales-tax dependent revenue system, the school recently has less money coming in from the state, which provides the school with more money than all of the student tuitions. As a cost-saving measure, in the last decade several departments in Liberal Arts were combined into one, combining sociology, criminology, etc. This has happened to other departments and programs in other colleges within the university as well. What happens then is a push to justify many current positions, as well as challenges to verify the need for any proposed new positions. When several previously-independent departments are merged, it can understandably get messy. I could see that combined department getting approval to start the process to hire one additional full-time "unit" in a given academic year, but then not be able to come to an agreement upon which field of expertise they should seek (they seem to play together so nicely in there).

So, enrollment grows, faculty numbers stagnate, there is no incentive for existing faculty to overload themselves, one guy tries to help students by giving them independent-study options, the relief valve attracts more flow and opens a bit wider, and pretty soon it is out of hand. Dude gets called on it for getting ridiculous, he stops it, other dude gets his feelings hurt because the first dude didn't get his hand slapped hard enough, but instead of the Sharks and Jets having it out in the alleyway with gayly-choreographed dance-fight scenes, genius decides to blab to the NYT. Meanwhile, a student from the smaller school across the state decides that it is just a matter of the private-donation-and-endorsment-funded football coaches taking money away from the teachers and the essentially self-imposed accreditation probation is completely justified and understood, while a butterfly lands on his head making him feel special and alive. Net result? Two thumbs down, and one is still headed west in November.

253488[/snapback]

I don't care how you want to justify it, but the problem won't just go away.

http://www.myfoxal.com/myfox/pages/Sports/...TY&pageId=6.1.1

I think instead of obsessing about thumbs, you guys need to put a leash on this guy. If we have to be accountable for rouge boosters then you guys should damn well be accountable for someone on your own payroll. The fact that a professor steered athletes in academic trouble to easier classes shows to me that athletes WERE given special treatment and that makes this more than just a accrediation issue.

253521[/snapback]

either this is an attempt at a flame or you're not very intelligent. Explain to me how he steered atheletes to his courses when they were an unbelievably underwhelming minority? I know those crimson colored glasses are thick but good lord try to be impartial.

253523[/snapback]

Read the article.

253524[/snapback]

i read it, he gives one instance where an athelete took easy courses to up his gpa, thats it. How is that wrong? Any student at any university can take easy courses to increase their gpa. How can you believe any of the crap coming from gundlach when he already admitted earlier that this had nothing to do with athletics and that he only included them so people would pay attention.

253526[/snapback]

Are we reading the same article? Where does it say only one? Is there a different article?

Gundlach now says his research shows at least a dozen academically at-risk athletes in Petee's sociology and criminology classes took other classes that improved their grades.

These courses included weight training, organic gardening, vegetable production, performance techniques for the camera, keyboarding, adult education and sports in America.

Gundlach says athletes in these courses received higher grades in those courses than others.

He says their transcripts - quote -- "look like they're trying to keep them qualified ... There's no coherent, intellectual development theme in this."

Is there another article?

253534[/snapback]

yes, there is another one that didn't mention those classes and it talked about one instance where a player who left the team later improved his gpa. He claims that this was the worst case. As for the list of classes, they are all electives and every student at auburn can take them. Need we bring up some of the crip classes at ua? History of Rap music?, I'm sure you guys have a photography class, as well as keyboarding and weight training. And i bet there isn't an athelete within miles of those classes .This proves nothing. Tell me how that is a violation of any rules?

The dead horse is tired of being beaten.

[cleburnecountytigerfan 0]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that a school with one of the highest paid football coaching staffs in the SEC, doesn't have enough revenue to hire "faculty" to teach.  I've heard the arguement of the increasing student body, but to my knowledge students still pay to go to school.  Why wasn't this problem addressed some time ago? I think, I'm starting to understand SACS a little better now.

253354[/snapback]

No, you don't seem to understand it at all. That department just lost another member of its faculty when the former department head became ill and died. (If you are going to loiter here and attempt to pass judgement on our school, then pay attention and follow along). If you knew much about where your tuition check goes (or your daddy's check or Uncle Sam's, whichever the case may be), you would know that you don't just hire a professor overnight. It is a state job and must be advertised for a period of time before candidates are interviewed. Then, since tenure misapplied can be the academic equivalent of herpes (you're stuck with it forever, with more or less frequent flare-ups), there is a necessary period of review and approval. Bottom line, adding or replacing a faculty member takes at least a full academic year.

Because of proration due to shortfalls in Alabama's ass-backwards sales-tax dependent revenue system, the school recently has less money coming in from the state, which provides the school with more money than all of the student tuitions. As a cost-saving measure, in the last decade several departments in Liberal Arts were combined into one, combining sociology, criminology, etc. This has happened to other departments and programs in other colleges within the university as well. What happens then is a push to justify many current positions, as well as challenges to verify the need for any proposed new positions. When several previously-independent departments are merged, it can understandably get messy. I could see that combined department getting approval to start the process to hire one additional full-time "unit" in a given academic year, but then not be able to come to an agreement upon which field of expertise they should seek (they seem to play together so nicely in there).

So, enrollment grows, faculty numbers stagnate, there is no incentive for existing faculty to overload themselves, one guy tries to help students by giving them independent-study options, the relief valve attracts more flow and opens a bit wider, and pretty soon it is out of hand. Dude gets called on it for getting ridiculous, he stops it, other dude gets his feelings hurt because the first dude didn't get his hand slapped hard enough, but instead of the Sharks and Jets having it out in the alleyway with gayly-choreographed dance-fight scenes, genius decides to blab to the NYT. Meanwhile, a student from the smaller school across the state decides that it is just a matter of the private-donation-and-endorsment-funded football coaches taking money away from the teachers and the essentially self-imposed accreditation probation is completely justified and understood, while a butterfly lands on his head making him feel special and alive. Net result? Two thumbs down, and one is still headed west in November.

253488[/snapback]

I don't care how you want to justify it, but the problem won't just go away.

http://www.myfoxal.com/myfox/pages/Sports/...TY&pageId=6.1.1

I think instead of obsessing about thumbs, you guys need to put a leash on this guy. If we have to be accountable for rouge boosters then you guys should damn well be accountable for someone on your own payroll. The fact that a professor steered athletes in academic trouble to easier classes shows to me that athletes WERE given special treatment and that makes this more than just a accrediation issue.

253521[/snapback]

either this is an attempt at a flame or you're not very intelligent. Explain to me how he steered atheletes to his courses when they were an unbelievably underwhelming minority? I know those crimson colored glasses are thick but good lord try to be impartial.

253523[/snapback]

Read the article.

253524[/snapback]

i read it, he gives one instance where an athelete took easy courses to up his gpa, thats it. How is that wrong? Any student at any university can take easy courses to increase their gpa. How can you believe any of the crap coming from gundlach when he already admitted earlier that this had nothing to do with athletics and that he only included them so people would pay attention.

253526[/snapback]

Are we reading the same article? Where does it say only one? Is there a different article?

Gundlach now says his research shows at least a dozen academically at-risk athletes in Petee's sociology and criminology classes took other classes that improved their grades.

These courses included weight training, organic gardening, vegetable production, performance techniques for the camera, keyboarding, adult education and sports in America.

Gundlach says athletes in these courses received higher grades in those courses than others.

He says their transcripts - quote -- "look like they're trying to keep them qualified ... There's no coherent, intellectual development theme in this."

Is there another article?

253534[/snapback]

You dont think athletes at $PUAT take those kind of classes? I didnt hear the interview myself, but somebody told me that JOX had Roman Harper and Charlie Peprah on one of their shows. From what I understand, Charlie Peprah and Roman Harper said athletes at $PUAT take classes like racquetball. I guess racquetball is a real demanding class for athletes to take.

[UA-CT 1]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that a school with one of the highest paid football coaching staffs in the SEC, doesn't have enough revenue to hire "faculty" to teach.  I've heard the arguement of the increasing student body, but to my knowledge students still pay to go to school.  Why wasn't this problem addressed some time ago? I think, I'm starting to understand SACS a little better now.

253354[/snapback]

No, you don't seem to understand it at all. That department just lost another member of its faculty when the former department head became ill and died. (If you are going to loiter here and attempt to pass judgement on our school, then pay attention and follow along). If you knew much about where your tuition check goes (or your daddy's check or Uncle Sam's, whichever the case may be), you would know that you don't just hire a professor overnight. It is a state job and must be advertised for a period of time before candidates are interviewed. Then, since tenure misapplied can be the academic equivalent of herpes (you're stuck with it forever, with more or less frequent flare-ups), there is a necessary period of review and approval. Bottom line, adding or replacing a faculty member takes at least a full academic year.

Because of proration due to shortfalls in Alabama's ass-backwards sales-tax dependent revenue system, the school recently has less money coming in from the state, which provides the school with more money than all of the student tuitions. As a cost-saving measure, in the last decade several departments in Liberal Arts were combined into one, combining sociology, criminology, etc. This has happened to other departments and programs in other colleges within the university as well. What happens then is a push to justify many current positions, as well as challenges to verify the need for any proposed new positions. When several previously-independent departments are merged, it can understandably get messy. I could see that combined department getting approval to start the process to hire one additional full-time "unit" in a given academic year, but then not be able to come to an agreement upon which field of expertise they should seek (they seem to play together so nicely in there).

So, enrollment grows, faculty numbers stagnate, there is no incentive for existing faculty to overload themselves, one guy tries to help students by giving them independent-study options, the relief valve attracts more flow and opens a bit wider, and pretty soon it is out of hand. Dude gets called on it for getting ridiculous, he stops it, other dude gets his feelings hurt because the first dude didn't get his hand slapped hard enough, but instead of the Sharks and Jets having it out in the alleyway with gayly-choreographed dance-fight scenes, genius decides to blab to the NYT. Meanwhile, a student from the smaller school across the state decides that it is just a matter of the private-donation-and-endorsment-funded football coaches taking money away from the teachers and the essentially self-imposed accreditation probation is completely justified and understood, while a butterfly lands on his head making him feel special and alive. Net result? Two thumbs down, and one is still headed west in November.

253488[/snapback]

I don't care how you want to justify it, but the problem won't just go away.

http://www.myfoxal.com/myfox/pages/Sports/...TY&pageId=6.1.1

I think instead of obsessing about thumbs, you guys need to put a leash on this guy. If we have to be accountable for rouge boosters then you guys should damn well be accountable for someone on your own payroll. The fact that a professor steered athletes in academic trouble to easier classes shows to me that athletes WERE given special treatment and that makes this more than just a accrediation issue.

253521[/snapback]

either this is an attempt at a flame or you're not very intelligent. Explain to me how he steered atheletes to his courses when they were an unbelievably underwhelming minority? I know those crimson colored glasses are thick but good lord try to be impartial.

253523[/snapback]

Read the article.

253524[/snapback]

i read it, he gives one instance where an athelete took easy courses to up his gpa, thats it. How is that wrong? Any student at any university can take easy courses to increase their gpa. How can you believe any of the crap coming from gundlach when he already admitted earlier that this had nothing to do with athletics and that he only included them so people would pay attention.

253526[/snapback]

Are we reading the same article? Where does it say only one? Is there a different article?

Gundlach now says his research shows at least a dozen academically at-risk athletes in Petee's sociology and criminology classes took other classes that improved their grades.

These courses included weight training, organic gardening, vegetable production, performance techniques for the camera, keyboarding, adult education and sports in America.

Gundlach says athletes in these courses received higher grades in those courses than others.

He says their transcripts - quote -- "look like they're trying to keep them qualified ... There's no coherent, intellectual development theme in this."

Is there another article?

253534[/snapback]

yes, there is another one that didn't mention those classes and it talked about one instance where a player who left the team later improved his gpa. He claims that this was the worst case. As for the list of classes, they are all electives and every student at auburn can take them. Need we bring up some of the crip classes at ua? History of Rap music?, I'm sure you guys have a photography class, as well as keyboarding and weight training. And i bet there isn't an athelete within miles of those classes .This proves nothing. Tell me how that is a violation of any rules?

The dead horse is tired of being beaten.

253542[/snapback]

Is there a link? BTW, You have to admit the vegetable production class was pretty funny.

[auwallace 6]

it was the story in the mobile press register this morning, vegetable production is taught be the Rev. Dr. James Brown (not kidding), and it is pretty funny.

[Tennessee Tiger 16]

Maybe I'm way off base here, but how did he have access to transcripts? I can't even get access to my daughters' transcripts without their written permission and I pay their tuition. Does he have access because he is a professor, or was something unethical done here? Just a question.

[quietfan 233]

Maybe I'm way off base here, but how did he have access to transcripts?  I can't even get access to my daughters' transcripts without their written permission and I pay their tuition.  Does he have access because he is a professor, or was something unethical done here?  Just a question.

253559[/snapback]

I can't speak for Auburn's specific policies or records system, but I don't think it's unusual for professors to have access to student records through the campus computer network. As I understand it, giving them this access does not violate federal student confidentiality laws because they are academic employees of the school, although it would be illegal for the professor to publicly release such information. I've notice Gundlach is careful not to reveal specific student names in all his revelations, probably because of this. Non-academic employees would not normally have such access.

It's certainly appropriate for a professor to need such access for his/her academic advisees and for the students in his/her classes to help identify those student's needs/backgrounds. Generally, a professor may have a private password to access the system at some level as part of his/her normal academic duties, although such access would not permit changing of grades or anything like that (Read-only, in other words). Again, though, I can't speak to Auburn's particular system.

Of course, I can't imagine a professor having the time to study the records of 200-300 extra students any more than I can imagine one having the time to teach that many independent studies classes.

[freebody 0]

Maybe I'm way off base here, but how did he have access to transcripts?  I can't even get access to my daughters' transcripts without their written permission and I pay their tuition.  Does he have access because he is a professor, or was something unethical done here?  Just a question.

253559[/snapback]

I can't speak for Auburn's specific policies or records system, but I don't think it's unusual for professors to have access to student records through the campus computer network. As I understand it, giving them this access does not violate federal student confidentiality laws because they are academic employees of the school, although it would be illegal for the professor to publicly release such information. I've notice Gundlach is careful not to reveal specific student names in all his revelations, probably because of this. Non-academic employees would not normally have such access.

It's certainly appropriate for a professor to need such access for his/her academic advisees and for the students in his/her classes to help identify those student's needs/backgrounds. Generally, a professor may have a private password to access the system at some level as part of his/her normal academic duties, although such access would not permit changing of grades or anything like that (Read-only, in other words). Again, though, I can't speak to Auburn's particular system.

Of course, I can't imagine a professor having the time to study the records of 200-300 extra students any more than I can imagine one having the time to teach that many independent studies classes.

253560[/snapback]

If he has this kind of extra time, then he should get off his ass and teach a class instead of complaining when someone else offers a directed reading within his department's curricula to make up for a shortage of seats, which was the fundamental reason Peete started doing this. (I know, I know - he has tenure and is near retirement so where is his incentive to teach an overload).

And exactly what is wrong with football players taking electives? These days, they are in school year-round and do not take summers off. If they only took the courses required for their degree, then they would either graduate early, or risk running into a less than full load in their third or fourth year due to taking courses out-of-sequence. So, they take electives - big deal. If you take an elective course in college, obviously you should get a good grade in it - because either you are taking it out of personal interest, or it is some less-demanding course chosen to fill out your schedule for that term. Either way, it is something you cognizantly choose for your benefit, so you damn well better get an A or B. Students on academic or daddy scholarships do that all the time, as did guys avoiding Vietnam a generation ago. A major difference here is that with the APR, student-athletes are not afforded the four-major-change fourth-year-sophomore "finding yourself" adjustment to college that many people do. So, if some of these guys want to take an independent-study course or two or three, over the course of their academic careers, that gives them schedule flexibility and maybe a sure A or B for a nominal quantity of work (which is defined unilaterally for regular students and athletes alike), I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. They still have to maintain progress towards a degree. Now, if someone had a transcript full of individual study courses, that might be cause for concern regarding the rigor of their study for their degree - but per even the NYT, the student-athletes averaged less than two IS courses apiece. Even the rode-hard scholars in West Vance have admitted to independent study courses and convenient electives.

So, smile smugly if it makes you feel better in your naivety - only 111 days 'til the thumb, and you know that's gonna hurt!

[UA-CT 1]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that a school with one of the highest paid football coaching staffs in the SEC, doesn't have enough revenue to hire "faculty" to teach.  I've heard the arguement of the increasing student body, but to my knowledge students still pay to go to school.  Why wasn't this problem addressed some time ago? I think, I'm starting to understand SACS a little better now.

253354[/snapback]

No, you don't seem to understand it at all. That department just lost another member of its faculty when the former department head became ill and died. (If you are going to loiter here and attempt to pass judgement on our school, then pay attention and follow along). If you knew much about where your tuition check goes (or your daddy's check or Uncle Sam's, whichever the case may be), you would know that you don't just hire a professor overnight. It is a state job and must be advertised for a period of time before candidates are interviewed. Then, since tenure misapplied can be the academic equivalent of herpes (you're stuck with it forever, with more or less frequent flare-ups), there is a necessary period of review and approval. Bottom line, adding or replacing a faculty member takes at least a full academic year.

Because of proration due to shortfalls in Alabama's ass-backwards sales-tax dependent revenue system, the school recently has less money coming in from the state, which provides the school with more money than all of the student tuitions. As a cost-saving measure, in the last decade several departments in Liberal Arts were combined into one, combining sociology, criminology, etc. This has happened to other departments and programs in other colleges within the university as well. What happens then is a push to justify many current positions, as well as challenges to verify the need for any proposed new positions. When several previously-independent departments are merged, it can understandably get messy. I could see that combined department getting approval to start the process to hire one additional full-time "unit" in a given academic year, but then not be able to come to an agreement upon which field of expertise they should seek (they seem to play together so nicely in there).

So, enrollment grows, faculty numbers stagnate, there is no incentive for existing faculty to overload themselves, one guy tries to help students by giving them independent-study options, the relief valve attracts more flow and opens a bit wider, and pretty soon it is out of hand. Dude gets called on it for getting ridiculous, he stops it, other dude gets his feelings hurt because the first dude didn't get his hand slapped hard enough, but instead of the Sharks and Jets having it out in the alleyway with gayly-choreographed dance-fight scenes, genius decides to blab to the NYT. Meanwhile, a student from the smaller school across the state decides that it is just a matter of the private-donation-and-endorsment-funded football coaches taking money away from the teachers and the essentially self-imposed accreditation probation is completely justified and understood, while a butterfly lands on his head making him feel special and alive. Net result? Two thumbs down, and one is still headed west in November.

253488[/snapback]

I don't care how you want to justify it, but the problem won't just go away.

http://www.myfoxal.com/myfox/pages/Sports/...TY&pageId=6.1.1

I think instead of obsessing about thumbs, you guys need to put a leash on this guy. If we have to be accountable for rouge boosters then you guys should damn well be accountable for someone on your own payroll. The fact that a professor steered athletes in academic trouble to easier classes shows to me that athletes WERE given special treatment and that makes this more than just a accrediation issue.

253521[/snapback]

either this is an attempt at a flame or you're not very intelligent. Explain to me how he steered atheletes to his courses when they were an unbelievably underwhelming minority? I know those crimson colored glasses are thick but good lord try to be impartial.

253523[/snapback]

Read the article.

253524[/snapback]

i read it, he gives one instance where an athelete took easy courses to up his gpa, thats it. How is that wrong? Any student at any university can take easy courses to increase their gpa. How can you believe any of the crap coming from gundlach when he already admitted earlier that this had nothing to do with athletics and that he only included them so people would pay attention.

253526[/snapback]

Are we reading the same article? Where does it say only one? Is there a different article?

Gundlach now says his research shows at least a dozen academically at-risk athletes in Petee's sociology and criminology classes took other classes that improved their grades.

These courses included weight training, organic gardening, vegetable production, performance techniques for the camera, keyboarding, adult education and sports in America.

Gundlach says athletes in these courses received higher grades in those courses than others.

He says their transcripts - quote -- "look like they're trying to keep them qualified ... There's no coherent, intellectual development theme in this."

Is there another article?

253534[/snapback]

yes, there is another one that didn't mention those classes and it talked about one instance where a player who left the team later improved his gpa. He claims that this was the worst case. As for the list of classes, they are all electives and every student at auburn can take them. Need we bring up some of the crip classes at ua? History of Rap music?, I'm sure you guys have a photography class, as well as keyboarding and weight training. And i bet there isn't an athelete within miles of those classes .This proves nothing. Tell me how that is a violation of any rules?

The dead horse is tired of being beaten.

253542[/snapback]

My sincerest apologies go out to auwallace. I found the article. The article I was sent and the one from the mobile register are a little misleading.

http://www.al.com/auburn/mobileregister/in...1240.xml&coll=3

Thanks for pointing out that the fox sports article left out practically the whole story.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

UA-CT....you aren't making a very good impression coming on your biggest rival's board, meddling in matters that are being dealt with in the proper way, and doing so without a lot of knowledge about what you are talking about. I suggest you cool it a bit or the flames are gonna get hot.

[DKW 86 7,426]

From the above link

Gundlach: Petee kept athletes eligible

So says the Auburn professor, who said he plans to introduce a "no-confidence" motion at Wednesday's sociology department faculty meeting in an attempt to oust Petee

So lets look at this with our eyes wide open for a second...

1) Gundlach's own investigation isnt 12% finished.

2) The AU Investigation is 2-3 weeks away from finishing.

3) and Gundlach is going to call for his removal?

4) Gundlach, with no access to drug tests, testimony, no expertise in drugs etc is now ready to accuse the football team of drug use...

Anyone think this is being done for anythng more than another article to get Gundlach's name in the paper?

[MDM4AU 332]

You dont think athletes at $PUAT take those kind of classes? I didnt hear the interview myself, but somebody told me that JOX had Roman Harper and Charlie Peprah on one of their shows. From what I understand, Charlie Peprah and Roman Harper said athletes at $PUAT take classes like racquetball. I guess racquetball is a real demanding class for athletes to take.

253544[/snapback]

July 19th around 2:00pm on Dunnaway and Brown on WJOX. I was stuck on the interstate just outside Tuscaloser and heard it. They were on the program before D&B with Lance Taylor. They both said everyone knew there are easier classes to take yo help the GPA. Raquetball was one that one of these guys and Brodie took together claiming they showed up, played ball for an hour or so and got an A. They named a couple of other classes that were the same way.

I don't have a link but if someone doesn't believe me they can email Lance Taylor, Jim Dunnaway or Ryan Brown at WJOX 690.

[freebody 0]

From the above link

Gundlach: Petee kept athletes eligible

So says the Auburn professor, who said he plans to introduce a "no-confidence" motion at Wednesday's sociology department faculty meeting in an attempt to oust Petee

So lets look at this with our eyes wide open for a second...

1) Gundlach's own investigation isnt 12% finished.

2) The AU Investigation is 2-3 weeks away from finishing.

3) and Gundlach is going to call for his removal?

4) Gundlach, with no access to drug tests, testimony, no expertise in drugs etc is now ready to accuse the football team of drug use...

Anyone think this is being done for anythng more than another article to get Gundlach's name in the paper?

253612[/snapback]

Oh, so he shows his true colors now after all, and is trying to oust the younger guy who got the chair. Maybe he truly never wanted the responsibility of being the department chair because he knows he could never hack it, and is approaching the end of his career and perhaps realizes what a waste he has been, so he tries to create and fan some blaze of glory. As a college professor, he has had decades to create a legacy through the young lives he could have affected, but now near the end realizes the opportunities lost. Crazy theory? Convenient conspiracy? Well, I say it's at least as likely as what he's trying to claim.

How is this guy not being reprimanded by the University for basically trying this through the media? This is why the trustees have called-out some of the faculty for "not earning their pay" - the other faculty should be mad at this guy on his quixotic crusade for becoming the poster boy of what is wrong with tenure. Again, if you have altruistic motives and want to improve the quality of the curriculum, GET OFF YOUR ASS AND PICK UP ANOTHER CLASS.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

The fact that a professor steered athletes in academic trouble to easier classes shows to me that athletes WERE given special treatment and that makes this more than just a accrediation issue.

Wrong, it was advisors that steered them to easier classes. Guess what, advisors steer regular students to easy classes to pull their GPA up if they get into academic trouble/probation with the university also. You don't even have to be in academic trouble to get steered toward easier classes.

I guess I recieved special treatment from my advisor when she looked at my coursework and suggested that I take organic gardening (I have a small number of free electives) as a elective and soccer(I'm required to take two PE classes as a Exercise Science major as part of my core) to balance out a semester in which I was also taking Anatomy and Physiology I and Chem I. Well bring in SACS and investigate me, cause both those classes count on my gpa and toward my graduation and I scored higher in those than in Chem and AnP.

These courses included weight training, organic gardening, vegetable production, performance techniques for the camera, keyboarding, adult education and sports in America.

Gundlach says athletes in these courses received higher grades in those courses than others.

He says their transcripts - quote -- "look like they're trying to keep them qualified ... There's no coherent, intellectual development theme in this."

Course what Gundlach doesn't tell you, and no journalist has printed, is that the sociology department allows 32-34 hours of elective courses..... which means anything that the student wants to take. That means that a student... athlete or not... can take 16 2 hour PE classes if they want to as progress toward a degree in sociology. Guess what, all the classes he listed count toward a degree in sociology due to the number of free electives allowed in that major, if he wants a theme in all classes then reduce free electives. Course SACS has seen this curriculim and approved it.

http://web6.duc.auburn.edu/academic/libera...an_of_study.pdf

Looks to me that instead of going after athletes and other professors that he should be seeing about changing the curriculim requirements, knock out the total of free electives if he doesn't want random courses coming up.

Is there a link?

Instead of blindly following the newspapers that are looking for a story and asking for a link to everything, why don't you go look at some of Alabama football players major, go the UA course catalog and see the requirements and how many are in majors that allow raquetball etc. as core coursework and how many free electives they get. And don't try and tell my that they use their free electives to take Organic Chemistry.

Personally all I have gotten from you UA-CT is the perception of someone that didn't attend college and doesn't know how it works and thinks by linking newspaper articles can tell those of us that did/are how it works.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

"When you see that kind of problem emerging with grades, the most common problem it reflects is drugs," Gundlach said. "They're just throwing this person into easy classes, rather than seeing it as an alarm, rather than seeing whether there's something amiss with this person that needs to be checked out. That's neglecting the student.

Interesting Gundlach, so a guy does well in classes that are individual and one on one and struggles in regular classes..... and your first assessment is to say that it reflects drugs?

Perhaps instead of thinking drugs, your first question as a educator should be why does a student perform better with one on one instruction. Could it be possible that the student has a learning disability and needs that one on one instruction. As a student thats in the program for students with disabilities I know for a fact that there are several that struggle severly with coursework, then when the problem is identified and the program gives them accomodations and aids them in how to overcome the disability these students are just as capable as all the others. Sometimes its as simple as taking a test in a room by yourself with no noise.

Perhaps rather than tossing the blame on the advisor, you should have taken the time to talk with the student and find out what the problem was. Your no better than anyone cause you neglected the student also Gundlach.

[AUloggerhead 2,238]

From the above link

Gundlach: Petee kept athletes eligible

... Anyone think this is being done for anythng more than another article to get Gundlach's name in the paper?

253612[/snapback]

Well, now that you asked for opinions, here goes: I think Gundlach is one of those sad, over-the-hill hippies who just can't let go of the past. You know the type: obviously balding, but still trying hard to compensate by utilizing the ponytail combined with the "comb-over method" in an attempt to look hip. I thnk he's bitter he didn't get the job Petee did and is using this issue as a Parthing Shot right before he retires. His refusal to serve on the investigation committe into the academic issue he made public is bogus. If he had any thought of changing the department's policy for the better (which was what the original NYT article implied,) he should have jumped at the opportunity. Instead, he's on the outside free to take public potshots as he sees fit. Obviously, he's motivated by something else. Name in the paper? I don't think so. I think he hates football and everything associated with it -- hates the fact that athletes are using his chosen field of study to graduate. LMAO. Oh, the irony.

Photo from official AU website: Link