GalensGhost 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 *yawn* Now you're making up depth charts. Go look at the posted ones. There are no freshmen or sophomores listed as starters on defense. Make all the excuses and justifications you want. "Alabama's young" rings hollow even with some of the most ardent Bama backers. Dude, I know the freaking depth charts. To say we arent a young team is homerism at is finest. We might play a junior somewhere, but that doesnt mean hes a veteran. Nor does it mean hes a QUALITY junior. So dont make it out to be a situation where we are UNDERPERFORMING because we have all this veteran talent. You make it sound like we should win the SEC with who we have on board. Prince Hall is a FRESHMAN starting Middle linebacker. Incase you didnt notice, he was the SEC freshman of the week. He beat out Matt Collins a Jr WALKON. Yeah, thats the same as having someone like Blackmon will be when he's a junior right? Lionel Mitchell is a SOPH DB. We run a 3-3-5 not a 4-3. But you're telling me what I know because you know more about our depth chart than I do right? Im sure you keep up with all of that when it comes to bama football. Keith Saunders is a Jr who has seen little to no action over his career. Marcus Carter is, and has been, our starter at SS. He's listed as a Jr, and i made a mistake saying he's a soph...but he's never been a starter at this spot, and has only 4 tackles in his 2 year career. Terrence Jones is listed on the depth chart but plays sparingly due to ongoing injury. See you look at stuff like "he's a Jr" and thats all you need for your argument. You dont want to consider the GLARINGLY obvious details about the situation, because it weakens your position. Similarly, you say we didnt have an excuse for being bad in 03 and 04...but you cant tell me how good AU would be right now if i took the 25 BEST players off of your roster. How many games would AU win then? Would you have beaten Florida saturday with Blake at QB and Tre at RB? Here's a breakdown of our depth/talent. Even though, to you, a 1 star guy...if he's a Jr...is better than a 5 star guy whos a soph. DE - Wallace Gillbery - No stars, only offer was from Alabama a month before signing day DE - Keith Saunders - 2 stars DT - Dominic Lee - 4 stars, solid recruit LB - Demarcus Waldrop - 2 stars LB - Juwan Simpson - 3/4 stars not sure...good pickup LB - Prince Hall - 3 stars, good pickup. not ready to start at MLB as redshirt frosh CB - Lionel Mitchell - 4 Stars, soph two tackles his fresh year. ended short due to injury CB - Simeon Castille - 3 stars solid guy CB - Ramzee Robinson - 3 stars but a good DB S - Jeff Dukes - Juco transfer 3 stars good safety S - Marcus Carter - Decent player, but still first year starter 3 stars i think You dont replace 6 starters on a defense, 6 of whom are all playing on nfl teams....with 6 guys who have NEVER EVER EVER started...and not expect some dropoff. The only person who would...would be you...because it fits your shortsighted argument. But hey, a couple of them are Jrs....so i guess that counts for something. Lets look at the offense shall we? WR - DJ Hall - 3 stars, good WR WR - Keith Brown - 3 stars good WR WR - Will Oakley - 3 stars, good Wr LT - 5 stars. Great Tackle, true frosh LG - 4 stars as a DEFENSIVE TACKLE. first year at OL C - 4 stars but only a soph LG - 4 stars but only a soph LT - 2 stars offered by us and UAB i think QB - 3 stars first year starter RB - 4 stars solid player Again...what do you expect from 6 guys who see their first career starts on D and 7 on O to do their first year together? Im not making excuses either. I said we'd win 8/9 this year and i think we will. But to make it sound like we should be worldbeaters with this team is doing everyone a disservice. You just want a chance to blame shula for something else. He called a HELL of a game saturday...but you probably didnt see it. Just looked at the final score. No, I listened to Eli and Snake. I didn't watch the game. So I don't know what kind of game he called. Hell, I didn't even know the score most of the time. Here's a link to Alabama's depth chart: Depth Chart Your protestations and declarations aside, there's not a freshman or sophomore listed at a starting position on the defense. Got to assume that al.com has it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaGrad03 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Now, lets look at YOUR offense: QB - Brandon Cox - 4 stars one of the top high school QBs in the country FB - Carl Stewart 3 stars solid prospect RB - Kenny Irons 4 star guy and a MONSTER talent WR - Courtney Taylor 3 star guy and 3 year starter WR - Prechae Rodriguez - 4 star guy solid talent TE - Tommy Trott - 4 star guy probably top 3 TEs in the nation LT - King Dunlap 3 star returner who will probably play on sundays LG - Ben Grubbs 3 star vet who has plenty of pt C - Bosely probably the one weak point because your starter went down RG - Tim Duckworth 4 star big time recruit and a SR RT - Johnathan Palmer 3 star and a SR You have Jr (2nd year starter), Soph, Sr, Sr, Sr, Soph, Jr, Sr, Soph, Sr, Sr I probably missed a guy here or there on the Oline. Grubbs might be the one thats hurt. Other than that...i think its not even close to the same as our offense in terms of depth and experience. Now explain to me why it is that YOUR offense is having such a hard time getting into the end zone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaGrad03 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Got to assume that al.com has it right. Its wrong. Its the depth chart that UA released before the season started. We dont even run a 4-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaGrad03 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 And why do you dismiss ALL that I said with that one line about the depth chart? You KNOW having "Jr" next to your name isnt the end all to the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tigrinum Major Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Offensive line play has been not up to the usual Nall standards and Cox holds the ball too long because the wide receivers are unable to separate themselves from the DBs. That, in a nutshell, is why. Now, if you want to explore it deeper, I don't have an answer. The OL guys have talent, Nall is a good coach and Cox should make better decisions. Our WRs have not performed as well as I would have liked, but they show signs of being great at times. Don't fret, we'll peak at the right time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaGrad03 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Hey Galen, just checked the Ball State depth chart: 7 of 11 Offensive starters are JRs or SRs 8 of 11 on defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tigrinum Major Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 And they are better than they were last year when those guys were Sophs and Jrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalensGhost 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 And why do you dismiss ALL that I said with that one line about the depth chart? You KNOW having "Jr" next to your name isnt the end all to the story. Why? In all honesty because I don't really care about all that you said. I don't care if Alabama has 22 seniors or 22 freshman starting. I just think the creative excuses are funny. And so are the over-the-top defenses of them. If you have freshmen and sophomores starting it's not because you don't have experienced personnel for those positions. If you did, the depth chart I linked wouldn't have been full of juniors and seniors. Sometimes freshmen and sophomores play because they're better. It happens. That doesn't mean you can go and wrap yourself in the "we're young" flag. When freshmen and sophs are playing ahead of juniors and seniors that doesn't mean you're young. It could mean that some of those highly touted recruiting classes weren't so peachy after all. Tell me this, BG. How many seniors on your team? Unless al.com is lying again it's something like 19, right? Auburn has 20. Yeah, Bama's young. Terribly so. Hey Galen, just checked the Ball State depth chart: 7 of 11 Offensive starters are JRs or SRs 8 of 11 on defense Good thing Bama doesn't play Ball State, then, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaGrad03 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Tell me this Galen...who would you rather have on your team? Demarcus Waldrop, or Tray Blackmon? If a TRUE freshman can start over a SENIOR...what does that say about the senior you had there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaGrad03 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Lets look at those Bama seniors Ramzee Robinson - Ranked 55th at his position (3 stars) Jeff Dukes - Juco transfer (3 stars) Tim Castille - 3 star Forress Rayford - 0 star Walkon. Dressed twice, Utah St in 05 WCU IN 04 LeRon McClain - 4 star highly recruited Darby - 4 star highly recruited Juwan Simpson - 3 star ranked 57th in his class Luke Spaulding - Walkon first year to dress Terrence Jones - 3 star Good LB, has played sparingly this year due to injury Kyle Tatum - 4 star. started on defense JP Adams - Walkon Chris Harris - 44th ranked Weakside DE coming out of high school 3 star Dominic Lee - 4 star highly recruited Jeremy Clark - 4 star highly recruited Bryan Kilpatrick - Walk on scout teamer who has 11 career snaps Danny Barger - Walk on no snaps And our 17th (we only have 17 listed on rolltide.com) is Tyrone Prothro So you got 5 4 stars, 6 3 stars, and 5 Walk Ons And of the 3 stars, they were on the very low end of the 3 stars. This was our 2nd HEAVILY depleted probation class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbo 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Lets look at those Bama seniors Ramzee Robinson - Ranked 55th at his position (3 stars) Jeff Dukes - Juco transfer (3 stars) Tim Castille - 3 star Forress Rayford - 0 star Walkon. Dressed twice, Utah St in 05 WCU IN 04 LeRon McClain - 4 star highly recruited Darby - 4 star highly recruited Juwan Simpson - 3 star ranked 57th in his class Luke Spaulding - Walkon first year to dress Terrence Jones - 3 star Good LB, has played sparingly this year due to injury Kyle Tatum - 4 star. started on defense JP Adams - Walkon Chris Harris - 44th ranked Weakside DE coming out of high school 3 star Dominic Lee - 4 star highly recruited Jeremy Clark - 4 star highly recruited Bryan Kilpatrick - Walk on scout teamer who has 11 career snaps Danny Barger - Walk on no snaps And our 17th (we only have 17 listed on rolltide.com) is Tyrone Prothro So you got 5 4 stars, 6 3 stars, and 5 Walk Ons And of the 3 stars, they were on the very low end of the 3 stars. This was our 2nd HEAVILY depleted probation class. Bg bammer won 10 games last year! Bammer was on the cover of SI and they were back!?????? How many more years do you need to not bring up probation?????? Bg the only way that your team gets on probation is to cheat and last time I checked buying recruits is cheating so I think this argument is tired, yes Bammer's players arent as good as Auburns thats just something you are going to have to live with for a long time! I love what you said after Au lost to Arky that Au was overrated well to remind you again you will see on 11/18/06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalensGhost 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 Lets look at those Bama seniors Ramzee Robinson - Ranked 55th at his position (3 stars) Jeff Dukes - Juco transfer (3 stars) Tim Castille - 3 star Forress Rayford - 0 star Walkon. Dressed twice, Utah St in 05 WCU IN 04 LeRon McClain - 4 star highly recruited Darby - 4 star highly recruited Juwan Simpson - 3 star ranked 57th in his class Luke Spaulding - Walkon first year to dress Terrence Jones - 3 star Good LB, has played sparingly this year due to injury Kyle Tatum - 4 star. started on defense JP Adams - Walkon Chris Harris - 44th ranked Weakside DE coming out of high school 3 star Dominic Lee - 4 star highly recruited Jeremy Clark - 4 star highly recruited Bryan Kilpatrick - Walk on scout teamer who has 11 career snaps Danny Barger - Walk on no snaps And our 17th (we only have 17 listed on rolltide.com) is Tyrone Prothro So you got 5 4 stars, 6 3 stars, and 5 Walk Ons And of the 3 stars, they were on the very low end of the 3 stars. This was our 2nd HEAVILY depleted probation class. Are you REALLY going to pursue this discussion using ridiculous made up "star" rankings from some idiotic recruiting service? How many times have I heard your fans say that the recruiting rankings didn't mean anything because Bammer got the players they wanted? How many times have I listened to your fans explain to me how Bammer absolutely dominated the state in recruiting? Alabama has the same number of seniors (roughly) as Auburn. If you look at the two-deep for each team, Auburn actually plays more underclassmen than Alabama. So who's young? And who's using "we're young" as an ineffective crutch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaGrad03 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Bg bammer won 10 games last year! Bammer was on the cover of SI and they were back!??????How many more years do you need to not bring up probation?????? Bg the only way that your team gets on probation is to cheat and last time I checked buying recruits is cheating so I think this argument is tired, yes Bammer's players arent as good as Auburns thats just something you are going to have to live with for a long time! I love what you said after Au lost to Arky that Au was overrated well to remind you again you will see on 11/18/06 Well we are getting there. Our last 2 classes were full classes with some really good talent on there. But where some people can redshirt guys and bring them along, we are JUST now getting to where we can redshirt anyone. Last year we had seniors who were redshirts from a full class or seniors from a class before we really got hit bad. But to sit here and look at the seniors in that list and say we should be winning 10-11 games this season...and if we dont our coach sucks...is laughable. We are getting there. Everyone knew this year would be a bit of a struggle. I still think we can have a good season. Right now we dont lack talent quite as much as we do leadership. The older guys havent been "THE MAN" long enough to be true leaders. When you graduate guys like Brodie, Meco, Roach, Harper, etc...you lose guys who have been true leaders. Think about this. Before Harper blew out his knee, there was a solid argument for Meco, Mark Anderson, and Roman harper being 1,2, and 3 in defensive rookie of the year in the NFL. Anthony Madison and Charlie Peprah both see playing time on sundays, and Freddie Roach was doing fine until he got a season ending head injury. You dont lose that much ability and not feel it. We knew we would hurt at LB going into the year. We had a good speed rush guy to replace Mark Anderson, but he may be out for the year...he got a major concussion in the 2nd game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalensGhost 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 Bg bammer won 10 games last year! Bammer was on the cover of SI and they were back!??????How many more years do you need to not bring up probation?????? Bg the only way that your team gets on probation is to cheat and last time I checked buying recruits is cheating so I think this argument is tired, yes Bammer's players arent as good as Auburns thats just something you are going to have to live with for a long time! I love what you said after Au lost to Arky that Au was overrated well to remind you again you will see on 11/18/06 Well we are getting there. Our last 2 classes were full classes with some really good talent on there. But where some people can redshirt guys and bring them along, we are JUST now getting to where we can redshirt anyone. Last year we had seniors who were redshirts from a full class or seniors from a class before we really got hit bad. But to sit here and look at the seniors in that list and say we should be winning 10-11 games this season...and if we dont our coach sucks...is laughable. We are getting there. Everyone knew this year would be a bit of a struggle. I still think we can have a good season. Right now we dont lack talent quite as much as we do leadership. The older guys havent been "THE MAN" long enough to be true leaders. When you graduate guys like Brodie, Meco, Roach, Harper, etc...you lose guys who have been true leaders. Think about this. Before Harper blew out his knee, there was a solid argument for Meco, Mark Anderson, and Roman harper being 1,2, and 3 in defensive rookie of the year in the NFL. Anthony Madison and Charlie Peprah both see playing time on sundays, and Freddie Roach was doing fine until he got a season ending head injury. You dont lose that much ability and not feel it. We knew we would hurt at LB going into the year. We had a good speed rush guy to replace Mark Anderson, but he may be out for the year...he got a major concussion in the 2nd game. Carnell, Ronnie, Junior, Carlos, Jason, Jay.... Don't even start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaGrad03 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 How many times have I heard your fans say that the recruiting rankings didn't mean anything because Bammer got the players they wanted? You havent heard ME say it. You may have heard some other Bama fan say it. Alabama has the same number of seniors (roughly) as Auburn. If you look at the two-deep for each team, Auburn actually plays more underclassmen than Alabama. So who's young? And who's using "we're young" as an ineffective crutch? There is no having a rational discussion with you. Ive provided plenty of explanation as to where we stand with our seniors. PLENTY. Im sorry, but there is a bit of accuracy in rivals and scout recruiting. Its never dead on, but if you look at the teams who regularly finish in the top 5 in recruiting...they are close to the top 5 at the end of the year. No small coincidence. But when you look at our 17 seniors...one of them is inactive this year and 5 of them are walk ons who NEVER EVER play...how is that a fair comparison? You sound like a broken record. Ive already explained how a walkon senior isnt the same as playing a 5 star soph. And YOU KNOW its true. But you refuse to respond rationally. So I got no use for your weak argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaGrad03 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Carnell, Ronnie, Junior, Carlos, Jason, Jay.... Don't even start. And you didnt have to backfill with guys recruited while on probation. And you STILL saw dropoff. You replaced Carnell and Ronnie with a heisman trophy candidate. And had the best Oline in the league. Yet you still went from 13-0 to 9-3. And got romped by Wisconsin. Now imagine if you replaced all those guys with walkons or TRUE FRESHMEN who beat out seniors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalensGhost 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 But you refuse to respond rationally. So I got no use for your weak argument. I am responding rationally. You just want to keep your crutch. That's okay. Let me ask you this. If you could trade straight up for any coach in the SEC would you? Would you swap Shula for Nutt, Richt, Miles, Tuberville, Johnson, Fulmer, Meyer or Spurrier? If you give an honest answer you're going to say yes to at minimum six of those. Flip that around. Would the fans of those schools be willing to make the same swap? You'd get a resounding no from eight of eight. But that's okay. You've studied the rivals astrology charts and decided that the excuse for the year is that "you're young" and "its building". Okay. We understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaGrad03 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Galen, you never answered my other question. If I took the 25 BEST players off of AUs team...how many games would they win over the next 2-3 years? You cant compare shula to Tuberville, Richt, Miles, etc. They all have had MUCH different situations over the last 3.5 years. Its still too early to read Shula. I think he has some loyalty issues to some of his coaches. But i think he's a good coach. Considering what he inherited...winning 10 last year is a pretty big deal. If you compare Shula and Tubbys first 3 years, you cant say CTT was a much better coach. Now you want to compare someone who inherited a flat out MESS to CTTs BEST 3 years ever? When he had 10x more talent...and 3-4 years to make all his stupid mistakes? I would NOT trade Shula for Nutt, Johnson, Meyer, or Tubby. I would trade him for Richt, Miles, or Spurrier. But even still. Its too early to tell. Seriously, what record could Shula have over the last 3.5 years that would make YOU think differently of him? In 04, how many games would AU WIn without JCam, Carnell, Ronnie, and all those other guys you lost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saniflush 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 All I want to add to this fight is that I hope Shula contiues his success at UAT for a long time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaGrad03 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 You realize that in his 6 seasons as AU's head coach, CTT has lost at least 3 games in 5 of the 6 seasons? 4 or more in 4 of 6 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalensGhost 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 Galen, you never answered my other question. If I took the 25 BEST players off of AUs team...how many games would they win over the next 2-3 years? You cant compare shula to Tuberville, Richt, Miles, etc. They all have had MUCH different situations over the last 3.5 years. Its still too early to read Shula. I think he has some loyalty issues to some of his coaches. But i think he's a good coach. Considering what he inherited...winning 10 last year is a pretty big deal. If you compare Shula and Tubbys first 3 years, you cant say CTT was a much better coach. Now you want to compare someone who inherited a flat out MESS to CTTs BEST 3 years ever? When he had 10x more talent...and 3-4 years to make all his stupid mistakes? I would NOT trade Shula for Nutt, Johnson, Meyer, or Tubby. I would trade him for Richt, Miles, or Spurrier. But even still. Its too early to tell. Seriously, what record could Shula have over the last 3.5 years that would make YOU think differently of him? In 04, how many games would AU WIn without JCam, Carnell, Ronnie, and all those other guys you lost? BG... why are we having this discussion? If you'd trade Shula for Miles but not for Johnson or Tuberville it's pretty clear you're not thinking rationally. Miles is probably the worst coach of that bunch. Johnson has done an outstanding job at Vandy and Tuberville hasn't done poorly at Auburn. It's safe to say that in terms of talent, Tuberville inherited a worse situation at Auburn than Shula did when he was hired at Bama. Your "25 best" players argument is ridiculous. The NCAA didn't take your "25 BEST" players. They reduced the number of scholarships you could give. That's quantity. It's a decidedly different thing than quality. You could take 25 players off Auburn's team right now and probably not miss a beat. I've heard ad nauseum that bama's "tradition" ensures that only the best of the best will sign there. Are you telling me now this isn't the case? Are you seriously trying to peddle the argument that in the reduced classes, Bama could only get scraps who werent' good enough to play at other schools? Pffffftttt.... That's absurd. You're still clinging to the ten win thing like a great big life preserver. That was a six-win team that got incredibly lucky. Every one not wearing crimson knew it. Four years from now will you still be using that as a justification for excusing Shula? It's okay. You'll still be "young". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaGrad03 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Through his first 3.5 seasons, CTT's record: 25-18 Shula's? 25-19 And i dont care what you say. Shula inherited a tougher situation than CTT. And had more bad luck with key players than CTT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalensGhost 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 Through his first 3.5 seasons, CTT's record: 25-18 Shula's? 25-19 And i dont care what you say. Shula inherited a tougher situation than CTT. And had more bad luck with key players than CTT. If you're not going to care what I say, why should I bother saying it? Sticking your fingers in your ears and going lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalallalalaallalalalala is how you guys got to this point. Since you're researching, though, what were the SEC records during that span? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sogaaufan 27 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Through his first 3.5 seasons, CTT's record: 25-18 Shula's? 25-19 And i dont care what you say. Shula inherited a tougher situation than CTT. And had more bad luck with key players than CTT. In their own way both coaches inherited a mess. Shula may have had probation to deal with, but Coach Fran left his program LOADED with talent. It was a confusing mess there, but he had a lot of talent to work with. Tubs came into a situation where Tater Tot had run the program in the ground. Our talent level when he came in was the pits. Bowden was no recruiter, at all. Tubs had to come in and run several guys off and start over with the pitiful talent that was left. So to say that Shula had it so tough while Tubs fell into a bed of roses is totally off base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaGrad03 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 13-11 13-15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.