Auburninbham

I don't get this "sometimes you have to tear it down to make it better" nonsense. When we parted ways with Gus after the 2020 season, we were *not* in need a complete overhaul. We had a 9-3 regular season(and then lost the bowl game) in 2019 that featured wins over a highly ranked Oregon team as well as Alabama(who was 10-1 going into the Iron Bowl). That was a *good* season. Was it great? No. Was it the kind of season fans talk fondly about 20 years later like 2004 or 2010 or even 2013? No. But newsflash- 9-3 in the sec west with a win over Alabama and a top 10/15 ooc win as well? That's a good year. That's not a year indicative over a complete rebuild. Now let's look at 2020. 6-4. That's an all-sec schedule though, and 3 of the losses were to an all time great national champion team(ok), Georgia on the road and top 5 at end of the year Texas A&M. I'm not saying any loss is acceptable, but when you say "oh they were 6-4" it has to be taken into account that it was an all conference schedule and not only that it was a very tough all conference schedule(with Georgia being the west opponent). But yeah I get it- a 6-4 season on the heels of a 9-3 season is not what we strive for at Auburn. We strive for 2004, 2010, 2013. So given that, the Gus era had gotten stale and a change was good. So I definitely will admit that we fired Gus because it had gotten a bit stale and we needed to make a change to strive for bigger and better things. But that is a LONG way from saying we were in trouble as a program, we had hit rock bottom, we needed a rebuilt, etc. It's even a long way from saying we were in 'bad shape' when Gus left. Because we weren't. We didn't have a Bama/Georgia type loaded roster when Gus exited, but as far as teams who just changed let a coach go, we would have been in better shape than just about any. This was the opposite of a 2019 Arkansas type situation, where a program really was at rock bottom and needed a complete overhaul. Harsin instead took over a program in pretty good shape who over the least two years had won 65% of their regular season games with a *tough* schedule(right up there amongst the toughest in the country over that time). So while I am not anti-Harsin, I also don't get the cheerleading for him at this point when seemingly bad news hits(like Tank leaving). And I definitely don't get this idea that we as Auburn fans are going to be super patient as he takes us on a long painful rebuild while he tears it down the studs and we experience some losing over the next couple years..... I'm sorry....what? If Harsin is still losing in *year 3* of his regime, that would be a serious ******* problem for him. Even next year is a super important year for Harsin to show that he is getting things turned around from a dissapointing first year. Auburn fans aren't going to be super patient with this guy....he didn't inherit a dumpster fire, or anything close to it. Did he inherit a team ready made to win the sec? No, of course not. But he sure as hell didn't inherit a bad situation relative to most jobs. And yeah, it's a little concerning that we're just hearing now how Harsin "has to start tearing it down to the studs". Ummmm....what the hell was the first year? Was that just a freebie or a write-off? Auburn fans are willing to give Harsin a year to right the ship before expecting things to be moving in a very positive direction this year, but let's be very clear- THE CLOCK STARTED LAST YEAR. He doesn't get to come into this year, year 2, and say "ok guys, now we have to start over so don't judge me yet...." No, it doesn't work that way. So all I see to this point is the following: 1) Harsin took over a program that was winning 65% of it's game over the last 2 years(even with an all-sec schedule one of those years), and promptly went 6-6 his first year, and 3 of those victories were ooc garbage games so he was only 3-5 in conference play. 2) Harsin's recruiting in his second class(but really his first class with him at the helm as the first doesn't count) has been....underwhelming to say the least. Yes we won't finish #35 of course and we will likely finish around 20th. But that's not good. This is usually the class(the first 'real class') where a foundational coach leaves a market in recruiting- thats what Saban, Smart, etc did with this class. Instead Harsin has the class backpedaling from Gus' classes. And no I don't want to hear nonsense like "well with those other coaches you're comparing them to classes where signing day was 2 months later".....please, those are excuses. Even with a little earlier signing day it is a reasonable expectation for a coach to have a big splash recruiting class with this 'first real class'. Harsin is going to fail at that. 3) We're losing key players in the transfer portal a year into his tenure. The cheerleaders are saying "bo nix leaving is a good thing because we will get someone like Kedon Slovis who is better anyways". well putting aside the fact that it's debatable whether Slovis is better than Nix going forward, we haven't got Slovis yet. So lets hold off assuming that we are going to get a top portal guy in the first place. And while I don't think losing a rb like Tank is an overwhelming loss, it's definately not a negative to some degree. The general trend of losing key players who weren'tbad apples or bad character guys this far into the tenure is *not good*. 4) He's already fired his OC. *His* OC. I found it funny how a lot of cheerleaders were writing this off as an example that Harsin is 'cleaning house' and 'gotta tear down the studs'. Ummm.....*he* drove those studs in in this case!! It's not like Bobo was forced on Harsin. It was a very attractive job and Harsin could pick whoever he wanted, and after just one year he's had to fire *his* pick. Again....that's objectively not a good thing. And yet some of the cheerleaders on here for Harsin are using this as an example of how he's made yet another hard choice that is required when rebuilding a program. False...and false. He hired the guy so it's not a 'hard choice' but a mistake on his end in he first place; and his job here was not to 'rebuild' our program. We weren't Arkansas 2019 or anything close to that. 5) I'm not seeing what Harsin is really doing this far into his tenure(and again we are at a point where other coaches were showing momentum by this point) to address the acknowledged deficiences we did have coming into his tenure. Practically in this forum has been beating the same drum about our offensive line depth- that Gus didn't recruit it well the last several years and as a result it is a bare bones offensive line room. Ok, that's a fair point. So a year and one season later, what has Harsin done to address this? Where are the solid guys he has found in the portal to slide into OL spots? Who are the stud O-lineman in this class he is bringing in to restock this position of need? I'll acknowledge the fact that Harsin didn't inherit a stacked o-line room when he got here, but hells bells we are a year later in the process.....what has he done/doing in this last key year to get things fixed and/or moving in the right direction there? I feel like all the above are pretty objective observations and questions. I'm not an anti-harsin guy and I certainly hope he gets things turned around from his lackluster first year and gets things moving in the right direction. But I'm certainly not going to sit back and give him a blank check in terms of time to start doing well. He didn't take over a situation where that is warranted imo. And I'm just a nobody/lowly alum who doesn't write the big checks or matter in the end more than any other Auburn grad who is a fan. I do have season tickets but so do tens of thousands of others....but I think most of the big donors feel a similar way, and aren't going to have a tremendous amount of patience either. This is a *big* year coming up for Harsin, and he needs to figure out a way for year 2 to be a lot better on the field than year 1.

1) Bo played great. There is no qb competition lol. And he looks like our starter for a long time going forward. 2) The secondary started playing a *lot* better in the second half. Some of it is that Max Johnson is not a good qb and played a really poor second half. But a lot of that was we just played so much better. Those things were really the story of the game. First Bo, and then the improved secondary play along with Max Johnson not being very good. Couldn't be happier now. Next week is not a winnable game, even at home imo, which means all pressure is off. UGA looks like a truly great team, so *anything* we do against them will be seen as a positive. I think 4/5 opponents this year haven't even mustered an offensive td, so if Bo can put just 1-2 tds on the board(hell even in garbage time) and we lose by less than 25 I'll take it as a positive.... WDE

this is the game where Bo brings us back to win and starts creating his legend

This is Bo's night.....

people on twitter are saying this is johnny manziel circa 2011-2 type stuff.....it's really more Patrick Mahomes.....

The thing is our secondary has played much worse than the score and numbers indicate(and they don't look good). Johnson has missed a number of relatively easy throws and been late on some others as gmac pointed out; without those we'd be down more than 6.

lol you must not be that familar with how these here message board thingies work. That said, I see you have a literal army of posters in here who ridicule your posts and bias daily, so even if you don't want to 'argue'(and btw I don't think that word means what you think it means) there is plenty of entertainment value in reading that alone.

his situation is totally different. Of that 235 he's had a first round stud wideout take dumpoffs and slants for 100+.... give Johnson what NIx is working with and they would have 0 pts lol....

Bo nix is going to single handedly win us this game. He's also putting himself in position, as I posted this week, for another 30 or so starts(and all the auburn records) with a game like this. DD isn't watching this thinking he is getting on the field anytime soon lol....

LOL....he's playing the game of his life. good for him.

Hopefully this is the version of Nix we get for the next 2 and a half seasons!!

lol if you think he is going back to the bench for TJ freaking finley you're smoking something. That was an unreal play....a play of the year type play. The job is his for the future.

QB competition = OVER LOL.....

Nix slicing and dicing....he looks really sharp here

Would like to see Bo back in there the next series. He didn't produce points the first two series but the offense just looked more dangerous, and the missed fg wasn't his fault. We don't need to be flipping back and forth, and as Greg Mac said his mobility and feet with this offensive line is probably the biggest difference between these two guys that matters....

the biggest key, imo, is Bo playing a better game than he usually plays,especially on the road(although honestly Im not sure how much that has to do with it), against name and/or decent opponents. If Bo has a Florida or LSU 2019 type performance, it's going to be tough to overcome that. Because I think we will have a good bit of success running the ball(I mean hell look what UCLA did), but I doubt it's so much success where we don't need anything from Bo and the wideouts. I think Bo is going to have to have more of an @Texas A&M 2020 type of game. If you recall that game Bo didn't have great stats or throw for 250 or anything, but he did make a lot of timely throws especially on third down and his passing was a part of a couple scoring drives that was huge. He'll have to probably do more in this game than he did in that game, but he's capable. I think if we get a Florida/LSU 2019 type performance though from Bo, it's definately going to be an uphill battle to win.

Yes, that's what I think. I can't predict the future, but I think there is at least a good chance of this. He's already been the starter for 2.25 and it's not like we have a Trevor Lawrence/Justin Fields/Brock Berlin/Chris Simms type level or hyped high school recruit that is a sure thing to step into the job. And the transfer portal is always a possibility like we saw with TJ this offseason. But to think that it's "not practical by any definition" that Bo Nix will continue to hold off TJ and then beat out DD and any other new recruit....I just don't see that. It may happen or it may not; time will tell.

No, for the 100th time I said something along the lines of maybe he gets a little better, maybe a little worse, probably about the same. Like most qbs. The general theme I expressed was certainly not anything like what you kept claiming I said. And I note that you've changed it again-earliert it was you saying I said he was going to get more accurate(which then you then said equaled better), and I definately never said that. Maybe you were thinking of some other poster I dunno.... Also, coming from you the "I'm sure you read that many people had problems with what you said....." is sorta funny. That said, that's always a poor argument(to point out that an opinion isn't popular). As for the original point, I think part of the issue was you and others here assumed I think highly of Bo and am a Bo fan. Perhaps you think I believe Bo is a good qb with a lot of upside like the posters you are often getting into back and forths on here with. And since I have mostly lurked before you just assumed that was my line of thought. I can assure you I don't think Bo is a very good qb. He's mediocre at best.

Next two and a half years, which is pretty reasonable and note that it would mean he may not be playing all that great. Probably well enough to keep his job as he has to this point, and I certainly wouldn't say he is playing well. Basically you are thinking either TJ will beat Bo out, or DD will beat Bo out next year. I addressed these possibilities already- we'll know more about TJ after saturday, and regarding DD I don't love the chance that a guy with no experience who is likely a raw passer will come in and beat out a guy who has made almost 40 career starts. Especially with a coaching staff going into year #2 who is going to start to want to win. It may happen, but that's not what I think is most likely. And if one of those doesn't happen.....then yes, Bo is going to rack up a lot of stats just because any qb out on the field with the offensive numbers of today for 50ish starts is going to amass a ton of counting stats. Me saying "bo is likely to hold all the auburn records" doesn't mean I think Bo will be a good qb. That's an important distinction.

A sentinel event in health care can be more than death. A patient can have a serious fall in the hospital and that be a sentinel event. Basically it's just some negative event that is impactful for the patient. We use that term a lot in medicine and I was carrying it over to another area. I realize it's only used in health care settings but I thought the meaning would be clear.

The issue is you're mistaking what some of us view as inevitable and mostly due to a lack of better options as feeling strongly about Bo's play. Or that Bo is a good qb. I was rather clear that I don't think Bo is a good qb. He's mediocre imo if being viewed generously. But I think due to all the things I mentioned(and others interpreted correctly mostly) that he will still have a bunch(and I mean a bunch) of starts left in him for auburn.

You kept saying(again and again) that I said Bo would improve a lot/get more accurate. I never claimed such a thing. It's nice to see you are switching around the lie a bit though now.

Well as I predicted shortly after the game things have settled down and the smart money is on Bo to start Saturday night. And if he plays ok, it's *his* job going forward. I thought TJ may start and then Bo replace him shortly afterwards, but I did say that bo is likely remained entrenched as qb1 going forward. I urged caution seeing all the immediate overreaction right after the game....several posters here and plenty of people on social media acted like this was some sort of sentinel moment that represents definitive change going forward. As I pointed out it represented no such thing. TJ does deserve props for the 98 yard drive, but outside of him becoming a much better qb and convincing CBH that he should be the guy, Bo Nix will likely remain the clear qb1 for Auburn. And going forward, when do we expect that to change? The thing about Nix is that his greatest asset to have secured the starter position for so long isn't so much his play over these years(because on the whole it is has been average at best but more realistically below average outside of creampuff opponents) but the lack of competition. We all knew CGM wasn't going to say "ok cord, you're up" when Bo struggled. Now with TJ it is a *little* different and we can already see in one particular situation he was pulled and TJ stepped up, but I just get the sense that Auburn and CBH do not want TJ to be 'the guy' going forward. So that yet again is the saving grace for Bo. And looking to the future, where/who is that guy who will be the guy that remains a below average to average at best qb from the position?(and not just for a qtr). DD is a true freshman who I don't think is a guy that CBH ultimately envisions as being 'the guy'. Certainly not this year, and likely not next. After all, lets look ahead to the challenge DD would face in wrestling the job away from Bo next year. In Bo you have a guy who will have made something like 36 or whatever starts at that point!! That's a massive amount of playing time and experience. Compared to someone who has never played at this level or taken just a few snaps, that's a lot for DD to overcome vs Bo. Even if he is truly a better qb than Bo, he's not likely to make up for that gap. And the Auburn staff will know that because of the covid year if they go with Bo he still has 2 full years left starting with next year. Then after that, what are seeing on the recruiting trail down the line that we might snag who could possibly challenge Bo his 5th(!) year at Auburn. You'd have another situation where we're expecting a true freshman to compete against someone who has made about 50(!) starts at that point. It's just an uphill battle to unseat Bo. Not because he has played well(he hasn't....far from it) though. I think, barring something unexpected Saturday night(like TJ looking very good and Bo bad), it's going to really settle in after the game and the next week or so that not only is Bo still qb1, but he's going to likely be qb1 for another 30something(!) starts. I know that's a frustrating feeling for many fans(and comforting for others), but I think that's where we are at. The power of incumbency and experience is strong I guess. What does that mean? Well it means Bo is going to hold every career record of value at Auburn by a *wide* margin. Looking at career passing yards, he is about 2400 yards behind Stan White now. So he's likely going to break that early next year, and by the time he is done he will probably be 4-5000 yards ahead of the next guy after the 2023 season. Looking at career touchdowns, Pat Sullivan holds the record at 53. Bo is at 33. He probably won't get there this year, but thats another one I would expect him to pass sometime in the middle of next year. Wouldn't be surprised to see him beat it by +20-30 tds for his career. Looking at career wins, Jason Campbell holds the record with 33. Bo is at 18. If we win 4 more games this year and finish say 7-6 after the bowl(pretty conservative), that takes Bo to 22. So year barring a collapse in Auburn football he will fly by that record too, likely early in the 2023 season. When the story on Bo Nix is written, he will have all the Auburn records. Hopefully there will be a special season in 2022 or 2023 attached to all those career records like there was with Jason Campbell in 2004. If not however and he continues to play like he has for the first half of his career, the story of his success will be more due gaining the starting job in 2019 and then using the powers of incumbency and experience to hold onto that position for what will seem like centuries due to auburn being unable to bring in a special player who can overcome those advantages for him.

Auburn 48 LSU 21 TJ starts and it's clear he isn't the answer. He misses several big throws early and maybe even throws a bad pick. With the score at 21-0 or 21-3 Bo comes in pretty early and *balls*. I mean lights them up. TJ sulks on the bench and Bo and Auburn have a bunch of momentum going into UGA. There is no more qb controversy after this game. If we are going to win this game, it's going to be with Bo Nix(even if he doesn't start). I just can't see TJ beating Auburn. Bo, otoh, has won some big games. He's lost some big games and played badly in them too, but at least I've seen him also play well in games against name sec opponents.

ummm....you guys do realize that a coach and *his* staff are supposed to be on the same team, he picks them, and suppose to work together right? If the assistants aren't gelling with the rest of the staff, the HC, and the team in general that ultimately goes to the coach in putting together the staff. And yes mistakes are sometimes made and fits are bad, but usually not 4 games in..... But just seeing you guys say things like "bobo and mason are on notice" is silly. You guys are talking like these are longstanding DMV employees and a new boss has come in to hold them accountable lol....these are 'his' guys and everyone has an interest for things to work smoothly. When it doesn't, it doesn't reflect well on anyone. Now maybe this had to be done.....if so, let's just hope it turns out to be an rare mistake/misjudgement from Harsin.