Roof's comment on DBs turning to look at the ball

[kfowler8 0]

Phillip Marshall from AUC asked Roof what many of us have been wondering. What is the pass technique that is taught to DBs that results in him not looking back at the ball? Here's PM's summary of Roof's response. I think it's pretty interesting.

"On man-to-man coverage, when the DB is "in phase," which means up hip to hip with the receiver, he is supposed to read his eyes. When the ball is coming, he is supposed to keep contact with the receiver and look back for the ball. If he is not in position to do that, he is supposed to play through the receivers hands when the ball arrives and strip it. At least, that's how I understood it."

[Weegle777 78]

That kind of technique will assure a DB that they will not get a spot on an NFL roster.

[Rickys Rants 0]

I guess that means our DBs are NEVER "in a position to do that".........

[Weegle777 78]

The problem with teaching that technique is how incredibly precise you have to be as a DB. You better not have ANY contact with the WR or you will be flagged (unless you are a bammer DB of course then you can rip a WR's jersey off and not get flagged) . I can almost guarantee you that officials know that we play this way and have their hands on their flags just waiting for any contact. I'm not a coach, but just watching corners in the NFL play, you can see how much easier it is too look back and make a play on the ball.

[LP 23 0]

That kind of technique will assure a DB that they will not get a spot on an NFL roster.

AMEN!!!!

[LP 23 0]

I guess that means our DBs are NEVER "in a position to do that".........

AMEN!!!!

[BJH3324 3]

I hate to defend TR but if that is what he is teaching he is spot on from a tech prospective. My question is why are the DBs not executing what they are taught? However I believe his tech for tackling of the first man to the ball try to kill the ballcarrier is not good. The first guy should make solid contact and the pursuit should deliver the knockout blow.

I know we are undefeated so some of the def pains are hidden by the  intoxication of winning, however with the talent TR has on his side of the ball he is simply not getting it done. We can not expect for CN to put up unreal numbers every week to cover the def. I think we need to start looking for a new DB coach and TR needs to shape up or get ready to pack.

[kfowler8 0]

I, personally, have no idea if it's good technique or not. Roof, Chizik, and company know far more than I do.

If I were taking a wild guess, I get the impression our DBs are thinking about what they're doing a little too much vs. reacting. Then again, I know nothing about playing DB.

[au03cobrafan 0]

I hate to defend TR but if that is what he is teaching he is spot on from a tech prospective. My question is why are the DBs not executing what they are taught? However I believe his tech for tackling of the first man to the ball try to kill the ballcarrier is not good. The first guy should make solid contact and the pursuit should deliver the knockout blow.

I know we are undefeated so some of the def pains are hidden by the  intoxication of winning, however with the talent TR has on his side of the ball he is simply not getting it done. We can not expect for CN to put up unreal numbers every week to cover the def. I think we need to start looking for a new DB coach and TR needs to shape up or get ready to pack.

+10000000000

[wellsheit 0]

My only problem with this technique, as said, is how many PI flags you end up getting as a result.  3rd and long is always a pass play, and we continue alot of drives with the PI calls.

ALAS, TR and CGC know more about defense than I ever will. 

[bird36 5]

Honest question,    

Did the Auburn DBs turn and look for the ball when CGC was the defensive coordinator??

It is hard to get interceptions when you don't play the ball.

[AUApostle 7,663]

The problem with teaching that technique is how incredibly precise you have to be as a DB. You better not have ANY contact with the WR or you will be flagged (unless you are a bammer DB of course then you can rip a WR's jersey off and not get flagged) . I can almost guarantee you that officials know that we play this way and have their hands on their flags just waiting for any contact. I'm not a coach, but just watching corners in the NFL play, you can see how much easier it is too look back and make a play on the ball.

That is the technique that is predominately taught at the college level.  Roof is not making this stuff up.

[AUApostle 7,663]

My only problem with this technique, as said, is how many PI flags you end up getting as a result.  3rd and long is always a pass play, and we continue alot of drives with the PI calls.

ALAS, TR and CGC know more about defense than I ever will. 

It's the technique that is taught at almost every school.  The problem is that the DB is often too out of position to turn and play the ball.  Looking for the ball at those moments will only result in an easier catch for the WR.  Just being near the WR is not enough to be able to turn and play the ball.

[bigbird 60,580]

Hmmmm

When running with a WR you stay in their hip pocket, but unlike the WR who is tracking the ball like a punt returner the DB has to watch the body language of the WR.  One can't rely on the eyes of a WR because they are taught to look DBs off like point guards do in basketball.  So you have to combine that with their hands to anticipate when they might be thrown to.  The problem is, as soon as the DB turns his head, he has to locate the ball...in mid-flight...while running full spead...without losing position. That is much more difficult than it sounds.  The other technique, that is obviously the way the coaches are teaching our DBs to play, is "through the basket".  Through the basket refers to getting your hands/arms in between the junction of the WR's arms, hand, and chest.    Although this "basket" technique doesn't lend itself to many INTs, it does increase pass break-ups and limits separation, and when defending against big plays seperation between WRs and DBs is one of the biggest factors. 

WHAT?? Coaches teaching DBs to NOT turn around? This is ridiculous, IMO. Why would coaches teach defenders to NOT turn around and look for the ball? 1. The defender would never see the ball and therefore would never be able to make a play on it. 2. Defenders would get flagged every single time if they didn't turn their heads and look for the ball. This belief doesn't make any sense.

ridiculous or not, its how players are taught. 

1. The defender would never see the ball and therefore would never be able to make a play on it.

They are taught to play the player.  As a DB, there are certain things you get from the WR.  When the WR starts to chop their feet, you know they're about to change direction.  When their arms start to rise, you know the ball is coming.  You know when thier eyes widen the ball is there. Being able to read these thing allow the DB to be there to make a play on it.

2. Defenders would get flagged every single time if they didn't turn their heads and look for the ball.

You don't have to turn your head to avoid a PI.  You just can't stop the WR's from making a play for the ball by altering their body position(e.g. running into them, grabbing their pads/jersey)

[AUnCullman 601]

"At least, that's how I understood it."  

Did our DC really say that??? IF so, thats scary.  

Sounds like he is not the one teaching this technique, or either he's distancing himself from the situation at hand.          

[StatTiger 3,188]

"At least, that's how I understood it."  

Did our DC really say that??? IF so, thats scary.  

Sounds like he is not the one teaching this technique, or either he's distancing himself from the situation at hand.          

He's quoting Phillip Marshall not Coach Ted Roof.

[AUnCullman 601]

"At least, that's how I understood it."  

Did our DC really say that??? IF so, thats scary.  

Sounds like he is not the one teaching this technique, or either he's distancing himself from the situation at hand.          

He's quoting Phillip Marshall not Coach Ted Roof.

Ok, well, it was in the quotation marks like Roof had said it. That is why I posted that. I hope you are correct sir.

[AUFan1 0]

My problem with all of this, is that what they are teaching is not natural. You can go out to any playground or back yard in America and you will see kids of all ages turn their head around and look for the ball... It's the natural thing to do. This reading their eyes garbage and playing through the ball is fixing what isn't broke. What is so hard about turning your head when the guy you are running with turns his head? Forget reading the guy's eyes, when he turns his big head around, turn yours around, because 99 and a half times out of 100, you will be able to see the ball. If you can't see the ball, you cant make a play.

How in the hell did something so simple become so difficult? :banghead: :banghead:

[Lint 0]

How in the hell did something so simple become so difficult?

Corner is one of the hardest positions on the field.  I've never been a defensive coach and the defensive staff has forgotten more about coaching than I'll ever know, but we have obvious deficiencies in the secondary.  Is it talent? Coaching?  usually, the answer lies somewhere in between.  The players are not playing at a level that the coaches need and the coaches are trying to coach techniques that the players are not able to understand or master..So continue to coach the techniques or hope that some players 'get it'?

[Weegle777 78]

You all make good points (except Bird...)   JK Bird! But unless a WR runs a double move route, most of the time the first break he makes will tell a DB the route because there isn't enough time usually for a QB to sit and hold the ball. If you watch NFL DB's, they will usually backpeddle, hipturn at the break of the WR, run and look for the ball, because by the time they turn their hips and start running with the WR, the ball is in the air. Playing DB is probably the hardest position on the field to play aside from QB.

[UltraSwagnus 1]

That kind of technique will assure a DB that they will not get a spot on an NFL roster.

Jerraud Powers does this and starts for the Colts.

[UltraSwagnus 1]

The problem with teaching that technique is how incredibly precise you have to be as a DB. You better not have ANY contact with the WR or you will be flagged (unless you are a bammer DB of course then you can rip a WR's jersey off and not get flagged) . I can almost guarantee you that officials know that we play this way and have their hands on their flags just waiting for any contact. I'm not a coach, but just watching corners in the NFL play, you can see how much easier it is too look back and make a play on the ball.

as a former defensive back its MUCH harder to look back for the ball

consider you will get thrown at 15-20% of the snaps a game, unless you know the receivers route this is an easy way to get burned

[AUFan1 0]

How in the hell did something so simple become so difficult?

Corner is one of the hardest positions on the field.  I've never been a defensive coach and the defensive staff has forgotten more about coaching than I'll ever know, but we have obvious deficiencies in the secondary.   Is it talent? Coaching?  usually, the answer lies somewhere in between.  The players are not playing at a level that the coaches need and the coaches are trying to coach techniques that the players are not able to understand or master..So continue to coach the techniques or hope that some players 'get it'?

I was asking how turning your head around became some difficult. It's not a talent issue. I guarantee you that you can go to the park right now, and ask 10 kids to cover 10 other kids while you threw them long passes. They would all instinctively turn their heads and look for the ball.

[Weegle777 78]

That kind of technique will assure a DB that they will not get a spot on an NFL roster.

Jerraud Powers does this and starts for the Colts.

The next time the Colts play I will watch Powers and determine if you are correct, and if you are then I will admit that I am wrong.

[bigbird 60,580]

My problem with all of this, is that what they are teaching is not natural. You can go out to any playground or back yard in America and you will see kids of all ages turn their head around and look for the ball... It's the natural thing to do. This reading their eyes garbage and playing through the ball is fixing what isn't broke. What is so hard about turning your head when the guy you are running with turns his head? Forget reading the guy's eyes, when he turns his big head around, turn yours around, because 99 and a half times out of 100, you will be able to see the ball. If you can't see the ball, you cant make a play.

How in the hell did something so simple become so difficult? :banghead: :banghead:

The WRs track the balls like punt returners, so they know where the ball is.  When a DB turns his head he naturally slows down.  He then has to locate the ball.  Within those few seconds the WR has gotten about two feet separation from you...which is more than enough to catch the ball.  BTW WRs have many tricks they use to get away from DBs.  One such trick is running the route about 3/4 speed, looking back, and when the DB looks back the WR takes off at full speed creating a huge amount of space.  Plays like this are routinely passed off as blown coverage.