alexava 6,973 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 let me get this straight. the world of science has learned or is trying to learn and better understand something that is a real problem in the world. this information could possibly be used to prevent children from terrible acts of violence sometimes death. it might be possible to treat these people and prevent them from harming children. and the right wingers are mad? did i miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,122 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 How many times have we conservatives been called looney for suggesting that this kind of thing was coming down the pike? The only surprise is that it came now. I thought it would take a few more years yet. This is only the first step to making it ok. http://www.nytimes.c...crime.html?_r=0 They're right. Being a pedophile in and of itself is not a crime. Acting on those urges, however, is a crime. Isn't this the same path that homsexuality took over the decades ? Criminal > behavioral disorder > personal choice > acceptance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,147 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 How many times have we conservatives been called looney for suggesting that this kind of thing was coming down the pike? The only surprise is that it came now. I thought it would take a few more years yet. This is only the first step to making it ok. http://www.nytimes.c...crime.html?_r=0 They're right. Being a pedophile in and of itself is not a crime. Acting on those urges, however, is a crime. Isn't this the same path that homsexuality took over the decades ? Criminal > behavioral disorder > personal choice > acceptance. Personal choice? I don't believe anyone chooses to be gay, and there's no way in hell you could ever convince me that any sane individual would choose to be a pedophile. There's also no comparison between the two. A homosexual relationship takes place between two consenting adults. In a relationship between an adult and child, the child is incapable of informed consent, and years of study reveal that the relationship is very often psychologically, not to mention physically, harmful to the child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietfan 233 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Personal choice? I don't believe anyone chooses to be gay, and there's no way in hell you could ever convince me that any sane individual would choose to be a pedophile. There's also no comparison between the two. A homosexual relationship takes place between two consenting adults. In a relationship between an adult and child, the child is incapable of informed consent, and years of study reveal that the relationship is very often psychologically, not to mention physically, harmful to the child. ^^^^^Exactly! On all points! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 How many times have we conservatives been called looney for suggesting that this kind of thing was coming down the pike? The only surprise is that it came now. I thought it would take a few more years yet. This is only the first step to making it ok. http://www.nytimes.c...crime.html?_r=0 They're right. Being a pedophile in and of itself is not a crime. Acting on those urges, however, is a crime. Isn't this the same path that homsexuality took over the decades ? Criminal > behavioral disorder > personal choice > acceptance. Personal choice? I don't believe anyone chooses to be gay, and there's no way in hell you could ever convince me that any sane individual would choose to be a pedophile. There's also no comparison between the two. A homosexual relationship takes place between two consenting adults. In a relationship between an adult and child, the child is incapable of informed consent, and years of study reveal that the relationship is very often psychologically, not to mention physically, harmful to the child. those who claim it is a personal choice are fighting homosexual urges every day and choose not to act on them or how else would they know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,371 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 How many times have we conservatives been called looney for suggesting that this kind of thing was coming down the pike? The only surprise is that it came now. I thought it would take a few more years yet. This is only the first step to making it ok. http://www.nytimes.c...crime.html?_r=0 They're right. Being a pedophile in and of itself is not a crime. Acting on those urges, however, is a crime. Isn't this the same path that homsexuality took over the decades ? Criminal > behavioral disorder > personal choice > acceptance. Personal choice? I don't believe anyone chooses to be gay, and there's no way in hell you could ever convince me that any sane individual would choose to be a pedophile. There's also no comparison between the two. A homosexual relationship takes place between two consenting adults. In a relationship between an adult and child, the child is incapable of informed consent, and years of study reveal that the relationship is very often psychologically, not to mention physically, harmful to the child. those who claim it is a personal choice are fighting homosexual urges every day and choose not to act on them or how else would they know that. What? You mean you don't remember choosing heterosexuality over homosexuality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassc22 0 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I can't even read that. How about organizing it into paragraphs? I'll take another shot. Walls 'o text have been popular today. It's hard to organize your writing when you can't organize your thoughts. Luckily I went through it, and he is right. You and Ben are actually the ones who decided to use preconceived stereotypes on CT and I because we don't automatically agree with the point. Nowhere did either of us ever claim you two were this type of liberal. This type of liberal appears to be mainstream. Not everyone is this way, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease and the attention. Perhaps you and Homer and those who think as you do should be louder on the national stage. Your views are not well represented. You are the first reasonable libs I have had come across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassc22 0 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Also I asked you to take this point by point and tell me where CT was wrong in what he said. Neither of you did, so I will. My whole point with this is that this is just the first step along the way to normalizing these people, not just declaring that they are not criminals for having the thoughts but that the act itself is ok and should not only be tolerated but even encouraged. What part of what he said here is not true? Forget whether you believe that homosexuality is against Christian principles or whatever. Deny that it was considered wrong by the majority(and still by many, lots of those who are Christian). Once upon a time teaching children that two mommies or two daddies was normal would have been enough to have you run out of town on a rail in many places. Lets not get into the childrens books that are now written to encourage homosexuality. Now you are even being forced to accept that it is ok whether you believe it or not. Just today it came out that two ministers in Idaho are being sued because they refused to marry two men. The city is using the excuse that their wedding chapel is a business. The problem is they perform the weddings at the business. So tell me how this isn't the first step to forcing churches to recognize same sex marriage? Polygamy and incest are also on the agenda. Denying these people the "right" to do this will be discrimination. People opposed to it will be called pedophobes or some such something.There was a television show recently that sort of hinted at incest. Open marriage is considered to be enlightened. Swingers have more fun. The opening salvos have been fired and the war on traditional culture is well underway. Ok lets go? Where is he wrong? These reality shows, even the fictional ones like Big Love desensitize people to what might be wrong about plural marriage :http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/04/legalize_polygamy_marriage_equality_for_all.html Even liberals have a problem telling us why incest is that much different from homosexual arguments http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/ballot_box/2003/04/incest_repellent.2.html NAMBLA calls itself a civil rights organization. The Civil right to "man boy love"? Where is that a civil right? My biggest problem with the Civil Rights argument is that African Americans (I hate that designation...we are all Americans, the preceding word is just dumb and separates us more) had a legitimate beef. The color of their skin was used against them and the color of their skin was well beyond their control. Is it genetically beyond the control of someone to be attracted to children? Until thats proven its certainly not a civil right, and even then calling it a civil right would be extremely problematic. To you this all may seem crazy...but if so..then give me reasons. Don't just assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,147 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Luckily I went through it, and he is right. You and Ben are actually the ones who decided to use preconceived stereotypes on CT and I because we don't automatically agree with the point. Point out where I stereotyped someone in this thread, if you would. Unless, of course, you're referring to my notion that you could look beyond your biases. I had thought you objective. Opinionated, yes, but willing to look beyond your biases. Nowhere did either of us ever claim you two were this type of liberal. I am one of those "militants" working to have homosexuality "normalized" into our culture. He said (and you agreed): Every sexual perversion known to man has people that want to claim it's all ok and actually quite normal. The militants on the left have pretty much succeeded in getting homosexuality normalized into the culture. Now it's time to move on to the next one and start the process all over again. That's one thing about liberals and the left. They can never be appeased and they will never stop pushing. Taxes can never be high enough to suit them. No moral perversion is beneath them. And you have the gall to accuse me of stereotyping. Does your definition of "militant" include feminist, anti-racist, "social justice warriors" like myself? This type of liberal appears to be mainstream. Not everyone is this way, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease and the attention. Perhaps you and Homer and those who think as you do should be louder on the national stage. Your views are not well represented. And that's bunk. You're focusing on the nuts. I don't imagine a bunch of Rush Limbaugh spouting loons when I picture conservatives. You are the first reasonable libs I have had come across. Try going out to meet a few. There are far more of us than you realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,147 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 What part of what he said here is not true? Forget whether you believe that homosexuality is against Christian principles or whatever. Deny that it was considered wrong by the majority(and still by many, lots of those who are Christian). Once upon a time teaching children that two mommies or two daddies was normal would have been enough to have you run out of town on a rail in many places. Lets not get into the childrens books that are now written to encourage homosexuality. Now you are even being forced to accept that it is ok whether you believe it or not. Just today it came out that two ministers in Idaho are being sued because they refused to marry two men. The city is using the excuse that their wedding chapel is a business. The problem is they perform the weddings at the business. So tell me how this isn't the first step to forcing churches to recognize same sex marriage? For one, he said "criminals for having these thoughts." Are we prosecuting thoughtcrime? For another, familiarize yourself with the slippery slope fallacy. Ok lets go? Where is he wrong? These reality shows, even the fictional ones like Big Love desensitize people to what might be wrong about plural marriage :http://www.slate.com...ty_for_all.html Even liberals have a problem telling us why incest is that much different from homosexual arguments http://www.slate.com...epellent.2.html That's because they're not. Informed consent is a pivotal point of the pedophilia argument. Incest and polygamy are grey areas. NAMBLA calls itself a civil rights organization. The Civil right to "man boy love"? Where is that a civil right? My biggest problem with the Civil Rights argument is that African Americans (I hate that designation...we are all Americans, the preceding word is just dumb and separates us more) had a legitimate beef. The color of their skin was used against them and the color of their skin was well beyond their control. Is it genetically beyond the control of someone to be attracted to children? Until thats proven its certainly not a civil right, and even then calling it a civil right would be extremely problematic. To you this all may seem crazy...but if so..then give me reasons. Don't just assume. NAMBLA can call themselves whatever they want, doesn't make it true. They don't (and never will) have the right to harm children or trample on their rights. And yes. It is beyond the control of a pedophile to be attracted to children. Just like it's beyond yours or mine to be attracted to the opposite sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,122 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Isn't this the same path that homsexuality took over the decades ? Criminal > behavioral disorder > personal choice > acceptance. Personal choice? I don't believe anyone chooses to be gay, and there's no way in hell you could ever convince me that any sane individual would choose to be a pedophile. There's also no comparison between the two. A homosexual relationship takes place between two consenting adults. In a relationship between an adult and child, the child is incapable of informed consent, and years of study reveal that the relationship is very often psychologically, not to mention physically, harmful to the child. I was speaking to how the " professionals " have changed their opinions on such matters, over time. Changing the tune of pedophilia from a criminal act to one of a ' disorder ' seems like the same path, is all . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,147 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Isn't this the same path that homsexuality took over the decades ? Criminal > behavioral disorder > personal choice > acceptance. Personal choice? I don't believe anyone chooses to be gay, and there's no way in hell you could ever convince me that any sane individual would choose to be a pedophile. There's also no comparison between the two. A homosexual relationship takes place between two consenting adults. In a relationship between an adult and child, the child is incapable of informed consent, and years of study reveal that the relationship is very often psychologically, not to mention physically, harmful to the child. I was speaking to how the " professionals " have changed their opinions on such matters, over time. Changing the tune of pedophilia from a criminal act to one of a ' disorder ' seems like the same path, is all . I think you're conflating child sexual assault with pedophilia. Pedophilia itself is not a crime, nor should it be. That would be prosecuting thoughtcrime. Compare it to fantasizing a rape as opposed to perpetrating one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,122 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 those who claim it is a personal choice are fighting homosexual urges every day and choose not to act on them or how else would they know that. Only, that wasn't MY claim. Just so you know. I hate the term ' life style choice ' , too, as if anyone CHOSE to be gay, or straight. Ask a person if they remember the day THEY chose their sexuality, and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,122 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I think you're conflating child sexual assault with pedophilia. Pedophilia itself is not a crime, nor should it be. That would be prosecuting thoughtcrime. Compare it to fantasizing a rape as opposed to perpetrating one. No, i'm not. I'm just comparing how the two have seemingly taken similar paths. BEING gay use to be a crime, whether one acted on it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The left loves splitting hairs about "not prosecuting thought crime" as long as it isn't about proselytizing Christian precepts. "Thats fair game" ...just ask the Mayor of Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,147 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 No, i'm not. I'm just comparing how the two have seemingly taken similar paths. BEING gay use to be a crime, whether one acted on it or not. Not doubting you, but I've never heard of someone arrested for being gay. Maybe under accusation of performing a homosexual act, but not for being gay in and of itself. The charge of buggery, for example. Do you have any examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,147 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The left loves splitting hairs about "not prosecuting thought crime" as long as it isn't about proselytizing Christian precepts. "Thats fair game" ...just ask the Mayor of Houston. Poor persecuted you. You do know I'm a follower of Christ, correct? And I thought I was pretty clear about my opposition to the city's actions in that thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I think you're conflating child sexual assault with pedophilia. Pedophilia itself is not a crime, nor should it be. That would be prosecuting thoughtcrime. Compare it to fantasizing a rape as opposed to perpetrating one. No, i'm not. I'm just comparing how the two have seemingly taken similar paths. BEING gay use to be a crime, whether one acted on it or not. similarities are noted. Differences as well. My point is learning and understanding causes or tendencies to pedophilia is not a path to allowing child abuse. It is a path to treatment and prevention. It happens way too much. Any efforts to stop it should be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,122 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 No, i'm not. I'm just comparing how the two have seemingly taken similar paths. BEING gay use to be a crime, whether one acted on it or not. Not doubting you, but I've never heard of someone arrested for being gay. Maybe under accusation of performing a homosexual act, but not for being gay in and of itself. The charge of buggery, for example. Do you have any examples? Not off hand, but I seem to recall some being arrested for the crime of witchcraft, and that didn't turn out too well either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,147 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Not off hand, but I seem to recall some being arrested for the crime of witchcraft, and that didn't turn out too well either. I don't think that's a good comparison. You might be right about the homosexuality, though. I'll hunt around. I was hunting through the antiquated English common law, but didn't find anything, Funny, though. I always think of that Simpson's Halloween special where Marge was a witch. Lisa: Wait! Does not the Bible say "judge not lest ye be judged?" Chief Wiggum: The Bible says a lot of things. Push her, Lou! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,122 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Funny, though. I always think of that Simpson's Halloween special where Marge was a witch. Lisa: Wait! Does not the Bible say "judge not lest ye be judged?" Chief Wiggum: The Bible says a lot of things. Push her, Lou! Lotta wisdom nuggets in that show, to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietfan 233 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I think you're conflating child sexual assault with pedophilia. Pedophilia itself is not a crime, nor should it be. That would be prosecuting thoughtcrime. Compare it to fantasizing a rape as opposed to perpetrating one. No, i'm not. I'm just comparing how the two have seemingly taken similar paths. BEING gay use to be a crime, whether one acted on it or not. Seems to me that whether something used to be a crime or not is irrelevant. Slavery used to be legal, helping a slave escape or run away was a crime. Production, transportation, or sale of alcohol was illegal for a short time in our history. Attempting to vote as a woman used to be a crime. Witchcraft was once a crime. Acts of sodomy between a married man and woman used to be illegal. Promoting/advertising birth control was once illegal. Being a Protestant was once a crime that could get one burned at the stake. Inter-racial marriage was once illegal in many states. Polygamy was once legal in many places, and still is in some cultures/countries. I accept that some some persons of faith believe in absolutes and oppose the idea of "moral relativism" or the idea that ethics may change over the course of history. They are entitled to that religious belief, although the history of the human species suggests otherwise. But as for pedophilia: Committing acts of pedophilia is a crime, having pedophilic desires is a disorder. Prosecute the crime, try to treat the disorder in whatever way possible in order to prevent the crime. Homosexual acts with someone unable to give informed consent are illegal, but so are heterosexual acts under the same circumstances. Children and animals can never give informed consent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Those who believe in absolutes, do not understand sin, and do not understand how Grace works. It is at its worst in the majority of churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastesLikeChicken 0 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 not good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,371 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 pedophiles go to hell. I don't care about homos, those are two consenting adults. but abusing an innocent, smaller, younger, weaker, innocent child is the sins and crimes of all crimes. I hate anyone who does such violence and savagery. Take on an adult you sick f**** I think that's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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